StonedCL

iTrader: (1)

I am in the car buesness (work for ramsey infiniti in NJ so let me know if u guys need anew g or m) and am in the process of selling me 2001 CL-S even though I just payed over 3K for a new tranny cuz now its leaking oil from the rear main seal. I was doing my math on the car and all the payments, interest, maintence ,trannies, coil packs, brakes, mods and came out to about $50,000 in almost 10 years (it will be 10 in march) for a $30,000 car...follow me...
Now the TSX is costing me $364 x 36months = $13,150 + $2000 down payment so total of $15,150 for 3 years..So that is a little over 5K a year for a $30,000 car.. So if i started leasing instead of buying I would have been on my 4th NEW car and spent a total of the same money I spent now and am driving a 10 year old car the is worth less then I payed to have the tranny rebuilt... Sounds like a no brainer for me...
Also I dunno how many time I seen people finance a car even at 0% and they come in 3 years later and they are upsidown..
If u financed a TSX at 0% with the same amount down as the lease ($2000) the payement on the finance would be AT LEAST $150 more a month and thats a 0% for 60 months which Acura almost never does so if you went to trade that car in after 3 years your payment was $150 more the past 3 years and u most likely will be upsidown or break even if you are lucky..
Lemme know what you guys think of all this..

OperationDarkie

iTrader: (1)

Nothing isn't the same as actually owning the car versus still having to pay for another car.

Honestly I wouldn't buy anything new but that is just me, I bought my CL back on 05 and paid it off with over time and it only cost me 13k, and I haven't put more than 3 grand into the car, and that counts wheels exhaust and a intake.

I just prefer actually owning the car versus paying for a car for 5 years then getting another one, because I hate car payments.

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

man really it all depends on what you like... new cars or a car you are familiar with and love.

I don't think there is a right answer.

For you obv looking back, it is easy to say I could have should have. But assuming you didn't have a lemon (no offense seriously) then ask yourself if you would be posing the same question? Probably not.

It's unfortunate that you have had such trouble with the CL but if I were to state my opinion, I'd say no lease for me.

For one you are limited to what you can do to the car if you want to mod it. Then u gotta worry about warranty claims. IE. you see a problem and they don't.. or it's not classified as needed to be fix/replaced so they do nothing. Then you gotta worry about drive too many miles, which is the biggest bitch EVER.. it's a CAR who the fuck should be able to tell you how far you can take it?

Those predicaments are a pain in the ass and would make me want to get rid of the car right there.

And what if you change ur mind and want to keep the car, or don't like other cars available in ur price range? what if something happens to ur job or health and can no longer afford the monthly payment?

I dunno about you but that's too many what if's.

I'd rather take my chances, do some HMW and buy something that you know and is proven to be reliable on all fronts.

You got many limitations with the lease method. Granted the reliability of the car is almost guaranteed but does that outweigh all the other factors?

I'd have to say no

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

and sure little things are going to go on any 4,5,6,7 year old car, but that's where the fun is. where you feel like you've accomplished something and saved some money and had a productive day.

I love that. when things go, I like the challenge.

OperationDarkie

iTrader: (1)

I just like not having to pay a car payment, saves me moolah

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

I won't buy a new car, & I won't lease a new car. I will buy a 1 year or more used car.
Makes no sense to buy new cause as soon as you take delivery you are upside down.
And since this isn't a CL specific topic it's getting moved to Car talk.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

This is what we do. Save a ton, car is barely used and you usually get a better warranty then if buying new.

Only time I would ever consider leasing a car is through our business. Otherwise, pre-owned car in cash.

No car payment and owning the asset FTW

TL_Captain

exactly what i've been thinking. i couldn't agree more. i don't drive much, so lease should be better for me too.

TheMirror

I'm not sure you can use your CL-S as a good control case. For instance, you should eliminate any $$$ spent on mods because with leased cars you likely wouldn't do that.

Second, most cars do not eat transmissions every 70K miles like that particular model so throw the cost of at least one of those out for a more accurate assessment.

With those two costs removed, the leasing option probably doesn't look as good.

F23A4

Thoughtful analysis by the OP. I've been leasing since 2002 and have few regrets in doing so. To wit (and with the exception of our old 05 Murano), I usually get bored with the ride within three years and want something newer and nicer (and usually more expensive)....which is why we leased our new 09 MDX this week.

That said, the last car we purchased new was our current 2000 Nissan Quest, which we still own. It is nice to know that it's paid for but, with its second tranny showing signs of Alzheimers I have to really debate whether or not its worth paying $2k for a repair job in a vehicle that's worth about $3k.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

I drive alot and I'd like to modify my cars, so leasing is out of question for me.

And, I don't know why but leasing feels like renting a car for a long period of time.

bgsm1th

I will never buy new or lease...

Having a car salesman tell me leasing is the way to go is reason enough for me to avoid it.

If a lease is a biz expense, that's another story, but I like having something to show for my $$ after three years.

I've had my CL for 6 years now putting 100k miles on it (currently at 160k miles), costing me a total of $19,000 between cost of car, interest paid and maintenance (a warranty covered tranny, rotors, pads and a power steering pump - all installed myself - that is all it's ever needed).

I'm very comfortable with the value my CL has presented me.

StonedCL

iTrader: (1)

I always always oppsed to leasing but after being in the buesness for 4 years my opinions have changed greatly.. I worked for GM for a few years and Leasing killed them 4-5 years back you could have got a $40K envoy for no money down $350 a month and those cars where comming back and the buyout was 26-27K and they where only worth 17-20K tops so GM losses about 10K for every suv that has came off lease in the last 2-3 years and that is whay GM no longer leases anything, so imagine the people that bought those cars they where upsidown 10K the moment they drove it off the lot..
Alot of the lease deals out there are not that good like they used to anymore cuz alot of banks got BURNED on leases but when you can lease a 30K car for $364 with 2000 total out of pocket (btw my math was off buy 364 cuz the 2k included first month payment) then there is no way you cant take that.. All you people that say you like to buy cars cuz you like to own then, how many of you guys have the title in hand? You dont own the car untill your last payment is made! How many people hold there cars for 5 years till there done paying them off, I bet its about 30% and 70% either sell,trade, or total them before the 5 years is up and the car is payed off!

StonedCL

iTrader: (1)

And at a upscale dealed like MB,BMW, Lexus , infinti, or Acura I bet 75% of new cars are leased, SO 3 out of 4 new car buyers CAN'T be wrong, and all u guys say I would never buy a new car, If the world was full of you guys then there would not be ANY used cars for u to buy!

bgsm1th

Just because 3 of every 4 luxury drivers are lazy, don't know any better, or can't afford to actually buy what they want to drive doesn't mean they are right (or wrong for that matter...)

...and lucky for us used buyers there is a never-ending string of people who are actually willing to take that depreciation hit for us - be it buying or leasing. Tell them thanks for me as you rake them over the coals!

StonedCL

iTrader: (1)

you look at any 1-2 year old infinity acura or lexus they do not deprecate that much, yeah after 5-6 years when the warrenty is up then they took a hit , BUT cars that are 1-2 years old there is not that much savings. you can get new car interest for 60 months anywhere from 0% to 2.9 for 60 months and 6.9-9.9% on used cars with great /good credit.. Most of the time the money your saving on the car being 1-2 years old gets eaten up by the extra interest rate.. I on the other hand DO NOT want to own anouther car that is NOT under warrenty and I would not trust a 3rd party warrenty company...

YeuEmMaiMai

i buy used as it is definately cheaper than new. leasing = milage restrictions and getting dinged for normal wear and tear on the car......

TheMirror

Or that they use the lease payments as writeoffs somehow.

Moog-Type-S

Ever hear the phrase "there is a sucker born every minute?"

That logic worked well on the housing market too....subprime ARM loans...3 out of 4 new home buyers can't be wrong.

One can argue that upscale vehicle purchased are made by people with a larger amount of disposable income....thus the ability to throw money at a car and swap it out every 2-3 years....not caring about the dollars and sense...because it does not matter to them as much, and having a new car every 2-3 year fits their lifestyle.

Nothing beats zero car payments.

Buy your car cash, or make a sizeable downpayment so you are never upside down, and pay of your vehicle sooner than later.

Own your vehicle outright and put all those car payments in the bank.

phee

iTrader: (5)

who buys cars new anyway?

teranfon

If this is indeed true, then I would think the vast majority are leased as business expenses against a company. Leasing is a viable way to drive a new car or truck on a regular basis, and although there are tax benefits as well, it isn't for everyone. And in regards to business use, depreciating a purchased vehicle against a company can also be advantageous.

I think there is nothing wrong with purchasing a new car if you want to keep that car for an extended period. Of course, you need to be prepared to do so from the onset. Trading or selling a purchased vehicle every few years isn't a wise choice. That being said, there is also a huge appeal buying a used car which has already been depreciated.

For personal use, I would rather buy a new car optioned as I like, keep it serviced and maintained, and drive it for an extended period. For non-business use, leasing has always seemed to me to be nothing more than paying for the privilege of using a car that I will never own.


Terry

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

No...70% of the US population would not be in debt & living beyond their means.

YeuEmMaiMai

the only time it pays to buy a car new is when

1. you plan on keeping it for a long time
2. Pay cash or a significant portion in cash (so you are not eating intrest)
3. non luxury car

charliemike

Jesal

TheMirror

At the end of the day, never forget that leasing is essentially renting.

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

OP it looks like ur mind was made up b4 even asking what do we think?

I thought u made this thread so you would take advice. Not look for the advice you are hoping to get. (since it looks like ur dead set on leasing)

F23A4

....true enough. But at least IFS's rental rate on an G37 is far cheaper than that of Enterprise.

clpassenubye

iTrader: (20)

I see both sides of the story and I own my 2003 CL and I Lease My 2008 TL. I love owning a car and not having payments and I also like the fact that when you lease a vehicle you get the full experience of the vehicle and after your 2 or 3 year lease is up you can get something else especially while owning that car you figure out it wasn't something you wanted to own long term anyway. Plus I'm a businessowner so I get a greater write off on the car I lease than I do on the car I own. StoneCL I wouldn't necessarily say your experience is typical, I know there's issues with the transmission but I guess I've been lucky because I have owned 2 CL's and never had an issue with either transmission and my buddy owns the 2001 CL I originally owned and it has over 100k on the odo and its still on tranny #1.

StonedCL

iTrader: (1)

I just rather not have the hassle of fixing things and dont want anouther $500+ payment for 5 years..Who holds on to their cars for over 5 years , except for my stupid A$$ anyways. Like I said b4 NOONE owns there cars untill the loan is payed off the bank owns your car.. I was against leasing for years but after working in the car industry and learning about residuals and money factors most leases nowadays DO NOT pay even the lease on the tech TSX DOES NOT pay but the lease on the base TSX is way too good to pass up.. I like working on things myself also and fixing thing myself but the last year with this car i did alot of work to it, some i did not need to do but some things I did need to do. Shocks i needed to do, springs and RSB i did not need but things like that I can do myself with some help so fine, even when the coil pack went I did myself brakes I did myself but transmission I CAN NOT REBUILT, and now the rear main seal is leaking oil AND I CANT take the tranny out myself either, I am just getting sick of sinking money into a car that is worthless and then having to worry about the next thing that will go wrong.. If i did not do most of the work myself that $50,000 I spent in the last 10 years would be more like $60-$65K.. and fo that kina money I spent on a CL i could have leased a RL for the last 10 years for the same money!

clpassenubye

iTrader: (20)

I feel for you and your absolutely right to feel that way since you have had this experience with the CL. I had a similar situation with a BMW I owned its really frustrating when you have a car that is a money pit but that shouldn't mean you rule purchasing out totally because of that. I paid off both of my CL's and the only reason I got rid of my '01 was because of an accident and it would have a salvaged title.

JAB00

I will never buy a brand new car but I'll definitely buy a one to two year old car. I bought my 05 TL brand new. It's paid off. I plan on keeping it for another 3-4 yrs. There have been no significant problems. My only expenses will be routine maintenance. I don't think I'll ever lease.

neuronbob

(Raises hand)

I prefer new, understand the instant depreciation, and am willing to deal with it.

I deal with it by putting down a huge down payment so that a) I'm not upside down immediately, b) have small payments, and c) pay off early so I own the car completely. I can mod the car any way I like using this approach.

Leasing, aka renting your car is a bad idea except if you are doing it for your business (tax break).

I understand that some people prefer leasing, and that's their right. It's just not for me.

neuronbob

PS...for the CTS-V the lease deals were soooo bad, I mean abysmal, I mean shytty, at the time I bought that it was actually cheaper to make a huge down payment, then finance, than to lease. (I was originally going to lease through my business for the tax break, so I at least gave a cursory glance at leasing.)

subinf

I'm probably never going to lease. Much easier to buy the damn car and be done with it.

Gfaze

Buying new is not worth it IMO. I'd rather buy something a few years old with low miles and save myself thousands of dollars in the process.

TheMirror

LessisBestmakingendsmeet

Sounds like you feel that way b/c the CL simply cost you way to much money for a "new" car. Surely if you bought a trouble free or lower maintenance car new in 2000 and today, it was driving fine (no recent 3k tranny money) you would not feel that way.

Leasing makes a lot of sense if you own a business and can write it off or you simply want a new car over and over. The latter is personal preference. BTW your numbers are way off, BMWs are leased the most about 60%, Benz follows...Lexus, Benz, Infiniti, Acura are in the 40% range. That is why BMWs are attractive, they subsidize leases heavily, payments are cheap, there is free maintenance and you simply drive the car with little worries.

With a lease either you pay up front or at the end. I would personally never put money down on a lease UNLESS you feel you will own it.

I say if you want to BUY a car, make sure its a car that won't change much in 5 years (no redesign), it has a strong quality track record and basic maintenance is all you need. The bottom line is a car is a DEPRECIATING asset and I do agree with the suggestion, buy a nice new used car, preferably owned previously by an older couple.

I never understand leasing a luxury car for personal use. I'd rather BUY something cheaper if you want the payments the same. Why have a luxury car if money is an issue?

Street Spirit

Alternatively, as you started noticing the car requiring more expensive repairs, you could've weighed the value of the car vs. pouring lots more money into it. Modding was your choice, of course, but I wouldn't have paid an 'unreasonable' amount of money into repairing a 10+ year old car either---I would've sold it at signs something major was failing.

I got my '99 TL used in Jan. 2004. Did some preventative work on it as soon as I got it (changed all the fluids, etc) but truly haven't put too much money into keeping it running otherwise, aside from new brakes, which it required. If I'd been leasing this whole time, I would've lost a LOT more money than the set-up now because I would've had monthly payments.

Leasing is a rental agreement with lots of stipulations and things to keep in mind. Sure you get a new car every xx of years, but you've also always got to allocate money towards car payments...always. And at the end, you have nothing to show for the thousands of dollars you've put into it and don't get anything back either. IMO, it makes a whole lot more sense to buy something used, pay it off, drive it until it no longer makes financial sense to keep it, and start again. Leasing, IMO, really only makes better financial sense for some business purposes (or for people who have car ADHD and think a 1.5 year old car is "old").

CocheseUGA

For every story like the OPs, there is someone out there who has gotten many miles out of a car for just the purchase price and regular maintenance.

Exhibit A - 400k Legend
http://www.autopia.org/forum/click-b...ra-legend.html

(click the '300k and showroom clean' link in the link to read how he got asked to display his car in the Acura showroom)

F23A4

We shopped the 09 Nissan Murano (SL AWD) and found that the lease was only about $40/month cheaper than a 5 yr finance w/2k down.....both payments of which were in the upper $500-low $600 range.

Needless to say, the base 09 MDX had MUCH better lease rates, which is why we pulled that trigger.