How well is the new RL selling? (I've heard bad things from Acura dealers)
#121
Originally Posted by TLer
What point am I missing? I believe the thread asks if the RL is selling and almost everyone agrees with the point that it's not. The sales targets you mention are indicative of the fact that I mentioned earlier as well. MB with its 50K sales /year for its E class, BMW with its target at 45K for the 5 all demonstrate the fact that these marques are "known" to the masses that buy them and these manufacturers are fully confident that their cars will sell and hence the higher target sales and consequently more road sightings. Acura is treading into a new territory with this RL and they are obvioulsy not confident about how it will sell and as a result have conservative sales targets and rightly so because their initial fears are coming true because this car although truly technologically advanced is not selling period. As far as your point about Audi goes, I have to say that their reputation of unreliable cars has alot to do with less sales. This may not be very true for the newer products but this stigma will always haunt them. Acura on the other hand has a very strong reputation for building bullet proof cars but alas even this is apparently not sufficient enough for people to buy the RL.
Now you're taking the target sales volume and turning that into a whole new argument about why it's not selling. If you think I can't see through that, you're only kidding yourself.
#122
Well you are implying wrong. You were the one who brought sales targets into the equation here. All I said was I don't see this car selling just like the thread asks and here is the question just in case you missed it "How well is the new RL selling?"
#123
Nice try. I brought in the sales target to try to rationalize against what you wrote. Go back and see what you wrote....if you can imply something else from what you wrote, I'd like to know it.
Now you're the one bringing the sales target argument as Acura's fear of failure, blah blah blah. Totally taking it into new arguments. Here's something you probably don't also know: MB, despite selling 50K a year for the E-Class, had actually expected to sell more than that initially. They had to cut production when they realized they overshot their sales target.
And FYI, maybe you can benefit more from re-reading the question than I. It asks how well the RL is selling, and per the market report, it's selling as expected. It did not ask you how many RL's you saw on the road and then make a statement about how well it's selling based on your observation.
And I'm just going to end this right here; if you're too obstinate to see the facts as they are, I really can't help you understand it any better.
Now you're the one bringing the sales target argument as Acura's fear of failure, blah blah blah. Totally taking it into new arguments. Here's something you probably don't also know: MB, despite selling 50K a year for the E-Class, had actually expected to sell more than that initially. They had to cut production when they realized they overshot their sales target.
And FYI, maybe you can benefit more from re-reading the question than I. It asks how well the RL is selling, and per the market report, it's selling as expected. It did not ask you how many RL's you saw on the road and then make a statement about how well it's selling based on your observation.
And I'm just going to end this right here; if you're too obstinate to see the facts as they are, I really can't help you understand it any better.
#124
Senior Moderator
Thinking aloud: 1) build a new mouse trap, 2) lightly market it, 3) set an arbitrarily low sales goal, 4) actual sales figures easily exceed arbitrarily low sales goal, 5) call product a sales success.
#125
Senior Moderator
Seriously though, I dont really know how successful the new RL is thus far. But here's some perspective on it from Forbes magazine, a magazine that is more than likely aimed at the same socioeconomic demographic as the RL itself.
#126
Originally Posted by phile
Nice try. I brought in the sales target to try to rationalize against what you wrote. Go back and see what you wrote....if you can imply something else from what you wrote, I'd like to know it.
Now you're the one bringing the sales target argument as Acura's fear of failure, blah blah blah. Totally taking it into new arguments. Here's something you probably don't also know: MB, despite selling 50K a year for the E-Class, had actually expected to sell more than that initially. They had to cut production when they realized they overshot their sales target.
And FYI, maybe you can benefit more from re-reading the question than I. It asks how well the RL is selling, and per the market report, it's selling as expected. It did not ask you how many RL's you saw on the road and then make a statement about how well it's selling based on your observation.
And I'm just going to end this right here; if you're too obstinate to see the facts as they are, I really can't help you understand it any better.
Now you're the one bringing the sales target argument as Acura's fear of failure, blah blah blah. Totally taking it into new arguments. Here's something you probably don't also know: MB, despite selling 50K a year for the E-Class, had actually expected to sell more than that initially. They had to cut production when they realized they overshot their sales target.
And FYI, maybe you can benefit more from re-reading the question than I. It asks how well the RL is selling, and per the market report, it's selling as expected. It did not ask you how many RL's you saw on the road and then make a statement about how well it's selling based on your observation.
And I'm just going to end this right here; if you're too obstinate to see the facts as they are, I really can't help you understand it any better.
#127
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by F23A4
Thinking aloud: 1) build a new mouse trap, 2) lightly market it, 3) set an arbitrarily low sales goal, 4) actual sales figures easily exceed arbitrarily low sales goal, 5) call product a sales success.
You forgot step 4B..
If sales figures don't meet expectation, adjust the forcast... Then you can say we're 10% above forcast and call it a success...
#128
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by GreenMonster
That's not far off from what I've seen in some companies...
You forgot step 4B..
If sales figures don't meet expectation, adjust the forcast... Then you can say we're 10% above forcast and call it a success...
You forgot step 4B..
If sales figures don't meet expectation, adjust the forcast... Then you can say we're 10% above forcast and call it a success...
.....I missed that VERY accurate sub-step.
#129
Originally Posted by GreenMonster
That's not far off from what I've seen in some companies...
I bet if Acura priced it at 40K and sold a bunch, someone would say it's only selling that way because it's priced so low.
But it's at 50K and selling in small numbers, and we get people calling doom.
Can't win with the naysayers.
#130
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by phile
It's a double edged sword for Acura.
I bet if Acura priced it at 40K and sold a bunch, someone would say it's only selling that way because it's priced so low.
But it's at 50K and selling in small numbers, and we get people calling doom.
Can't win with the naysayers.
I bet if Acura priced it at 40K and sold a bunch, someone would say it's only selling that way because it's priced so low.
But it's at 50K and selling in small numbers, and we get people calling doom.
Can't win with the naysayers.
I know the argument about the 'V8 engine' is getting old and the new RL's V6 is pretty remarkable in its own rite. But I think it really does come down to that V8 motor being what defines your flagship sedan. Even if it only represents 25% of the actual flagship models sold.
F23A4, who's favorite $50k sedan is the CTS-V.
#131
Acura will never become a marque like BMW because it is considered a luxury Honda. People are not going to pay over $60K Cdn for an Acura; instead they’ll pay for a BMW for the status symbol. Keep in mind that Acura cars are as good as BMW in technology. With the RL, Acura has hit the wall in terms of price and status.
If Acura wants to get the BMW crowd. They got to make it so that their cars have the same aspects of what makes a BMW/Merc desirable.
There are a couple essential factors that I think will make Acura compete with BMW.
1. Produce cars with rear-wheel drive.
2. Increase the torque in the engine.
3. Create in house performance cars. Mugean and other tuner names cannot cut it. They need a name that is prestigious and powerful. It needs to resonant with the normal population and not only the tuner crowd
If Acura wants to get the BMW crowd. They got to make it so that their cars have the same aspects of what makes a BMW/Merc desirable.
There are a couple essential factors that I think will make Acura compete with BMW.
1. Produce cars with rear-wheel drive.
2. Increase the torque in the engine.
3. Create in house performance cars. Mugean and other tuner names cannot cut it. They need a name that is prestigious and powerful. It needs to resonant with the normal population and not only the tuner crowd
#132
Just hold on a little longer. The rumor mills have been churning out songs of a future V8 flagship. Honda finally caved in to the pickup truck, I have hope for a V8, even if it's just a rumor at this point.
#134
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by phile
Just hold on a little longer. The rumor mills have been churning out songs of a future V8 flagship. Honda finally caved in to the pickup truck, I have hope for a V8, even if it's just a rumor at this point.
Regarding the Ridgeline, that truck will probably only appeal to Hondaphiles that need some p/u truck functionality (read: weekend trips to Home Depot/Lowes or Boy Scout camping). I doubt they will sway many buyers away from the F150 and Tundra (much the way the RL will probably attract few 5-series and E-class buyers).
#135
You mean like 80% of the pickups that don’t carry anything at all? I think Honda hit the mark on this truck of the segment. We just don’t know it yet. There is 10 pickups in my street and 8 of them don’t carry anything at all in the bed. 2 of them carried small items, but nothing what the pickup is potential of carrying.
Honda is going sell every one they’ll make.
Honda is going sell every one they’ll make.
Originally Posted by F23A4
My money is on Honda's first production V8 debuting in the new NSX, followed by the 4G Legend. As with most Honda engines, I'm sure it'll be impressive.
Regarding the Ridgeline, that truck will probably only appeal to Hondaphiles that need some p/u truck functionality (read: weekend trips to Home Depot/Lowes or Boy Scout camping). I doubt they will sway many buyers away from the F150 and Tundra (much the way the RL will probably attract few 5-series and E-class buyers).
Regarding the Ridgeline, that truck will probably only appeal to Hondaphiles that need some p/u truck functionality (read: weekend trips to Home Depot/Lowes or Boy Scout camping). I doubt they will sway many buyers away from the F150 and Tundra (much the way the RL will probably attract few 5-series and E-class buyers).
#136
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by MADCAT
You mean like 80% of the pickups that don’t carry anything at all? I think Honda hit the mark on this truck of the segment. We just don’t know it yet. There is 10 pickups in my street and 8 of them don’t carry anything at all in the bed. 2 of them carried small items, but nothing what the pickup is potential of carrying.
Honda is going sell every one they’ll make.
Honda is going sell every one they’ll make.
....and I'm certain Hondaphiles with truck desires will flock to it in mass.
#138
Originally Posted by MADCAT
Acura will never become a marque like BMW because it is considered a luxury Honda. People are not going to pay over $60K Cdn for an Acura; instead they’ll pay for a BMW for the status symbol. Keep in mind that Acura cars are as good as BMW in technology. With the RL, Acura has hit the wall in terms of price and status.
If Acura wants to get the BMW crowd. They got to make it so that their cars have the same aspects of what makes a BMW/Merc desirable.
There are a couple essential factors that I think will make Acura compete with BMW.
1. Produce cars with rear-wheel drive.
2. Increase the torque in the engine.
3. Create in house performance cars. Mugean and other tuner names cannot cut it. They need a name that is prestigious and powerful. It needs to resonant with the normal population and not only the tuner crowd
If Acura wants to get the BMW crowd. They got to make it so that their cars have the same aspects of what makes a BMW/Merc desirable.
There are a couple essential factors that I think will make Acura compete with BMW.
1. Produce cars with rear-wheel drive.
2. Increase the torque in the engine.
3. Create in house performance cars. Mugean and other tuner names cannot cut it. They need a name that is prestigious and powerful. It needs to resonant with the normal population and not only the tuner crowd
Acura needs to not worry about BMW.
#139
Senior Moderator
With the G35 actively eating up sales of the E46, BMW is probably more concerned with Infiniti than Acura.
DC lost some prestige due to poor QC, which folks correlate to the MB's merger with Chrysler.
DC lost some prestige due to poor QC, which folks correlate to the MB's merger with Chrysler.
#140
Originally Posted by F23A4
My money is on Honda's first production V8 debuting in the new NSX, followed by the 4G Legend. As with most Honda engines, I'm sure it'll be impressive.
Regarding the Ridgeline, that truck will probably only appeal to Hondaphiles that need some p/u truck functionality (read: weekend trips to Home Depot/Lowes or Boy Scout camping). I doubt they will sway many buyers away from the F150 and Tundra (much the way the RL will probably attract few 5-series and E-class buyers).
Regarding the Ridgeline, that truck will probably only appeal to Hondaphiles that need some p/u truck functionality (read: weekend trips to Home Depot/Lowes or Boy Scout camping). I doubt they will sway many buyers away from the F150 and Tundra (much the way the RL will probably attract few 5-series and E-class buyers).
I don't think the Ridgeline will bomb, but the market is much different than the RL's market. If you think the Euro-philes are hard to win over, I think fans of the Big 3, in regards to pickup trucks, are even more loyal to the bowtie and the blue oval.
#141
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I think at this moment Acura main target is Audi. They get their fair share of BMW and Merc people. Especially in a colder climate. I am just always fascinated by people who post on this board in relation to what i see in my daily work. Companies rarely go from 0 to hero overnight. Acura sales goal for 05 is 217k units. While I do think BMW has its brand image I don't see the new 3 selling as well when it starts at 32-33k base. The Rl will be fine. Add the RDX in 06 and Acura shopuld have no problem selling 240k units which will put them on par with most other manufacturers.
#142
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Stevens24
I think at this moment Acura main target is Audi. They get their fair share of BMW and Merc people. Especially in a colder climate. I am just always fascinated by people who post on this board in relation to what i see in my daily work. Companies rarely go from 0 to hero overnight. Acura sales goal for 05 is 217k units. While I do think BMW has its brand image I don't see the new 3 selling as well when it starts at 32-33k base. The Rl will be fine. Add the RDX in 06 and Acura shopuld have no problem selling 240k units which will put them on par with most other manufacturers.
As far as people on this board (as with other boards: Maxima.org, Clubgp.com, Altimas.net, g35driver.com, etc,..), most of us are enthusiasts and probably dont represent the mainstream of the autobuying public. (ex.: Where the TL-S is probably the 2G TL most of us would opt for, most of the buying public would just get a TL-P and call it a day.) To wit, we aim high on what we would (and sometimes do) purchase and see V8 flagships out of Caddy, BMW, MB, Infiniti & Lexus as preferable over a 6 cylinder flagship from Acura (no matter how competent the car is).
So will the RL be fine? Only time will tell for certain but, I think all of us appreciate the RL for what it is. I'd also go out on a limb and proclaim that most would probably perfer something else for $50k.
The new 3/4 series will sell well just because of its brand image. Right now, only the G35 is truly poised to make measurable inroads in drawing sales away from the baby Bimmers. (<--- my opinion)
(The jury is still out on the RDX for obvious reasons but, I do picture it taking some sales away from the Nissan Murano but not making a big impact on sales of the trendy FX. )
#143
Originally Posted by Crazy88
for the money i think you can get a better car than the RL. I think a high percentage of buyers are honda or acura loyalists. i dont see anyone going from a 5 series or E class to an RL
My wife went from a BMW 528i to an RL. She had a choice to buy an MB E350, BMW 530i (with the new R6 engine), BMW 645 and she chose the RL. Granted that she has the option to sell it if she doesn't want to keep it. I like it so much in fact that I may take it as my daily driver. She was fed up with the maintenance issues of the Germans at this time. Better to be able to drive a car than own one that the dealers want to keep at their locations while you make the payments.
As far as the money factor, unless you have bought MB's or BMW's then you dont understand what a bargain this car really is? In fact, $50K wont last long because the value of this car is bound to increase once people discover what is included for the dollar.
The V6 is not an issue and is comparable compared to the E350 or 530i since they are also both V6's. Those prices do not include all wheel drive. Especially since the Germans are all about a' la carte.
Spec out the benz or the BMW and then come back to this forum and post your findings.
BTW: The Benz E350 is $66300 comparibly equipped
The BMW 5301 (R6 engine) is $62800 comparibly equipped.
Neither of these cars offer all of the options and features included in the RL. They are on the way but at a cost. They dont play DVD-A's and many other technological features.
The drive is different but not in a bad way. Just not a German drive.
In short, it's not about the money with us but the quality and this is far better quality at this time. The Germans are going to lose ground to the Japanese unless they resolve the quality issues.
#144
Originally Posted by F23A4
With the G35 actively eating up sales of the E46, BMW is probably more concerned with Infiniti than Acura.
DC lost some prestige due to poor QC, which folks correlate to the MB's merger with Chrysler.
DC lost some prestige due to poor QC, which folks correlate to the MB's merger with Chrysler.
Hou-RL is right, its about the quality or lack thereof of the Germans.
#145
Originally Posted by LessisBestmakingendsmeet
..And G35 sales are 1/2 of TL sales....
#147
Originally Posted by Stevens24
If you just include the sedan it is close to double. If you include both coupe and sedan the difference is about 6k units.
#148
Senior Moderator
Kudos to Infiniti for giving the consumer market two configuration choices on this model. Both of which seem to be selling successfully
#149
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Originally Posted by Hou-RL
The V6 is not an issue and is comparable compared to the E350 or 530i since they are also both V6's. Those prices do not include all wheel drive. Especially since the Germans are all about a' la carte.
But in the end there was the 540i and now the 545i which are V8s and have an impressionable impact on the market. Regardless of the power output there is a perception aspect to the lead vehcile.
#151
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by scalbert
But in the end there was the 540i and now the 545i which are V8s and have an impressionable impact on the market. Regardless of the power output there is a perception aspect to the lead vehcile.
Exactly the point I tried to make a while back.
#152
Originally Posted by scalbert
Better check out your BMW's better as that 528i and the 530i are Inline-6 engines, not V6's.
But in the end there was the 540i and now the 545i which are V8s and have an impressionable impact on the market. Regardless of the power output there is a perception aspect to the lead vehcile.
But in the end there was the 540i and now the 545i which are V8s and have an impressionable impact on the market. Regardless of the power output there is a perception aspect to the lead vehcile.
Sorry about that! Inline 6, Scalbert you are correct! But the point is that they are comparable and are all 6 cylinders. However, we are talking about apples to apples. BMW and MB both sell far more 6 cylinders than they do 8 cylinders. The cost from MB or BMW for the V8 prestige is $10K. That is what an V8 cost compared to a 6 cylinder. As far as prestige go , who cares.? I have an '04 996 TT and an '05 MB SL500 so prestige is not of my concern. Quality is the real issue! The engines don't have many issues but the electrical and materials are where the majority of the problems are. Many people, especially those I dicuss this with, are fed up with the quality issues and time spent in the shop from the German cars. I would much rather have a car in my garage than at the dealer. The dealer doesn't pay any car notes when it sits there for 2 months out of the year. If they paid the note for the time in the shop then I wouldn't care. It is just too much trouble to have to fbring my car in all the time for the light going out just becasue I put my foot on the pedal. The other headlight going out because I engaged the switch. Get the point1 The Japanese cars are not giving us that kind of problems. We need reliable cars that we can driive daily and not have to get to know the service advisor so that we can hopefully get a loaner car within the next week or two.
Originally Posted by matelot
Isn't it wise to avoid the RL beause sh-awd is version 1.0 ? there has got to be bugs no ?
I beleive it started on the prelude with the feature working on the front wheel drive. I termed it SF-AWAD but I forgot the name. Then the MDX has the more advanced feature of the Prelude's version SF-AWD applied to all wheels. Acura just upped the ante and gave their flagship car the latest tweak to it. I realize the risk in buying a new model but it is no riskier than buying anoher Porsch, MB or BMW. The engine isn't new since it is also a reworked versionof what the MDX uses. The one thing about Acura/Honda is that they dont just put a new feature in cars and hope for the best. That is exactly what we feel the Germans are doing right now. My wife and I love our cars but have better things to do than spend time at dealerships. She loooovves BMW since she was a kid but refuses to go through this again.
#153
Originally Posted by cob3683
Same car, nothing new. My dad's friend who sold him his still cannot figure out why MB upped the price.
For better prices, the currency exchange would have to revert direction.
#154
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Originally Posted by Hou-RL
Get the point1 The Japanese cars are not giving us that kind of problems.
I beleive it started on the prelude with the feature working on the front wheel drive. I termed it SF-AWAD but I forgot the name. Then the MDX has the more advanced feature of the Prelude's version SF-AWD applied to all wheels.
I beleive it started on the prelude with the feature working on the front wheel drive. I termed it SF-AWAD but I forgot the name. Then the MDX has the more advanced feature of the Prelude's version SF-AWD applied to all wheels.
The SH system on the Prelude employed similar technology but was limited to just transferring power between the front wheel. The SHAWD system has one, if not two, additional electronically controlled clutches which significantly separates it from the not entirely praised system on the Prelude. Plus, the new SHAWD system is moving noticeably more mass and without the FWD traction limitation will incur greater load.
#155
Burn some dust here
Originally Posted by slo007
Very simple: the Dollar is losing value to the Euro. The less the Dollar is worth, the higher the price of all European products, including cars; hence the huge increase in price!!
For better prices, the currency exchange would have to revert direction.
For better prices, the currency exchange would have to revert direction.
#157
Senior Moderator
I saw one last weekend. Looks nice but really doesnt stand out much; which may be good and bad.
#158
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the new RL is everywhere here, i see quite a few daily now, its surprising too since i live in the area where both the acura dealerships are like 30 miles away and there are bmw, mercedes, lexus dealerships very close
#160
I saw a blue one today, with the license from the dealer still on it. But whether it was a test drive or a new owner, it was good looking. The paint looks richer than typical Honda, and the LED lights up really nice.
unfortunately I was only able to recognize it after it had passed. From a front view, it really doesn't stand out. I couldn't tell what car it was from the rearview mirror.
unfortunately I was only able to recognize it after it had passed. From a front view, it really doesn't stand out. I couldn't tell what car it was from the rearview mirror.