Rancher2005

Acurazine,

Not long ago, I traded in my '07 type-s and truck towards the purchase of a '14 Jeep Grand Cherokee. I've had the Jeep for about a year now and this past winter I said I wanted to get something more exciting (Jeep is 3.6L V6). I also see tons of my Grand Cherokees on the road and know that the vast majority are leases as they are highly incentivized in the area (NY, NJ, CT). With the depreciation of this and other Chrysler products in mind, I'd like to get out quickly. In an effort to be more cost conscious, I want to get something older, but still a performance sedan - ideally V8 M/T. My intent is to get some of the "equity" I have in the Jeep out to put in the bank and use a smaller down payment for something in the 16k or less range. The extra money in hand and reduced monthly payment will be favorable since I'm looking to purchase property at the end of the year. I'd also expect that something older may depreciate less year to year than where I'm currently at with a 3 year old vehicle. While not synonymous reliability, performance, and depreciation are my biggest concerns. I hope you can give me feedback on what I've considered below and offer any suggestions based on personal experience.

4G TL - SH-AWD M/t - I've noticed 2010-2013 with less than 75K can be found for around 16K - Performance will be less sadly than other options below
Audi S4 (B7) - 4.2L V8 but I've heard these maintenance gets to be a bit much. Also smaller in size than I would like.
CTS-V - '06-'07 for LS2 - Still fairly expensive even at higher miles
BMW 335i,- On the smaller side for me and I don't want to not be CPO. A warranty probably won't be included with my budget above
BMW 535i / 550i - The size suits me better but again without CPO, I'm concerned about the maintenance
E55 - The incredible power is concerning particularly if there is winter weather, I'll have to take the train. Also the maintenance may be very high.
Lexus ISF - This has the power and reliability I'm looking for but likely out of the budget since model years start at '08. Also Auto Only
Pontiac G8 / Chevy SS - To find a M/T is rare and these seem to really be holding their value well. I saw a G8 GXP with 98k listed for 20,000. It only lost 29% of it's value in over 8 years.
CTS - (no V) - I saw a 2009 M/T 3.6L Direct Injection recently with less than 50k miles for less than13k. Was very surprised to find a M/T. Sharp looking vehicle and about 300 HP and RWD. How would this compare to the 4G Acura?

Help me make a choice thats smart for the wallet but fun.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

4G TL - SH-AWD M/t - ugly and out of your budget
Audi S4 (B7) - you can't afford the upkeep
CTS-V - out of your budget
BMW 335i,- you can't afford the upkeep
BMW 535i / 550i - you can't afford the upkeep
E55 - you can't afford the upkeep
Lexus ISF - out of your budget
Pontiac G8 / Chevy SS - maybe
CTS - no V is a no go.

Rancher2005

That was helpful. What do you suggest then? Not being able to and not wanting to afford the upkeep are two different things. I've stated I don't want to, not that I can't. The 4G as I've stated above is not out of the budget. A manual equipped G8 / SS is however considerably out of my budget, but you stated maybe??

GYac

would help to know your budget...

im assuming around 20k?

Rick_TL-S

There's more than a few 1st gen CTS-Vs out there under $20,000 that may interest you. It's a question of whether or not you can live with some of the mileage on them. AutoTrader has 3 though, that are between 60-80,000 miles on them. The rest are well over 100,000.

The IS-F is far out of what you're asking. The only one in your budget has 249,000 miles on it. Everything in the $20-30K range has 70,000+ miles. $30-35K; 50-60,000 miles. After $40k, it starts to vary. Car has started appreciating again.

GYac

I know you trying to avoid Chrysler but in my area theres a few 2012-13 SRT-8 chargers with under 50k for under 25k

Several 2016 R/Ts for around 20k

AnthraciteAspec

iTrader: (6)

I think this is his budget?

AnthraciteAspec

iTrader: (6)

I had to go look this up on carguru to verify. Amazing that someone has 250k on an IS-F lol

It is listed for $13,900 if anyone is curious and according to cargurus its overpriced by $4k!

It actually looks to be in decent condition, I would be tempted to buy it if it was near me.

Rancher2005

That's pretty impressive for a high reving v8. I wonder what those transmissions are capable of power wise and for longevity. Sorry I wrote a novel but yes my budget is ideally around 16k. I'd entertain18k if the trade-in is equitable or can get a reasonable concession on the price.

I just don't see myself in another Chrysler. The heavy depreciation makes them attractive initially. You can get a lot of car for seemingly little, that is until the depreciation affects you as the owner.

How do the higher mileage LS6's (04-05) and LS2's hold up (06-07) CTS-V? Or L76 6.0liter engine from G8 GT? - Most GXP's with the LS3 seem out of the price range.
The G8 GT has active fuel management and I know this plagued a number of Silverado's so I'm wondering if there were issues here.

I just want to set my autolist, cargurus, and iseecars, alerts to the right things so I can make a good decision.

Sarlacc

Actually, Challenger RT and SRT models hold their values quite well. Personal experience.

Sarlacc

And if you're looking to spend $16k and you're worried about depreciation...youre already not making a good decision.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

How much are you gonna sell the GC?

Rancher2005

How is this the case? Haven't most of the vehicles above seen the bulk of their depreciation by now? I know there might be another point at which they take a hit but that spike might be hard to predict. Is this more inherent to the class of car, or the budget?

GC will be listed around $21K

Sarlacc

Unless you're buying a collector car, the whole idea of looking at buying a used car and worrying about its value is pointless. Drive the car and enjoy it. Cars are not sound financial investments. Don't try and fake like it is.

If that is your concern go buy a Highlander or RX350 for a steal, you'll always get your money back out of those.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Have to agree with this. Someone mentioned above the 1st Gen CTS-V but the differential issues on those would be enough to scare me away (and put you over budget pretty quickly).

What about an older Honda S2000? Fun, RWD, drop top, not super expensive to maintain or fix...

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like he's in the market for a sedan, but I always approve of the purchase of an S2k

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

^ It does... but if you're going to spend $16k on another car... might as well make that one the impractical one.

He has the Jeep for passengers

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Maybe for a sedan look at the STS-V. More in his price range and overall pretty reliable...

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

STS-V is desirable ... although I hear they have a lot of issues with other CTS-Vs hydroplaning into them.

Seems to be a common problem around here

Sarlacc

he is selling the jeep and using whatever "equity" he has or thinks he has towards the new car.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

^ My bad... missed the part where it said he wanted to get out of the Jeep. It's like a wall of words... so skimmed right over that Then yeah, I'd either keep the Jeep or maybe look at an STS sedan or something.

Honestly... best bet is to keep the Jeep. It's a 2014, so much newer than anything he'd be able to afford listed above... and most of the major depreciation has already been realized. As you said Sarlacc... cars depreciate and are not a good investment. It makes even less sense to buy high and sell low. At this point just keep it and drive it...

The only sensible suggestion I'd make is an Accord Sport or something similar at this point. Nothing else listed will provide any savings in either the short-term or long-term.

SamDoe1

$16k for a reliable high end sport sedan is an oxymoron.

Cheap, Fast, Reliable. Pick two.

Rancher2005

You're right!

Rancher2005

Noted.

AnthraciteAspec

iTrader: (6)

Where are you located?

There is a 2014 RLX with Tech package here for 18k. 66k miles.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

In looking at ^ his profile pic... what about a 3G TL-S?

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

How many miles and loaded? Actually in the market for one.

wackjum

OP traded in a 3G TL-S for the Jeep.

SuperTrooper169

iTrader: (2)

I'm obviously biased, and you said you don't want another Chrysler product, but it's hard to beat a Charger R/T or SRT in terms of performance for the $. G8 GXPs and SSs are amazing cars, and I'm sure incredibly fun to drive with a manual, but you have to pay to play to get into one of those.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Must have my Monday skimming glasses on. Still, maybe he should go back to a 3G TL-S

This isn't a bad idea. I was even thinking a Cherokee SRT-8.

Thing with all of those types of cars listed is that he'd have to buy older models and the gas mileage on nearly all of them suck. So he may be able to make the purchase within budget... but operating costs (and insurance likely as well) will be high.

I still say stick with the Jeep you have, go back to a TL-S... or get a newer Accord and then just drive it until it dies while saving money...

Rick_TL-S

1st gen. CTS-Vs had issues with the rear axle/differential more than anything else. Nothing wrong with either motor tmk, but anything with a LS2 as your powerplant is going to be pretty bullet proof. Ridiculously reliable engine & responds to mods very well.

SamDoe1

On a side note, how is the reliability of the IS-F when it gets up to the 70-100k mileage range? Any major issues? I'd imagine it's quite a lot more reliable than a M3 or something along those lines.

oonowindoo

You want a Luxury brand and you want it to be reliable at higher mileage and you don't want to pay for the upkeep and you want the performance all for under $20k?

My suggestion to you is to get a 1 year old WRX or a GTI and be realistic about what you want.

kurtatx

Seconded. Really good cars that hold their values (especially the Subaru).

Sarlacc

You aint getting a Jeep SRT for under $25...and it will have a fuck ton of miles on it.

wackjum

I've been meaning to get to this post all day but things kept coming up. Here's my perspective.

Basically, you will get used to any car you drive. To keep things fresh, have more than one vehicle. Then you will appreciate your sports car more when you get back in it. Since you already have the Jeep, I would keep it since it sounds like you get real winters where you are anyway. You missed the big initial depreciation on the Jeep (ie: buying new) so it probably isn't a bad deal overall.

All cars are a compromise. You can't have great on road handling and high off-road ground clearance for example. True sports cars make sacrifices in other areas like ease of maintenance, cabin utility, and passenger comfort for the sake of performance.

If I were you, I would keep the Jeep and get a true sports car as a second vehicle. You don't even have to splurge very much like going for an older Corvette or Miata.

Also, another thing about used cars. Things will break. Sometimes you're just going to need to put it aside for a few days while you work on it. If you have a second vehicle, this is no big deal. But if you're relying on one vehicle, I would stay away from the really old stuff. This rules out the E55 and 1st gen CTS-V.

The 4G SH-AWD TL 6MT is no slouch. Don't underestimate it. If I were in the market for a large sedan, it would be on the top of my list.

RDX10

I literally could not possibly have said it better. I share this exact view point 100%. Well said and well articulated.

OP if your Jeep is not giving you issues, just keep it until you can save up and afford another car on the side. It makes no sense to take a bath on the Jeep and then take a bath on the next car. There are other cheaper alternatives that you can buy in the future (things like older subies, older GTI's and Golfs...etc). Don't push yourself in a way that is going to put you in financial stress.

I personally don't share the impression that your are trying to fake it till you make it, more that you want something performance oriented but have a budget. It's just not a very good financial move right now IMHO. If you really are set on getting a good handling sedan that has decent performance, don't sleep on the 2006 (body style, not sure on what gen that is) Lexus GS460, that is an amazing car for what they are currently going for IMHO.

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

Couldn't have said it better.

I love having 2 cars, best of both worlds.

Sarlacc

I only miss having two (three cause of wife's) vehicles in the sense of when I did my 2nd one was stick.

I dont miss having two (three cause of wife's) vehicles because I found that gives me the best of both worlds, sans a clutch.

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

Totally understandable.

I think your Challenger was pretty a damn good all rounder - Safe, powerful, MT, pretty practical for a Coupe. But I'd imagine .. as a Dad with 2 kiddos, the Durango is also a great all-rounder, too.

In my case, I daily drove my S2000 for 2.5 years before I got the itch for a sedan which lead me ultimately buying something that I knew would not be reliable and I had a backup in the event it went south (which coincidentally, it has )

No rAgrets what-so-ever, 2 very enjoyable vehicles when they're running