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All I know is it'll be a very cold day in hell before I ever buy any sort of SUV. I cannot stand driving something so tall. We have three cars and none of them are an SUV or CUV.
I was once anti-SUV. Of course then I needed an SUV to start carrying equipment around for work...then I became a fan (and I got a 4WD so I tried some light off roading which I discovered is fun as hell) From there on out my daily has always been a SUV. In LA, its easier to see around corners packed with parked cars. Plus I love the shit out of my current vehicle.
And my wife likes to sit up higher, so she has an SUV...mind you she started with a civic coupe and ended up with my Prius (which I subbed for an SUV for a while) and we have twins and all the shit that came with that. We just replaced her lease with another small SUV. NOT for a lack of looking at other options we looked at wagons, she didn't want a sedan because she didn't want a trunk, she wants a hatch. And I was going for a 328GT, before we discovered the one we wanted had been in an accident. SO, it lead her back to a small SUV.
I even floated her the idea of taking my beloved Durango (which I know she would trash) and me getting a Charger or something like that, but she didn't want to do that.
Anywho...long story short. 2 SUVs with this household.
I was once anti-SUV. Of course then I needed an SUV to start carrying equipment around for work...then I became a fan (and I got a 4WD so I tried some light off roading which I discovered is fun as hell) From there on out my daily has always been a SUV. In LA, its easier to see around corners packed with parked cars. Plus I love the shit out of my current vehicle.
And my wife likes to sit up higher, so she has an SUV...mind you she started with a civic coupe and ended up with my Prius (which I subbed for an SUV for a while) and we have twins and all the shit that came with that. We just replaced her lease with another small SUV. NOT for a lack of looking at other options we looked at wagons, she didn't want a sedan because she didn't want a trunk, she wants a hatch. And I was going for a 328GT, before we discovered the one we wanted had been in an accident. SO, it lead her back to a small SUV.
I even floated her the idea of taking my beloved Durango (which I know she would trash) and me getting a Charger or something like that, but she didn't want to do that.
Anywho...long story short. 2 SUVs with this household.
Hey, thanks for sharing your views. Sure, I totally get it. For some folks (like your household w/twins!), an SUV makes perfect sense and gets the job done, just like pick-up trucks are useful for others.
But a HIGHER RIDE HEIGHT (which translates into better visibility), NOT simply the added utility of more cargo space, is the main argument, right? Because if the only (or primary) problem was insufficient cargo space, then a wagon might suffice, no? Or is the higher ride height/better visibility just an added bonus to the greater cargo capacity? (I have a feeling that it's the combination of these traits, plus the added sense of safety/power on the road, that makes the SUV segment so alluring to many.)
Still, I wonder, what if everyone is driving a vehicle that runs at a higher ride height (which is where we seem to be headed)? To folks who prefer "normal" cars, it can feel like an arms race, sometimes....
Sales of the Nissan Altima, Honda Accord, and Toyota Camry certainly support this view. But what other models are volume leaders?
Another clarification from Tim Cain at TTAC: "The midsize sedan as we know it — 'midsizedus sedanicus' in the original latin — isn’t going anywhere any time soon, but the ongoing sales contraction will result in a reduction of mainstream intermediate sedans in the U.S. market."
Hey, thanks for sharing your views. Sure, I totally get it. For some folks (like your household w/twins!), an SUV makes perfect sense and gets the job done, just like pick-up trucks are useful for others.
But a HIGHER RIDE HEIGHT (which translates into better visibility), NOT simply the added utility of more cargo space, is the main argument, right? Because if the only (or primary) problem was insufficient cargo space, then a wagon might suffice, no? Or is the higher ride height/better visibility just an added bonus to the greater cargo capacity? (I have a feeling that it's the combination of these traits, plus the added sense of safety/power on the road, that makes the SUV segment so alluring to many.)
Still, I wonder, what if everyone is driving a vehicle that runs at a higher ride height (which is where we seem to be headed)? To folks who prefer "normal" cars, it can feel like an arms race, sometimes....
For my wife, ride height is important but not a deal breaker. We test drove the Golf Wagen, and we were going to look at the new Kia Niro (but so new we probably wouldn't have gotten a deal) We already had a Prius and didn't like it. So, wagon choices in the US market are limited and we need more than a hatchback.
At this point in time since making a career move I probably don't need something the size of the Durango, but I have completely fallen in love with that car. I love how it drives, how it looks, the interior layout, etc etc etc. And since I put a lot down and have 0% on it, its silly to think of getting rid of it.
I have to say the demise of the mid size sedan has been coming for a very long time. However it won't ever truly be gone. They can use all the electronic wizardry they want with torque vectoring, full time AWD, RWD, active sway bars, adaptive shocks and struts.....etc. But an SUV can NEVER drive like a sedan, let alone an actual performance sedan. If anything, we're going to go through a revolution again. SUV's will become the mom and dad mobile and sedans and vans will be back in again. Just look at wagons slowly but surly making a comeback.
When you think about it, the automotive industry is kinda maxed out. Very few advancements can be made at this point.
We have three dogs and need an suv. Mrs. Dallison refuses to buy a wagon. We have a 2001 4runner with 187k and we'll replace it with another or a sequoia.
I was anti-SUV forever, hence my purchase of a 530xi-T. I was given a x3 loaner for a while and came to like it. As a second vehicle it would not be a bad choice but still I would defer to a wagon. dallison, you should show the Misses the new Volvo V90
I was anti-SUV for a long time and even used to rib my friends who had one. Then we got the FJ Cruiser when we had our business and I loved it. While it's a small SUV (and even SUV is used loosely with an FJ), it really was awesome. So awesome that once we sold the businesses we took the vinyl off and it's been my "daily" driver ever since. Now, I'm a converted truck/SUV guy and prefer to have one of those plus a sporty car for fun. My wife is still a car person though. Tried to get her to look at the Macan, Cayenne, or an AMG SUV but she still wanted the car. She went the opposite route and uses the car as her daily, then has a Jeep for fun. But yeah, we used to be a car family and now we only have 1 car... rest are either a truck or SUV...
When I was looking at a new vehicle, I considered an SUV/crossover because of the utility (great for moving things and for the dogs and for going off roading, if needed) and it sits up higher. But while test driving some, I just didn't feel right in the driver's seat (even in the sporty one). When I test drove the cars.. it just felt more 'right'. And the cars were more fun to drive.
But, when the wife ends up needing a new vehicle, she will consider an SUV.
We Americans have very short memories. When gas was between $3 to $4+ a gallon we couldn't get rid of our large SUVs and pick-up trucks fast enough. In some cases it was a case of Old Maid. I suspect that gas will rise to those levels again. When that happens we'll see auto manufacturers clamoring to reduce production. I remember when GM almost tanked when gas prices were high, because all of their top sellers were trucks and large SUVs.
The current SUV craze begs the question, "how did our parents do without?" We know how, and that it is absolutely possible to go without an SUV but modern advances dictate the new normal. As for the death of the sedan... Not so fast. There is still a huge market outside of the U.S. for non-SUVs.
Personally, we have an SUV because of all the reasons stated above (wife preference, kids, ride height, and visibility). In addition to that, I would like to keep an SUV in the garage for Home Depot runs.
We Americans have very short memories. When gas was between $3 to $4+ a gallon we couldn't get rid of our large SUVs and pick-up trucks fast enough. In some cases it was a case of Old Maid. I suspect that gas will rise to those levels again. When that happens we'll see auto manufacturers clamoring to reduce production. I remember when GM almost tanked when gas prices were high, because all of their top sellers were trucks and large SUVs.
The current SUV craze begs the question, "how did our parents do without?" We know how, and that it is absolutely possible to go without an SUV but modern advances dictate the new normal. As for the death of the sedan... Not so fast. There is still a huge market outside of the U.S. for non-SUVs.
Personally, we have an SUV because of all the reasons stated above (wife preference, kids, ride height, and visibility). In addition to that, I would like to keep an SUV in the garage for Home Depot runs.
We need to be careful when we say "SUV". The SUV you're referring to is the Chevy Tahoe or the Suburban. Those types of vehicles are not what is killing sedans. Those SUVs are inefficient and only useful in certain situations.
No, a 1971 Buick Sport Wagon which, I recently learned, was an impulsive purchase made by my mom without even consulting with my dad. Apparently, he just came home from work one day, and there it was sitting in the driveway....
That (navy blue) Sport Wagon was the first car I ever "worked on" (helped my dad change the air filter and spark plugs) and "drove," at the tender age of 8, when my dad let me back it out of the garage--under close supervision, of course.... Did I mention that safety standards were different back then?
"In 1970, the mid-sized Buick models were redesigned. From 1970 to 1972, the Sport Wagon became a deluxe trim version of the similar, less expensive Buick Skylark wagon. The distinctive skylights were not offered and the Sport Wagons were now built on the 116-inch (2,946 mm) wheelbase shared with four-door sedans."
We need to be careful when we say "SUV". The SUV you're referring to is the Chevy Tahoe or the Suburban. Those types of vehicles are not what is killing sedans. Those SUVs are inefficient and only useful in certain situations.
I'd have to do the homework, but I'm almost sure that would be sedan buyers skip sedans altogether to by a Tahoe or Suburban (or Escalade). For these people it's not about practicality. It's about having the biggest SUV they can get. I believe what you are referring to is sensible car buyers that cross shop sedans with comparable CUVs. I imagine that that might be the bulk of the taking over of SUVs but that doesn't answer the question about why so many large SUVs and luxury SUVs are being introduced by auto manufacturers.
I'd have to do the homework, but I'm almost sure that would be sedan buyers skip sedans altogether to by a Tahoe or Suburban (or Escalade). For these people it's not about practicality. It's about having the biggest SUV they can get. I believe what you are referring to is sensible car buyers that cross shop sedans with comparable CUVs. I imagine that that might be the bulk of the taking over of SUVs but that doesn't answer the question about why so many large SUVs and luxury SUVs are being introduced by auto manufacturers.
My point is, the CR-V, CX-7, Subaru Forester are what are killing Sedans. Those cars are economical enough that price of oil won't drive their popularity up or down.
My point is, the CR-V, CX-7, Subaru Forester are what are killing Sedans. Those cars are economical enough that price of oil won't drive their popularity up or down.
Lmao well not the CX-7 haha. That thing was a terrible gas guzzling failure. But you are correct. There is a distinction here, all crossovers are SUV's, but not all SUV's are crossovers.
Some current compact SUV's are doing VERY well on fuel economy and also have a lot of space, the extra ground clearance, decent capability in deep snow and even light duty off-roading, lastly added comfort/safety. If you get hit by a taller vehicle, the bumper is more likely to hit you lower in an SUV vs a car.
I have only ever owned SUV's (9 so far...HOLY SHIT didn't realize) and I don't think I will ever buy a car (unless it be a weekend sport car). I think SUV's get a lot of hate sometimes but they really do serve many purposes.
Lmao well not the CX-7 haha. That thing was a terrible gas guzzling failure. But you are correct. There is a distinction here, all crossovers are SUV's, but not all SUV's are crossovers.
Some current compact SUV's are doing VERY well on fuel economy and also have a lot of space, the extra ground clearance, decent capability in deep snow and even light duty off-roading, lastly added comfort/safety. If you get hit by a taller vehicle, the bumper is more likely to hit you lower in an SUV vs a car.
I have only ever owned SUV's (9 so far...HOLY SHIT didn't realize) and I don't think I will ever buy a car (unless it be a weekend sport car). I think SUV's get a lot of hate sometimes but they really do serve many purposes.
Lol. I pulled a number out of nowhere for the Mazda. We tested it a few years back but I'm not much of a fan. And crossovers are a lot more likely to be oil price resistant. Thanks for adding sense to my post.
The new "high-riding cars with cladding," huh? Hmmm. I know folks like 'em, but .... ugh. Just. Ugh. What ever happened to the value of a low-CG?
With exception of the Rav4 and Escape, those are all in the sub-compact SUV category and just like sub-compact cars they tend to look ugly as hell because they are too small to have nice proportions.
You can't forget things like the Cayenne and Touareg are also crossovers yet they can go really deep off road, tow 7700 pounds, and still acheive 30+ MPG in diesel trim. It's like having your cake and eating it too.
Im a both person. I like both and have both. They(suv) (for people with a family, and live in areas that see 4 seasons) are very practical. The added space, ground clearance, better visibility, and in most cases now ride are a big plus, and a large advantage over sedans for most. Gas prices while sucked when they were high i just chalked up to life and accepted it as a necessary evil for having the things i wanted out of a vehicle. Personally having kids in carseats really takes sedans out of the equation for me (other than the short in town drives) being 6'5 i either have to sit on the steering wheel or crush their legs. Having a boat, snowmobile trailer for winter activities that i need to pull, along with the family i needed an suv. There are many out there that simply buy them as a status symbol. I know a few myself that have no family, recreational toys, etc.. yet both have a large suv. to each their own.
and I doubt gasoline prices will hit $5 a gallon again.
(source: i work in Oil&Gas, in the upstream exploration part.)
with CUV's and technology for better fuel mileage, these small crossovers which are considered suv's arent going anywhere
i live in Texas, where SUV's and trucks are rampant..However, I have not seen an explosion of BIG suv's...an occasional Denali...or escalade...but those are far and few..
Last edited by justnspace; 04-17-2017 at 08:13 AM.
I've rented a Ford Excursion for a trip with my cousins. The cargo area is small for it's size. The SUV's do not have the cargo area are those old station wagons from the 80's.
Originally Posted by godfather2
i rock climb, hike, cycle, and camp like a fiend ... therefore suv makes the most sense.
I wasn't a fan of SUVs until I got a FX35, but that's more of a jacked up wagon with no trunk space what so ever and pretty much completely useless except for city driving, but I think it looks cool so I bought it
My CTS-V doesn't have a LOT of room, although I fit some chairs and end table, loads of plants and a bunch of odds and ends in it this weekend...could have put a kayak on the roof and bike rack on the back too...
I consider selling it to turn a little profit and go buy an older Suburban cash...but then if I'm gonna get 12 mpg, I think I'll be mad for not having the fun I'm having now, even if I lose the payment.
That said, 08-11 MDX is on my list of other potential next vehicles I could buy cash...but again, maybe 15mpg and not in the CTS-V Wagon anymore makes me want to cry very hot tears. :'(
if you really wanna piss a wagon owner off, call it an SUV (right FJoe? )
Need and Want are different. I don't think most people NEED an SUV. We had an 85 accord when I was a kid and drove across country in that thing when we moved to California. It was fine and got the job done. Plenty of road trips in that "Tiny Sedan". We got everything we needed in that trunk. This was both parents and my sister. Unless you have 3+ kids there really is no Need for these SUV's.
Yeah, agreed...I always remember my mother trading in her recently repaired dodge caravan for a 1990 new civic si...we were 11 and 8, my sister and I and had to climb over the seat to get in the back the entire time she owned it...we made it work, never felt like we needed more space.
Yeah, agreed...I always remember my mother trading in her recently repaired dodge caravan for a 1990 new civic si...we were 11 and 8, my sister and I and had to climb over the seat to get in the back the entire time she owned it...we made it work, never felt like we needed more space.
The European mentality, I guess...less is more...
It's got nothing to do with euro mentality. I think people in general during those days just put up with shit a lot better. If you could afford a small sedan (mostly RWD back then) you would put bags of sand in the trunk for winter traction and come hell or highwater you were going to stuff your family of 5 into what is considered a compact sedan these days and go on a cross country road trip. I was born at a later point in time than my siblings so the minivan was the king at that time and we always had minivans up until about the mid 2000's where my Dad started buying SUV's.
Dad loves his SUV's because he says it is easier to get in and out of and gets back pain from driving in cars apparently. He also says he hates having to duck down to get in and how difficult it is to get out of a car when it is parked on a driveway with an incline. Lmao I admit to the hard to get out on an inclined driveway part, I really have a lot of difficulty with that lmao.
04-13-2017, 04:00 PM
Hegemonic SUVs, or the Death Watch of the Mid-Sized Sedan Continues
to each their own.
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