Loco

You realize all these cars have plastic interiors, right?

FastAcura

I've seen the the interiors of both, and the TL is better built. Sorry, but the interiors of domestics don't appeal to me. I like the C6 and GTO interiors, but in these cars you pay to go fast.

You're not really gonna take a charger around a race track anyway, so RWD vs FWD isn't really an issue here. In fact, it's gonna be nicer owning a TL in the snow.

And this interior is nicer than the one of the Charger. And I can't believe you're arguing that the build quality of the charger is the same as the TL.

Loco

Then why are there so many rattle complaints?


I should as hell would take it to the track.

I can't believe you're twisting my post around to suit you're already lame argument.


I know what the interiors are all like. I've driven TLs & a GTO & sat in a Charger (driving that next week). Don't get me wrong, I prefer the interior of the TL too, but lets not be ignorant about other cars.

FastAcura

I'm not ignorant about other cars. I like some domestics too, but a 2 ton car with a big engine doesn't appeal to me at all. I woudln't even be suprised if the TL with the 6 speed beat it around a track. Does the charger even come with a manual?

Loco

No, I believe it's only the 5 speed auto w/manual shift capability.

It has pretty much almost the same options as a TL. Navi, climate control, etc etc

Doom878

Have they ever matched that engine to a manual?

kosh2258

I, for one, am staying as far away from "domestic" iron as I can, especially anything DCX.

GM, with their Employee Discount program, has taken the automotive equivalent of the nuclear option.

I don't think for one moment that they're going to be able to walk away from this path. They've locked themselves in to selling at these prices and they're going to be forced to figure out how to operate on a lot thinner margins than they have been. They may pump up their sales volume to offset some of the margin loss, but that still doesn't get them out of the fundamental problem they face.

The thing is, GM is going to force both Ford and DCX to follow them or both risk losing market share neither can afford to give up.

I personally think, media hype and bull$__t not withstanding, that DCX is skating on a lot thinner ice than people realize. Their little "we're as American as apple pie" dog and pony show in DC a couple weeks ago wasn't just for the fun of it. They're softening up the pols for something with dollar signs attached, you can bet on it.

I just hope Toyota, Honda and Nissan can stay above this price war that GM has started, because if they can't then the resale of our cars is going to take a hit, and I sure don't want to see happen.

Beltfed

And its fun whipping a FWD torque steer central car around corners? Who cares, If I had to have a sedan......I'll go with the RWD 425hp Dodge thanks.

Are you a car enthusiast or a dash stroker? The TL is more polished, but don't come off like its a Bentley.

The Charger is getting very good reviews by the way and I don't think the SRT-8 has been tested yet.

AcuraFan

Sorry Belt, you're starting to sound like your 16. "Forget well built luxury cars, I want to drive recklessly." :P

Beltfed

What the fuck are you talking about? Were you following the discussion?

FastAcura

That's the beauty about having OPINIONS! You get what you pay for. If you buy power, you will most likely sacrifice in the luxury department. They have to cut costs somewhere.

And no, noone wants to whipp a FWD car around corners, but please don't act as if FWD has SUCH a disadvantage when the other car weighs over 2 tons! Not exactly a handling dream.

Beltfed

I don't know how FWD is an advantage on any peformance oriented sport sedan.

That's why the platform is going the way of the Dodo bird on premium cars (Cadillac Deville aside).

FastAcura

I didn't say that FWD would have an advantage, but when put up against a 4000+ car, the difference won't be huge.

Chopsie

Has a damn fine interior for a Pontiac

They don't have as many as people make it out to be, and if the rattle complaints are coming from the people who have 3 fifteen inch subs in their trunks, then the complaint is discounted.

Fast Acura, to speak of handling, I don't think think anyone is AutoXing the TL or the Charger, so in terms of handling, who gives a damn. The Charger is geared more towards straight line performance, I don't think they are even going to throw handling out as a "Eye catching" point.

FastAcura

Exactly the point I was trying to make. Someone started talking about FWD and torque steer, so I was pretty amazed that they would compare handling of the Charger to the TL when neither of them can probably handle very well.

AcuraFan

Geez, settle down. I was joking with you.

hank1105

Wow, didn't think I would get so many replies. I haven't seen the actual interior of the GTO, besides the pics, but I must say the Dodge Charger interior really isn't that bad at all. One thing is that you feel like you are driving a big car, but steering seemed to be right on. Again I am not a professional driver and I sure as hell didn't thrash the gas or brakes that much, but still, it was a good drive. Let me put it this way, the car I am turning in off lease is a Pontiac GTP, the Charger felt way better to drive, just the handling aspect, BUT the TL felt better then the charger, although I didn't feel any torque steer when driving the TL.

One other item I forgot to mention, the exhaust sounds wicked cool when flooring the gas. The Daytona Charger should be sick, although they are asking $5,000 above list.

Please understand this is just my opinion and I don't claim to be an expert by any means.

Hank

fast-tl

Good review, but your wife's logic is faulty considering the vehicles are similarly priced, wouldn't you say? If both vehicles require the same means for acquisition, either vehicle owner could be equally well off. Adn we forget that the Charger and 300 both use a Mercedes E-class tranny behind the Hemi, as well as a Mercedes-derived suspension.

fast-tl

go to autos.msn.com and price it out. The V8 with "interior goodies" prices out very near the TL.

**Thou shalt research BEFORE you post! 2006 Charger pricing below:**


Selected Options:
Protection Group $590
Uconnect Hands-Free Communication $360
Electronics Convenience Group $630
Sirius Satellite Radio $195
AM/FM Radio 6-Disc and GPS Navigation $1,895
Power Sunroof $950
Total $34,615

hank1105

Hey I never said her logic was on the money She is pregnant with twins and her brain cells aren't firing on all cylinders.

Although I still consider the Acura more luxary then a Dodge any day.

fast-tl

Now THAT I can agree with.

Doom878

Wouldn't there be torque steer off a dig on a FWD car? I've never driven a torque-happy FWD car but from my understanding it would pull to a side. That's in everyday use too.

Chopsie

read Beltfed's Warning label

:shoots you on site with very large gun :

kosh2258

If you're restricting your evaluation to initial purchase, perhaps. But what about cost of ownership over time?

To get the total cost of ownership into focus a buyer needs to look at things like depreciation and ongoing operating costs. That's where the TL will end up looking better because it will depreciate far less and will be less expensive to operate than the Dodge.
Contrary to any perceptions Chrysler may try to create, the Hemi is anything but a frugal engine. Historically, Chrysler products have demonstrated lousy value retention.

Doom878

Only thing I hate about the HEMI is it murders gas.

AcuraFan

What? That he's a mega moderator? I didn't know that meant you lose your sense of humor.

CLpower

it's not bad, plus it only runs on 4 cyl while cruising

Doom878

You're right. The regular HEMI is EPA rated at 17/25. Most of the reviews I read are of spirited driving which yield mileage in the teens. However the SRT8 is rated at 14/19 which is too dang low. Obviously MPG is a little factor in this group of cars, but at least the GTO offers excellent HWY mileage.

chevyjase

Hemi is only the heads and by the way my 82 escort had a Hemi head on it.

They stop making anything good from dodge in the early 70's it is time to let go of the old days and let the charger remain the car it was. What's next the Cuda or the Demon. The days of cheap gas and gas guzzling big blocks are over.

Technology has advanced and so should the automotive industry. Let me guess sales in time for the new DUKES OF HAZZARD movie, what a suprise

Chopsie

Joke/Joke

Belt is a gun collector, he has a pic around here of him playing with one of his toys

Doom878

I know.

heyitsme

In the end, it just shows her knowledge of cars in general, which ends up showing her "ignorance ". Whether a charger rt/daytona ends up falling apart in 5 yrs or being solid as a rock in 5yrs doesn't seperate in from Acura at all as far as cash out of pocket on day 1 from the consumer.

I'm not sure whats worse, the wife saying it, or the husband repeating it.

heyitsme

How exactly are you calculating the costs of ownership of a new dodge under new ownership? You don't even know how popular the car will be which will dictate resale. If anything I remember the 04 tl being included in a transmission recall, Acura/Honda is far from perfect- well we all know now that Acura is less perfect than Honda after the recent quality results.

M TYPE X

Charger and GTO are both nice if you want a large, powerful sedan or a sleek coupe with a lot of power. People looking for a two-door or a luxurious interior on a large DCX car will have to pay Mercedes money for the Mercedes that they want. And no, the interior on the Pontiac GTO isn't all that great, but it's not bad either. The plan to put hood scoops and crap all over the clean design sucks.

njzprettyboy

the acura tl is not a well built luxury sedan. its a near luxury sedan. well built...well thats up to you. the trannies seem to say otherwise...

also, the GTO is a hot car...there are many supporters of it on this forum...surprised to see not as many people have bought those as opposed to g35/350z

AcuraFan

Yeah, the GTO has many supporters. But as far as why it doesn't sell as well as the 350Z...it's because the GTO is bland. Pontiac had to go overboard on the HP to try to get people excited. But I don't think it's working.

youngTL

Excuse me! I knew what I was talking about and I know how much money the charger is. It comes out to $45,945.00 CDN when I priced it out with those options on the Canadian website (but WITHOUT the satellite radio, which we can't get here).

2006 Dodge Magnum R/T


Base MSRP: 38,050.00
Options: 6,595.00
Destination: 1,200.00
A/C Excise Tax: 100.00
Sub Total*: $45,945.00

Radio - AM/FM with Integrated Display
$2,895.00
Navigation System with GPS

UConnect(TM) Hands-Free Communication
$295.00

Convenience Group II
$935.00
Air Cond ATC with Dual Zone Control
Seats - Heated Front
Pedals - Power Adjustable
Seats - Power Front, Driver/Passenger

Electronics Convenience Group
$765.00
Instrument Cluster with Display Screen
Security Alarm
Audio Controls - Steering Wheel-Mounted
Gauge - Temperature & Compass
Traveler/Mini Trip Computer
Garage Door Opener - Universal
Electronic Vehicle Information Centre


Protection Group
$655.00
Air Filtering
Tires - P225/60R18 99T AST S/Sealing
Air Bag-Side Window Curtain,Frt & Rr
Air Bags - Side, Supplemental

Sunroof - Power
$1,050.00

And here's the TL that I want:

2005 Acura TL Dynamic Package with Navi:

MSRP: $45,300.00

Accessories: $0.00

Freight / PDI: $1200.00

Taxable Total: $46,500.00



So you see, just like you said the TL is priced similar. For me it's only $555 more. The only thing the Charger has is more hp/torque and power adjustable pedals. I sat it one, and I thought that was way too much money to pay for a car with a rather nasty interior. My first generation 2.5TL even blows it away (interior materials wise). I'm sure it performs good, but the interior turns me off so much I don't even care to test drive it. I don't think you understood what I meant when I said it costs too much money for what you get. I never said it was more expensive than the the TL. I just think it's so bad that I wouldn't pay any more than $34000 CANADIAN for it!

zeroday

charger was and is a redneck car. if you're into the redneck thing, go for it. the tl has class; comparing specs is pointless.

fast-tl

Your quote was:
"For the (lack of) interior goodies, I couldn't justify it."

To which I replied that it doesn't LACK interior goodies, practically all of the TL's equipment IS, in fact, available on the Charger. The Cahrger does not lack the interior goodies. Perhaps you meant to make a different point, and that is that for the price, you'd still rather have the TL. I was simply responding you what you actually typed, which was that the Charger lacked, was missing, did not have, the TL's interior goodnies, which is simply untrue. No offense intended, just trying to keep the facts straight.

fast-tl

Any facts you'd like to use to back up that claim, sir? I didn't know that the Mercedes transmission was a redneck piece, nor the Benz E-Class derived suspension, nevermind the fact the DaimlerChrysler is a German company. Perhaps you overlooked these things.