To start off, I like cars, fast cars... I am 18, and am employed and make 12k a year. I have had a 92 integra with N20 and also a 93 teg with N20, and my last car was a 94 3000gt VR4. I sold all of those cars and bought a 04 tl with Navi. However I miss racing and going to car shows. I am looking into selling my mom the tl and getting an 87 grand national. I know it is almost 20 years old, but the car is IMO a real sleeper, and looks great.


What do you think I should do, sell the tl and get a rare car and rebuild the engine with forged rods/pistons to run low 11's to high 10's at the track, or just keep the tl?

 

So if you sell the TL you're going to be driving a drag car everyday? Not a good idea IMO.

 

A Grand National as a daily driver in NJ? WOW ... with gas prices the way they are ... and dealing with 20 yr old tech RWD in the winter? Be sure to have a good set of winter tires if you decide to pull the trigger on that deal.

 

Looking for your 5th car at 18? My advice would be to sell the TL, buy a used Civic and start banking your paycheck. Or just feep the TL, I wouldn't drive that everyday if I were you.

 

And if you like to take you car to the track, save up and modify your Civic as you go along and make it into a semi-track/daily car?

 

Sounds like a perfect idea, go for it.

 

Wrx?

 

If a 3000GT VR4 doesn't quite do it then I'm not sure what does!

Ever considered a Supra. A decade newer than the Grand National with lots of potential. Looks good, and I'm sure its more reliable.

 

Ok, I took my 94 vr4 to the track after I installed stillen dp w/no cats, k&n intake, mbc@15 psi, race gas, fidanza 10lb flywheel, ACT 2800lb clutch, and the best time I got was 13.476 @100.72 mph with a 1.8 60 foot. The 3000gt's are very expensive as I found out that the trans was "non serviceable" and to fix a broken (completly broken after the synchros went) cost me $1900. I dont know why everyone says the vr is a fast car, maybe something was wrong with it, although it was fun in the snow, that thing was going through snow drifts with snow coming over the hood.

EDIT: the vr4 had a hotwired fuelpump, and got only 9-11 mpg when I drove it

 

Forgot to mention that I will mostlikely buy a $400 honda beater for the winter and rain.

 

I always assumed the VR were heavy pigs.

 

The grand national is a relic. No tech. It wasn't even comfortable back when it came out. Your really going to give up the goodies the TL has for this POS? It is a POS, lets be real. With a lot of $$ it can be made fast, but that is it. The $$ you'd sinkl into that car you may want to throw a SC on the TL.

 

Yes they are, but fun as hell in the rain and snow, you could pull out in front of anyone sideways and it always steered out of it. I had some guy in a ford f250 cut me off on rt78 in the snow, he took the exit that I was going to take. With 2" of snow on the road I watched the boost go to 15, and kinda drifted around the corner and cut him off. I wish the tl was AWD and all-wheel-steering.
.

 

It is most def. a sleeper. You pull up to it, with your SC'ed tl/ evo/ corvette and laugh. As soon as the light turns green, the GN just whooped your ass. My dads new c6 z06 only runs 11.9 at the track, so a worked GN would cost about $75k less and be faster.

 

A Grand National a sleeper?

 

What do you mean? To have an old car look stock that is fucking faster than new vipers and the new vettes, all without looking fast.

 

The Grand National will be a collectible car in 20 years, just like the Hemi 'Cudas and Boss 429's are today. Forget about banking your paycheck. Buy this car, stick it in the garage, and go to college.

 

A sleeper is a car that no one expects to be fast. everyone knows a GN is fast, therefore even though it looks boring it is still not a sleeper.

IMO cars that go fast in a stright line are fun, but cars that can turn are more fun, and it isn't worth sacrificing lux, handling, build quality, practicality just for a 20 year old GN that can do an intense 1/4 mile, what is this the fast and the furious? Do you live your life 1/4 mile at a time? Not to mention what you will be driving around 99% of the time will be a significant downgrade from your TL in every way.

 

 

The only people who think the Grand National is a sleeper are those know NOTHING about cars (i.e.: ricers, etc,...)

 

yeah gn's will be big money classics 20 years from now...i'm with speedy cop it and head off to college

 

Well, yes I forgot to mention I do live my life 1/4 mile at a time . Everyone in my family is into cars, and who has the fastest. My sister and her evo, who runs 12.5 on a flash and 27lbs of boost, her boyfriend who owns TurboTrix in Edison NJ, my dad with the new z06. You think some 16yo kids in their honda with a cf hood and slammed on the ground would not race the GN, because, you know JUST ALL GN's RUN 10-11 second 1/4 mile times !

 

Actually im going to be a cop, so while being a cop, I will cop the gn. I cant afford both the GN and the tl, I still owe 6,500 on the tl.

 

I'm not sure what type of image the grand nation portrayed 20 years ago, but I'll take it one step further than Fuzzy.

If you're driving a grand national now, you are driving a POS and your social status has just been demoted to white trash.

 

Since when can "white trash" afford a gn? How can you call a collectors car a POS? Lets just see what people will think of your car in 20 years, how out of date it is and just how much you will have to pay someone to take it away

 

sounds like you already made your mind up.

 

Ever own one? I've owned four. I still own the one I purchased new in 86'. Comfortable? I find my 86' more comfortable than my Accord six speed. POS? A lot of money to go fast? C16, a chip, and slicks you're in the twelves. No tech? In 1986 the car was routinely tested to run 0-60 in 4.9 seconds. With a turbo-charged, intercooled, distributor-less, and fuel injected V6. Twenty years ago. My stage 2 ran routinely low tens with an investment, not including car, for slightly over twenty thousand. I suggest you spend some time doing a little research before you decide to offer your someone limited opinion on these cars.

My 86', currently with less than 10 000 miles.



Terry

 

Really? As a graduate school educated individual who owns his own business I've never really felt "white trash" driving my Grand Nationals throughout the years. It seems as if the owners of expensive domestic or european automobiles who routinely ask if my 86' is for sale the rare time it is street driven feel otherwise as well.

Terry

 

I admit I'm somewhat biased having owned four GN's since 1986, but I'm sure you would enjoy it very much. It's best, however, to do as much research on these cars as you can before you purchase one. At twenty years old, these cars have gone in three general directions. One, race cars. Very modified sub ten second race cars. Secondly, a general state of disrepair. Many could afford the car, but not the upkeep. And thirdly, pristine low mileage example. These cars are the most desirable, but are becoming very expensive. My 86' is currently appraised close to three times what I paid for in new in 86'. They will continue to climb in value.

The GN's also have a few odd quirks. The engines were well before their time. Even today they have motor technology not entirely embraced by new cars. The head of the program in the mid-eighties was actually the head of the defunct Buick Indy program. They constantly need to be in a proper state of tune. No less than seven sensors control the engine management. The cars have coil packs instead of distributors. And of course the turbo charger itself requires routine care. Because of the extremely low compression ratio to allow the massive amounts of boost the turbo-charging system created the braking system is also of a different nature and is very expensive to repair. Because of the low compression the car's brakes were servo assisted and opposed to vacuum assist. Parts are no longer available.

Several of the trim pieces are no longer available, making restoration somewhat difficult. Hard top and T-roof cars alike often cracked the rear pillars due to twisting because to the torque. The transmissions often puked their fluids not being able to handle the engine's power. Not trying to discourage you, but its best you realize what you are getting into. BUT if its running correctly, nothing beats the feeling of being pushed into the seat as the world gets yanked backwards while the rear wheels are trying to push themselves into the front of the rear fenders. Low twelves are yours for less than $500.00. High elevens for $1000.00. And beyond.

Have you ever considered a regular T-type or Turbo Limited? Same powertrain, just not the sinister looks. You mentioned the 87', but the 86' has the same intercooled powertrain. The 84' and 85' were hot air cars, and were not nearly as fast.

If you like, contact me privately if you want any other information.

Terry

 

I say you ask that guy who owned four GNs. He would know better than nearly everyone on these forums at least, seeing as how he's had GNs for 20+ years. Now a GNX, that would be bad ass.

To me its a sleeper car. I know that its capable of sub-12s with few modifications but I still would say that a sleeper car because less than 5% of the general population know what its capable of. Some even consider TLs to be sleepers.

 

In all likelihood, less the 5% of 2G TL owners know the difference between the 3.2TL and 3.2TL Type S. So, 95% of these owners would likely see the TL-S as a sleeper. (My neighbor traded up his 99 TL for an 03 TL-S because it had lower miles and nicer/bigger wheels.)

Back on topic (and again), the GN/T-Type/GNX are likely sleepers to those who are not familiar with the tuner scene. When they were first published, Turbo magazine constantly featured the Grand National....every issue: GN this, GN that.

Sidenote: Although only ~1,500 were produced, the 89 Turbo Trans Am features the same motor as the GN...then again, no one should be sleeping on any F-body. ...too much history there.

 

I think by tech he meant things like bluetooth, mem seats, navigation, xenon's, surr. sound stereo...ect...ect....

 

To me a sleeper is a turbo dodge minivan or a ford pinto w/ a 2.3L merkur turbo motor in it

I've known (since the 80's) not to mess with any Black G-body's on the street

 

i would say they are sleepers only to the people who arent worth racing... great cars, if only buick created a modern version...

 

[QUOTE=ubnpast]My sister and her evo, who runs 12.5 on a flash and 27lbs of boost, her boyfriend who owns TurboTrix in Edison NJ QUOTE]


Owns turbotrix? shhhhhyt i wish i had a sister that he boyfriend owned that shop... i've heard alot and seen alot of nice turbo setups come out that shop...
if i was 18 and i had the oppurtunity to get a GN ill defin jump on that...

1 sleeper and 1 beater, perfect setup

 

Ahhh, the mighty GNX. The fabled 547. During the last few years a few have been brought up to Canada. I see a few trading hands from time to time around the six figure mark. If only we knew..................

The GNX was a modified GN. Most of the work was performed by ASC. Reworked PROM and turbo-charger, steamroller tires, modified suspension, Stewart-Warner instrumentation, and a few subtle modify modifications. Each was numbered 1-547. Out of the box it ran 0-60 in 4.6 seconds. All were sold before actual production even started.

Terry

 

I think you're right. People who don't know about them consider them to be just an old Buick. Or, shudder, an old Monte Carlo or Grand Prix. But then there are the others. It's amazing the amount of people who know of them and their history. Old and young alike. When I purchased my 86' twenty years ago everybody wanted to race it. Now it seems as if every time it sits at a stoplight people are asking questions or on occasions following me home and asking if I want to sell it. The others are gone, but I'll continue to keep my 86'. Unfortunately it is rarely driven, and no more than a few hundred miles each year. And I still grin like an idiot whenever I do.

I don't think Buick will ever produce a modern version. I'm not sure even if they did the car would have same sort of impact it did in the late eighties. I still remember reading the "Car and Driver" article in late 1985 testing an 86' model and commenting how nothing, American or European, came close to its acceleration. it was a brief flicker on the automotive landscape. A bastard child of an ancient chassis and ultra modern race inspired powertrain, and then it was all over.

Terry

 

Buick's Regal GS (97-04) is a sleeper when modded. I have seen a few of those running 12s at the track, as well as its W body counterparts (Grand Prix GTP/Monte Carlo SS/Impala SS).

 

So I guess if your goal is to feel good about racing 16 year olds in the street, umm go for it. I promise that 99% of the people at a 1/4 mile track are going to know the deal is with the GN. And you know you are only 2 years away from 16 and had a riced out Japanese import so are you talking about yourself??

It sounds like you have made up your mind, so why post a thread called "which car should I get" when you already know what you want and aren't receptive to other ideas?

Anyway, I dont think I can take someone seriously if they say this:

It's clear that this is the only thing you are interested in, so I'd say the GN is right for you.

 

my father has a 98 Regal GS, that thing is fast as hell, pulls all the way to 110 or so then the govenor kicks in

but with a chip and pulley i have been told you can get the car up to 280Hp/ 300lbs-ft or something