bigman

I have driven my trans am on 8 hour drives and my wife and I were very comfy. Insurance on My Trans Am was 400 less for the year than my TL, for full coverage. And what little things go wrong? Have you ever owned a 98-02 F body? They are very well built cars. It's guys like you that give the F bodies a bad name. You know nothing about the car and base your knowledge on past cars and what you heard from other morons. Going by your way of thinking, i should never buy an Acura again, considering the 4 trannies i replaced in my TL, or was that just one of the little things? I love knowing that i can have a 10 sec car that can still pull high 20's mpg when cruising on the highway.

YeuEmMaiMai

lol don't get your panties in a bunch....makes you sound like a girl.....

guys like me that give the car a bad name? I believe that the overall reliability (or lack thereof) does that....

know nothing about the car? my cousin had SEVERAL F body cars and they all were unreliable pos (immobilizer problems, suspension parts wearing out, excessive rattles, allignment would not last, transmission, rearview mirrors that would fall of the windshield when it got to hot outsie, etc)

so do us all a favor and quit acting like an ass ok?

bigman

#1, you havent been here long enough to tell me to act like anything.
#2 I pull my front wheels off the ground at the track and beat the shit outta her on the street, and other Acuraziners were impressed with how stout the car is has less rattles and squeeks than some of there cars, my suspension was absolutely fine for a 98 until i upgraded it and sold it to a friend who is still happy with it, and my tranny is running strong as hell. I have driven my car and let it sit in hot humid New York summers and never had a mirror problem. It sounds like you are making shit up, especially when the 4L60 transmission is known for being a solid unit. More people are building them up, over th400 and 700R4's so they can maintain overdrive. And i have heard of a few imobilizeer problems, but that was with people before the 98 f bods. My 99 TL had key problems as well. I would put the key in and the car would not start, or the alarm box would not open the doors. Either your cousins had pre 98's which were still built solid, or you are just lying your ass off. And for god's sake please dont tell me they rocked irocs and shit from the early 90's, because those cars were nothing like the newr one's. Like i said, visit any fbody site, and like any automotive enthusiast site, you will find cars with problems, but the Fbody is a solid car, and still to this day is a solid performer. Save for the Cobras, the mustang still has not caught up in power. Listen you are talking to a guy that had an 85Z28, a96 LT1 Z28, and a 98 Trans Am. The 85 was typical rattle box with it's problems, the 96 was still a rattler, but had a strong motor with tons of torque, and the 98 has been bulletproof. Whn i let Rondog from ROn Jon Wheels, drive my car he had a smile from ear to ear. He was impressed with the power, handling and overall feel. I admit it's no CL when it comes to quality, but it's not the shitbox you made mention of.

fast-tl

For all former F-body oweners, I say, THANK YOU! You are exactly right. I didn't have time to reply last night, but my Z28 was solid as a rock, well built, dependable (and GM had free loaners for the few service visits.) GM bashers don't realize that you can't build a junker when you're putting that kind of power behind it, topping out at 160. You can't build a junker around a Corvette motor.
Could they be abused and TURNED to junk? sure, as could any car. Thanks bigman!

bigman

Anytime . The problem with fbodies is that younger kids are getting their hands on them and messing them up badly. Thank God their prices are going up a little i the used car markets.

offset_98

I never had a problem with My '02 F-body. Never. I miss that car to this day.

YeuEmMaiMai

#1 when you act like an idiot then I can tell you not to........
#2 so what does that have to do with what I said? so you can lift your tires off of the ground...big deal....thats like saying "My car can go 150mph" kinda useless in the grand scheme of things.....

You like your Camaro? good I am happy for you but anyone who gets their panties in a bunch about another person having a different experience with a car is clearly immature

bigman

#1 I really think you should keep your mouth shut before you piss off the elders. And me saying that guys like you give F bods a bad name, was not immature nor idiot like. And you generalizing all F bodies based on "you cousin's friends, sister's father's car" or whatever, is what makes us owners mad. Would you like it if because my one TL had tranny problems, I bashed every TL and CL? I dont think you would.
#2 The point i am trying to make by saying i can lift my tires off the ground is that even with my repeated track passes and front end slamming back to earth, my suspension, mirror , and other components have not failed, and it is a 98 with high miles. Are you that stupid that you can't see where someone is coming from? Oh yeah, "Big Deal" to me pulling my tires up, It is a big deal, when i pour blood, sweat and cut knuckles turning my own wrenches and modding my car. I earned the right to brag about pulling my tires up, i didnt buy it, it wasnt given to me, it was earned, so yeah i am proud.

6SPD

As a current TL-S owner, a former multiple F-Body owner, & a former 6 speed CL-S owner I gotta chime in here.

My ’95 LT1 Z28 auto was truly a great car. I owned it for 5 years & the only problems I ever had with it were two alternators going out. Nothing else. My other Z28 was a ’95 6 speed that I modified quite heavily -myself. It was fully loaded with leather & T-Tops etc, & I did a very mild 383 stroker motor setup. I built it to be very streetable, but it would run like a scalded ape when needed. It dyno’d @ ~345 HP at the wheels, but made ~380 TQ from 1500 to 5500 rpms. I also reworked all of the suspension & transmission and I NEVER had any problems with that car either. I launched it hard, drove it fast & aggressively but did not abuse it. It was a mid to high 12 second car on street tires, but I never got close to brining the front tires off the ground. To do that in a 4th gen F-Body is just downright sick & I applaud anyone who is making that kind of power --especially someone who turned their own wrenches on the car. Nice work BM!

My Acura’s on the other hand have not been nearly as enjoyable & their “overall reliability (or lack thereof)” makes Acura not even a blip on my radar for my next vehicle purchase.

My ’03 CL-S had its air conditioner go out with 6500 miles on the ODO. When you live in TX & have a black on black car A/C is a MUST. I didn't think the car handled well at all (pushed hard, poor braking, body roll) & to make any kind of power you had to be at ~5000 rpms or higher. I sold the car 3 months after I bought it.

My ’02 TL-S was a certified pre-owned Acura. The transmission went out last month (5 years since in service date) at 46,000 miles; the rotors were warped at 38,000 miles and the dealership experience is no were near “luxury” level of service.

While I owned two LT1 Camaros, I would pick up a nice condition 98-02 LS1 F-Body in a heartbeat over a CL-S if I was in the market or looking for a change. The SS/WS6/Firehawk packages are neat but like BM said, the base motors make basically the same power. I prefer the looks of the aforementioned cars over the standard/base look, but you will likely pay a premium for the looks & realize little to no performance benefits.

YeuEmMaiMai

wow someone is an internet tough guy....grow up...........what are you tring to prove by saying you are elder to me? You think just becuase you have been on forum a long time that gives you anything special.......you talk like you are 12........ARE YOU SURE THAT YOU ARE 25? OH MY you can wrench a car....big deal...........so can I and I have been doing far longer than you have.......

little boy has to cry becuase someone does not have the same opinion about a F body as he does.........

There is a reason that GM is about to loose their #1 spot to Toyota...I guess it has a lot to do with the quality cars that they have been building.....

CLpower

Yes, because toyota builds great cars

fast-tl

Uh, hello? http://yotarepair.com/Sludge_Zone.html

Let's end the pissing contest. You are bringing up 2nd hand info on F-bodies vs even more contradictory 1st hand accounts, including mine.

bigman

No one is being a tough guy, i dont need to do battle over the internet. And no one is crying, i am making far too much money these days and spending time with my beautiful daughter to worry about shedding tears over what some internet retard says. But i do have a problem with you bad mouthing the f bodies when never owning one. And GM as a whole has nothing to do with the Fbody. If GM is sooooo terrible, then why is the Z06 beating cars twice to triple the amunt of money in performance on the track. Guys like you will suck a Skylines dick because you saw it in a movie or played it in a game. And guys like you rag on cars that youve never driven or been in. Take a 6 spd Trans Am or Camaro out, or is it too much car for you? Try one out, you may actually like it. I like how i hit you with facts because i am an owner, while you come at me calling me names, a child and saying that i am crying. These are a few reasons why:

BM TA:




New motor, heads, cam, intake manifold and many many mods slowly being put together.










Friends from ls1 board:

offset_98

Stop the pain...Makes me miss the LS1 even more...

Ashburner

Here was my baby! 99 Camaro SS. In the second picture it is sitting in front of my house I bought at 20. In the last pic, you can see the sound system. It was all Sound Stream and Alpine pushing about 2,000 watts. It could scare the shit out of you. The car was awesome! Troublefree and fun as all hell. Notice the license plate frame- ahh, the good old days...

bigman

Awesome, my God i love the ZR-1 wheels on Camaros. I will never get rid of my TA.

vishnus11

TA's looks menacing, but some of the those Camaros are just I've often notice that the rear wheels of F-body camaros don't extend all the way out to the edge of the rear quarter panels, making it look pretty pathetic. Just a personal observation

EDIT: Noice TA bigman

bigman

All factory fbods come with high offset whees, causing the tucking. But thats nothing a lowr offset, 10.5 inch rear wheel with some 315's cant fix.

BustedJack

I can't read this thread. It would want to make me go out and buy an used SS.

good talk.

ShavedH22CL

I drove my Cousins SS 6 Speed and shit my self. She had 19inch wheels, Suspension, hurst shifter, 3 inch headers back, Cold air and a new ECU. I was driving it like a pussy and she says throw it in second and mat it, when i did that the rear end came out and when i gained control i was out like a fat kid in dodge ball!!!!!

bigman

Has anyone seen YeuEmMaiMai, since no one else shares his opinion, i think he finally decided to stick his tail between his legs and call it quits.

Well this thread got me going. Since i am putting a roll cage in the TA once the stroker motor is done, i am looking for another Silver TA to be a semi daily driver, while this one stays the weekend warrior. And to think, i said to myself, there is no way i am modding this car, it's fast enough.

jz-97-c7

i tried...the boss declined my request almost immediately

vishnus11

Let's not take it too far. YeuEmMaiMai simply expressed his personal observations regarding F-bodies, and its gonna take a whole lot more than a run of cars from 1998 - 2002 to change the perception that Camaros/TAs are rattling pieces of shit.

Even the 98-02s don't do anything for me. The rear wheels tucking inside the fender line makes the car look odd and half-assed. The flip up headlight units on TA's look like an afterthought as they stick above the surface of the hood and the laughable plasticy, pos interior and crappy sightlines leave something to be desired. My biggest beef however lies with the fact that the car appears to be more of a "fast" car than a "sports" car. All show and go in a straightline and nothing to offer in the corners. Granted, I must admit I've never driven in one, but have been passenger in a few, including one very recently at the autox. The driving technique was predictable, nail it the straight bits, and then wallow painfully slowly through the corners. You and other F-body owners say "or just throw on some subframe connectors, etc." or "put some low offset wheels with some 315's on the back" to cover up the ugly gap, but the fact remains, straight out of the box these cars have serious flaws that prevent them from being considered true sports car in my book.

The F-body's are decent cars for what they are, but they are by no means trouble free, quality products. I'm glad that you find yours bigman to be a troublefree, quality product, but I found the quality to be somewhat lackluster.

EDIT: Maybe the one I road in wasn't in tip-top shape, so I'll reserve final judgment on the driving dynamics till I actually drive one myself.

bigman

I have owned and been in too many to count, and just like any car, if it is not taken care of it will drive, sound, behave like shit. My TL blew transmissions like nothing, it rattled like hell, and it wasnt the only TL that did or does it. Every car has their faults, and just like the vette, for the price, no car had better performance than an f body. And so what the car's wheels tuck in. All the modded cars on this forum had fist sized wheel gaps and high offset, tucked in wheels as well. The point is we mod them and they look great. And as far as handling, what do you want, it is a solid axle car, just like the mustang/cobra, etc. Solid axle cars are not the best in the handling department. But if you think that subframe connectors, lower control arms, upper and lower a-arms, shocks/struts, springs, panhard bar, sways ect wont help the fbods handling then there is something wrong. And straight outta the box, there is nothing wrong with them. Shit straight outta the box, a z28 would hang with a Ferrari f355. As for build quality, i never said it was the best, yes the interior on the Camaro is cheap(pontiac has better materials), but you are buying a $25,000 sports car, what do you expect. And you cant compare 30 grand acura's interior with a gm product. And you know what i sat in an NSX today that had plastic crap everywhere and looked old as hell for a $90,000 sports car. Plus it's 290 horse motor wasnt that impressive either. But i still liked it. Not 90 grand liked it though. The fact of life is that handling doesnt mean shit on the street. You wont see most guys running on a twisty road. Thats why all the high speed races you see with supras and shit are all wide open highway racing while going straight. You think those guys care about handling, they care about pure power and getting the car past 150. Ive never been in a race with my car that i lost because of it's handling. If i wanted an auto x car, i would keep my fbod and get a miata +mod it. For the money i paid, the car is great quality. You cant be picky about body gaps, or cheap plastic for a car with great value and performance. If you want tight gaps and better plastic, get a vette. I mean seriously, now you are getting picky with the car. Bottom line, is that there are many 200,000 mile ls1 fbodies that see the track and run great. Your right, out the box, it's a straight line monster, and your right, the materials are not luxury grade, but the engine and performance, and looks are well worth it. And if tucked in wheels bother you, wheels and tires fix that, just like if you felt you acura looked like an SUV, a drop and wheels would help that too. And you make fun of the flip up lights, ummm last i checked the NSX's flip up lights stick past the hood too, whats your point. You really dont know what else negatice to say about the car, so you pick it's headlights and its plastic interior as it's faults. I personally think the firebirds headlights make it look bad ass and menacing. I respect your opinion and i know that the car is not the greatest thing in the world, but fact is that the fbody is shitted on by people that recall the 3rd gen cars. Or people that have been in abused cars. I would take anyone on this forum for a ride if they pmed me, just so i can show you how quiet the car is, how solid the suspension sounds. Hell i'll even take my buddies 100,000+ mile daily driver z28 out and show you what a well maintained one feels like. whatever.

Regarding you saying its gonna take more than a run of 98-02 to change people's perception of a car. Does that mean that people should think of Honda and Acura as a shit car company because trannies from 98-03 in most of their v-6 vehicles were ticking time bombs? No, they were still quality vehicles with unfotunate problems. Honda did the right thing and designed better cars and components. GM did the same. The 98-02 although looking very similar, is also very different than the car before it.

bigman

vishnus11, if you are ever in NY and feel like coming my way, i will let you drive my car, and my friends daily drive 100,000 mile car so you can see how a well maintained fbody drives.

Check out this video, this is why i love my car:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEz26YSUkSQ

bigman

more vids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEz26YSUkSQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHR_d...elated&search=

bigman

Sorry, this one is very entertaining as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhHgD_9Fok0

vishnus11

1. A Z28 won't "hang with a F355" on a track. Straightline, maybe briefly, till the F355 really begins to stretch its legs. Handling, braking, or any other performance benchmark - fuggedaboutit.

2. The plastic crap everywhere on the NSX would be the hand stitched leather dash. But each to his own. Your not alone in thinking that interior looks dated - many people have expressed that opinion. But there is a VERY clear differnce between dated, and quality. Hand-stitched leather is hand-stitched leather. POS GM plastic, is POS GM plastic.

3. And this is where we differ the most - you think that a real sports car is all about straightline speed. Puh-lease, gimme a break. What kind of idiot goes around driving 150mph on public roads. Not to mention the kind of skill that involves - even a two year old can nail the gas pedal in a auto TA and have it up to 150mph in no time. Maybe you live in some remote area of NY where massive, uncrowded straightaways are common, but I highly doubt that. Heck I live in KY which isn't too crowded, and even we don't have stretches or road where we can safely get up to more than 120mph, without endagering other drivers and losing our licences'.

Taking a corner is a matter of skill, finesse, balance, coordination, and a multitude of other things. Maybe I live KY where a fine backroad is no more than a few minutes away, but I'm in the Northeast pretty often, and even over there, a good twisty bit of road is far more common than an open, uncrowded straightaway.

Regardless a true sports car should have both, and the F-bodies don't, plan and simple.

4. I said flip up lights that pointedly and obviously stick above the hoodline. It was more of a reflection on the quality of the car or lack there of. Vettes had flip up headlights as well, but at least they were cleanly integrated into the design. But I agree, the price of the TA somewhat compensates for this.

5. You hit the nail on the head with perceptions. Camaros/TAs, especially all throughout late 70's/80's/early 90's were perceived to be, and were, large pieces of crap. Even though the 98-02's might be improved, its gonna take a whole lot more to change people's perceptions. In a similar vein, a run of bad tranny's from 98-03 will barely put a dent in Honda/Acura's reputation since their vehicles are historically known to be quality products. I'm not saying its excusable, just that people's perceptions are unlikely to change because of short term events. Last but not least, yes Honda/Acura and GM both accepted their mistakes and made necessary changes, but it sure took GM (and other domestic manufacturers) a lot longer, and their paying hard for it.

vishnus11

I might actually take you up on that. You feel very strongly about these cars, and unlike some of the useless e-trolls on this forum, you've thus far argued you point properly with facts. I'm always up in the northeast area, and I'll be sure to give you a buzz then

Can't wait to see/hear/feel/experience a 10sec TA

bigman

To argue your point on the F355, i was only speaking of straight line performance. And i have witness with my own eyes a z28 with a magnaflow muffler, hang with a 355 spyder on the highway till about 120, i was a passenger in the ferrari. The Fbody is not a sports car, i can live with that, but it doesnt try to be. It's a muscle car, plain and simple. It doesnt need to be a great handling car, thats what the vette is for. In the 60's and 70's going fast on the highway and from a light was all the rage, today, it still is. The NSX has plastic everywhere on the dash and cheap plastic at that. And i never said that a sports car is a car that goes fast in a straight line. Not once did i say that. I even said that the Fbodies have live axles and arent the best handlers, in no way, shape or form is that me saying that it's a sports car. And i understand the dynamics of track driving, i am not ignorant, nor a child, and have had track time in the past. And i live in westchester, where we have a mixture of open roads and city driven. Over here, the cars that come off the light, or run hard from a roll, rule the roost, although i tend to keep it on the track these days. And i take offense to you saying that a 2 year old can mash the gas and hit 120. Your right, anyone can hit 120 in an fbody, but the difference is that i can get down that track way faster than the person who just mashes the pedal and spins their way down it. The attitude of mashing the pedal and going might get you by in a front driver or rear driver with no torque, but try that in a car with close to 500 lb.ft. of torque to the rear wheels, and you will make a car capable of 10's-11's run 12's-13's. I have witnessed idiots at the track hit 15's in stock fbodies because of mashing the gas. Just like a sports car demands finesse and control when hitting turns at the track, a muscle car demands finesse and control when coming off the line hard. Drive a 4000 stalled auto with a 2.2 str, and you will see what i mean about finesse, and control. Like i said before, i extend my invitation to you. I'll throw on drag radials, take you to the track, and buy you some pizza and beer afterwards. But dont say i didnt warn you. After your hear my stroked motor screaming through my dumped true dual exhaust, and experience the power and surprisingly decent handling, you will forget all about the plastic, and any other thing that bothers ya. If i have to, i will change people's perception one person at a time. I love my car that much.

vishnus11

I feel very much the same about my car, and I applaud your effort to change common stereotypes and perceptions. All I can say is.... expect a PM from me sometime soon.

SanJoseRoller

lets bring this thread back on topic...

what are you looking for in the car? assuming that you have a bunch of bolt on parts and a coil over kit... i assume that you just want a cool performance car... i suggest you go out and test drive an F body and if it doesnt put a smile on your face when you step on the gas your a boring person.

IMHO... the CL-S isnt much of a car to really mod for performance compared to an F body... its a sporty accord with a Acura badge the F body offers alot if your looking for more in the performance aspect of cars and F bodies go a long way when it comes to performance mods...

The F body interior may be a bit out dated...
the handling might not feel like a ferrari...

but if your looking for a daily driver to do similar mods to like you are doing with the CL expect a REALLY FUN CAR to drive


some of you people bash the F bodies with crap like handling and auto X... the way i see it that arguement can go both ways... its different strokes for different folks... people like me and big man happen to like drag racing... and for those of you who ripp on drag racing like its an easy task with fast cars its obvious you dont have much experience with fast cars and drag racing...

bigman

You hit the nail on the head. Bottom line is that the Fbody with mods can give you supercar power, with daily driveability and reliability.

Doom878

I was thinking of leaving the Honda family and going LS with either an 04 GTO or maybe an 01-02 F-Body. I'm leaning towards the GTO given its sleeper looks (yes I know nobody likes the looks but I won't be tried by Civics anymore ). I've been in my friend's LS1 Camaro and as a passenger it's pretty uncomfortable. I'm sure if I drive, it'd be 10x better and the whiplash was great. From what I recall the GTO fit pretty good but it's been a while since I"ve been in one. How would you guys compare the 2 as far as drivability.

CLpower, can probably help me compare his old CL (more or less same interior as my 2000 Accord) to his GTO as far as drivability in traffic and comfort. I'm looking forward to the torque difference as my year's V6 has none so it's easier to drive in traffic with less effort. Yes I'm in bumper to bumper all morning and night.