gavriil

BMW will offer an F1-style gearshift on the face-lifted 3-series when it goes on sale early next year.

The new gearbox is a simplified version of the Sequential Manual Gearbox II just launched in the new M3. Drivers can change gear either by using paddles behind the steering wheel or with the flick of a lever.

The M3’s new system gives slicker shifts with no loss of performance or economy, and the version for the new 3-series should bring similar benefits.

Stefan Behr, of BMW’s M division, says that initially the new gearbox will be available on the more sporting versions of the 3-series, such as the 325i and 330i coupés.

The SMG will be offered in addition to the existing optional automatic gearbox, which costs about £1200, depending on the model. Behr says the lesser-powered 3-series’ gearbox option will be less complex than the M3’s £2400 version, which suggests a price of about £1800.

The gearbox will be shown for the first time at the Frankfurt Motor Show in September.


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Gabriel
CL Type S

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Time for ACURA to do something...

I feel that that my CLS wont be "competetive" in year or so....

I need a 6-sp SMG on my CLS 3.5, 300HP!

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Black, Ebony, 3.2 CL Type-S, NAV.
- 3M clear bra, by Stonguard (full front bumper, and side mirrors, and partial hood)
- Acura Spoiler, Moonroof visor
- Splash guards, Winter mats, Trunk liner
- Valentine V1 Radar Locator
- HELMS Service Manual
- PIAA 19169 road lamps
- 03/19/01: Injen Polished CAI
- 04/13/01: 235/40/18 NITTO 555 on 18x7.5, +45 offset, Koing Imagine in Silver with wheels locks

gavriil

I am sure Acura has an answer. But I dont see those paddles as very convinient. I prefer the sportshift action on the lever. Of course I am excluding all the technology behind the SMG. I am just talking ergonomicaly speaking.



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Gabriel
CL Type S

Nashua_Night_Hawk

" Flick of lever", is our version of SS stick, they got both.

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Black, Ebony, 3.2 CL Type-S, NAV.
- 3M clear bra, by Stonguard (full front bumper, and side mirrors, and partial hood)
- Acura Spoiler, Moonroof visor
- Splash guards, Winter mats, Trunk liner
- Valentine V1 Radar Locator
- HELMS Service Manual
- PIAA 19169 road lamps
- 03/19/01: Injen Polished CAI
- 04/13/01: 235/40/18 NITTO 555 on 18x7.5, +45 offset, Koing Imagine in Silver with wheels locks

alex2364

We need this for the CL! It's the best compromise between a auto and stick. It's a real stick with no torque converter but can also shift by itself!

soopa

They have both options.

I want a SMG badly.

If Acura doesnt answer... 330Ci SMG will be my next car.

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2001 Acura 3.2 CL Type-S
San Marino Red (Navigation)
PIAA 19173 Ion Yellow Fog Lights
Aftermarket Black Wood Trim Kit
Valentine 1

droideka

Are you kidding? Have you seen the paddles on the E46 M3? They are quite large and reside directly behind the wheel at the 10 and 2 positions. I don't see what could be better, ergonomically speaking. This isn't like the asinine and useless "E-shift" button on the Lexus vehicles. These are honest to god F1 style paddle shifters. What could be better than keeping both hands on the wheel at all times? Have you ever played the F355 challenge video game with the paddle shifters? It's incredible!

The SMG shifters DO NOT rotate with the wheel, but stay fixed to the column so that you don't get confused in a deep turn and hit the wrong shifter. There is a REASON that F1 went to this style of gear changes...


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'01 CL-S|Sundance Gold|Spoiler|35% Tint|Bridgestone Potenza RE730 225/45/17
a study in pimp daddy gold

gavriil

The reason why F1 went the paddle shifting way was because the steering wheel takes half a turn to turn the wheels 100%.

That makes paddles very ergonomic during racing.

For a car that goes a turn and a half or more turn the wheels it is a different story. I have driven the IS 300 and it was very inconvinient. I know it has no paddles but the position of the button is similar.

I also have driven the game you are refering to at Gameworks and that was the first time I saw how inconvinient the system is.

My personal preference is sportshift on the lever where our car has it.

Here is more proof from the world of racing which is closer to our cars. WRC. They use serial gear boxes but they leave the shifting done where the stick is. THe reason is because there is a TON of steering wheel turning during racing there and it takes more than a complete turn to turn the wheels locked.


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Gabriel
CL Type S

DtEW

I'll second gavriil on the IS300 E-shift observations. The E-shift buttons on the steering wheel are only useful if:

1. You're using them on the freeway and you want to downshift for a pass or want engine braking.

2. You're keeping one of your hands absolutely planted on the wheel a la Zaccone, which is not easy if you're sloppy or are adapting from shifty hands.

(Shifty hands seem to be popular here in the US, no doubt due to the influence of Bondurant schools. However, I do remember from my days in Taiwan that everyone used some variation of Zaccone. I would not be surprised if this was also the case in Japan and Europe.)

On the other hand, the countersteering of WRC-style drifting requires almost lock-to-lock, which is much more than what we use even in correcting big oversteer. Finally, you also need to keep in mind that many of WRX cars have relocated the shifter so that the ball resides about 8" toward the the centerline of the car from the 3/9 o'clock position of where your shifting hand would normally reside on the wheel. Obviously, there's still something to be said for reducing the distance between steering and shifting inputs.

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051/LP/SR/LD/HH

droideka

I guess I'm going to have to ask Tom2 for a membership pack to join your fan club.

BULLSHIT!!!. The *reason* F1 cars have gone to paddle shifters is because the cars kept getting faster and faster and drivers were missing shifts at 18,000 rpm and DESTROYING VERY expensive gear boxes on multi-million dollar cars.

Did you read what I wrote? The SMG paddle placement has NOTHING to do with the Lexus e-shift! The paddles are FIXED on the column.

Then you, sir, haven't the slightest clue as to how to drive properly. You DO NOT shift in the middle of a turn. Is that what you were trying to do? Shifting on a road coarse is very simple. WOT, BRAKE HARD, downshift BEFORE the turn, hit the APEX and power out as quickly as possible.

That's your preference and we leave it at that.

Serial? Don't you mean SEQUENTIAL???
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! You are so FULL OF SHIT! Didn't you do any research before deciding to post from your ass? Take a look at this WRC Toyota Corolla that has a sequential shifter on the column, much like several of the touring cars in the BTCC and ASTC series. I'll give you that the WRC cars do not employ paddles shifters (which I never implied) but rally racing has NOTHING in common with road racing save for the fact that the cars all have four wheels.

Over and OUT...

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'01 CL-S|Sundance Gold|Spoiler|35% Tint|Bridgestone Potenza RE730 225/45/17
a study in pimp daddy gold

[This message has been edited by droideka (edited 04-29-2001).]

gavriil

Droideka you really mean business man! Sorry for replying to your post. Geeee. Posting from my ass...wow...I wonder how long it took you to think of that.

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Gabriel
CL Type S

Bravo1

I will have to agree with droideka.. even though it looks like this thread is going to get out of hand

The paddle shift design is about as good as you can get. Now if you intend on making a downshift or two in the middle of a hairpin turn... then u might get a little busy with the hand movements... but u would be doing the same thing with a manual.

They switched to that design in Formula 1 because it could shift fast and more consistently than any human. I believe the systems are at a point that they could perform a shift in 0.0125 of a second. In racing getting shift of this fast is extremely important because of the high level of downforce and other factors will actually slow down the cars. So they need power as immediately. Also I wouldn't want to let go of the steering wheel in order to perform a shift. Especially at high G loads.

The Ferrari F355 and F360 both offer this system and it works great. The game in the arcade... (Ferrari F355 Challenge)... the paddles actually move with the steering wheel. I don't know how it would be if they couldn't move... but for everyday street driving it would seem to be more convenient.

I hope that more car manufactures make this option available, because i think the extra cost is worth it.

soopa

Well... we could argue this till the cows come home... BUT...

WHY?!

The SMG M3 allows you to shift by EITHER the steering paddles... OR by the stick... just like our SportShift.

So once you own a SMG equipped car... you choose how you drive it.

Im sure both configurations will come in handy at different times.

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2001 Acura 3.2 CL Type-S
San Marino Red (Navigation)
PIAA 19173 Ion Yellow Fog Lights
Aftermarket Black Wood Trim Kit
Valentine 1

droideka

You do understand why I jumped all over you, right? Because for the most part a majority of your posts are very informing and seem to be based in substantiated fact, but your replies to my arguments were way off base. I'd hate to see other members be mis-informed by one of your postings when clearly you had stepped out of your realm of understanding, as a lot of people here seem to look to you as gospel when it comes to all things automotive.

Sorry to be such a dick, but the "serial" gearbox just pushed me over the edge. Next time I'll just call you an ass-clown.


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'01 CL-S|Sundance Gold|Spoiler|35% Tint|Bridgestone Potenza RE730 225/45/17
a study in pimp daddy gold

deadlyCL-S

i dont want to be a copycat, but i already know my next car is either gonna be the 330 convertable, or an M3 if i am lucky...

you got great taste in cars!

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Acura 2001 CL Type S, (black on black)
Acura 1996 CL (bronze on stove)

Tom2

droideka,

How dare you! How can you even begin to think that the all-knowing gavriil is full of BS?

LOL!

By the way, I agree w/you 100% on all points. The know-it-all was once again proven ignorant.

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dead CL-S and M3

gavriil

Droideka sorry for calling sequential gearboaxes, serial. I sometimes translate from my native language on automotive issues especially after I finish reading a mag in that language. In that language (prefer not to disclose) the sequantial gearbox is pronounced "siriako". Which means serial.

Though I have never seen or heard of a WRC car with anything other than shifting gears on the stick (sequential or not). And did not have time to go to the link you provided. Can you explain? What is up with that Corolla?



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Gabriel
CL Type S

Tom2

gavriil is asian? Hmmmm...........

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dead CL-S and M3