gavriil

I cant believe BMW is doing this. And I am all for it, but I thought the company was against forced feeding engines like Honda is.

I was just watching Autoweek on Speedvision (taped earlier) and they said that the next 5 series will "wear" a:

TWIN TURBO 3 liter, inline, 6 cyliner making 380 HP!!!

and the already rumored,

5.5 liter V10 making 500 HP for the new M5!

The former engine is a big surprise to me. I was not expecting this from BMW.

The first question that popped to mind after I heard of this was:

Will this be the next engine used in the M3?

Why go the V8 way if you can make 380HP and I am sure more than 262 pounds of torque that the current M3, from this new I6, and it is even smaller (3 liter vs 3.2 liters).

I think this is some major news. The horsepower war just got more serious and I can see Honda not falling behind as they were always agressive with their figures anyway.

Overall good news folks. In the end, we win. These are some fine days to be a car enthusiast.

NOVAwhiteTypeS

TURBO!!

cob3683

Why would they put a 380hp engine in the 5 Series that isnt an M car? That almost totally deletes the purpose of the 7 series. Up the 7 or lower the 5 in my opinion.

someguy

No, BMW is not against turbos. They actually have made MANY turbo diesel motors and a handful of gas turbos like the 2002 Turbo. One of the neatest turbo BMWs is the 740d, with a 3.9L Twin Turbo V-8 with 413 pound-feet of torque at 1750 rpm.

I'll bet that the 525 with be 35K, 530 at 40k, 545i at 49K, 530is (turbo model, s = sports model, possibly with M5 suspension) at 59K and M5 near 80K

someguy

The 7 is a large luxury car, the 5 is smaller and sportier and always available with manual transmission.

The equal powered 540i was a lot cheaper than the 740i

cob3683

True, I had forgotten that in the old style 7. But also the only 5 that had more HP than the 7 was the M5. Now there will be 2? I think they still need to do it like MB though, so many diff variants of every car that can suit individual drivers needs.
EX (correct me if I am wrong on any of these, doing these off of the top of my head)
SLK CLASS
SLK230 170hp
SLK320 215hp
SLK32 349hp
C CLASS
C230 190hp
C240 170hp
C320 215hp
C32 349hp
CLK CLASS
CLK320 215hp
CLK430 275hp
CLK55 349hp
E CLASS (current style, not new)
E320 215hp
E430 275hp
E55 349hp
S CLASS
S430 275hp
S500 302hp
S55 355hp
S600 389hp
SL CLASS (old style cause they havent released all specs yet)
SL500 302hp
SL600 389hp
M CLASS
ML320 215hp
ML430 260hp (moms old car and I cant remember)
ML55 349hp
CL CLASS
CL500 302hp
CL55 349hp
CL600 389hp
If there are anymore MB questions you would like to ask, please leave them with my secretary.

someguy

Horesepower doesn't matter, power to weight ratio and gearing matter more. The equal engined 5 will always be faster than the same 7.

In Europe, both MB and BMW have 6 cylinder 7 series. Mercedes used to import the S320, remember? With the old 7, BMW was making a 728i with 193hp and a 540i with 282hp. Mercedes does the same thing with V-6 S class cars and V-8 E class cars. It is very common. People who buy 5s and Es want different things out of thier cars than 7 and S buyers.

fbazakos

wow, anybody wanna guess on the price tag?

someguy

HellaWhat

I've never had the feeling BMW was against forced induction... But this is because I view the M group and the whole of BMW as almost two seperate parts.. While the M-division seems intent on making power out of crazy tuning, that doesn't mean that view is shared by the regular BMW line...

gavriil

I dont see why HP ratings will affect the choice of 2 cars that belong to 2 different categories. If one wants to get a 7, they most probably are looking for more room. Horsepower will be a secondary consideration. No?

gavriil

You have a point with the 2002 Turbo but I can always say that those were different days. In the past 15 years or so, the company has been consistently against forced feeding. No?

About the diesel, I dont count that as the company being for forced feeding. Goind the diesel route, makes forced feeding mandatory today and in the past.

ALthough I agree with the guesstimates about the pricing, I want to ask you, how do you know about the denotations? Both the letter ones, as well as, the number ones which denote the dicplacement (most of the time)?

gavriil

Exactly. In Europe you can buy a 3 series with a 1.6 liter engine making 105 HP, doing the 0-62.5mph in 12.5 seconds

Here it is:



There is also a 318 liter engine which actually now is 1.9 liters large making 118HP. You probably remember this engine in the old 318i hatchback 3 series which we used to be able to get here, only on that case it made 140HP if I remember correctly.


Also about Mercedes, you can get a C180 in Europe which is 2 liters large making 130HP. 0-62.5mph in 11 seconds

You can also get a CLK 200 Compressor making 163HP. That same engine is worn by the E200 Compressor.

The S320 you mentioned, yes, is still available in Europe making 231HP doing the 0-62.5 mph in 8.2 seconds (not bad for the weight).

gavriil

Well then, why have we not seen any forced feeding by the company for decades? Cos you cant tell me they use large engines looking at the 2.5 liter engine used for a large and heavy car like the 525i. I mean, it would be nice if they could lightly force feed that. No?

someguy

Other than Diesels I can't think of any Turbos since the 2002.

As for the models:

525i- 2.5L Valvetronic I-6
530i- 3.0L Valvetroinc I-6
545i- 4.4L Valvetroinc V-8
M5- 5.5L Valvetronic V-10

As for the turbo 3.0L, there are a few possibilities. Maybe simply 530i Turbo or something like 530is or M530i

I think that the M models will always be N/A though. I would suspect that the next M3 will be a 4.0L V-8

Dacat

I like the new design...at the bottom of this link also states 380hp bi-turbo...

(posted last week)
http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums...=570052&page=1

ItalianStallion

first off i would say that M530i would be out of the question. more than likely 530is or 530ti or something along that lines. they wouldnt associate a car that isnt M related to the M line. it would confuse things WAY too much.

second, why would the new M3 be a v8 with the same displacement? i dont think much would change in the engine size. right now i believe the M3 is a 4 litre Str8 6 pot puttin out 333 hp. no if i am wrong just ignore everything i just said. any bigger an engine and the car would weigh too much in the front for its length. if they wanted to increase HP then they would have to force feed it or tune it up as much as they can. i didnt know they were still selling the 525 i thought they scrapped it when they upgraded their 6 and 8 pots (from 525 to 530 / from 535 to 540) but i could be wrong there too i wasnt into cars when this happened so excuse any errors.

and last yeah i was wondering if they would put the 4.4 Litre in the new 5 any official word on that?

someguy

It might be 530is, it won't be Ti because that is the hach. It won't be iT, because that is the wagon.

The M3 I-6 is the same displacement as the CL motor, 3.2L.

There have been cars that used the M designation that were not M cars, most notably the mid-80s M535 and M635 models E28 info

No, there is now a 525i in the USA. I agree that it probably won't be called an M530, but it isn't impossible.

There is no "official" word on any of the new 5 series info. The 7 usually gets technology a little while befor the 5 and have used the same motor in the past. It is almost certain that the 4.4L Valvetronic V-8 will go into a 545i.

gavriil

Oh so the denotation are a guess of yours. I see.

Still I agree though with those guesses.

ABout the M3, I hope they put in the biturbo engine now that I see how much power they pulled off of it.

ItalianStallion

woops my mistake. i was thinking ti or it for turbo but i do think is is more likely. and i had no idea the M3 engine was 3.2 (333hp in a 3.2 vs our 260? how does that happen?) and thanks for giving me the history lesson on the old M series cause i was just born around the mid 80's and didnt get into cars until about a year and a half ago. yeah be patient im only 16.

ps. not trying to hijack or anything but when does the new 6 series come out?

someguy

Here is some good general BMW model info: http://bmwworld.com/models/main.htm

The 6 series will probably come out next year....

Here is some info on the E46 M3 motor:


The Acura 3.2 is very different than the BMW S54. The BMW motor is an Inline 6 as opposed to your V-6, it has a higher redline, a higher compression ratio, and a better Valve timing program, Vanos, IMO