BMW to build MX-5 beater
08-02-2002, 04:54 PM
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BMW to build MX-5 beater
This is not news but the specs are.
Codenamed E82/2
Two seater roadster
To cost under £20,000
Will share 1-Series platform
On Sale late 2006
Designed to complement all new Z4
Modern look not retro
Using BMW's new "Flame Surfacing" design
Long Bonnet & short rear overhang
Simple "back to basics" interior
Cloth hood
Engines will be 4 cylinder units, starting with 110Bhp 1.6 up tp 240Bhp 2.2 M-Power unit designed to rev to 9000Rpm
-------------
Also, I heard that that 2.2 liter engine referenced above will be made off of magnesium block.
So this looks like what Pontiac is preparing with the Solstice. Interesting. There is going to be cheap roadsters to come. This is getting better and better of a time to be a car enthusiast.
Codenamed E82/2
Two seater roadster
To cost under £20,000
Will share 1-Series platform
On Sale late 2006
Designed to complement all new Z4
Modern look not retro
Using BMW's new "Flame Surfacing" design
Long Bonnet & short rear overhang
Simple "back to basics" interior
Cloth hood
Engines will be 4 cylinder units, starting with 110Bhp 1.6 up tp 240Bhp 2.2 M-Power unit designed to rev to 9000Rpm
-------------
Also, I heard that that 2.2 liter engine referenced above will be made off of magnesium block.
So this looks like what Pontiac is preparing with the Solstice. Interesting. There is going to be cheap roadsters to come. This is getting better and better of a time to be a car enthusiast.
08-02-2002, 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
VW upmarket=I dunno
GM has the foggiest idea what it is doing with Cadillac.
VW upmarket=I dunno
GM has the foggiest idea what it is doing with Cadillac.
and GM is trying to make Cadillac have a better image, i think they are doing a fine job. its alot more appealing today than it was 5 years ago IMO.
and BMW just wants to make money like the rest of us, the more cars they make, the more that are bought and the more money they make, while as a result, becoming the headlining make in yet another sector of the car market. so i dont think it will "kill" the brand, it may lessen the reputation of the company as a auto purist's luxo/sport brand, but shouldnt hurt them too much unless the engine fails all over tha place and it costs alot to maintain. they've been right about alot of things thus far so i trust this will be better than some expect.
08-02-2002, 05:45 PM
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240 hp? 9000 rpm? Can you say Honda S2000. BMW is starting to scare me. First they make the 3 series ugly, now they are going downmarket, and have you seen the new 5 series pics? UGLY!
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08-03-2002, 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
VW upmarket=I dunno
GM has the foggiest idea what it is doing with Cadillac.
VW upmarket=I dunno
GM has the foggiest idea what it is doing with Cadillac.
08-03-2002, 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by Red Nj-s
240 hp? 9000 rpm? Can you say Honda S2000. BMW is starting to scare me. First they make the 3 series ugly, now they are going downmarket, and have you seen the new 5 series pics? UGLY!
240 hp? 9000 rpm? Can you say Honda S2000. BMW is starting to scare me. First they make the 3 series ugly, now they are going downmarket, and have you seen the new 5 series pics? UGLY!
08-03-2002, 10:15 AM
#10
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Originally posted by gavriil
BMW's 5 series and 7 series was never good looking in my opinion. The 3 was right in the middle. Not good not bad. I loved the Z3 when it came out and that lasted for about 2-3 years. Now I see how the design got old but it lasted quite some time. Plus it is not produced any more. I am waiting to see the new 6 series. I have a felling it will look good. Will see.
BMW's 5 series and 7 series was never good looking in my opinion. The 3 was right in the middle. Not good not bad. I loved the Z3 when it came out and that lasted for about 2-3 years. Now I see how the design got old but it lasted quite some time. Plus it is not produced any more. I am waiting to see the new 6 series. I have a felling it will look good. Will see.
i agree. i think the current 5-series is butt ugly...
the 7 was plain.
the old 3 is disgusting and the current is just fine.
i really dig their new designs tho... the public does as well... even tho the majority here doesnt.
but bmws flame designed concepts were definately the BIGGEST draws at the auto shows for the past 2 years.
08-03-2002, 10:51 AM
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If Infiniti sells 200 NEWLY redesigned Q45s a month (no brand) at 60k, VW will sell just as many, sorry.
BMW is supposed to be cars to ASPIRE to, not bargain basement. Though BMW started out as the people's car back in the 50s and 60s (and almost folded trying to do so).
Caddy's image is better I guess, though I still have never seriously considered buying one.
BMW is supposed to be cars to ASPIRE to, not bargain basement. Though BMW started out as the people's car back in the 50s and 60s (and almost folded trying to do so).
Caddy's image is better I guess, though I still have never seriously considered buying one.
08-03-2002, 07:58 PM
#12
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
I do not want 4 cylinder BMW's. I want 40k and up BMWs, why they are going downmarket will kill the brand.
I do not want 4 cylinder BMW's. I want 40k and up BMWs, why they are going downmarket will kill the brand.
Well, if you knew any of BMW's history. You would know that BMW made economy cars awhile back. Matter of fact, if it wasn't for this car (BMW Isetta) BMW would be out of business. You should read-up a little more on BMW's history. Seems all of the young folks think BMW has always been in the high-end market, this is not so....
Seems mabye they are making a move back towards their roots.
Even I'm not too sure on BMW's new styling...
Read more about the BMW Isetta here
08-04-2002, 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by SiGGy
Well, if you knew any of BMW's history. You would know that BMW made economy cars awhile back. Matter of fact, if it wasn't for this car (BMW Isetta) BMW would be out of business. You should read-up a little more on BMW's history. Seems all of the young folks think BMW has always been in the high-end market, this is not so....
Seems mabye they are making a move back towards their roots.
Even I'm not too sure on BMW's new styling...
Read more about the BMW Isetta here
Well, if you knew any of BMW's history. You would know that BMW made economy cars awhile back. Matter of fact, if it wasn't for this car (BMW Isetta) BMW would be out of business. You should read-up a little more on BMW's history. Seems all of the young folks think BMW has always been in the high-end market, this is not so....
Seems mabye they are making a move back towards their roots.
Even I'm not too sure on BMW's new styling...
Read more about the BMW Isetta here
http://bmwworld.com/models/vintage/700.htm
08-04-2002, 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by someguy
Actually, it was the BMW 700 that saved the company from being bought out by MB in the late 50s. The 700 was had a REAR BOXTER engine and was sucessful in rallies!
http://bmwworld.com/models/vintage/700.htm
Actually, it was the BMW 700 that saved the company from being bought out by MB in the late 50s. The 700 was had a REAR BOXTER engine and was sucessful in rallies!
http://bmwworld.com/models/vintage/700.htm
The Isetta just kept them barely afloat. The 700 bailed them out
my bad. But what an odd car the Isetta was.
08-04-2002, 12:02 PM
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Did you not read what I said? BMW TRIED to be the people's car and failed miserably. I think the 506 saved em (I think) and it was not until they started moving upmarket that they started gaining respect. THat BMW with the door in the front failed, it made them no money.
08-04-2002, 12:10 PM
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it seems like we all have a different idea of what car saved BMW, for some reason i remember reading that it was infact the BMW 2002 that really got them out of the red.
08-04-2002, 12:16 PM
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plus its easier to use previously earned respect to your advantage and create more daring ideas. you cant build a car that's different or may be met with hostility if there is no respect to begin with. with the reputation that BMW has they can afford to move down market, they can test the waters and not be killed off in the process. before they were trying to do something that no one liked, that led to no one liking BMW. now that everyone (generalization) likes BMW they can do something some people will not like and remain BMW with their reputation they have earned. atleast it makes sense to me.
08-04-2002, 02:05 PM
#21
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http://www.whidbeycruzers.com/splash_pers_sliced.html
I thought it was the Isetta that saved them
That V8 sports car (BMW 507) came only after they made profits from the Isetta...
Probably true about them being bought out, but the company would have been bankrupt without this little gem. heh
I thought it was the Isetta that saved them
That V8 sports car (BMW 507) came only after they made profits from the Isetta...Probably true about them being bought out, but the company would have been bankrupt without this little gem. heh
08-04-2002, 03:41 PM
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If you really must know, here is some background on the "saving of BMW" from a magazine article
"Three forgotten individuals and a nice little car would make the difference. First, there was Erik Nold, a professional rabblerouser (and small shareholder) who took sadistic pleasure in badgering the company brass at stockholder meetings. INthis cars, he found plenty to badger about, with his proud company on the brink of selling him out. Once into the morning meeting, Nold rose to ask where the money had gone. Who was responsible for hte unprofitable cars of the recent past and the utter lack of promise for the future? Who, dammit, who?
BMW's CEO, an unpopular Prussian named Heinrich Richter-Brohm, squirmed in his chair as Nold posed an unending series of biting questions. The shareholds got into an increasingly fould mood as th morning grew longer. It was very much like Mr Smith Goes to Washington, with Nold as Jimmy Steward, facing down the high and mighty.
This public squabbling would have done little more than delay the inevitable but for the quick work of a disgruntled lawyer named Friederich Mathern, who represented a network of Bimmer dealers in Frankfurt. While Nold filibustered, turning the meeting into a carnival of insults, Mathern was hatching a plan of attack. He had an alternative plan that would allow for BMW's survival.
Mathern took the floor and painted a far rosier picture of BMW's situation, repeatedly challenging the competence and integreity of BMW's own executives. He cited a lucrative buyout offer for one BMW facility from the truck-maker MAN. He speculated alout about who was really going to profit from teh Daimler-Benz buyout.
He then set down the wildest of wild cards in this whole high-stakes game-an existing, potentially profitable car that had not been taken into account when BMW's future was so gloomily assessed. The Boxer-engined BMW 700, designed almost single-handedly by Wolfgan Denzel in Vienna, had been envisioned as merely a stop-gap use of the Isetta 600 platform. Yet according to Mathern's dealers in Frankfurt, the 700 was proving a hit with prospective buyers. How, asked Mathern, did BMW management account for likely future 700 profits against the start-up costs for the car that had figured so prominently in their grim prognosis?
As it turned out, the accounting on the 700 had been done incorrectly. Management had lumped the development costs for the 700 ino one year instead of spreading them out over the production cycle, as was the custom.
This faulty accounting of 700 liabilities was more than an oversight; it was sufficient grounds for Mathern to challenge the whole ledger. To do so required the consent of a mere 10 percent of the shareholders, not the majority needed to durn down the Daimler bid.
of course, the sharholders agreed and forced out Richter-Brohm. Quandt saved the company and the rest is history...."
The magazine artice was sourced from an exhaustive history of BMW in German, unreadable in English.
"Three forgotten individuals and a nice little car would make the difference. First, there was Erik Nold, a professional rabblerouser (and small shareholder) who took sadistic pleasure in badgering the company brass at stockholder meetings. INthis cars, he found plenty to badger about, with his proud company on the brink of selling him out. Once into the morning meeting, Nold rose to ask where the money had gone. Who was responsible for hte unprofitable cars of the recent past and the utter lack of promise for the future? Who, dammit, who?
BMW's CEO, an unpopular Prussian named Heinrich Richter-Brohm, squirmed in his chair as Nold posed an unending series of biting questions. The shareholds got into an increasingly fould mood as th morning grew longer. It was very much like Mr Smith Goes to Washington, with Nold as Jimmy Steward, facing down the high and mighty.
This public squabbling would have done little more than delay the inevitable but for the quick work of a disgruntled lawyer named Friederich Mathern, who represented a network of Bimmer dealers in Frankfurt. While Nold filibustered, turning the meeting into a carnival of insults, Mathern was hatching a plan of attack. He had an alternative plan that would allow for BMW's survival.
Mathern took the floor and painted a far rosier picture of BMW's situation, repeatedly challenging the competence and integreity of BMW's own executives. He cited a lucrative buyout offer for one BMW facility from the truck-maker MAN. He speculated alout about who was really going to profit from teh Daimler-Benz buyout.
He then set down the wildest of wild cards in this whole high-stakes game-an existing, potentially profitable car that had not been taken into account when BMW's future was so gloomily assessed. The Boxer-engined BMW 700, designed almost single-handedly by Wolfgan Denzel in Vienna, had been envisioned as merely a stop-gap use of the Isetta 600 platform. Yet according to Mathern's dealers in Frankfurt, the 700 was proving a hit with prospective buyers. How, asked Mathern, did BMW management account for likely future 700 profits against the start-up costs for the car that had figured so prominently in their grim prognosis?
As it turned out, the accounting on the 700 had been done incorrectly. Management had lumped the development costs for the 700 ino one year instead of spreading them out over the production cycle, as was the custom.
This faulty accounting of 700 liabilities was more than an oversight; it was sufficient grounds for Mathern to challenge the whole ledger. To do so required the consent of a mere 10 percent of the shareholders, not the majority needed to durn down the Daimler bid.
of course, the sharholders agreed and forced out Richter-Brohm. Quandt saved the company and the rest is history...."
The magazine artice was sourced from an exhaustive history of BMW in German, unreadable in English.
08-04-2002, 04:17 PM
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Good article. Shows the 700 car did well. But it didn't bail them out of bankruptcy the Isetta did.
Without the Isetta the 700 would have never happened.
Without the Isetta the 700 would have never happened.
08-04-2002, 04:23 PM
#24
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Did you not read what I said? BMW TRIED to be the people's car and failed miserably. I think the 506 saved em (I think) and it was not until they started moving upmarket that they started gaining respect. THat BMW with the door in the front failed, it made them no money.
Did you not read what I said? BMW TRIED to be the people's car and failed miserably. I think the 506 saved em (I think) and it was not until they started moving upmarket that they started gaining respect. THat BMW with the door in the front failed, it made them no money.
Hitler asked for a cheap economy car to be built for the citizens of germany a "peoples car". He actually asked Porsche to make it (Ferdinand Porsche).
Ferdinand did it... and boomed off of it. Hence the birth of Volkswagen.
"peoples car" = "Volks-wagen" in german
Funny VW people have Hitler to thank.
08-04-2002, 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by SiGGy
Good article. Shows the 700 car did well. But it didn't bail them out of bankruptcy the Isetta did.
Without the Isetta the 700 would have never happened.
Good article. Shows the 700 car did well. But it didn't bail them out of bankruptcy the Isetta did.
Without the Isetta the 700 would have never happened.
Read about the Isetta 600 here http://bmwworld.com/models/600.htm
It was the 700 sedan that kept them up and the 2002 that made BMW's image, especially in the USA. The BMWCCA was founded basically by 2002 owners.
08-04-2002, 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by someguy
I suppose that is true, but quite decieving because the 700 was based on the Isetta 600. It was a different model. The Isetta 600 wasn't a particularly popular car. The semi-trailing arm independent suspension was important, it was used on 3 series until '92 and also on the Z3.
Read about the Isetta 600 here http://bmwworld.com/models/600.htm
It was the 700 sedan that kept them up and the 2002 that made BMW's image, especially in the USA. The BMWCCA was founded basically by 2002 owners.
I suppose that is true, but quite decieving because the 700 was based on the Isetta 600. It was a different model. The Isetta 600 wasn't a particularly popular car. The semi-trailing arm independent suspension was important, it was used on 3 series until '92 and also on the Z3.
Read about the Isetta 600 here http://bmwworld.com/models/600.htm
It was the 700 sedan that kept them up and the 2002 that made BMW's image, especially in the USA. The BMWCCA was founded basically by 2002 owners.
Originally posted by SiGGy
Now you are refering to Hitler...
Hitler asked for a cheap economy car to be built a "peoples car". He actually asked Porsche to make it (Ferdinand Porsche).
Ferdinand did it... and boomed off of it. Hence the birth of Volkswagen.
"peoples car" = "Volks-wagen" in german
Funny VW people have Hitler to thank.
Now you are refering to Hitler...
Hitler asked for a cheap economy car to be built a "peoples car". He actually asked Porsche to make it (Ferdinand Porsche).
Ferdinand did it... and boomed off of it. Hence the birth of Volkswagen.
"peoples car" = "Volks-wagen" in german
Funny VW people have Hitler to thank.
08-04-2002, 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Yeah, the 2002 was what gave BMW the sports sedan image here in the U.S.
Yeah, the 2002 was what gave BMW the sports sedan image here in the U.S.
I thought the car was pretty unique looking (compared to the domestic models of the time).
Here's a pic of a similar model.
08-05-2002, 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by SiGGy
Now you are refering to Hitler...
Hitler asked for a cheap economy car to be built for the citizens of germany a "peoples car". He actually asked Porsche to make it (Ferdinand Porsche).
Ferdinand did it... and boomed off of it. Hence the birth of Volkswagen.
"peoples car" = "Volks-wagen" in german
Funny VW people have Hitler to thank.
Now you are refering to Hitler...
Hitler asked for a cheap economy car to be built for the citizens of germany a "peoples car". He actually asked Porsche to make it (Ferdinand Porsche).
Ferdinand did it... and boomed off of it. Hence the birth of Volkswagen.
"peoples car" = "Volks-wagen" in german
Funny VW people have Hitler to thank.
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