"Black Boxes" Being installed on 08 models!
08-22-2006, 09:29 PM
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"Black Boxes" Being installed on 08 models!
Who’s Watching?
By ERIC PETERS
Big Brother will be watching you for sure by 2008 -- the year a proposed requirement that Event Data Recorders (EDRs) become mandatory standard equipment in all new cars and trucks will become law unless public outrage puts the kibosh on it somehow.
EDRs are "black boxes" -- just like airplanes have. They can record a wide variety of things -- including how fast you drive and whether you "buckle-up for safety." The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) wants EDRs to be installed in every new vehicle beginning with model year 2008 -- on the theory that the information will help crash investigators more accurately determine the hows and whys of accidents.
But EDRs could -- and likely will be -- used for other purposes as well.
Tied into GPS navigation computers, EDRs could give interested parties -- your local cash-hungry sheriff, for example -- the ability to take automated ticketing to the next level. Since the data recorders can continuously monitor most of the operating parameters of a vehicle as it travels -- and the GPS unit can precisely locate the vehicle in "real time," wherever it happens to be at any given moment -- any and all incidents of "speeding" could be immediately detected and a piece of paying paper issued to the offender faster than he could tap the brake. That's even if he knew he was in the crosshairs, which of course he wouldn't. Probably they'll just erect an electronic debiting system of some sort that ties directly into your checking account -- since the paperwork could not keep up with the massive uptick in fines that would be generated.
If you think this is just a dark-minded paranoiac vision, think again. Rental car companies have already deployed a very similar system of onboard electronic monitoring to identify customers who dare to drive faster than the posted limit -- and automatically tap them with a "surcharge" for their scofflaw ways. While this inventive form of "revenue enhancement" was challenged and subsequently batted down by the courts, the technology continues to be honed -- and quietly put into service.
Already, 15-20 percent of all the cars and trucks in service have EDRs; most of these are General Motors vehicles. GM has been installing "black boxes" in its new cars and trucks since about 1996 as part of the Supplemental Restraint (air bag) system. Within a few years, as many as 90 percent of all new motor vehicles will be equipped with EDRs, according to government estimates -- whether the requirement NHTSA is pushing actually becomes law or not.
The automakers are just as eager to keep tabs on us as the government -- in part to keep the shyster lawyers who have been so successfully digging into their deep pockets at bay. EDRs would provide irrefutable evidence of high-speed driving, for example -- or make it impossible for a person injured in a crash to deny he wasn't wearing a seat belt.
Insurance companies will launch "safety" campaigns urging that "we use available technology" to identify "unsafe" drivers -- and who will be able to argue against that? Everyone knows that speeding is against the law -- and if you aren't breaking the law, what have you got to worry about?
It's all for our own good.
But if you get edgy thinking about the government -- and our friends in corporate America -- being able to monitor where we go and how we go whenever they feel like checking in on us, take the time to write a "Thanks, but no thanks" letter to NHTSA at http://dms.dot.gov/
By ERIC PETERS
Big Brother will be watching you for sure by 2008 -- the year a proposed requirement that Event Data Recorders (EDRs) become mandatory standard equipment in all new cars and trucks will become law unless public outrage puts the kibosh on it somehow.
EDRs are "black boxes" -- just like airplanes have. They can record a wide variety of things -- including how fast you drive and whether you "buckle-up for safety." The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) wants EDRs to be installed in every new vehicle beginning with model year 2008 -- on the theory that the information will help crash investigators more accurately determine the hows and whys of accidents.
But EDRs could -- and likely will be -- used for other purposes as well.
Tied into GPS navigation computers, EDRs could give interested parties -- your local cash-hungry sheriff, for example -- the ability to take automated ticketing to the next level. Since the data recorders can continuously monitor most of the operating parameters of a vehicle as it travels -- and the GPS unit can precisely locate the vehicle in "real time," wherever it happens to be at any given moment -- any and all incidents of "speeding" could be immediately detected and a piece of paying paper issued to the offender faster than he could tap the brake. That's even if he knew he was in the crosshairs, which of course he wouldn't. Probably they'll just erect an electronic debiting system of some sort that ties directly into your checking account -- since the paperwork could not keep up with the massive uptick in fines that would be generated.
If you think this is just a dark-minded paranoiac vision, think again. Rental car companies have already deployed a very similar system of onboard electronic monitoring to identify customers who dare to drive faster than the posted limit -- and automatically tap them with a "surcharge" for their scofflaw ways. While this inventive form of "revenue enhancement" was challenged and subsequently batted down by the courts, the technology continues to be honed -- and quietly put into service.
Already, 15-20 percent of all the cars and trucks in service have EDRs; most of these are General Motors vehicles. GM has been installing "black boxes" in its new cars and trucks since about 1996 as part of the Supplemental Restraint (air bag) system. Within a few years, as many as 90 percent of all new motor vehicles will be equipped with EDRs, according to government estimates -- whether the requirement NHTSA is pushing actually becomes law or not.
The automakers are just as eager to keep tabs on us as the government -- in part to keep the shyster lawyers who have been so successfully digging into their deep pockets at bay. EDRs would provide irrefutable evidence of high-speed driving, for example -- or make it impossible for a person injured in a crash to deny he wasn't wearing a seat belt.
Insurance companies will launch "safety" campaigns urging that "we use available technology" to identify "unsafe" drivers -- and who will be able to argue against that? Everyone knows that speeding is against the law -- and if you aren't breaking the law, what have you got to worry about?
It's all for our own good.
But if you get edgy thinking about the government -- and our friends in corporate America -- being able to monitor where we go and how we go whenever they feel like checking in on us, take the time to write a "Thanks, but no thanks" letter to NHTSA at http://dms.dot.gov/
08-23-2006, 12:03 AM
#2
Just the facts...
While I see this as a spammer if this is true I think as auto enthuiasts we need to rise up against this and make sure this never happens? Anyone else agree?
08-23-2006, 08:31 AM
#3
Originally Posted by Ron Burgundy
While I see this as a spammer if this is true I think as auto enthuiasts we need to rise up against this and make sure this never happens? Anyone else agree?
08-23-2006, 08:45 AM
#5
Senior Moderator
I'm sure that someone will come up with an anonymizer for these black boxes if it does become law. Some one will hack it to protect our privacy...
I hate when gov't gets into my shit... but I can see the "safety" benefits of such a device...
I hate when gov't gets into my shit... but I can see the "safety" benefits of such a device...
08-23-2006, 09:09 AM
#7
4-8-15-16-23-42
wow.
My boss just told me he wants me to cover a meeting for him on Friday where the topic will be the installation of active cameras in all city vehicles.
this stuff is getting crazy.
My boss just told me he wants me to cover a meeting for him on Friday where the topic will be the installation of active cameras in all city vehicles.
this stuff is getting crazy.
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08-23-2006, 09:51 AM
#8
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by GreenMonster
I'm sure that someone will come up with an anonymizer for these black boxes if it does become law. Some one will hack it to protect our privacy...
I hate when gov't gets into my shit... but I can see the "safety" benefits of such a device...
I hate when gov't gets into my shit... but I can see the "safety" benefits of such a device...
08-23-2006, 10:36 AM
#9
Instructor
Originally Posted by 05IRL
Insurance companies will launch "safety" campaigns urging that "we use available technology" to identify "unsafe" drivers -- and who will be able to argue against that? Everyone knows that speeding is against the law -- and if you aren't breaking the law, what have you got to worry about?
08-23-2006, 10:53 AM
#11
teh Senior Instigator
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Originally Posted by Ron Burgundy
While I see this as a spammer if this is true I think as auto enthuiasts we need to rise up against this and make sure this never happens? Anyone else agree?
I hate to tell you this, but many cars already have similiar devices
08-23-2006, 01:00 PM
#12
checkmate...
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We've got a heated debate about this going on in the 3rd gen forum:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143035
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143035
08-23-2006, 02:07 PM
#13
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by fsttyms1
I agree. If there were a way it would be used just for the "saftey benefits" then it would be ok, but they arent. It in no way should be a way for the govt to track our speeds and what we are doing, even in accidents they should be hands off unless given permission from the cars owner
I think they'll be legal battles over this... What every happened to the right not to incriminate yourself ?? Anyone heard of the little thing called the Fifth Amendment ??
08-23-2006, 02:09 PM
#14
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this would be awesome!
aside from aiding law enforcment at determing what went wrong in an accident, perhaps it will help shut up those people that cause accidents but yet claim it was always the other guys fault.
Now all they have to do is make it mandatory for breathalyzers to be installed in vehicles so the car doesn't turn on if you are too drunk.
aside from aiding law enforcment at determing what went wrong in an accident, perhaps it will help shut up those people that cause accidents but yet claim it was always the other guys fault.
Now all they have to do is make it mandatory for breathalyzers to be installed in vehicles so the car doesn't turn on if you are too drunk.
08-23-2006, 02:43 PM
#15
The sizzle in the Steak
At least now we will know that the old blue hair who drove their car into the storefront actually did hit the gas and not the brake. 
08-23-2006, 04:06 PM
#16
Needs more Lemon Pledge
IRL=Indy Racing League
Any car with an airbag factory installed has had a data recorder in it for some time, but typically these only record the 10-15 seconds prior to an airbag activation. Items such as lateral G loads, acceleration, VSC activity, speed, etc... were recorded and available to insurance companies and car makers for safety research and accident evaluation purposes. Just in case people did not realize that this was already happening to a certain extent.
Any car with an airbag factory installed has had a data recorder in it for some time, but typically these only record the 10-15 seconds prior to an airbag activation. Items such as lateral G loads, acceleration, VSC activity, speed, etc... were recorded and available to insurance companies and car makers for safety research and accident evaluation purposes. Just in case people did not realize that this was already happening to a certain extent.
08-23-2006, 05:45 PM
#17
i think this would be highly beneficial in only one way:
in benz and bmw with the auto drive feature where it detects distance and speed. what would happen if the car crashes b/c it failed to brake in time. there would be no proof if you turned the feature on or off so where would the blame fall on? driver or car maker?
in benz and bmw with the auto drive feature where it detects distance and speed. what would happen if the car crashes b/c it failed to brake in time. there would be no proof if you turned the feature on or off so where would the blame fall on? driver or car maker?
08-24-2006, 09:14 AM
#19
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by RyeCL
too much Big Brother for me 
In tandem with Intelligent Vehicle Highway Systems, EDRs will spell the end of driving as we know it.
08-25-2006, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by CLpower
I hate to tell you this, but many cars already have similiar devices
I think legally they have to do that.
Vette’s have had them installed for 10+ years so I’ve heard.
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