Best AWD system overall?
#5
This is an easy one ![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
of course mitsubishi's AWD system!!! It features an Active Center Differential and Active Yaw Control.
Active Center Differential is an electronically controlled hydraulic multi-plate clutch which distributes torque between the front and rear to improve traction under acceleration out of a corner. It works in conjunction with Active Yaw Control which enhances grip and steering response whilst driving through the bend itself. Using sensors, ACD regulates slippage in the 50:50 torque-split diff from free to lock-up according to speed and load. So under hard acceleration the ACD moves towards lock-up to put more torque down on the road for stronger traction, but with rapid steering inputs it operates virtually like an open differential to improve steering feel and response.
A choice of three setting - tarmac, gravel and snow - operated manually, gradually lock up the Active Centre Differential depending on road conditions.
Active Yaw Control was developed by Mitsubishi to improve a vehicle's cornering and acceleration performance, and consequently its safety, under a wide range of operating conditions. This is achieved by utilizing a torque transfer differential which is controlled by various sensors and an electronic control unit (ECU) to enable a difference in torque to go to each of the rear wheels. by increasing the level of torque to the left rear wheel and reducing the torque level to the right wheel, it is possible to change the yaw movement of the vehicle. This in turn will cause the vehicle to steer inwards and reduce the amount of slip on the front tyres, thus resulting in reduced under-steer. It also works if over-steer occurs.by reducing the torque level to the left hand rear wheel and increasing the torque level to the right hand wheel, again changing the yaw movement to reduce over-steer.
By controlling the amount of torque transmitted to the rear wheels when there is less traction, or a difference in grip on the road surface, AYC also works to improve acceleration and stability on slippery roads.![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
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![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
of course mitsubishi's AWD system!!! It features an Active Center Differential and Active Yaw Control.
Active Center Differential is an electronically controlled hydraulic multi-plate clutch which distributes torque between the front and rear to improve traction under acceleration out of a corner. It works in conjunction with Active Yaw Control which enhances grip and steering response whilst driving through the bend itself. Using sensors, ACD regulates slippage in the 50:50 torque-split diff from free to lock-up according to speed and load. So under hard acceleration the ACD moves towards lock-up to put more torque down on the road for stronger traction, but with rapid steering inputs it operates virtually like an open differential to improve steering feel and response.
A choice of three setting - tarmac, gravel and snow - operated manually, gradually lock up the Active Centre Differential depending on road conditions.
Active Yaw Control was developed by Mitsubishi to improve a vehicle's cornering and acceleration performance, and consequently its safety, under a wide range of operating conditions. This is achieved by utilizing a torque transfer differential which is controlled by various sensors and an electronic control unit (ECU) to enable a difference in torque to go to each of the rear wheels. by increasing the level of torque to the left rear wheel and reducing the torque level to the right wheel, it is possible to change the yaw movement of the vehicle. This in turn will cause the vehicle to steer inwards and reduce the amount of slip on the front tyres, thus resulting in reduced under-steer. It also works if over-steer occurs.by reducing the torque level to the left hand rear wheel and increasing the torque level to the right hand wheel, again changing the yaw movement to reduce over-steer.
By controlling the amount of torque transmitted to the rear wheels when there is less traction, or a difference in grip on the road surface, AYC also works to improve acceleration and stability on slippery roads.
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
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#6
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
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Subaru employs Symmetrical All Wheel Drive. This system has the following features:
Vehicle Dynamics Control (VDC) With Traction Control System (TCS)
Vehicle Dynamics Control is a stability system that keeps the vehicle on its intended path. VDC measures a number of variables such as steering input, braking, and the angle of the vehicle. The system applies individual brakes and/or reduces engine power to help maintain vehicle control.
TCS is designed to prevent wheel spin and to aid with friction. This electronic system detects loss of traction and targets the distressed wheels. Brake-force is applied and engine power is redirected to functioning drive wheels.
How VDC with TCS Works
How VDC with TCS Senses and Controls
An added feature to the full-time security of Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive, VDC with TCS engages when needed. A control module analyzes the current driving situation by monitoring vehicle speed, throttle opening, gear position, lateral G force, yaw rate, brake pedal pressure, and steering wheel angle. Based on the data from these sources, a computer coordinates control of torque distribution, engine output, and the Antilock Brake System to help maintain vehicle stability.
So is Mitsubishi a better system? It's a matter of fine technical detail. I say drive both and be the judge.
(My money is on Subaru, as the only thing they make is AWD. They don't do a FWD or RWD car. Because of this, they know how to do it right. )
Vehicle Dynamics Control (VDC) With Traction Control System (TCS)
Vehicle Dynamics Control is a stability system that keeps the vehicle on its intended path. VDC measures a number of variables such as steering input, braking, and the angle of the vehicle. The system applies individual brakes and/or reduces engine power to help maintain vehicle control.
TCS is designed to prevent wheel spin and to aid with friction. This electronic system detects loss of traction and targets the distressed wheels. Brake-force is applied and engine power is redirected to functioning drive wheels.
How VDC with TCS Works
How VDC with TCS Senses and Controls
An added feature to the full-time security of Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive, VDC with TCS engages when needed. A control module analyzes the current driving situation by monitoring vehicle speed, throttle opening, gear position, lateral G force, yaw rate, brake pedal pressure, and steering wheel angle. Based on the data from these sources, a computer coordinates control of torque distribution, engine output, and the Antilock Brake System to help maintain vehicle stability.
So is Mitsubishi a better system? It's a matter of fine technical detail. I say drive both and be the judge.
(My money is on Subaru, as the only thing they make is AWD. They don't do a FWD or RWD car. Because of this, they know how to do it right. )
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#7
Senior Moderator
:ibhondash-awdproponentscheckin:
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#9
Senior Moderator
Sh-awd
#10
I shoot people
I'm going to go with Audi (because they've been doing that Quattro thing for decades) and Subaru (because AWD is ALL they do)
#11
Suzuka Master
You really need to tell us what "best" means. If you want an off road vehicle, you simply can't beat a hummer. Except maybe with a Duce and a half, which is all wheel drive, on all 10 wheels.
#13
E92
Subaru's seems good, especially with the STi which lets you change the F/R torque distribution
And Nissan's ATTESA-ETS system that is in the Skyline GT-Rs
#15
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Maybe you're mixing it up with Acura's SH-AWD, which is more FWD based.
#16
E92
#17
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You need to give some sort of criteria..
Mitsubishi and Subaru make excellent AWD setups for snow/gravel handling with some performance thrown in.
Acura of course has SH-AWD which has its merits for snow and performance.
If you're talking about off-roading are you wanting AWD or a true 4WD with locking differentials?
Mitsubishi and Subaru make excellent AWD setups for snow/gravel handling with some performance thrown in.
Acura of course has SH-AWD which has its merits for snow and performance.
If you're talking about off-roading are you wanting AWD or a true 4WD with locking differentials?
#18
'10 Hyundai Genesis Coupe
And no one mentions Lambo?
EVO IX MR had the best AWD system clearly head and shoulders above anything else for the price.
Subaru is pretty good as well.
Audi is good to.
EVO IX MR had the best AWD system clearly head and shoulders above anything else for the price.
Subaru is pretty good as well.
Audi is good to.
#19
Nissan ATTESSA-ETS (sp?) is the probably one of the best AWD systems for on-road performance. Like someone mentioned, the same basic system that saw duty in the R32+ GT-R. Under normal driving situations all torque goes to the back wheels (actually it's something like a 2/98 split), but can go all the way to a 50/50 lock under slip conditions.
For off-road or inclement conditions, I've always heard the Mitsubishi EVO's AWD system is one of the most advanced.
For off-road or inclement conditions, I've always heard the Mitsubishi EVO's AWD system is one of the most advanced.
#20
GEEZER
Mine works well for me in my mazdaspeed 6. Thats about all I know about it.
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
#23
Senior Moderator
#26
Senior Moderator
x drive, it distributes torque like SH-AWD (which overdrives outside wheel as well) to each wheel independently while braking too! which SH-AWD doesn't do...
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#28
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Quattro used to represent torsen-LSD design. It has quick response, permanent AWD, but it's also pricey and torque split is not variable. 4motion on the other hand is basically a cheaper/simpler version of the famous Porsche 959's PSK system. It uses a multi-plate clutch center differential developed by Haldex.
Most Audi's still use the Torsen-LSD system, but I think the Golf-based cars, like the S3 and TT use the Haldex system. The Passat on the other hand uses the Torsen-LSD system, even though it's called 4motion.
#30
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
A Subaru Legacy Spec B has the Torsen LSD. It's part of the option package (along with better suspension and some cosmetics).
IMO, I think a system that has variable yaw control, and the ability to distribute torque where and when needed is the best system. And it looks like the Mitsubishi, Subaru, and VW systems do it well.
IMO, I think a system that has variable yaw control, and the ability to distribute torque where and when needed is the best system. And it looks like the Mitsubishi, Subaru, and VW systems do it well.
#32
Senior Moderator
Everyone knows there are control and capability benefits of all-wheel drive when you’re dealing with the elements—come sand or high water. Dropping an engine’s torque down to the ground with four tire patches instead of two would give any vehicle more traction. But headed to market in more and more performance cars are new systems that can seamlessly and instantaneously distribute torque to any single wheel at a time. Welcome to torque vectoring all-wheel drive.
Most modern all-wheel-drive cars and SUVs already offer some type of computer-controlled, part-time engagement to save fuel. When the computer detects that one or more wheels is rotating faster than the vehicle’s speed or that the vehicle is yawing off its intended path of travel, the system steps in. First, it engages the other drive axle and applies a proportion of the vehicle’s torque to it. If the wheels continue to spin, the computer reduces engine torque or even brakes one of the wheels, if necessary.
In recent times, these systems have taken a fairly radical step forward. Automakers have reinvented front and rear differentials to the point where an engine’s torque can be passed around—or vectored—to each corner of the car. In other words, your torque can go from front to back like a traditional all-wheel-drive setup <i>and</i> distribute from left to right on a given axle—all very, very quickly. It’s like having a computer-controlled, super-speed limited slip differential in each axle. This means not only great foul-weather traction but also eerily competent handling performance on dry roads.
Acura, for instance, has offered its Super Handling All-Wheel-Drive (SH-AWD) system for several years. It monitors vehicle speed, wheel speed, gear position, steering angle, yaw rate, lateral G forces and other inputs, while automatically adding torque to the outside rear wheel in corners to make the car turn quicker. A set of electromagnetic clutches in the rear differential passes the torque from side to side. The system, which normally distributes torque 90 percent up front and 10 percent in the rear, quickly changes to a 50/50 split during acceleration or hard cornering. The system can then send some or all of that 50 percent going to the rear axle directly to the outside tire to make the vehicle bend into a corner more sharply. Mitsubishi, a torque vectoring pioneer, has used a similar system called Active Yaw Control in the rear axle of its high-performance Evolution sport sedan since the late ’90s.
Audi, BMW and others are taking it a step further: While SH-AWD only works on the rear axle of a normally front-drive vehicle, new systems from automotive suppliers Ricardo in Britain and ZF in Germany can vector torque to all four tires simultaneously.
The Ricardo Cross-Axle Torque-Vectoring system uses wet clutches and planetary gearsets, in both the front and rear differentials, that are controlled by electrical, electromechanical or electrohydraulic control systems. Ricardo says the system’s response time, from the push of the accelerator to the delivery of up to 90 percent of available torque, is only about 0.1 seconds. If Ricardo’s vectoring is used only in an all-wheel-drive vehicle’s center differential, the engine torque effectively gets passed around front-to-rear and side-to-side—with split-second accuracy—for every driving condition. Look for it in the new Audi A4 and A5.
German transmission and driveline company ZF has also developed a torque-vectoring system, called Vector Drive—and it’s ready for volume production in all-wheel and rear-wheel drive vehicles. The system distributes drive torque individually to each of the rear wheels, generating a yaw movement around the vertical axis. This improves both cornering performance and vehicle stability in less-than-ideal road conditions. When driving straight, the torque vectoring rear axle behaves like an ordinary open differential. Drive torque is distributed equally to the wheels. Torque is only distributed individually along both halfshafts on an axle during cornering, controlled by an electromechanically actuated multi-disk brake. The ZF system also generates wheel differential torque independently of the drive torque. When cornering through a downhill section off the throttle, the outer wheel receives more drive torque than the inner wheel, allowing crisper turn-in. The gears of the planetary gearset don’t turn when driving straight, so the system saves fuel too. The torque-vectoring drive also acts like a positive-traction or locking differential on dry or uneven traction startups, with torque going to the wheel with higher friction potential.
These new torque vectoring systems will undoubtedly join forces with the pre-existing ABS brakes, traction control, stability control, steering and rollover mitigation systems. The result will be smarter, safer and quicker vehicles, whether it’s on a rain-soaked freeway, a snowy driveway or a racetrack. —Jim McCraw
Most modern all-wheel-drive cars and SUVs already offer some type of computer-controlled, part-time engagement to save fuel. When the computer detects that one or more wheels is rotating faster than the vehicle’s speed or that the vehicle is yawing off its intended path of travel, the system steps in. First, it engages the other drive axle and applies a proportion of the vehicle’s torque to it. If the wheels continue to spin, the computer reduces engine torque or even brakes one of the wheels, if necessary.
In recent times, these systems have taken a fairly radical step forward. Automakers have reinvented front and rear differentials to the point where an engine’s torque can be passed around—or vectored—to each corner of the car. In other words, your torque can go from front to back like a traditional all-wheel-drive setup <i>and</i> distribute from left to right on a given axle—all very, very quickly. It’s like having a computer-controlled, super-speed limited slip differential in each axle. This means not only great foul-weather traction but also eerily competent handling performance on dry roads.
Acura, for instance, has offered its Super Handling All-Wheel-Drive (SH-AWD) system for several years. It monitors vehicle speed, wheel speed, gear position, steering angle, yaw rate, lateral G forces and other inputs, while automatically adding torque to the outside rear wheel in corners to make the car turn quicker. A set of electromagnetic clutches in the rear differential passes the torque from side to side. The system, which normally distributes torque 90 percent up front and 10 percent in the rear, quickly changes to a 50/50 split during acceleration or hard cornering. The system can then send some or all of that 50 percent going to the rear axle directly to the outside tire to make the vehicle bend into a corner more sharply. Mitsubishi, a torque vectoring pioneer, has used a similar system called Active Yaw Control in the rear axle of its high-performance Evolution sport sedan since the late ’90s.
Audi, BMW and others are taking it a step further: While SH-AWD only works on the rear axle of a normally front-drive vehicle, new systems from automotive suppliers Ricardo in Britain and ZF in Germany can vector torque to all four tires simultaneously.
The Ricardo Cross-Axle Torque-Vectoring system uses wet clutches and planetary gearsets, in both the front and rear differentials, that are controlled by electrical, electromechanical or electrohydraulic control systems. Ricardo says the system’s response time, from the push of the accelerator to the delivery of up to 90 percent of available torque, is only about 0.1 seconds. If Ricardo’s vectoring is used only in an all-wheel-drive vehicle’s center differential, the engine torque effectively gets passed around front-to-rear and side-to-side—with split-second accuracy—for every driving condition. Look for it in the new Audi A4 and A5.
German transmission and driveline company ZF has also developed a torque-vectoring system, called Vector Drive—and it’s ready for volume production in all-wheel and rear-wheel drive vehicles. The system distributes drive torque individually to each of the rear wheels, generating a yaw movement around the vertical axis. This improves both cornering performance and vehicle stability in less-than-ideal road conditions. When driving straight, the torque vectoring rear axle behaves like an ordinary open differential. Drive torque is distributed equally to the wheels. Torque is only distributed individually along both halfshafts on an axle during cornering, controlled by an electromechanically actuated multi-disk brake. The ZF system also generates wheel differential torque independently of the drive torque. When cornering through a downhill section off the throttle, the outer wheel receives more drive torque than the inner wheel, allowing crisper turn-in. The gears of the planetary gearset don’t turn when driving straight, so the system saves fuel too. The torque-vectoring drive also acts like a positive-traction or locking differential on dry or uneven traction startups, with torque going to the wheel with higher friction potential.
These new torque vectoring systems will undoubtedly join forces with the pre-existing ABS brakes, traction control, stability control, steering and rollover mitigation systems. The result will be smarter, safer and quicker vehicles, whether it’s on a rain-soaked freeway, a snowy driveway or a racetrack. —Jim McCraw
#34
Not Registered
I know it's not all the cool cars we're talking about, but a neat vid... that's been posted before! I'd like to see BMW and Audi AWD tests.
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#35
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
Nice. I'd like to see the Mitsubishi on there, as well as a Merc and BMW. I think Audi would be similar to the VW.
#36
You'll Never Walk Alone
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Lol, they wouldn't include Mitsubishi there because most likely it will pass the test. I would like to see how sh-awd would do.
So Audi and BMW are basically buying designs from Ricardo and/or ZF. What about Honda? Where did they get their design from?
So Audi and BMW are basically buying designs from Ricardo and/or ZF. What about Honda? Where did they get their design from?
#37
Oliver!!!
The only one I've had any direct experience with is the Audi Haldex system from the TT Quatro Turbo. With the 6MT and the VSC turned off I could smoke all four tires. But with the system turned on I could put the passenger in my lap on a right hand turn. It was unbelievable, until it came time to do a fluid change. That Haldex system requires fluid changes every 15k miles, and it ain't cheap.
#38
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Honda designed it themselves, just like their transmissions.. its all done in house. No need to pay other companies for use of technology.
#39
I'm a big fan of SH-AWD. I don't think the true potential of it has been released. I'd like to see it with 20:80 F/R in a small RWD car like the S2000.
But, this fight will go on and on for forever. But who has the lightest AWD system? I know all that extra equipment adds weight, so who has reduced the weight, while still gaining performance?
But, this fight will go on and on for forever. But who has the lightest AWD system? I know all that extra equipment adds weight, so who has reduced the weight, while still gaining performance?
#40
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I know it's not all the cool cars we're talking about, but a neat vid... that's been posted before! I'd like to see BMW and Audi AWD tests.
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i would like to see those tests done from a 3rd unbiased party with all the most famous AWD systems out. (honda, mitsubishi, BMW, mercedes, audi/volkswagen, nissan, subaru, and even the american AWD systems)