Bad accident on track involving a Vette and an 18 year old
06-21-2010, 12:29 PM
#81
No, the point saintor is getting at WITHOUT knowing HOW OR WHY the accident occurred, is that because he was 16 that is the reason for the crash, and the parents should be held liable even though NO WHERE does it say it was caused by his lack of Experience, Maturity and Responsibility with this accident
06-21-2010, 12:32 PM
#82
Senior Moderator
06-21-2010, 12:42 PM
#83
Senior Moderator
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: May 2000
Location: where the weather suits my clothes
Age: 55
Posts: 27,921
Received 1,080 Likes
on
661 Posts
Yea, but thats going by the assumption that the car was the reason for the accident. Like said above, i bet that there are more tragic accidents each year involving jackass kids driving 4cylinder cars than there are well-off kids with BMW's.
Would it have made a difference if they had gotten him a WRX, or a Civic? Same situation could have occurred with one of those cars. What if it was a civic or WRX and the kid went out and bought a turbo for it, should the parents still be at fault?
Would it have made a difference if they had gotten him a WRX, or a Civic? Same situation could have occurred with one of those cars. What if it was a civic or WRX and the kid went out and bought a turbo for it, should the parents still be at fault?
06-21-2010, 02:10 PM
#84
Registered Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Long Island N.Y.
Age: 58
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
I have been reading this thread for a few days now. I have to say I do not agree with some of the negative posts. Imo something happened to this kid on his way down the track. Key words are no brake lights at the end of the track. For those of you that have ever done drag racing you know that those first few passes are the most adrenaline passes a new driver will ever make. Maybe a seizure idk but something happened on that pass. If he shorted out it most definitely was nothing to do with age. I am one of those people that had fast cars since I was 14. My first ride was a 65 mustang coupe with a 289 Hi-Po (k series) with a 4sp and a 411 posi rear. When I turned 16 I bought a 1970 Torino GT with a 429 CJ again 4sp and a 411 posi rear. When it was time to graduate I sold the Torino and bought a 67 Fairlane with a 427 4sp and a 389 Detroit locker rear. I never crashed ever. I had the cars I wanted at an early age because I was somewhat responsible. Another point that I think that should be made is that it was a newer Corvette. It is not like it is a scary ride down a track. Most drivers lose the car in the first 1/8 mile the second half is usually uneventful. The Corvette is fast but smooth not something that would get away from you and crash at the end, just don't see it.
06-21-2010, 04:17 PM
#85
Banned
Meaning he HAS insurance, they have paid for it, but the insurance company is trying to not cover the rehab saying it wont help.
And NO where did i say it was smart to give a 16 yearold a 1000 hp supercar, I just asked WHO YOU WERE to judge who should and shouldnt have one??? For all we know this kid could have started driving 400+ hp racecars when he was 14 and have MORE talent than all of us!
So you really think that his destroyed Corvette was covered by insurance on a racetrack? That's what I was talking about. Get real.
Unfortunately Saintor's delivery might not be the best BUT...
the parents most certainly assume a large portion of the blame.
How could anyone possibly say they don't?
the parents most certainly assume a large portion of the blame.
How could anyone possibly say they don't?
Unfortunately good judgment was an option and not that many bipeds were ordered with it as we can see here.
Last edited by Saintor; 06-21-2010 at 04:22 PM.
06-21-2010, 06:47 PM
#86
Senior Moderator
Coulda, shoulda, woulda.... you have zero clue of that. My extreme example jsut shows that your argument doesn't hold water and that there is a limit.
So you really think that his destroyed Corvette was covered by insurance on a racetrack? That's what I was talking about. Get real.
.
So you really think that his destroyed Corvette was covered by insurance on a racetrack? That's what I was talking about. Get real.
.
And why in the world would you be talking about the insurance not covering the car when that was NEVER a issue. The article was talking about HEALTH insurance.
06-21-2010, 07:55 PM
#87
Banned
And you have ZERO clue of that and your argument is just out there with no bearing nor a good example on this unfortunate accident. . NO one knows what happened, but to come out blaming the dad is stupid and a ignorant statement!
And why in the world would you be talking about the insurance not covering the car when that was NEVER a issue. The article was talking about HEALTH insurance.
And why in the world would you be talking about the insurance not covering the car when that was NEVER a issue. The article was talking about HEALTH insurance.
I don't care what the article is about neither did I refer to it. I merely mentioned insurance and *you* chose to have a limited view of it.
NO one knows what happened
06-21-2010, 08:23 PM
#88
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (3)
I don't care what the article is about neither did I refer to it. I merely mentioned insurance and *you* chose to have a limited view of it.
Not true. The kid crashed his car and nobody did it at his place, nothing suggests malfunction (cars have black boxes now). Too much car for him and obvious lack of experience. Not necessary to split hair. KISS.
Not true. The kid crashed his car and nobody did it at his place, nothing suggests malfunction (cars have black boxes now). Too much car for him and obvious lack of experience. Not necessary to split hair. KISS.
06-21-2010, 09:04 PM
#89
Senior Moderator
Parents didn't do their job and apparently, they are not alone having poor judgment. There will be more kids harmed indirectly by their wannabe-cool "parents". Sorry but that's not parenting.
This reminds me the accident 2 years ago in which a 18yo kid killed four friends + himself on a private airport runway (close to John Travolta) because their retarded parent thought that it would be a cool idea to buy him a 500HP BMW M5.
On June 26th 2001 ten miles from here on highway 15, a youngster crashed his new Porsche 911 (bought by his millionaire wannabe-cool dad) killing all 3 kids aboard when he just lost control at probably close to 250km/h (according to coroner's report).
There is a reason why insurances rates are not the same at 18 and 25+. *Parents should know better*.
This reminds me the accident 2 years ago in which a 18yo kid killed four friends + himself on a private airport runway (close to John Travolta) because their retarded parent thought that it would be a cool idea to buy him a 500HP BMW M5.
On June 26th 2001 ten miles from here on highway 15, a youngster crashed his new Porsche 911 (bought by his millionaire wannabe-cool dad) killing all 3 kids aboard when he just lost control at probably close to 250km/h (according to coroner's report).
There is a reason why insurances rates are not the same at 18 and 25+. *Parents should know better*.
If the parents had the money to buy a Corvette for the kid, that's their business. If they thought their son deserved the corvette, then that's their business. There are aspects of their lives that we do not know nor understand. To put the blame on them is just ignorant.
From what I have personally seen, some kids do deserve these cars and DO have the proper judgment to keep them in control, some even more control then adults 2x or 3x their age!
When most of you think of a 16 year old with a corvette, you think of some spoiled brat with no decency, right? Well how many of you have though about those who do deserve it, kids who graduate Valedictorians with 4.35 GPA's and kids who have respect for their belongings? How many of you have though about kids who have made achievements that have lead to recognition in the community? How many have you have though about kids who have put in close to 1000 hours of community service of their free will? I doubt many of you have, and especially those making such idiotic statements.
06-21-2010, 09:45 PM
#90
It's called PIP - personal injury protection. And it's healthcare specific to motor vehicle accidents.
The auto insurance has the right to deny claims at any stage. In fact, the insurance company I worked for specifically spells out that accidents occurring on a race track will not be covered. I've never been on a racetrack, but I'm guessing you sign up for additional insurance to protect your property?
This kid is lucky the auto insurance covered everything up until rehab - they probably didn't have to. I'd venture to say he's maxxed out the policy by now anyway. And any additional payment from the car insurance co is within their jurisdiction at this point.
06-21-2010, 10:17 PM
#91
Disinformation Terminator
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NorCal
Age: 55
Posts: 1,930
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
06-21-2010, 11:16 PM
#93
Punk Rocker
Yea, but thats going by the assumption that the car was the reason for the accident. Like said above, i bet that there are more tragic accidents each year involving jackass kids driving 4cylinder cars than there are well-off kids with BMW's.
Would it have made a difference if they had gotten him a WRX, or a Civic? Same situation could have occurred with one of those cars. What if it was a civic or WRX and the kid went out and bought a turbo for it, should the parents still be at fault?
Would it have made a difference if they had gotten him a WRX, or a Civic? Same situation could have occurred with one of those cars. What if it was a civic or WRX and the kid went out and bought a turbo for it, should the parents still be at fault?
It is a parent's responsiblity to judge the risks involved with any activity and then decide if allowing their child's involvement in such activity is worth the risk. IMO letting my 18 y/o son (no matter what his skill level) race a Corvette on a track is just an unacceptable risk. That may be old-fashioned but my kid wouldn't end up with brain damage either....
06-21-2010, 11:56 PM
#94
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Having a V8 powered Corvette or not, a younger driver is bound to make a mistake behind the wheel. Hell I've only been driving for 5 years and I know I've made numerous mistakes behind the wheel. Mistakes are a part of learning. Sometimes those mistakes are minor like bumping a curb or running over a trash can. Unfortunately sometimes they have terrible consequences, like what happened with this kid for example.
06-22-2010, 06:35 AM
#95
Senior Moderator
I don't care what the article is about neither did I refer to it. I merely mentioned insurance and *you* chose to have a limited view of it.
Not true. The kid crashed his car and nobody did it at his place, nothing suggests malfunction (cars have black boxes now). Too much car for him and obvious lack of experience. Not necessary to split hair. KISS.
Not true. The kid crashed his car and nobody did it at his place, nothing suggests malfunction (cars have black boxes now). Too much car for him and obvious lack of experience. Not necessary to split hair. KISS.
Why would you talk about something that is irrelevant to the discussion?
06-22-2010, 06:37 AM
#96
Senior Moderator
Actually your car insurance has health insurance on it. In some states it is an additional optional coverage. In some states it is mandatory.
It's called PIP - personal injury protection. And it's healthcare specific to motor vehicle accidents.
The auto insurance has the right to deny claims at any stage. In fact, the insurance company I worked for specifically spells out that accidents occurring on a race track will not be covered. I've never been on a racetrack, but I'm guessing you sign up for additional insurance to protect your property?
This kid is lucky the auto insurance covered everything up until rehab - they probably didn't have to. I'd venture to say he's maxxed out the policy by now anyway. And any additional payment from the car insurance co is within their jurisdiction at this point.
It's called PIP - personal injury protection. And it's healthcare specific to motor vehicle accidents.
The auto insurance has the right to deny claims at any stage. In fact, the insurance company I worked for specifically spells out that accidents occurring on a race track will not be covered. I've never been on a racetrack, but I'm guessing you sign up for additional insurance to protect your property?
This kid is lucky the auto insurance covered everything up until rehab - they probably didn't have to. I'd venture to say he's maxxed out the policy by now anyway. And any additional payment from the car insurance co is within their jurisdiction at this point.
06-22-2010, 06:53 AM
#97
Senior Moderator
So, whats your point? That we should give all the jackasses with 4-cylinder cars Corvettes? Sure there are instances where young drivers are given high hp cars and never have an issue. The point I am making is that the likelihood of this kid being a studious and responsible track driver as opposed to a typical "I can do anything I want" 18 y/o dipshit is very low.
It is a parent's responsiblity to judge the risks involved with any activity and then decide if allowing their child's involvement in such activity is worth the risk. IMO letting my 18 y/o son (no matter what his skill level) race a Corvette on a track is just an unacceptable risk. That may be old-fashioned but my kid wouldn't end up with brain damage either....
It is a parent's responsiblity to judge the risks involved with any activity and then decide if allowing their child's involvement in such activity is worth the risk. IMO letting my 18 y/o son (no matter what his skill level) race a Corvette on a track is just an unacceptable risk. That may be old-fashioned but my kid wouldn't end up with brain damage either....
Sure, why dont we buy them all ZR1s The point was is that some are jumping on the Car or the Parents were the root cause of this when it COULD HAVE HAPPENED with ANY car he was driving. Shit it could happen with that bright and shiny bicycle you buy him for his birthday.
His parents showed GREAT responsibility to bring him to the track to do his racing. Would it make a difference to you if this had happened in a Prius instead? Every one is blaming his lack of experience, parents and the car when it could have been a medical issue that caused it (which kinda sounds like it could be the issue since brakes were never applied)
So for you what are the age levels for people to drive vehicles of different calibers?
Last edited by fsttyms1; 06-22-2010 at 06:56 AM.
06-22-2010, 08:07 AM
#98
I think this page just confirms what Saintor is all about and that people should not be baited to discuss anything with him.I don't care what the article is about neither did I refer to it. I merely mentioned insurance and *you* chose to have a limited view of it.
Not true. The kid crashed his car and nobody did it at his place, nothing suggests malfunction (cars have black boxes now). Too much car for him and obvious lack of experience. Not necessary to split hair. KISS.
Not true. The kid crashed his car and nobody did it at his place, nothing suggests malfunction (cars have black boxes now). Too much car for him and obvious lack of experience. Not necessary to split hair. KISS.
for not reading the article. The accident is still under investigation b/c there clearly is something that suggests either mechanical malfunction or possibly a medical condition (kid blacked out during the run):
The Jupiter man who was paired with Bicknell for the race said he saw no brake lights as the car entered the gravel pit.
.
Last edited by juniorbean; 06-22-2010 at 08:09 AM.
06-22-2010, 08:12 AM
#99
EXACTLY. It's not your responsibility to judge, or anyone's responsibility to judge. Again, we don't know for sure what the kid's level is, however, for argument's sake let's assume he is a highly skilled and trained driver. At that point his parents would not see this as a risk. Him driving a Vette which he had owned and driven for over 2 years down a dragstrip in a controlled environment would be the exact same as me driving my 3.0CL down a dragstrip during a Honda/Acura event ~12 years ago.
06-22-2010, 08:57 AM
#100
Registered Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Long Island N.Y.
Age: 58
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
I was reading through some more of the info on this. I found something very interesting. He wasn't wearing a helmet. That seems to be a fail on everyone's part including the track officials. I haven't done any drag racing in about 5 years but if I remember correctly NHRA rules insist that you wear a helmet for any car that runs 14's or faster. The Corvette no doubt should be in that range. That being said the helmet is inspected along with the car before being allowed to run. They check the helmet to make sure it is snell approved and not just a dot helmet. They also look again to make sure the belts are on and the strap for the helmet is being used before you stage the car. From what I got out of it it seems he crashed the wall on the way down and knocked himself out then unfortunately was just along for the ride.
On another note it seems that there is a charity drive for him this weekend.http://www.caseybicknell.com/ I will be sure to donate to help out this man and hope for him to get well.
On another note it seems that there is a charity drive for him this weekend.http://www.caseybicknell.com/ I will be sure to donate to help out this man and hope for him to get well.
06-22-2010, 09:33 AM
#101
Senior Moderator
Which in any case it wouldnt have mattered if he was driving a Accord, or if he was 40 years old.
06-22-2010, 11:27 AM
#102
I think most of you just don't agree with saintor on his delivery of his opinion.
obviously it's not fair to pinpoint this on anybody as nobody would ever wanted this to have happened. but at the heart of it, the parents hold a large proportion of the responsibility.
obviously it's not fair to pinpoint this on anybody as nobody would ever wanted this to have happened. but at the heart of it, the parents hold a large proportion of the responsibility.
06-22-2010, 01:12 PM
#103
Pro
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DC
Age: 40
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was reading through some more of the info on this. I found something very interesting. He wasn't wearing a helmet. That seems to be a fail on everyone's part including the track officials. I haven't done any drag racing in about 5 years but if I remember correctly NHRA rules insist that you wear a helmet for any car that runs 14's or faster. The Corvette no doubt should be in that range. That being said the helmet is inspected along with the car before being allowed to run. They check the helmet to make sure it is snell approved and not just a dot helmet. They also look again to make sure the belts are on and the strap for the helmet is being used before you stage the car. From what I got out of it it seems he crashed the wall on the way down and knocked himself out then unfortunately was just along for the ride.
On another note it seems that there is a charity drive for him this weekend.http://www.caseybicknell.com/ I will be sure to donate to help out this man and hope for him to get well.
On another note it seems that there is a charity drive for him this weekend.http://www.caseybicknell.com/ I will be sure to donate to help out this man and hope for him to get well.
Now you go to a drap strip in Indianapolis, IRP ( Indianapolis raceway park ) and anything below 14 helmet was required, below 13 harness, and below 12 rollcage...don't quote me.
if its an NHRA track like IRP in indianapolis, then maybe helmets are required...Not sure if the track this kid was on was a private one or NHRA/.
Last edited by Fireguy0826; 06-22-2010 at 01:15 PM.
06-22-2010, 03:48 PM
#104
Banned
*I don't think so*.
06-22-2010, 04:03 PM
#105
Banned
for not reading the article. The accident is still under investigation b/c there clearly is something that suggests either mechanical malfunction or possibly a medical condition (kid blacked out during the run):Read the article next time before you continue to spit diarrhea from your mouth....
Junior, stop making up things along. Entertain us and tell me exactly where it says clearly that officials have suspicion of either mechanical malfunction or possibly a medical condition.
The fact that he hypothetically never touched the brakes doesn't prove anything. It was his first pass and he misjudged the situation. Accidents happen, just much more frequently among kids. Ask insurance companies.
Hey... a 400+HP Corvette, a spoiled kid and its first pass ever on a dragstrip.... what could go wrong?
Last edited by Saintor; 06-22-2010 at 04:10 PM.
06-22-2010, 04:37 PM
#106
I dont know what these parents were thinking giving someone who's not skilled/mature a Vette and then turning him loose on a speedway. Although it was dumb, I still feel bad for the family and kid...
And Insurance companies....i won't even start. Someone can recover a lot of function w/ rehab after a TBI.
http://www.wpbf.com/news/23920525/detail.html
And Insurance companies....i won't even start. Someone can recover a lot of function w/ rehab after a TBI.
http://www.wpbf.com/news/23920525/detail.html
06-22-2010, 04:41 PM
#107
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Such at tragedy at a young age, my heart goes out to the family. TBI is a very though thing to face. However, the father is a Dolt. How do you buy your 18 year old such an extreme sports car for his birthday? C6? whats wrong with a Honda civic SI? Also how, do you let your 18 year old son, take the vette to some motorspeed way like that?
06-22-2010, 05:20 PM
#108
Pro
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DC
Age: 40
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes by some starndards he might have been spoiled, but who are you judge that? His parents are fourtunate enough to be able to give their son a nice car. If your parents had given you a corvette on your 16th birthday i bet you would be singing a different tune.
If you go to his website this kid was was a honor student with a 4.2gpa, lettered in athletics, took college credit courses before he graduated highschool and going to school to be a civil engineer. It says he wanted to race his corvette in a controled race track setting.The parents took their son to a rack track to enjoy his car. Would you have rather have seen this on the street? How many kids in your statistics are killed or hurt on a rack track VS the street????
06-22-2010, 05:28 PM
#109
The more I read your posts, the more convinced I am that you are not really all that concerned with younger people having fast cars as you are than others having something you don't have or didn't have at the same age. It seems as if you have some hostility, whatever the reason, to anyone you feel to be "undeserving" of such an automobile.
Terry
Last edited by teranfon; 06-22-2010 at 05:47 PM.
06-22-2010, 05:30 PM
#110
Banned
The parents took their son to a rack track to enjoy his car. Would you have rather have seen this on the street? How many kids in your statistics are killed or hurt on a rack track VS the street???
t seems as if you have some hostility, whatever the reason, to anyone you feel to be "undeserving" of such an automobile.
Last edited by Saintor; 06-22-2010 at 05:33 PM.
06-22-2010, 05:37 PM
#111
06-22-2010, 05:45 PM
#112
Pro
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DC
Age: 40
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually you are right. Good thing that *if unfortunately he had to lose control and crash*, he did it on a racetrack instead on the road and hurting somebody else. It changes nothing to the irresponsibly of the father to have enabled this situation.
I said it and repeat for people who don't understand on first time; I blame the creep father, *not the kid*.
I said it and repeat for people who don't understand on first time; I blame the creep father, *not the kid*.
Every teen killed in a car accident, corvette or 1986 minivan..
its the parents fault, because you know what...they gave their kid a death trap car. Just because its a corvette is
irrelevant, i'm sure more kids are killed in other make and models cars than corvettes, but i don't see you making remarks about the kid who crashed his 1992 accord or any other brand of car?
I think your argument has more to do with the " corvette ", rather than the whole incident, because i believe that you think its wrong for a 18 year old kid to have one, thus why you think the parents are to blame. If this kid had been driving a civic, you'd more than likely be saying something different...but what do i know...
06-22-2010, 07:24 PM
#114
Senior Moderator
06-22-2010, 07:27 PM
#115
Senior Moderator
Actually you are right. Good thing that *if unfortunately he had to lose control and crash*, he did it on a racetrack instead on the road and hurting somebody else. It changes nothing to the irresponsibly of the father to have enabled this situation.
I said it and repeat for people who don't understand on first time; I blame the creep father, *not the kid*.
I said it and repeat for people who don't understand on first time; I blame the creep father, *not the kid*.
And what is a good age vs hp. I would like to see a break down from the all knowing?
06-22-2010, 07:34 PM
#116
Senior Moderator
Such at tragedy at a young age, my heart goes out to the family. TBI is a very though thing to face. However, the father is a Dolt. How do you buy your 18 year old such an extreme sports car for his birthday? C6? whats wrong with a Honda civic SI? Also how, do you let your 18 year old son, take the vette to some motorspeed way like that?
Its easy to let them. Especially when you trust and have faith that they are competent and know what they are doing. Why do you assume the kid (adult because he is 18 afterall) cant handle the car? I know people who started out 1/4 mile racing when they were 16 with far more powerful vehicles than that vette. By time one of them was 18 he was driving a 800hp mustang. Are his parents bad parents for encouraging him and letting him do something he likes? Hes now 34 and driving 1100+hp cars now.
06-22-2010, 07:35 PM
#117
7th Gear
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you would think if the parents had the 60k to buy the vette, they can pay the 1200/day doctor bill.. i feel sorry for the boy... and that's the thing.. he's a boy.. the dad should of said no to the racing..
the comments im seeing in this thread continue to amaze me. one of many moronic statements.
06-22-2010, 07:43 PM
#119
Banned
that it is explained to you.
06-22-2010, 07:45 PM
#120
Banned
Because it is pointless to discuss with you. Whatever the answer would have to be explained many times to you, as we just observed.
Last edited by Saintor; 06-22-2010 at 07:48 PM.