youngTL

I personally don't think it's worth the penalty of extra weight and decreased fuel economy.

corey415

Doesnt snow where I live, so no.

dom

Nice on snow days.

Bdog

For me... yes, for my wife...no! Even if it's my daily driver, I will get the use out of AWD on the weekends.

derrick

In Edmonton, I would definitely consider AWD. How far are you commuting? Safety over a couple bucks in fuel economy per tank ... not even a consideration. Besides ... Alberta has TONS of oil. You don't have to worry that much about prices, right? (It's C$0.866/L in Windsor).

youngTL

Actually, they export all our oil, so we pay still a lot. It's C$0.987/L for 91 octane (which my car needs). I move about 40km a day. But so far, FWD+snow tires has been really good to me. Not even close to an accident. I would rather save the money on gas. I don't really think that AWD is THAT much safer. I drive over 400km a week, so even if a car uses an extra 2L/100km (typical of AWD systems), I would lose over $8 a week. $416 a year is a lot of money for someone who makes $8 an hour in a job during the school year(much more during the summer).

I just drive slower and take corners slower in the winter.

iTimmy

I don't like the way most AWD cars feel when driving, they just feel weird. For a daily driver car I'd preffer FWD.

Also having studied winter time accidents the only thing AWD helps with is getting you going, I don't know many winter time accidents that happen because you can't get down your driveway. Bottom line to me is if you can't make it down your driveway without AWD you shouldn't be out there. AWD creates a false sense of security because you can get going but it does NOTHING to help you stop or turn(unless your into AWD drifts - which can be fun but is not safe). If your driving in snow there is nothing better then a good snow tire to achieve traction and be safe.

jz-97-c7

i was gonna say the same thing but we took a power hit...it's the same for fl

Crazy Bimmer

Naw not worth it.

GIBSON6594

Those are pretty one-sided poll options


I voted yes, AWD is always better IMO

youngTL

I think it's overrated in the winter. I've been driving Canadian winters for 5 years now without issue.

1killercls

If you get snow and ice I would think yes. But, I have only lived in L.A., Phoenix and florida. :gheylaugh:

derrick

I'm not a big fan of AWD due to some of the maintenance costs accumulated over time. FWD + snow tires are probably the way to go (at least down here in southern Ontario). Also surprised to hear how pricey gas is in Alta. Maybe you should have a referendum on lowering gas prices instead of tax break. (you don't pay PST on stuff as it is ...)

I'm surprised Crazy Sellout said no ... Audi owner and all.

Python2121

snow is the last reason i would concider awd. for NY winters i have never had a problem with all seasons and fwd of my acura (but i also dont drive like an idiot). AWD gives you more control in the snow, but for a daily driver its not worth it, as they are supposed to be reliable, and get good milage, where awd combats both of those things.

i would love awd in a powerful regular daily driver, so if you have the money, go nuts

iTimmy

I would have to disagree with that, it gives you a false sense of control. This is due to how it is marketed and these marketing guru's are making big money, but they are killing/injuring people by making them believe because they have AWD or 4WD they are unstoppable. I will admit this is more of a problem with wild SUV drivers, but it is being trickled down to the AWD car segment as well. Argueing AWD from a winter stand point is a poor defense for its merits.

Besides you can't launch an AWD car right, who wants that??

mattg

^ you've got to be kidding me

heyitsme

I think the biggest thing against an awd commuter for me is there really aren't a wide selection of cars to chose from, think the only one I'd be interested in is the Legacy.

I get by with fwd but there are times I wish I did have AWD. It comes up when its raining. I'm sitting at a stop sign etc., waiting to make a right turn into traffic, theres an opening, I go for it and the front wheels start to slip making the entrance in traffic a little closer than I would like.

For snow, I dunno, never had the chance to drive an awd car in the snow. I'd like to test one making turns around corners to see how power on all 4 tires effects turning on slick surfaces. I have fish tailed a light fwd around a turn at very low speeds where I think awd would have just powered through it. I have driven an awd navigator in the snow, and it blew my car away as far as terms of stability, but I think the majority of that had to do with the weight of the vehicle combined with the tires being pressed to the pavement.

Overall, if I did end up driving a lot in the winter, I think I opt for snow tires rather than awd.

Ken1997TL

A FWD car with snow tires is good enough 99% of the time. If you're a careful driver and dont do anything stupid you'll be just fine.

AWD is there for bad traction conditions during slow speeds. Past 20 mph or so, AWD doesnt offer any advantages IMO (except for performance situations)

iTimmy

Why would I be kidding you?

CLpower

WOW

CLpower

and how much do AWD cars really effect fuel economy? And the extra weight isn't much


This poll is retarded

iTimmy

If you ever saw the way the typical SUV driver drives in snow, you would be singing a different tune. Did you know that 52% of all fatal winter time accidents involve SUV's? The statistics are alarming.... but your right, its much easier to just

iTimmy

I am in pretty good shape, and I don't think I could lift all of the components going to the rear driveline(seeing as most AWD cars are based on FWD platforms, the added weight would be what's going to the rear). This would include in some cases a transfercase - and in all cases a rear driveshaft, a rear differential, 2 CV axles(or a straight rearend, like you see on a rear wheel drive car), heavier more complicated rear wheel bearings, extra sheetmetal, larger surface area fueltank, re-routing the exhaust resulting in extra tubing being used... So yes most of these things are small, but little things add up in a big hurry. And this isn't even getting into the reduced effiecency of the engines power due to transfering power to both front and rear wheels, most AWD systems use a viscous coupler of some sort which just eats up power prior to being engaged. Then we're not even getting into maintnance costs, just ask how happy an A4 quattro owner is when they have to replace a rear wheel bearing, then see the price difference to a front track A4 - the difference in price will be roughly $500 per side.

Now I guess I am nominated for the summer ban games....

CLpower

the 2.0T FWD Audi is roughly 300 lighter then the quattro, which is weight, but not much.

CLpower

i'm not disagreeing w/ the data, but that's the dumb drivers fault. That has nothing to do w/ the benefits AWD provides


and yes, AWD cars can be launched, and frankly there isn't anything as exciting as launching an AWD car.

iTimmy

Yes AWD can fly out of the hole, but don't do it all the time, you'll be eating clutched like there's no tomorrow. I should have been more specefic with that first post regarding AWD launches, re-reading I can see how easily what I ment to say could be taken another way.

Infamous425

the a4 2.0 quattro gets the same if not better mpg than a tsx with 2.4 and fwd

Python2121

awd WILL GIVE YOU MORE CONTROL IN TEH SNOW, whether you overestimate that control is the drivers fault. sh-awd will give you more control on dry land.

though i have to agree that 300lb's is a lot of added weight, but in the case of the a4 all that weight isn't just the awd system, part of it is that with the quattro they add some more luxury featurs like sound deadening that weigh it down.

but more then add weight, it robbs you of some power, so to get the similar preformance you need to sacrifice fuel

edit: its still a 4 banger turbo, it will get good mileage

iTimmy

Ummm, above 20ish MPH nope it won't. Take your SH-AWD car and get going 60 and try making a turn in snow, do the same thing with FWD in the same situation and you'll have very similar results.

I've been to Ivalo, Finnland where Nokian's Tyre's test track is, they test these theories 7-8 months a year and take a stance about winter time safety unlike any other company I have seen. There level of understanding and research surrounding winter driving is second to none. If you still have doubts - well even if you don't have doubts - they set you out on there test track to learn for yourself. Until you've had a chance to compare many cars with consistent real world winter roads back to back to back, you really shouldn't make statements that have no merit.

They have FWD, RWD and AWD Volvo's, FWD and AWD VW's, FWD Saabs, RWD and AWD BMW's and RWD Mercedes-benz and they allow us to try all of these cars with various tire configurations.

Here's a link to a video of what goes on up there. I am not just some punk talking out of my ass, I've pushed cars to there limits and beyond in snow/ice and I know what works and what doesn't. The only problem with going to Ivalo is you want to drive like that when you come back! The video is pretty interesting,

http://www.nokiantires.com/newsite/M...yinthelife.wmv

The second video is more about tires but still has good footage of driving in Ivalo.

http://www.nokiantires.com/newsite/M...ealerVideo.jpg

Sorry for the

mattg

yep, AWD has no advantage over 20 mph.

youngTL

I agree with you that there is an advantage. This whole thing was finding out whether people think that advantage is worth it. We've got almost an even split, which to me tells me that it's a tough question with not a clear cut answer. Is it worth it to you? Yes. But is it worth it to me? No.

CLPowersWife

well, it depends if you launch it properly, I know plenty of people w/ many launches on AWD cars whose clutches are still in tact. You can just as easily tear up a clutch on a 2wd car as you can an AWD car if you abuse it.




that was CLpower

Shoofin

Good to have if you're in snowy climates and always driving in the white stuff

mattg

i think it all depends on where you live, and what you like to do in your free time. i live in Bend, OR. where we have snow in the winter. i like to snowboard as much as possible, and i also make a trip over the mountain pass to Portland at least once a month. so for me, it definately worth it.

i think advantages of all wheel drive are evident at any speed, whether you're accelerating, braking or turning. you think a fwd car is going to be able to accelerate as fast as my legacy after 20 mph in the snow? how about deceleration using engine braking? which car will be superior? even on corners, once your fwd starts to slide you're in trouble. with awd you can give it a little more gas to straighten it out.

Ken1997TL

It does.. on DRY GRIPPY surfaces. And even then.. its TIRE dependent. Once grip is lost.. you're fucked. But most people buy AWD thinking they'll be able to take their Navigator/Escalade/whathaveyou at 75 mph on the snowy freeway.

mattg

yeah, and the fact that AWD rally cars run on loose gravel and dirt surfaces at a much higher rate of speed than would be remotely possible in a FWD should tell you something.

the fact that every other car in Bend is a subaru should tell you something. it's not just a gimmick. AWD = in the rain, snow, gravel, dirt etc.

i'm not speaking for the SUV crowd. i'm talking about the audi/subaru type vehicles.

samkws

not to bash AWD or anything...

yes...AWD provides good traction in snow, but AWD cars doesn't stop any faster, since u won't go too far and fast in snow, our heavy TL with FWD will do the job and can pretty much go anywhere

plus AWD is pain in the ass when ur car needs to get towed for any reasons....can cost 50% more charge since they need to put all 4 wheels up

SC TL

"Is it worth it" is kind of a hard question to answer unless you are choosing a car that has options like a BMW 3, G35 sedan, Toyota SUV.

My wife has a FWD Highlander. We didn't think AWD was worth it for that vehicle and our intended uses. Drove it in a blizzard in Yosemite and it handled great.

If I were to buy a BMW 3 or a G35, I stick with RWD.

My car is a Legacy GT. In a sense, I didn't have a choice because it only comes in AWD. In terms of whether it was worth the premium compared to other cars, there wasn't a premium. All the other cars I would've considered (TL, G35, Audi A6) all cost considerably more than my Leg GT. I've never driven a 3rd Gen TL, so I can't compare it. But I can tell you that it is loads more fun than my 2nd gen TL ever was, and (until my tranny crapped out on me), I really liked my TL. AWD > FWD torque steer.

Rock2534

i agree with your point, but you have to separate the person from the car. Sure people get false sense of confidence in their 4wd suv's in the snow and then wind up in the ditch later cuz they can't stop, but that is the persons fault, not the car. An awd car should be driven with the same caution and speeds as a fwd car, it will just be an easier experience imo.

youngTL

You shouldn't be experience torque steer while you commute. My 176hp/170lb*ft tq 2.5TL is incapable of torque steer anyway, so that's not an issue for me. Something that might change my vote is if I'm looking for a car such as the G35. In that case, I would rather have AWD and take the fuel penalty because I just cannot handle RWD in the snow. I used to have a RWD 4Runner, and I put it in 4WD all the time in the winter because the back end would always slide out, even with snow tires. I was simply afraid to drive it in the winter without 4WD. But having a big heavy transfer case (300-400lbs) definately hurts fuel economy when you're driving a long distance every week. I totally don't care about how my commuter car launches. You don't launch in heavy traffic (well, at least I don't!). If I were to buy an Audi for commuting, I'd skip Quattro.