Audi A5 2.0T is finally here!
07-29-2009, 10:43 AM
#81
07-29-2009, 11:23 AM
#82
mmmmmm....
Thread Starter
07-29-2009, 11:52 AM
#83
I'm the Firestarter
i agree its overpriced, but its all relative to audi pricing in general.
and theres no point in arguing that it should be priced between audi x or audi y...audi pricing structure could range from base price to 150% base price with options, engine size, packages. shit, an a4 is what- ~30k to ~47k?
however, comparing one audi to a non-audi is always bank breaker. look at the units of comparison - HP, torque, luxury options, performance options. i am a very technical person when car shopping - i would never buy an audi. it disgusts me whenever i look closely at the dollar value of an audi - esp. in lease form. no, im not cheap, but theres a difference between being cheap and being smart with your money.
and those that justify paying top dollar for a stripped audi (40k 2.0T) for what? your non-performing 211 hp car with the same, or less, features you could find on any japanese/korean 20k car.
summary:
you want a real audi, then you gotta pay 10-15k+ over low-line base price to actually get that german luxury performance you are looking for. these base prices from audi are insulting, and a cheap way of watering down their pricing to enter a class/territory in which is doesnt belong.
and theres no point in arguing that it should be priced between audi x or audi y...audi pricing structure could range from base price to 150% base price with options, engine size, packages. shit, an a4 is what- ~30k to ~47k?
however, comparing one audi to a non-audi is always bank breaker. look at the units of comparison - HP, torque, luxury options, performance options. i am a very technical person when car shopping - i would never buy an audi. it disgusts me whenever i look closely at the dollar value of an audi - esp. in lease form. no, im not cheap, but theres a difference between being cheap and being smart with your money.
and those that justify paying top dollar for a stripped audi (40k 2.0T) for what? your non-performing 211 hp car with the same, or less, features you could find on any japanese/korean 20k car.
summary:
you want a real audi, then you gotta pay 10-15k+ over low-line base price to actually get that german luxury performance you are looking for. these base prices from audi are insulting, and a cheap way of watering down their pricing to enter a class/territory in which is doesnt belong.
A few days ago I sat in the A5 S-Line with the alcantara and aluminum interior and oh boy... that car blows any 3-series out of the water in terms of interior feel. No to mention the controls are better, slicker, you get more gadgets, and exterior styling is as good as the 3-series coupe. Who cares about 2 extra cylinders when performace is comparable and the interior, where you spend all your time with the car, is FAR superior?
07-29-2009, 12:59 PM
#85
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Yeah, who buys a bare bones S4?
Like someone else said, good luck finding a stripped down 2010 S4 on the dealer lot unless you ordered it. If the last generation (B7) is any indication, you're going to find S4's once again in the $53k+ range when the B8 arrives to dealerships. It's rare that cars actually get cheaper with new models.
Like someone else said, good luck finding a stripped down 2010 S4 on the dealer lot unless you ordered it. If the last generation (B7) is any indication, you're going to find S4's once again in the $53k+ range when the B8 arrives to dealerships. It's rare that cars actually get cheaper with new models.
07-29-2009, 01:09 PM
#86
Here is Canadian pricing released on the 2010 S4 and American prices are generally alot lower.
http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4b8/...s/57.phtml#271
The German brands seem this year to be offering more and dropping prices. Just look at the new E Series where its a new design and the price has dropped $6k.
07-29-2009, 01:19 PM
#87
mmmmmm....
Thread Starter
07-29-2009, 01:19 PM
#88
mmmmmm....
Thread Starter
It should be very close to $46-$47K.
Here is Canadian pricing released on the 2010 S4 and American prices are generally alot lower.
http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4b8/...s/57.phtml#271
The German brands seem this year to be offering more and dropping prices. Just look at the new E Series where its a new design and the price has dropped $6k.
Here is Canadian pricing released on the 2010 S4 and American prices are generally alot lower.
http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4b8/...s/57.phtml#271
The German brands seem this year to be offering more and dropping prices. Just look at the new E Series where its a new design and the price has dropped $6k.
07-29-2009, 01:37 PM
#90
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If the S4 is going to be in the mid-$50k like the previous version, that's still not a bad price. It would be icing on the cake if the price is actually in the $47k range. Many of the european tuners are already getting 400+ HP on this car. Audi needs to drop the 3.0 supercharged engine into the A5. Perhaps then there would be less talk of Audi's being too expensive compared to the competition.
07-29-2009, 01:58 PM
#91
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/02/2...e-for-winter/2
07-29-2009, 02:05 PM
#92
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http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/02/2...e-for-winter/2
07-29-2009, 03:05 PM
#93
When I was shopping for my Avant I made sure to check out the Audi and BMWs back to back. After sitting in the Audi, going to the BMW felt like going to a car that's $10,000 cheaper. Leather or no leather, the interior materials in the BMW just felt like crap compared to the Audi. Even without HIDs, you're still getting the high class interior so what's the problem. On paper the car is expensive, but you get quality for that money.
A few days ago I sat in the A5 S-Line with the alcantara and aluminum interior and oh boy... that car blows any 3-series out of the water in terms of interior feel. No to mention the controls are better, slicker, you get more gadgets, and exterior styling is as good as the 3-series coupe. Who cares about 2 extra cylinders when performace is comparable and the interior, where you spend all your time with the car, is FAR superior?
A few days ago I sat in the A5 S-Line with the alcantara and aluminum interior and oh boy... that car blows any 3-series out of the water in terms of interior feel. No to mention the controls are better, slicker, you get more gadgets, and exterior styling is as good as the 3-series coupe. Who cares about 2 extra cylinders when performace is comparable and the interior, where you spend all your time with the car, is FAR superior?
When you compare the Audi to its competitors its a good value and competitively priced. This is why im not sure why others are comparing the likes of Mazda, Subaru etc etc to a luxury car line. When you do this of course its going to look overpriced. Its like comparing a Buick Lacrosse to a 5 or 7 series and saying how much better value the Buick is.
When you compare premium brands like Acura and Infiniti to the German makes they are generally a few thousand less but when you look at the quality of materials etc you can start to see why, although Infiniti offers awesome performance for the price. What I find surprising is that when you price out a TL SHAWD 19" HPT to a comparable A4 2.0T Prestige with 19" sport pkg the difference is around $500-$1200 difference. Both cars perform the same and the A4 has nicer quality materials etc as a Tier 1 car should have compared to a premium line. IMO this alone would make me purchase the Audi (not even factoring in styling).
Its interesting to see the point you make about " Who cares about two extra cylinders when performance is comparable". The general NA public is still fixated on the fact that they wont pay a premium price for a car with less cylinders even though it will outperform a similar car with more cylinders.....It will be interesting when BMW introduces its 4cyl vehicles to the NA public soon and watch people complain about the price even though BMW will probably outperform its larger rivals.......The rest of the world has been seeing this for some time and hopefully our market will become better educated soon too.
07-29-2009, 03:07 PM
#94
It would be interesting though if they put a detuned version in the A5 like the 3.0T in the A6.
07-29-2009, 03:09 PM
#95
Exactley...
When you compare the Audi to its competitors its a good value and competitively priced. This is why im not sure why others are comparing the likes of Mazda, Subaru etc etc to a luxury car line. When you do this of course its going to look overpriced. Its like comparing a Buick Lacrosse to a 5 or 7 series and saying how much better value the Buick is.
When you compare premium brands like Acura and Infiniti to the German makes they are generally a few thousand less but when you look at the quality of materials etc you can start to see why, although Infiniti offers awesome performance for the price. What I find surprising is that when you price out a TL SHAWD 19" HPT to a comparable A4 2.0T Prestige with 19" sport pkg the difference is around $500-$1200 difference. Both cars perform the same and the A4 has nicer quality materials etc as a Tier 1 car should have compared to a premium line. IMO this alone would make me purchase the Audi (not even factoring in styling).
When you compare the Audi to its competitors its a good value and competitively priced. This is why im not sure why others are comparing the likes of Mazda, Subaru etc etc to a luxury car line. When you do this of course its going to look overpriced. Its like comparing a Buick Lacrosse to a 5 or 7 series and saying how much better value the Buick is.
When you compare premium brands like Acura and Infiniti to the German makes they are generally a few thousand less but when you look at the quality of materials etc you can start to see why, although Infiniti offers awesome performance for the price. What I find surprising is that when you price out a TL SHAWD 19" HPT to a comparable A4 2.0T Prestige with 19" sport pkg the difference is around $500-$1200 difference. Both cars perform the same and the A4 has nicer quality materials etc as a Tier 1 car should have compared to a premium line. IMO this alone would make me purchase the Audi (not even factoring in styling).
It's good to see someone gets it. I understand we're on an Acura forum, but still, that should not beat out common sense. Great reply.
07-29-2009, 03:15 PM
#96
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http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_up...sivl_long.html
I remember reading an article somewhere on the board that they are working on lightening the car up. If they can do that, and still keep the 2.0T in it, it's going to be a serious competitor for the G37, when chipped of course. It's already got the G37 beat in terms of looks.
07-29-2009, 03:38 PM
#97
I remember reading an article somewhere on the board that they are working on lightening the car up. If they can do that, and still keep the 2.0T in it, it's going to be a serious competitor for the G37, when chipped of course. It's already got the G37 beat in terms of looks.
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car...fours-car_news
Its a few years away but i like where they are going
07-29-2009, 03:44 PM
#98
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I think this is what you where reffering too.
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car...fours-car_news
Its a few years away but i like where they are going
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car...fours-car_news
Its a few years away but i like where they are going
The most interesting part...
Audi is currently testing a prototype of the next-generation S5 that weighs 880 pounds less than the current car.
07-29-2009, 03:55 PM
#99
Senior Moderator
I understand a lot of people feel the A5 is underpowered. i was one of them when it was being offered with the 3.2, but now that the 2.0T is offered with a slight bump in torque, I no longer am concerned of it's lack of power. Primarily because if I owned one and wanted the power I'd simply chip it....
http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_up...sivl_long.html
I remember reading an article somewhere on the board that they are working on lightening the car up. If they can do that, and still keep the 2.0T in it, it's going to be a serious competitor for the G37, when chipped of course. It's already got the G37 beat in terms of looks.
Even with a chip, its still slower for what the competition (G37) has. Chipped 2.0t A4 does the 1/4 in high 13s/ low 14s? Not saying its not fast but you comparing a modded car to a stock G37 which is already faster in stock form!
As much as I loved my Audi, you would still never see me in a 2.0t that cost over $40k! Even if it was a BMW...
Yes interior materials is some of the best in the industry but I personally do more driving than stroking my dash.
Now the engine in the new S4/S5 is
worthy.
07-29-2009, 04:13 PM
#100
The 2.0T would need a new chip and a new turbo kit to get in the 335i acceleration
range. This would cost an extra $6000. You might as well get a 335i and get a $600
chip that could get you in the high 11s.
range. This would cost an extra $6000. You might as well get a 335i and get a $600
chip that could get you in the high 11s.
07-29-2009, 04:27 PM
#101
mmmmmm....
Thread Starter
link? where you getting this number? I doubt that 390rwhp will hit 11 sec.
07-29-2009, 05:34 PM
#102
Safety Car
its one thing to overlook the lack of features after feeling the quality of the fit and finish of the interior...but to have a underpowered engine to boot really makes you scratch your head as to what youre paying for.
i hear what you guys are saying about paying for quality on bmw/audi. but you are not only paying for 1. luxury quality, but for 2. german engineering
whats the point of paying big bucks ~200 HP, overweight, unperforming car when the you are paying top dollar for 'german engineering'?? the only engineering youre paying for is the manual seats, b/c the electric seats were part of a $1,500 package.
Last edited by ThermonMermon; 07-29-2009 at 05:38 PM.
07-29-2009, 05:43 PM
#103
Safety Car
typo - *big bucks on a ~200 HP, overweight underperforming*
and im not bashing audi and bmw owners. im bashing those who buy stripped, low engine versions. you want german engineering and quality, while getting the luxury items that SHOULD be part of the deal, then you are looking at a 50k+ A5, not a $40k 2.0T. i dont understand the reasoning behind these watered down german cars...
and im not bashing audi and bmw owners. im bashing those who buy stripped, low engine versions. you want german engineering and quality, while getting the luxury items that SHOULD be part of the deal, then you are looking at a 50k+ A5, not a $40k 2.0T. i dont understand the reasoning behind these watered down german cars...
Last edited by ThermonMermon; 07-29-2009 at 05:47 PM.
07-29-2009, 05:55 PM
#104
I drive a Subata.
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Back it up with some real juicy facts if you find any.
I just couldn't stop myself from being a dick to you after realizing how dumb your post is. F'king ridiculous.
07-29-2009, 06:06 PM
#105
Why dont you go check out Burger Motosports and the numbers that there
juice box has produced. You can also check out the numbers by doing
a search of 335i on dragtimes.com
Here's your info, fuck face.
07-29-2009, 06:28 PM
#106
fuck face
07-29-2009, 06:33 PM
#107
07-29-2009, 06:34 PM
#108
Senior Moderator
Not really false claims but not all that realistic. Most of the 335i guys are running low to mid 12s on pump gas with street tires.
The guys who hit high 11s are using race gas with drag radials. Its also not all that common. So it would take more than just $600 to hit high 11s.
07-29-2009, 06:49 PM
#109
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Not really false claims but not all that realistic. Most of the 335i guys are running low to mid 12s on pump gas with street tires.
The guys who hit high 11s are using race gas with drag radials. Its also not all that common. So it would take more than just $600 to hit high 11s.
The guys who hit high 11s are using race gas with drag radials. Its also not all that common. So it would take more than just $600 to hit high 11s.
Most tune only cars I've seen are mid to high twelves.(even some low 13s, but I think those guys just don't know how to drive) Still a great deal for the performance and now that GIAC is in the game i'm looking at a 135 for my next ride with a reflash.
Back on the topic of the 2.0t it's definitely not that quick but didn't the last C&D comparo have a 2.0t a4 nearly as quick the tls awd 3.7 in standing start acceleration and much faster in passing situations? With a reflash the a4/a5 2.0t will be much quicker than the TL 3.7 which I wouldn't consider a slow car.
Last edited by TinkySD; 07-29-2009 at 06:51 PM. Reason: blah
07-29-2009, 09:09 PM
#110
I drive a Subata.
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07-31-2009, 04:47 AM
#112
Even with a chip, its still slower for what the competition (G37) has. Chipped 2.0t A4 does the 1/4 in high 13s/ low 14s? Not saying its not fast but you comparing a modded car to a stock G37 which is already faster in stock form!
As much as I loved my Audi, you would still never see me in a 2.0t that cost over $40k! Even if it was a BMW...
Yes interior materials is some of the best in the industry but I personally do more driving than stroking my dash.
Now the engine in the new S4/S5 is worthy.
As much as I loved my Audi, you would still never see me in a 2.0t that cost over $40k! Even if it was a BMW...
Yes interior materials is some of the best in the industry but I personally do more driving than stroking my dash.
Now the engine in the new S4/S5 is
worthy.funny, but valid point.
its one thing to overlook the lack of features after feeling the quality of the fit and finish of the interior...but to have a underpowered engine to boot really makes you scratch your head as to what youre paying for.
i hear what you guys are saying about paying for quality on bmw/audi. but you are not only paying for 1. luxury quality, but for 2. german engineering
whats the point of paying big bucks ~200 HP, overweight, unperforming car when the you are paying top dollar for 'german engineering'?? the only engineering youre paying for is the manual seats, b/c the electric seats were part of a $1,500 package.
its one thing to overlook the lack of features after feeling the quality of the fit and finish of the interior...but to have a underpowered engine to boot really makes you scratch your head as to what youre paying for.
i hear what you guys are saying about paying for quality on bmw/audi. but you are not only paying for 1. luxury quality, but for 2. german engineering
whats the point of paying big bucks ~200 HP, overweight, unperforming car when the you are paying top dollar for 'german engineering'?? the only engineering youre paying for is the manual seats, b/c the electric seats were part of a $1,500 package.
I'm not going to spend another $3-5000+ in part because of "interior materials" comparing to the other manufacturers. I'd rather spend $2000 on a package that includes navigation, Bluetooth, etc. and save several grand in the process on something tangible that adds to the driving experience rather than something assumed that comes with a certain brand of cars. The Quattro system affords more traction but the lightweight steering is too reminiscent of the steering in my sister's Lexus. Makes it feel like I'm playing some hyper-realistic driving simulator rather than actually driving a car
A nice car no doubt, but IMO if I'm going to choose from one of the "Big 3" German brands it would have to be BMW. Not to mention comparing the A5 3.2 (as apples-to-apples as it gets, plus the 2.0T isn't available for customizing yet) to the 328i coupe with similar options, the A5 is more expensive!
Depends on what you want in a car and your budget I suppose.
07-31-2009, 06:49 AM
#113
GEEZER
So...in closing. NOT WORTH IT!
07-31-2009, 10:20 AM
#116
I know you're a former Audi guy... so I should know the answer to this... but have you driven a 2.0T Audi? We had a 2.0T B7 A4 and when she would bring the car in for maintenence, many times she got a 3.2 B7 A4 as a loaner. Between the two, it was not even close... the 2.0T was sooooo much more fun to drive.... plus, she would regularly get 33-35mpg in the 2.0T.
If I had to choose between the two, even at the same price... I'd choose the 2.0T every time...
If I had to choose between the two, even at the same price... I'd choose the 2.0T every time...
07-31-2009, 11:00 AM
#118
Senior Moderator
I know you're a former Audi guy... so I should know the answer to this... but have you driven a 2.0T Audi? We had a 2.0T B7 A4 and when she would bring the car in for maintenence, many times she got a 3.2 B7 A4 as a loaner. Between the two, it was not even close... the 2.0T was sooooo much more fun to drive.... plus, she would regularly get 33-35mpg in the 2.0T.
If I had to choose between the two, even at the same price... I'd choose the 2.0T every time...
If I had to choose between the two, even at the same price... I'd choose the 2.0T every time...
Its a great car no doubt. Best 4 cylinder engine i ever driven and leaps and bounds better than the old 1.8t even when modded. Its a beautiful car inside and out and feels like a premium car outside of the engine. My issue is the price. I think there are other cars out there for over $40k that offer more in terms of driving experience.
I also understand people have different priorities when buying a car. 2.0t is great for those who want decent daily driving power and want the most out of their gas mileage while doing so. Just to me, pushing that 2.0t engine to the limits is not very fun. Low end torque is perfect for a DD though.
Handling wise its a different story since i think that chassis is wonderful.
Audi engines in general never really impressed me too much. If they improved that and the steering then the car would be PERFECT in my eyes.
I could totally picture myself in the new S5.
07-31-2009, 02:06 PM
#119
My Garage
Yes, when i had my A4 in for service they gave me a 2.0t A4 when they were first released. Even put about 100 miles on it.
Its a great car no doubt. Best 4 cylinder engine i ever driven and leaps and bounds better than the old 1.8t even when modded. Its a beautiful car inside and out and feels like a premium car outside of the engine. My issue is the price. I think there are other cars out there for over $40k that offer more in terms of driving experience.
I also understand people have different priorities when buying a car. 2.0t is great for those who want decent daily driving power and want the most out of their gas mileage while doing so. Just to me, pushing that 2.0t engine to the limits is not very fun. Low end torque is perfect for a DD though.
Handling wise its a different story since i think that chassis is wonderful.
Audi engines in general never really impressed me too much. If they improved that and the steering then the car would be PERFECT in my eyes.
I could totally picture myself in the new S5.
Its a great car no doubt. Best 4 cylinder engine i ever driven and leaps and bounds better than the old 1.8t even when modded. Its a beautiful car inside and out and feels like a premium car outside of the engine. My issue is the price. I think there are other cars out there for over $40k that offer more in terms of driving experience.
I also understand people have different priorities when buying a car. 2.0t is great for those who want decent daily driving power and want the most out of their gas mileage while doing so. Just to me, pushing that 2.0t engine to the limits is not very fun. Low end torque is perfect for a DD though.
Handling wise its a different story since i think that chassis is wonderful.
Audi engines in general never really impressed me too much. If they improved that and the steering then the car would be PERFECT in my eyes.
I could totally picture myself in the new S5.
07-31-2009, 08:36 PM
#120
I'm not going to spend another $3-5000+ in part because of "interior materials" comparing to the other manufacturers. I'd rather spend $2000 on a package that includes navigation, Bluetooth, etc. and save several grand in the process on something tangible that adds to the driving experience rather than something assumed that comes with a certain brand of cars. The Quattro system affords more traction but the lightweight steering is too reminiscent of the steering in my sister's Lexus. Makes it feel like I'm playing some hyper-realistic driving simulator rather than actually driving a car
A nice car no doubt, but IMO if I'm going to choose from one of the "Big 3" German brands it would have to be BMW. Not to mention comparing the A5 3.2 (as apples-to-apples as it gets, plus the 2.0T isn't available for customizing yet) to the 328i coupe with similar options, the A5 is more expensive!
Depends on what you want in a car and your budget I suppose.
Personally I have no problem paying a couple thousand more for better materials (or in my example of the SHAWD and the A4....$500-$1200 difference). When you look over at the TL and TSX forums all you see generally is quality complaints ie: poor leather, speakers blown, premature break wear, windshield mouldings flying off etc etc.
One guy over in the TL forum today just drove home from the dealer with his new car and had one blown speaker, one rattling speaker and pulsating brakes and has to take it back after a few hours of ownership. Needless to say this leaves a bad taste in his new car experience and overall affects his driving experience. This is also a big difference between a premium brand and a luxury brand though and the reason for a couple thousand dollar difference.
Why would you compare the A5 3.2L to the 328ix coupe when the 2.0T would still outperform (or equal its performance) at a cheaper price?
I agree that the 3.2L is not a great value and this is probably the reason why VAG is phasing out that engine. I can see that most people especially in NA are still stuck on the fact that if you pay a certain amount for a car you must have a certain amount of cylinders even if that smaller engine (ie 2.0T) can still outperform or equal its 6cyl competitors. Personally i wouldnt care if I had a Singer sewing machine engine in my car as long has it still performed equal too or better than the competitors 6 or 8 cyl etc..
Another example is the NSX. It was an amazing machine in the early and mid 90's that was ahead of its time and the benchmark for many years for some manufactures, using less to still outperform larger competitors. In the new millennium though that all changed and it became a good example of underpowered and overpriced. In Canada in 2005 a NSX was $150K for a 290Hp V6, 4sp Auto...
So when people really say that A4/A5 2.0T is overpriced, overweight and underpowered.......against its competitors it really is exaggerated and in most cases false .......IMHO of course and not everyone elses.