All cars in 2008 will come with tire-pressure monitors
04-08-2005, 09:52 AM
#3
Team Owner
Thread Starter
The NHTSA enforced it in 01 also but various consumer organizations sued in court to have it removed citing the way it would have been enforced. They were happy with the new method and will let pass the new enforcement.
04-08-2005, 10:29 AM
#7
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Doom878
No link but it was in the local paper. So what happens when you want to change your wheels?
its just a device that sticks between your tire and rim. Im sure you can swap it.
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04-08-2005, 11:56 AM
#8
Senior Moderator
Yes you can swap it with some modification. A few people I know with Z's got aftermarket wheels and switched out the tire pressure sensors on the wheels. Some modification was needed to make them fit since most of the time the wheels were larger then stock.
04-08-2005, 02:49 PM
#9
Race Director
It doesn't say there needs to be a sensor in the rim. That's the expensive option currently used in newer cars in the 40K+ range. The cheap way of doing it is via the existing ABS and an idiot light. The ABS can sense the very tiny diff in speed of tire that is underinflated - the regulation only says that the car must indicate a 25% decrease of tire pressure, not what the actual pressure is or which tire is the culprit.
This was mentioned some time ago. Grubbs Infiniti is filling all of the tires on its cars before delivery with Nitrogen to eliminate the problem. Apparantly the idiot light on some of the cars have gone off so many times that it was easier to fix it this way. Nitrogen filled tires have very little pressure swing.
This was mentioned some time ago. Grubbs Infiniti is filling all of the tires on its cars before delivery with Nitrogen to eliminate the problem. Apparantly the idiot light on some of the cars have gone off so many times that it was easier to fix it this way. Nitrogen filled tires have very little pressure swing.
Last edited by biker; 04-08-2005 at 02:53 PM.
04-08-2005, 03:53 PM
#10
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by biker
It doesn't say there needs to be a sensor in the rim. That's the expensive option currently used in newer cars in the 40K+ range. The cheap way of doing it is via the existing ABS and an idiot light. The ABS can sense the very tiny diff in speed of tire that is underinflated - the regulation only says that the car must indicate a 25% decrease of tire pressure, not what the actual pressure is or which tire is the culprit.
This was mentioned some time ago. Grubbs Infiniti is filling all of the tires on its cars before delivery with Nitrogen to eliminate the problem. Apparantly the idiot light on some of the cars have gone off so many times that it was easier to fix it this way. Nitrogen filled tires have very little pressure swing.
This was mentioned some time ago. Grubbs Infiniti is filling all of the tires on its cars before delivery with Nitrogen to eliminate the problem. Apparantly the idiot light on some of the cars have gone off so many times that it was easier to fix it this way. Nitrogen filled tires have very little pressure swing.
Posted on Fri, Apr. 08, 2005
ROAD SAFETY
Monitors to signal low tire pressure
New passenger vehicles will be required to have tire pressure monitoring systems by the 2008 model year. Automakers said more than a sixth of cars already have them.
BY KEN THOMAS
Associated Press
WASHINGTON - A light on motorists' instrument panels will soon warn them when a tire is underinflated.
The safety regulation, issued by the government Thursday, has its roots in the Firestone tire recall of 2000. It requires new passenger cars to have tire pressure monitoring systems in place by the 2008 model year.
Automakers most likely will attach tiny sensors to each wheel that will signal if a tire falls 25 percent below the recommended inflation pressure. If any of the four tires is underinflated, the sensor sets off a warning light.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates the upgrade will cost manufacturers $48.44 to $69.89 per vehicle.
The government said underinflated tires affect a vehicle's fuel economy and can increase stopping distances, contribute to the likelihood of tire failure, and lead to skidding on wet surfaces. One NHTSA survey found about 30 percent of cars and light trucks have at least one tire underinflated by 8 pounds per square inch or more.
2008 MODELS
All new four-wheel vehicles weighing 10,000 pounds or less must be equipped with the systems by the 2008 model year, the government said. The regulation affects passenger cars, sport utility vehicles, pickup trucks and minivans.
The NHTSA estimates that 120 lives a year will be saved when all new vehicles are equipped with the systems.
The regulation was proposed in September 2004. Tire manufacturers have questioned whether the warning system would signal low pressure early enough. Automakers have raised concerns that motorists may ignore the lights if they appear too frequently.
Donald B. Shea, president and chief executive of the Rubber Manufacturers Association, the trade group that represents tire makers, said, ``Unfortunately, this regulation may give motorists a false sense of security that their tires are properly inflated when they may be significantly underinflated.''
Eron Shosteck, a spokesman for the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, which represents nine automakers, said about 18 percent of their vehicles already have the technology. It first appeared in the 1997 Chevrolet Corvette and is currently used in some luxury vehicles.
''We're gratified that there's a final rule which allows us to continue the implementation of the technology as we've been doing,'' Shosteck said.
COST INVOLVED
Automakers estimate the upgrade will cost an average of $115 per vehicle. Several companies also offer tire pressure warning systems that can be retrofitted to cars and trucks at prices that generally start around $300.
Congress, aiming to prevent SUV rollovers after the massive Firestone tire recall began in August 2000, sought the warning devices in the Transportation Recall Enhancement, Accountability and Documentation Act.
The NHTSA originally issued a rule in December 2001 that would have required vehicles made after November 2003 to have dashboard lights warning drivers if their tire pressure was low.
But Public Citizen and other consumer groups sued the government agency, arguing the rule weakly allowed automakers to choose between cheaper ''indirect'' monitors, which operate off the anti-lock braking system, or ''direct'' systems, which have monitors attached to each wheel.
A federal appeals court in New York agreed with the consumer groups and tossed out the NHTSA's rule in August 2003, leading to the new process of issuing the regulation.
ROAD SAFETY
Monitors to signal low tire pressure
New passenger vehicles will be required to have tire pressure monitoring systems by the 2008 model year. Automakers said more than a sixth of cars already have them.
BY KEN THOMAS
Associated Press
WASHINGTON - A light on motorists' instrument panels will soon warn them when a tire is underinflated.
The safety regulation, issued by the government Thursday, has its roots in the Firestone tire recall of 2000. It requires new passenger cars to have tire pressure monitoring systems in place by the 2008 model year.
Automakers most likely will attach tiny sensors to each wheel that will signal if a tire falls 25 percent below the recommended inflation pressure. If any of the four tires is underinflated, the sensor sets off a warning light.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates the upgrade will cost manufacturers $48.44 to $69.89 per vehicle.
The government said underinflated tires affect a vehicle's fuel economy and can increase stopping distances, contribute to the likelihood of tire failure, and lead to skidding on wet surfaces. One NHTSA survey found about 30 percent of cars and light trucks have at least one tire underinflated by 8 pounds per square inch or more.
2008 MODELS
All new four-wheel vehicles weighing 10,000 pounds or less must be equipped with the systems by the 2008 model year, the government said. The regulation affects passenger cars, sport utility vehicles, pickup trucks and minivans.
The NHTSA estimates that 120 lives a year will be saved when all new vehicles are equipped with the systems.
The regulation was proposed in September 2004. Tire manufacturers have questioned whether the warning system would signal low pressure early enough. Automakers have raised concerns that motorists may ignore the lights if they appear too frequently.
Donald B. Shea, president and chief executive of the Rubber Manufacturers Association, the trade group that represents tire makers, said, ``Unfortunately, this regulation may give motorists a false sense of security that their tires are properly inflated when they may be significantly underinflated.''
Eron Shosteck, a spokesman for the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, which represents nine automakers, said about 18 percent of their vehicles already have the technology. It first appeared in the 1997 Chevrolet Corvette and is currently used in some luxury vehicles.
''We're gratified that there's a final rule which allows us to continue the implementation of the technology as we've been doing,'' Shosteck said.
COST INVOLVED
Automakers estimate the upgrade will cost an average of $115 per vehicle. Several companies also offer tire pressure warning systems that can be retrofitted to cars and trucks at prices that generally start around $300.
Congress, aiming to prevent SUV rollovers after the massive Firestone tire recall began in August 2000, sought the warning devices in the Transportation Recall Enhancement, Accountability and Documentation Act.
The NHTSA originally issued a rule in December 2001 that would have required vehicles made after November 2003 to have dashboard lights warning drivers if their tire pressure was low.
But Public Citizen and other consumer groups sued the government agency, arguing the rule weakly allowed automakers to choose between cheaper ''indirect'' monitors, which operate off the anti-lock braking system, or ''direct'' systems, which have monitors attached to each wheel.
A federal appeals court in New York agreed with the consumer groups and tossed out the NHTSA's rule in August 2003, leading to the new process of issuing the regulation.
04-08-2005, 03:57 PM
#11
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I am sure aftermarket wheel companies will make the change as well so the swap can take place..
if Rim companies do not change with the times = loss of business.
you will see..
if Rim companies do not change with the times = loss of business.
you will see..
04-08-2005, 06:14 PM
#13
dɐɹɔ ǝɥʇ ʇɐɥʍ
The tires have nothing to do with TPMS valves. I was going to explain how it works and link a picture to what the valves look like, but this article already does all of that http://www.alps.co.jp/e/press/new2002/f0508b-e.htm
The only problem as I see it right now, is that to reset the warning light on the vehicle you need a special tool(I have one and have used several time already, very simple once you get used to it) to initiate and then reset the valves. Other tid bits of information is that the valve cap and valve core must remain with the valve it came from, you can not swap them around or change them as it may alter how the system works. I suspect once this becomes standard(its just a matter of time no matter how much you want to fight it) on states that do emissions testing, if the light is on, the car will not pass, under inflated tires equal decreased fuel economy. Not a big deal but I don't think most smaller repair shops are going to be into buying a tool to reset and program valves they don't understand. As most of us know the average garage/tire shop is full of people who not only don't know what they are doing, but also they could care less why they are doing it. It took me a few sets of these and a bit of patience to really understand how the system works and how to deal with it. The little details really matter with this or the system will not work properly- an example of this is when initiating the valves you MUST start at the LF then go to the RF, then RR then spare(if equiped) and finally LR. If you don't do that on some of the systems it messes them up, yes there are different TPMS systems. Some use different freq. some use a lower freq. with pulse width modulation others are magnetic based. The other down fall right now of these systems is the cost of the valves themselves. They are about $60/ valve and only available from the dealerships. The aftermarket is scrammbling to keep up, but they want to make sure they do it right, so it may take a few years(that's what I am told).
What will come out eventually is a small device you keep in your car, it will be battery powered or run off a 12v supply in the car. This device will ensure that the module in the car sees what ever its suppose to all the time. It won't take much to develop and will end all of the BS with the TPMS valves, for those who just don't want to deal with it. I looked into developing such a product, but even knowing the TPMS system as well as I do, I don't have enough time to git-er-done.
The only problem as I see it right now, is that to reset the warning light on the vehicle you need a special tool(I have one and have used several time already, very simple once you get used to it) to initiate and then reset the valves. Other tid bits of information is that the valve cap and valve core must remain with the valve it came from, you can not swap them around or change them as it may alter how the system works. I suspect once this becomes standard(its just a matter of time no matter how much you want to fight it) on states that do emissions testing, if the light is on, the car will not pass, under inflated tires equal decreased fuel economy. Not a big deal but I don't think most smaller repair shops are going to be into buying a tool to reset and program valves they don't understand. As most of us know the average garage/tire shop is full of people who not only don't know what they are doing, but also they could care less why they are doing it. It took me a few sets of these and a bit of patience to really understand how the system works and how to deal with it. The little details really matter with this or the system will not work properly- an example of this is when initiating the valves you MUST start at the LF then go to the RF, then RR then spare(if equiped) and finally LR. If you don't do that on some of the systems it messes them up, yes there are different TPMS systems. Some use different freq. some use a lower freq. with pulse width modulation others are magnetic based. The other down fall right now of these systems is the cost of the valves themselves. They are about $60/ valve and only available from the dealerships. The aftermarket is scrammbling to keep up, but they want to make sure they do it right, so it may take a few years(that's what I am told).
What will come out eventually is a small device you keep in your car, it will be battery powered or run off a 12v supply in the car. This device will ensure that the module in the car sees what ever its suppose to all the time. It won't take much to develop and will end all of the BS with the TPMS valves, for those who just don't want to deal with it. I looked into developing such a product, but even knowing the TPMS system as well as I do, I don't have enough time to git-er-done.
04-09-2005, 07:22 AM
#14
Race Director
I can see a new market of stolen valves croping up. Are they as easy to take off as the current ones?
I saw another article that estimated the price would be $50-70 so I assumed the indirect method was still OK - apparently not.
I saw another article that estimated the price would be $50-70 so I assumed the indirect method was still OK - apparently not.
04-09-2005, 02:06 PM
#15
dɐɹɔ ǝɥʇ ʇɐɥʍ
Originally Posted by biker
I can see a new market of stolen valves croping up. Are they as easy to take off as the current ones?
I don't think that will be an issue. You would need to break the top bead of the tire to get the valve out. Yes you can take the nut on the outside lose. But you would need to be very, VERY skilled to do this with out injuring yourself. For $50-70 I don't think people will go to that length- in particular when they do "go bad"(battery dies) and there are different systems you would need the right one or it would be useless.
From the outside the valve looks like a some what odd bolt in style valve. The "brains" are on the inside just below the drop center of the wheel.
04-09-2005, 03:51 PM
#16
Race Director
I posted some other info in the Auto News thread to.
Here's a section of the real long rule that NHTSA put out:
"The agency examined three types of technology that manufacturers could use to meet the TPMS requirements. Assuming that manufacturers will seek to minimize compliance costs, the agency expects that manufacturers would install hybrid TPMSs on the 67 percent of vehicles that are currently equipped with an ABS and direct TPMSs on the 33 percent of vehicles that are not so equipped. The highest costs for compliance would result if a manufacturer installed direct TPMSs with an interactive readout of individual tire pressures that included sensors on all vehicle wheels.
In the near term, the agency believes that a direct system with a generic warning lamp (Option 2) is the most likely option to be selected by automobile manufacturers. To date, no one has produced a hybrid system (Option 3) and responses to requests for information from the manufacturers resulted in most indicating that they were planning on using direct systems. Individual tire pressure displays (Option 1) are more costly than a warning light and are not required by the final rule, but some manufacturers may choose them for their higher priced models. In the long run, the agency suspects that price pressure and further development of tire pressure monitoring systems could result in hybrid or indirect systems meeting the final rule and being introduced."
Here's a section of the real long rule that NHTSA put out:
"The agency examined three types of technology that manufacturers could use to meet the TPMS requirements. Assuming that manufacturers will seek to minimize compliance costs, the agency expects that manufacturers would install hybrid TPMSs on the 67 percent of vehicles that are currently equipped with an ABS and direct TPMSs on the 33 percent of vehicles that are not so equipped. The highest costs for compliance would result if a manufacturer installed direct TPMSs with an interactive readout of individual tire pressures that included sensors on all vehicle wheels.
In the near term, the agency believes that a direct system with a generic warning lamp (Option 2) is the most likely option to be selected by automobile manufacturers. To date, no one has produced a hybrid system (Option 3) and responses to requests for information from the manufacturers resulted in most indicating that they were planning on using direct systems. Individual tire pressure displays (Option 1) are more costly than a warning light and are not required by the final rule, but some manufacturers may choose them for their higher priced models. In the long run, the agency suspects that price pressure and further development of tire pressure monitoring systems could result in hybrid or indirect systems meeting the final rule and being introduced."
04-15-2005, 08:57 AM
#17
Not Asian
TIRE PRESSURE MONITORING RULE ANNOUNCED AND GM IS READY .... All passenger cars will have tire pressure monitoring systems beginning with the 2006 model year, according to a new motor vehicle safety standard by the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). The regulation will require that manufacturers install a system that can detect when one or more of the vehicle's tires are 25 percent or more below the recommended inflation pressure.
Phase-in of the new regulation will begin Sept. 1, 2005. All new 4-wheeled vehicles weighing 10,000 pounds or less must be equipped with the monitoring system by the 2008 model year.
GM is a leader in installing tire pressure monitors and has more vehicles equipped with the devices than any automaker. GM intends to be ready to comply with the new federal requirement when it goes into effect. GM has produced more than four million cars and trucks with tire pressure monitors since 1997. GM uses two systems - one that monitors tire pressure with the antilock brake system (ABS), and one with separate sensors mounted in each wheel. In both systems, a warning light on the instrument panel or a message displayed on the driver information center, along with an audible warning, alerts the driver to check the air pressure in their tires.
Phase-in of the new regulation will begin Sept. 1, 2005. All new 4-wheeled vehicles weighing 10,000 pounds or less must be equipped with the monitoring system by the 2008 model year.
GM is a leader in installing tire pressure monitors and has more vehicles equipped with the devices than any automaker. GM intends to be ready to comply with the new federal requirement when it goes into effect. GM has produced more than four million cars and trucks with tire pressure monitors since 1997. GM uses two systems - one that monitors tire pressure with the antilock brake system (ABS), and one with separate sensors mounted in each wheel. In both systems, a warning light on the instrument panel or a message displayed on the driver information center, along with an audible warning, alerts the driver to check the air pressure in their tires.
04-17-2005, 09:27 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by dallison
great, something else to break on the damn car
I'll be honest I don't check my air in my tires of my daily driver as much as I should.(about 1 time a month). if I had a little monitor on the dash i'd do it probably at least 1 time a week. plus with proper air pressure you maximize fuel mileage and tire wear.
11-02-2006, 12:47 PM
#20
November 2, 2006
Tire pressure monitoring systems
Tire pressure warning light in 2007 Suzuki XL-7.
By Jil McIntosh; photos by Chris Chase
If you're like many motorists, you know that you should check your tire's air pressure on a regular basis - but you don't. Soon, due to U.S. government regulations, your car will check itself, and warn you when a tire is low.
Tire pressure monitoring systems
Tire pressure warning light in 2007 Suzuki XL-7.
By Jil McIntosh; photos by Chris Chase
If you're like many motorists, you know that you should check your tire's air pressure on a regular basis - but you don't. Soon, due to U.S. government regulations, your car will check itself, and warn you when a tire is low.
11-02-2006, 12:55 PM
#21
Senior Moderator
Lazy people FTW 
11-03-2006, 03:15 AM
#23
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Gotta love this stuff...............technology to accomodate people who either are too lazy or too stupid to use a simple Tire Pressure Gauge.
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