kosh2258

The EPA doesn't drive the cars in their test. They put them on a dyno, in an environmentally controlled room, and estimate mileage based on the emissions coming out the exhaust and fudge factor drag and other variables. Those numbers have been found to be off by as much as 30% towards the optimistic side.

As for the GTO, scrounge up some actual observed mileage numbers on the automatic and I'll pay attention to you - maybe.

C/D drives most tests pretty much the same way - they flog the crap out of whatever they're testing. So I don't buy that argument.

By any measure, the 300C is anything but efficient.

VQ35DE

Guys! I guess us 30-something people are now showing our ages but, the 300C in Spy Hunter ( ) had sharp wheel spinners that would totally spin you out into a crash on contact:

Rkat

Alot of you have posted about issues of reliabilty of DC,I have owned 2(trucks)and they were/are the best I have ever owned.I also have an 04 TL,To tell you the Truth I would have never ever bought the car(TL) if I had read this board first..Talk about problems..Wow..Rattles,Interior issues,paint matching problems,Bad trannys..etc. Before some of you guys start posting about another brands reliabilty you might want to read up on your own first.The guys that have been slaming the 300's the most I bet have never even driven one.All I can say is at least DC is trying to put some good cars out their..unlike chevy and ford..

takkar

the only thing i like is that it's a RWD car and the TL is a FWD...even the american car manufacturers are going for the RWD cars and the japanese keep on making FWD which IMO are usless as the HP increases in the car ( also including torque steer)

Indecision

It is expected that you'll see more negative comments on about a car than positive on the forums. That's totally true for any forums you go to. You can't make judgement on the car base on all the bad comments you read.

FYI, I drove the new 300 for a week and it convinced me enough to placed an order for the 05 TL. They're trying but it's going to take a lot more to get their image back. The damages that they've done on themselves over the years will take just as long to repair it.

AcuraVic

Just for the record, I like the look of the 300. I also liked the Dodge Omni GLH-S, and the Charger (the little one), and the Starion. All of those cars were great cars of their time but Chrysler discontinued them. It puzzles me that american car makers discontinue good models regularly. At least the Mustang is still around. (But not the Camaro ?!?)

How long will the 300 last ?

VQ35DE

HP has little to do with Torque steer (TS).

Besides, only Honda/Acura seems to be hanging tough with the FWD setup at all costs.

Toyota and Nissan have pretty transitioned the majority of their upscale lineup to RWD. The only FWD cars Lexus has is the ES and RX (AWD w/FWD bias?). And effective with the discontinuation of the I35, Infiniti no long has a FWD car in their lineup.

As far as their regular lineups: between Toyota and Nissan only the Solara V6 (240lb-ft)and 3.5L Maxima/Altima (249-255lb-ft but probably closer to 260lb-ft) make enough power to possibly necessitate RWD in order to extract a bit more performance.

That said with TCS there's very little TS in the TL as well as the Maxima; both being the two most powerful FWD cars on the market, in terms of HP.

And as far as domestics, I believe Caddy's previous gen STS held the record for the most power ever for a FWD layout with 300hp/295lb-ft; thus the need for the Performance Shift Algorithm system. Plus, you're looking at 280lb-ft generated by the FWD GTP/Regal GS/Monte Carlo SS/Impala SS.

So it seems to me that GM (American) is convinced that high torque FWD setups work well.

Aquineas

I'm sure I'll get shot for saying this, but I think the TL would be better with the VQ35. In fact, while you're at it, just throw in the Nissan transmissions as well. That would be the perfect marriage; Honda interior with Nissan drivetrain... I can't comment on the 6 speed TL as I've never driven one... But as far as the auto, it's no contest.

Aquineas

I like the 300C. I think it looks good, and Chrysler is having no problems selling them. In fact, they're single-handedly responsible for Chrysler's last couple of successful quarters.
Thoughts:

• I agree that the gas mileage on that V8 is going to suck, even with the cyllinder cut-off, but I also think some of that poor mileage is due to the desire to floor the damned thing to feel the torque.
• I would have concerns about the long-term quality, but I think the drivetrain is probably bulletproof
• I have no doubt that a 300C with the Hemi can beat an Auto TL
• From the patriotic perspective, It's a bit disappointing that such core parts of the car were not engineered here. Are we, as Americans, incapable of designing good cars? I've been reading stories that automotive engienering itself is a target for outsourcing
• This forum really is hopelessly biased

missmyprelude

Nah. I like the gas mileage I get. Can't speak for the AT, but the Honda 6MT is much better too.

Ken1997TL

Yes, you should be shot. If I wanted a Nissan engine with a good interior, I'd by an Infiniti I35 thank you much.

Aquineas

Surprisingly, there really isn't a mileage penalty, and the Maxima and the TL are rated identically by the EPA. I have reasons to believe that the Maxima's real-world mileage would be better though.

If the engine, even being smaller, has to downshift at the smallest grade to go up a hill, then you're still using fuel, just smaller amounts at a faster rate. Personally, I'd rather have the torque without a downshift.

jjsC5

I am beyond giving a shit whether you "pay attention" to me or not. I can assure you I have pretty stout credentials to back up my statements. But you don't seem to understand consistency and comparing apples to apples, so I'll leave it as is.

Ron A

Move to Cars & Bikes

1SICKLEX

Impressive 425-horsepower 6.1-liter HEMI® V8 engine

Unique calibration for five-speed automatic transmission with AutoStick®

Performance suspension, brakes, and Chrysler's Electronic Stability Program (ESP) for superior handling

20-inch wheels with 245/45ZR20 front and 255/45ZR20 rear tires

Superior SRT styling, including a lower and even bolder stance, rear spoiler, sport front seats, leather-trimmed accents, power everything, and much more

TL_6SPD

My g35 gets 23-24 city and 28-32 highway. I don't call that bad. And I am evening hitting redline a few times a day.

I see people getting poor gas milege with teh TL...

rets

6MT G EPA is around 20/27, City/Highway. http://www.infiniti.com/content/mode...,30648,00.html

6MT TL is 20/30 http://www.acura.com/models/model_sp....asp?module=tl


I'm glad you have more highway-like conditions in your City, and 6MT should be easy to get more MPG on highway. Perhaps, 04TLers living close to you would get similar MPG, too.


IMHO, most of TLers got better MPG than they have expected, espeically if they're not living in crowded cities.

TL_6SPD

My city is crowed. It's the 8th largest city in the USA. All our freeways are under contruction. I drive mostly city and some mix highway but not much. The VQ gets good gas milege, always has done fair in all conditions.

missmyprelude

Well the EPA numbers that I see are 18/26 for the G35 and 20/30 for the TL. Not a huge difference (and I wouldn't call the G35 bad anyway, just not as good as the TL), but big enough for me to choose the winner in this category. I consistently get 27 MPG on my circuit in the TL (I'm not sharp enough to actually break that down into city/highway like TL_6SPD was able to do). Plus, getting 6mpg over the EPA highway?! Holy crap, your car is not only faster than other G35s, it gets way better mileage - that's a keeper! (Pardon my sarcasm, but your posts get more outrageous by the day). I mostly drive highway and rural roads, and tend to give it a bit of throttle now and then (I'm certainly not constantly shifting above 4k like a lot of folks say they do though). It looks like the Maxima has EPA ratings close to the TL 20/29, so we'll call them even.

missmyprelude

FWIW - Chrysler sold almost 12,000 300s in Aug (not sure how many were 300Cs). Regardless, I think this shows that people generally do like them. I know it doesn't necessarily mean it's a good car, but shows that it is at least somewhat of a hit. That's almost twice as many TLs that were sold in August. My point: the styling may not appeal to everyone, but some people are taking notice. I wouldn't be suprised if the sales die down pretty quickly (the car's styling might not last), but we'll see.

hacksaw

Did I tell you the two words that described my TL test drive? - rice grinder
It is like comparing a Honda to a Harley

You want this


or this

rets

It's not fair...

Ok, you will apply the same term into Harley, too, when test driving these two.


Harley, Sportster




Honda Valkyrie Rune

Aquineas

Because of similarities in weight and engine layout, for fuel-mileage purposes, the Maxima is a better comparison to the TL than the G35.

JnC

iTrader: (12)

Putting a Hemi wasnt an option it was a must, coz the V6 is just enough to haul all that weight.

TL_6SPD

Well I drive over 100 miles a day, and I calculate my gas milege at every fill up. So I kinda know what I get. :P

casooner90

Does anyone have a picture of 'The Car' from a B movie released early '70s? The ugly black box that had a mind of it's own? That was the inspiration behind the 300. I have no doubt that the designer of 300 is wearing polyester.

casooner90

Here it is.

1970 version of the 300

http://entertainment.msn.c om/movies/movie.aspx?m=29901

VQ35DE

Nice counterpoint!!

BTW, now I want a Honda Valkyrie Rune!!

MADCAT

I totally agree with you.

giovanni1

M Vick and Warren Sapp are both driving 300Cs . I wouldn't it call it an old persons car by any means. Here in Jersey I see a lot more older people driving TLs.

derrick

Let me tell you about a 1-week rental I had (2005 Chrysler 300c) -- it was a base model (V6, cloth interior, etc). I would imagine the interior dashboard to be the same across the board (V6, Hemi, etc ...) and I was really not impressed. The layout of the instrument panel is quite simple and not cluttered but for the 'flagship' Chrysler, I was quite surprised. I'm not a big fan of the analog clock (like in the Infiniti) so that didn't help. Fit & finish was average. The cloth interior -- not very luxurious. The roominess -- it's huge. Trunk space very useable and accommodating for 7 carry-on pieces of luggage.

Exterior is love or hate. I do prefer this model over the previous gen. Nevertheless, I do prefer the looks of the 2nd gen / 3rd gen TL any day.

Driving impressions: I am comparing a 2005 V6 300c with the 2002 V6 TL-S. I was driving around the island of Oahu (Hawaii) so it's quite hilly to the Midwest city where I live. The V6 300c was searching for the right gear when going up inclines. Mind you, there was 4 people in the car (550lb) and A/C on full-blast. I haven't taken my car up such inclines so I can't make the comparison. Low-end torque was very good. Off a traffic light, I could take off and change lanes quite easily (but Hawaiian drivers let you in -- no need to be overly aggressive). Handling of the 300c is strictly meant for highway cruising. Take a corner with any spirit and the tires will squeal like a pig. (I went to a gas station and added more air -- above Chrysler spec but well below Goodyear sidewall max). The turning radius of this land boat proved to be very good -- driving around some cramped parking lots was challenging but I got the car in some tight spaces. Fuel economy is average -- 350 miles, I added $45 of gas @ $2.25/gallon. That was mixed city/highway driving.

Overall, I was not very impressed with this Chysler offering. For the money, I would look for a different car. I am most likely not in the demographic that the 300c is targeting. One thing is for sure -- when I got back home from holidays, I had a new appreciation to my car.

VQ35DE

300C = V8 Hemi!! You had a base 300 (200hp 2.7L V6). Even so, the 300 Limited/Touring (250hp 3.5L V6) is probably more of a "competitor" with the TL.

MADCAT

Why do people here have the impression that this model will ever improve in quality? Look at the god damned line-up they have and how long they have existed…. there…end of argument!

Rkat

Hacksaw..I dont think you understand..Harleys are for you posers and Hondas(sportbikes) are for us riders..I want a bike thats fast,stops great and handles..A softtail just did not really work for me.. If I wanted to cruise,go bar hoppen,pick up the chicks I would have a Harley..But I just want to ride..

Aegir

My prediction: They will price this car into a market that will not appreciate it's $23K base model origins. IMO, based on the $36-38K 'as-tested' prices that I've seen, it's already there.

1SICKLEX

The car has a waiting list. They can't sell enough Hemis. The car is hot. It could be 50k for this SRT-8 (I say around 44k like the SRT-6). People love the styling. It's a great interpretation of an American sedan, instead of all the American made, Japanese looking sedans out there. Michael Vick just bought one here in Atlanta and a slew of celebrities as well.

The fact it this car gets attention from people and the press the TL can't begin to match. This is the first Chrysler people are trading in BMWs, ES 300s, Caddy's for. It is hot.

The TL is not some young peoples car ya'll make it to be and some people don't like the styling of it either. Styling is subjective.
The fact is this is ANOTHER car in the 30-40k range (with the Hemi) that is great competition.

1SICKLEX

And the TL is ANY different.