Acura says it's putting fuel economy ahead of performance

Mark Rechtin
Automotive News
August 17, 2009 - 12:01 am ET

LOS ANGELES -- In the heated luxury-car wars, horsepower is king. Or is it?

In a reversal of years of performance-based product development, Acura sees fuel economy as a way to differentiate itself from other luxury marques.

"Hitting the 2016 CAFE requirements is going to be hard," said John Watts, senior manager of Acura product planning. "We are betting more in the fuel economy direction.

"Although we are in a horsepower war, we feel that fuel economy is the way to go ... while striking a balance to meet the needs of the market."

Granted, Acura won't walk away from high-performance vehicles. But would most luxury sedan owners be offended by a powertrain tuned for a 0-to-60 run of 6.4 seconds, as opposed to 5.8 seconds, if the end result were three more miles per gallon?

It likely doesn't help Acura's performance credibility that parent Honda Motor Co. axed its V-8 and rear-wheel-drive development programs. That might force the brand to look at other ways of standing out.

"We are not following the same approach to the market," Watts said. "After we come out of this economy, things are going to be significantly different in customer behavior and what customers are looking for."

Watts said the luxury customer of the future won't just focus on horsepower as the key feature.

Watts sees Acura taking a lead position in other areas, such as user-friendly technology.

Acura also is studying hybrid versions of its vehicles.

"It's a logical direction," Watts said.

Wags may wonder about the genuineness of Acura's fuel economy mission as the brand rolls out a V-6 version of the redesigned TSX, which previously came only as a four-cylinder.

But with the new TL sedan becoming larger and more expensive, the TSX V-6 holds a place on the Acura pricing ladder for returning TL owners who cannot afford the new model.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...73357440515813

sorry if this is a repost

 

If fuel economy is a priority, why did they make the 4G larger and heavier than the 3G and increase engine displacement, esp. on the AWD model? The 3.5 and 3.7 doesn't win any HP battles compared to the competition either and efficiency is average or below-average in the case of the 3.7L.

Other makers such as Infiniti and BMW have engines and powertrains that are just as or even more efficient, more powerful, and offer more choices to the consumer such as diesel....to go along with better and more advanced transmissions.

Typical PR B.S.

 

I have only four words for this: "five speed automatic transmission."

And we're supposed to believe that fuel efficiency is "job one" for Acura???

I may have been born at night...but not last night!

 

don't want is a better way of putting it

 

My thoughts exactly - and they are also in last place in the direct injection bandwagon.

For all we bash GM, my CTS has 304 hp Direct Injection and a six speed automatic. And yes, it gets pretty damn good gas mileage.

 

To me, that is a piss poor marketing strategy. When I bought my last TL (2004) the TSX was the four cylinder model down a rung. Most people don't want to move down the ladder - whether it's as nice of a car as the last one or not.

It's a perception - same as if you owned a few Accords and walked into a Honda dealership and they said - gee, the Civic is now made for the same folks who are used to driving Accords. Same reason Volkswagen is totally unsuccessful with Phaetons and $40,000 Passats. Volkswagens are still associated as the "peoples car" (as in not the upper class peoples car!).

 

Lobby against the 2016 CAFE. It is anti-car, plain and simple. Do not vote for anyone who would support those ridiculous standards or allow the California Air Resources Board (CARB) to dictate standards for the entire US, which is what the current Administration has allowed, caving to a clueless minority of dweeb bureaucrats.

Later on I'll tell you what I really think.

 

Why later? I want to know NOW!

I think this is PR BS as well. Maybe Acura saw they couldn't win the HP war so they focused on an easier or less crowded path?? For me, Acura means solid performance in all areas while being leader in none except maybe onboard technologies. I don't want to drive slow cars that are super efficient. I would have bought a Honda Civic, a 4 cylinder Accord or an Insight. Give me a break.

As for the fuel economy, here's a free tip: build smaller and lighter car with a better tranny, fuel economy will take care of itself.

Frankly, how do they intend to distinguish themselves in probably the most competitive field by having products that are less performant but more fuel efficient? If most ppl want to improve MPG, they could drive closer to the speed limits and their coverall consumption would drop 10-30% (depending of their previous driving habits).

Here's another clue: I never met a luxury car owner that focused on MPG: this is not want a luxury car is about, well it never been for the last 100 years or so...

I really hate that new, you sir just sinked all my good humor!

Have a fuel-efficient but boring day everyone!
(Ok, rant's off!)
-YetiTL

 

As we all know, this was nothing more than PR spin to justify why Acura has powertrains that are less advanced than those of some of its competitors.

 

The auto makers agreed to it, and if you do some homework, you'll discover why. We are not nearly as far from the new standards already as you might think.

Mileage ratings that are used to meet the CAFE standards are not what you see on the window sticker of cars. If you want to have some fun, google "Flex Fuel CAFE Ratings". What you'll find is that all the Tahoes, Surburbans, Pickups, Durangos etc with "Flex Fuel" or E-85 capable on them are actually rated at about 29 mpg for CAFE purposes.

The sky is not falling as much as it would appear on the outside.

 

You have to remember that Honda has always been about economy. Soichiro himself campaigned all his life for small engines and good fuel economy, hence Honda's strong reluctance to even go to a V-6 engine. They had to be dragged kicking and screaming away from 4-cylinders.

Acura is their lux brand, but they've succeeded in staying with 6-cylinder engines in spite of competition that almost all have 8's. Ditto the 5spd tranny.

I completely agree they need a direct-injection 6 and a 6spd transmission. The 6spd appears to be coming, at least in the new crossover. And I have to believe there are prototype DI engines running at Honda HQ, too. After all, they're part of the necessary strategy for rmeeting the absurdly ridiculous CAFE standards.

Electric is okay for niche markets, but a nation of electric cars would use as much fuel and create as much pollution at the power plant level as gasoline cars.

.
.

 

I fully realize that I will probably get flamed on a car forum for my views, but it's how I feel.

I believe that the car industry, like the rest of the country has been a victim of cheap energy up until last year and with a few spikes here and there. We simply have refused to believe what most of the rest of the world already knows about oil. The fact still remains that the USA makes up about 4% of the worlds population but uses 25% of the worlds energy, and we will face ever greater competition for that decreasing supply of energy, not a sustainable scenario.

I firmly believe that Acura/Honda and the rest of the auto manufacturers are capable of building more fuel efficient, better performing cars than they currently are. Personally, in the short term I would gladly trade off a few 10's of acceleration for more 3MPG. I simply wouldn't miss that little bit of acceleration in my daily driving, and I'm comfortable enough with who I am not to need to drive the fastest car on the road. When Dave Hill and GM started working on the C5 Corvette, fuel economy was identified as a priority and the C5's were still the best performing, most efficient generation of Corvettes as a class to that date.

I think that Acura is on the right track with this. Any other manufacturer who wants to remain viable should be looking in this direction too. Performance and economy are NOT exclusive of one another, regardless of what the oil lobby would have you believe.

 

This is so true.

My good friend has a Lexus LS460 and a LX470. One day at the pumps I asked him what he gets MPG.....He looked at me and shruged his shoulders saying "I dont know, when its empty I fill it".

This pretty much sums it up IMO for most luxury owners and he used to own a 2006 RL and had the same opinion.

Acura has thrown in the towel (if they ever had one) for the HP wars. What i find funny is that they are making it sound like they are starting this great trend going towards economy, while all the other brands have already started doing this but still producing performance models...

 

Why should we flame you? You express a very valid opinion. I think both performance AND economy can be improved but it'll come at a higher cost per unit sold. Now, if I told you I could make a 2011 TL SH-AWD that is both more fuel efficient by 5 % and quicker by 5 %, how much is it worth for you (or any Acurazine reader)? 3k?5k? 10k???

And yes to 6-7 speed tranny, DI, quick and fuel efficient car but not at a 20k premium...

But I agree with a lot of what you wrote.

 

Glad I’m not the only one who thinks this so true. Considering the 3 big Japanese brands I always thought Acura being the middle of the road guy. Go with Infiniti if is performance you want, and go for Lexus if it luxury you want. Acura is for people who want a little bit of both worlds.

Anyway, about Acura being focused on fuel efficiency…

It seems like every company in the world is scrambling to make their own company the “green” company in their own market. Why should Honda be different? Perhaps Honda is even working on a model that will mimic Toyota’s example of introducing a hybrid model for the luxury brand (HS for Lexus) or at least planning something similar? It took some time, but Honda eventually did follow up with an updated Insight to be more competitive with Toyota’s mighty Prius.

It is probably true that most luxury car buyers are not concerned about MPG of their $50,000+ car, but we all know, everyone is different. I’m sure in the future there will be a niche market for fuel efficient luxury cars and it only will get bigger as more and more people in the US become more energy conscious like rest of the world. I won’t be surprised if the Lexus HS becomes a hit for Toyota like the Prius.

 

I agree with most of what you wrote but I doubt the Lexus HS will be a hit since it looks like a luxury Prius with an inflated price and not much else.

We can't be against virtue and making better cars who consume less oil is good, as long as we look at the bigger picture. Most ppl think: electric = good but what if your electricity is made from coal burning or nuclear powerplants (I don't mind nuclear power at all but it has a large enviromental cost due to the waste)?

And yes, everybody is on the move for greener cars since it's the «in» thing to do. Note the companies are there to make money not save the planet so they will focus on what seems to be the thing to do to win a bigger market share.

 

The 4G TL and new Acura paradigm seem to be a step backwards-- towards Lexus/Buick territory.
When the 2G TL-S and the 3G TLs came out, they were faster-- as well as more fuel efficient-- than all their competition except for the M3 and AMG variants.

I wound up getting the 2005 TL because the 2005 G35 had less MPG for no performance advantage, and I wasn't about to get the insomnia-curing slower ES. The TL also happened to have the nicest interior, etc.

Now, every vehicle made by Acura seems bigger, heavier, slower and less efficient than its predecessor.

 

I stopped reading after this line
They must know something I don't, because compared to the competition it looks like they gave up years ago.

 

As usual Acura has no cohesive design/marketing or manufacturing strategy. The seem to just flail in the wind and change direction w/o much thought. This is why they will continue to be insignifigant. The brand has no definition whatsoever.

 

....just another cog in the "I'll never buy another Acura" gear to me....

 

BMW/MB use front strut suspensions. Honda does this on the Civic but double wishbones on the Accord/TSX/TL. The situation is as described in the recent Mototrend comparison where the BMW 135 was a bottom feeder in the rankings.

The BMW 135 is a great street car where it isn't pushed beyond 7/10's but it is not a performance driver's car. Some people here confuse performance with driving fast from stop light to stop light, and beating pimply faced punks in their Cobalts and Neons.

 

No brand identity whatsoever in the name of Acura.

 

Acura= going backwards faster than any one else. Everyone else is moving forward with decent products.

 

Breaking news: Acura says it's putting everything ahead of looks

 

^^^ fat chicks need loving too
I'm just adressing design issues, you guys summed the rest up pretty well.

I honestly dont know how Acura can pull out of this design. It's like the government admitting they did something wrong. It'll probably take 5+yrs to pull out of the beaks, if they're still around.

Got a question was there ever a company that pulled it off, say redesigned every model then two years later a totally new design again? I don't see how you can pull out of that damn grill, without outright admitting it was a horrible idea. You can't define a car company by what should have been seen as a completely failed experimental design

 

i do agree that their styling blows, but from what i remember, honda is more about fuel efficient motors and always has been.

 

I agree, the first Honda product I ever used was a rather old generator, that started every time we needed it even if it sat on the shelf for a few years. It still goes strong 20 yrs later and no maintenance.

Really most likely Acura and many many other companies don't actually know what to do right now. Personally I'm fine I like the new tech, the SH awd, but I think Top Gear had it right, when they predicted the fall of the V8 and the rise of efficient turbo I4's, V6's and turbo V6's in gas and diesel. To me this says, yes they could do both performance and economy. (I know Acura doesn't have a V8, but I'm saying a V6-->I4 turbo....etc)

Imo Hybrids are worse for the environment than any petrol car, they may excel in city traffic, but the environmental concerns over the manufacturing and disposal of batteries should be of higher priority. It makes no sense to stop polluting the air and start pollute the ground and ruin landscapes for batteries. Hybrids are expensive gimmicks, they get people in the door but the companies should be pushing the above engines I mentioned.

I spared you guys another page that I had wrote.............

 

I agree with what others are saying about styling, it is unusual and as much as I want to like the new TL and RL I just can't bring myself to. For some reason the TSX is acceptable in terms of styling.

We, as enthusiasts, often forget that we are the extreme minority. Catering to us is not a wise business move, look at Lexus, most of us appreciate what they do, but it's not what most of us would want to own. I think Acura is stuck in an odd position right now, they are like the K-mart Lexus. I am personally willing to sacrifice some power/performance for fuel economy. I don't drive much and when I do I drive like an old man. The rub is that Acura's styling is off and they aren't as luxury as they want you to believe, which makes it a tough sell.

 

true true, but everyone I pointed a new TL out to, have been disgusted, even when not implying they were ugly before hand. I mean yeah we all want SH awd on everything, rwd, a V8, a turbo, but really if they could just package the product better as it is now, there would be far less of us complaining.

 

"Acura says it's putting fuel economy ahead of performance..."

Hmmm, like running a race and you suddenly realize, 'I'm almost in last place!' Then you start fabricating the most absurd excuses.

ZDX <----- fuel economy? TSXv6 <---- going backwards? Maybe we need an Acura Insight

 

They should have expanded development on the 05-07 AV6h's JNA1 motor years ago and could have knocked off two birds (fuel economy and performance) with one stone on several of Acura's Accord V6 based vehicles.

 

WTF is going on at Acura??? pretty soon everyone will look at me like I'm driving a freakin Buick!!