Aegir

You must've missed this one: http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1

"Acura was clearly planning to take no prisoners with the latest TL, and that was immediately apparent at the drag strip, where the TL ripped off a 0-to-60-mph mark of just 5.8 seconds—a half-second quicker than the potent Infiniti G35 could manage with its 3.5-liter V-6, and more than a second quicker than the best of the rest."

If there are any other head to head 6MT comparisions, please contribute them.

Senneca01

Since when do you speak for the entire population of North America? If no one knows that Infiniti exist anymore, why have they sold over 62,309 cars this year and almost a million cars since they were introduced back in 1989? Infiniti is having their highest popularity, best sales, and best recognition since their inception. Please explain...

Do you hate the Infiniti brand so much that you feel it is okay to spew out misinformation and lies? Again, your trollish comments are making Acura owners look bad.

"Ever", that is the key word. They are having their best sales year "ever". I guess that 40 year old men with the reading comprehension of a 3 year old wouldn't understand that.

It's not just about twisties and scary fast racing. It's about natural steering feel, no torque steer, and 50/50 balance in everyday driving. For people who have driven FWD cars all their lives, this won't matter, but for people who love pure handling and have driven RWD cars all their lives there is a difference in feel. Maybe people like you just don't get it.

There is something called active-safety. Have you ever heard of that before? A car that is dreadfully slow and has terrible handling isn't safe for anyone. Your sarcasm isn't really funny in this case because the TL is neither dreadfully slow nor has terrible handling characteristics. The TL is one of the best handling FWD cars you can buy, and it is very fast for FWD as well. Maybe you are just a bad driver, who knows.

People can drive whatever car they want. The ES330 is a fine car for what it was meant for and Lexus sells a ton of them. It doesn't matter if it is a ladies or mans car unless you are some sort of sexist with preconceived notions.

Don't be a hater in life for things you don't understand, while everyone else is enjoying variety and the spice of life, you will be the only loser in the end. Keep that in mind.

boltjames

Thank you for typing all that. I didn't read a word of it.

What I will tell you is this:

This is the Acura TL forum. All the typing in the world isn't going to convince anyone that the G35 is a superior car. You've already got admissions that the G35 is more sporty and marginally more powerful and that we don't care that it is. What matters to the TL driver is sophisticated design, tasteful interior appointments, and tech-savvy features.

If we wanted a G35 we would have purchased a G35. They're not expensive and they're not difficult to find.

BJ

quikac

BJ, Dope, Moderators, et al,

I'm reminded of what my professor said in grad school a few years ago, "you can't rationalize with an irrational mind," so this thread is history for me...

Before I sign off of this thread forever, I would ask any and all other mature TL owners who are determined to remain in this thread to clean up the language, take some grammar and spelling lessons (please!), stop the f-bombs and stupid cartoon figures who are flipping people the bird and sitting on the toilet (why they even exist here, I don't know -- get rid of them), and let the G35 guys have their say without turning this into a hate fest -- its beyond stupid.

The G35 has won award after award after award, while our TLs have recently come in behind a Caddy (yikes!) in a "driver's test." The G35 sedan is a world-class, award-winning sedan in many venues and respects, and our TLs are in a class of their own in their own right. I am just as disappointed in this thread as much as I love my TL -- which is to say -- a LOT! Too many ignorant TL owners have turned this into a bad case of urinary olympics and they're sounding terribly uneducated and boorish. (If this was a forum from a few years ago during the Mustang vs. Camaro wars, I could understand it, and some of these "writers" would no doubt be sporting mullet hairdos.) I've wondered how some of these less-than articulate posters could afford a $35K car, as their displayed educational levels would seem to indicate an AMC Gremlin or similar ilk.

For those who are "surfing porn sites behind their wife's back," there's help available as porn is painfully addictive and ruins marriages. And no, I don't know this first hand, but two colleagues of mine are fighting this addiction now, and one was recently fired for surfing at work -- please, get help, as this is dangerous stuff...

As I said at the top of this post, I'm out of here; so Dope, go ahead and flip me the bird with the little green cartoon guy, and BJ, call me some 7th grade name you probably won't spell correctly, and everyone else call the G35 guys "dumb, and owners of ugly cars," as I'm going out to wash and drive my TL. Should I encounter a G35 while driving, I'll nod to the "Car of the Year" winner, as I row through the gears of my superb 6-speed Acura luxury-sport sedan.

I'm gone, as too many of you are quickly getting pathetically stupid...

Q

TL_6SPD

Like I said, its the slowest test of the G35 period.

Liquid _Courage

Unfortunately when you compare the G35 with the Taurus in regards of looks, interior, then you're evenly matched. :P J/k

Look, no one questioned the Gs performance, just everything else, which is all a matter of opinion. Anyways, riddle me this: which of the two (G35 & TL) clocks a better 0-100 mph. TL takes the prize on some of the performance stats as well.

Liquid _Courage

This is also found in the article.
"Acura TLs equipped with the manual six-speed also get beautiful Brembo four-piston front-brake calipers, and these contributed to the shortest stopping distance of the pack—160 feet from 70 mph"

Aegir

Yes, I agree. Perhaps something was wrong with the car. These journalist fleet cars must take some serious abuse. Tragically, these numbers were posted in the only documented head to head comparison that I know of for 6MT variants of these cars.

It's a silly point anyway. As I said before, the performance differences between these cars cannot be ascertained solely through looking at the numbers. The cars have to be experienced. That is why the 325 and G35 bested the TL in this particular C&D comparison - an outcome that I tend to agree with. There are quirks inherent to FWD that cannot be completely mitigated, and they detract from the driving experience. I expect that we are in now complete agreement.

Having said that, if 'windows down, radio off' driving pleasure was my #1 priority I would not be driving any of the cars we are currently discussing! Other factors play a role in the decision, and since those factors are different for each of us, we have arrived at different outcomes. Fortunately, there is a pleasant selection of fine, ever-improving cars available for us to enjoy!

EZZ

Did someone mention Lotus!

missmyprelude

Actually, if you look at my original post, you'll see that I mention th Z and the Maxima. I left out the SE-R (sorry). In any case, the Z went away in 1996, and the Sentra SE-R and 240SX disappeared somewhere around the same time. There's a big gap there between mid-90s and 2002.

Not sure what you mean by this. I'm assuming it's a reference to the current RWD craze? In any event, Honda is doing better than fine, so I don't think there's a problem. Nissan has just pulled itself out of a hole, and I think that's great for everyone (competition is good!).

Actually, I don't think my comparison was naive, and most of the rags during the time will tell you the same thing. The I30 was almost identical to the Maxima. And the G20 was very similar to the Sentra. Inifiniti took this route in order to jump into the luxury segment quickly. I would compare their "platform sharing" during that time to what GM had done during the 70s and 80s (and maybe before, but I'm too young to know) - the bodies and interior looked very similar with minor differences to separate them. Nissan and Honda (as well as others) use platform sharing much differently now. The G35 looks nothing like an FX. The TL looks nothing like the Accord. The I of old looks VERY similar to the Maxima, and shared most of the same mechanicals.

Actually, I guess my other post about sales figures makes sense now. TL sales double G sales, so I don't think RWD/FWD/AWD even plays a role. American buyers in particular are comfortable with all of these formats. If anything, they tend to gravitate toward FWD or AWD. RWD is something that "enthusiasts" are more concerned about, but is not necessarily a sales feature for average drivers. Actually, I consider myself somewhat of an enthusiast, and it isn't even something that I care about except if I were going to spend a lot of time at the track.

I don't think Honda expects the TL to race. In fact, I doubt that that is really Infiniti's expectation either of the G35 sedan. After all RWD may be great for racing, but 4 doors aren't.

TL_6SPD

TL sales are almost the same as the G35 currently. You combine the G35 S and C sales you get almost what the TL sales for.

Eduardo

Hey, nice to see you on the TL board. Thanks for all the insightful feedback on the bimmerfest!

Rcat

Saw an 04 330i with spinners and lowered..it was great..I'm still LMAO..And the guy pulls up next to me and rev's it up..like I'm dumb enough to race in the middle of town..Thats why I dont drive a BMW..way to many poisers and idiots..

missmyprelude

Right. If you combine sedan and coupe, the sales figures for 2004 are closer (34,000 YTD for G35, 38,000 YTD for TL). However, I was keeping these separate (just like Infiniti does) since these are really different cars targetting different people. No sense comparing apples and oranges. I don't think someone looking at a G35 coupe even considers a TL. Nor do I think anyone looking at the TL looks at the G35 coupe. The sedans, on the other hand, are like Accords and Camrys - when you shop for one, you always take a good look at both (unless you're a fool).

TL_6SPD

It's the same car. You have to compare them together.

DARK6mt

iTrader: (1)

Then I guess its safe to say G35 with its "award winning" and with advantage of dual "sedan and coupe" sales still can't top its "Third place" "FWD" TL's sales.

this is also suprising since someone here stated that TL should have been RWD in order to hit the jackpot in the auto market.

jjsC5

If I read this correctly, you are equating sales volume with which is the better car? By that logic, the TL is a better car than a S500 Mercedes, an Audi A8 etc?

No doubt, the FWD does not hurt the sales of the TL because 99.999% of drivers don't drive a car hard enough to care about the handling dynamics at anything over 7/10's driving. That's not a knock - just reality.

DARK6mt

iTrader: (1)

NO. Sales volume is not my way of determining which is "better"

Its just been discussed here. I am adding my thoughts. Read the whole thread, not just this page.

EZZ

I actually shopped both vehicles before buying my coupe. The TL was my other choice but the FWD was the killer for me. I thought the TL was a beautiful car inside and out but the coupe was the better handler and since I'm in so-cal (and live on top of a canyon) RWD would be fully taken advantage of.

BTW, other issues besides performance swayed my decision. One was reliability. Its very debateable to which car is actually more reliable but the previous gen TL had the crappy autos and I didn't want to deal with that. I can handle headliners falling or the rattle here and there, but powertrain issues are a PAIN.

Second, I actually like the interior of the coupe a little better than the TL in some respects. One, you sit MUCH lower in the coupe than in the sedans. Everything is basically chest level in the coupe and I prefered that type of layout. Finally, the dealer experience was also a large factor. Infiniti is the BEST dealership experience I've every had (including Lexus, Toyota, Honda, Acura, and Nissan...and yes, I've directly dealt with every one of these dealerships). The Lexus dealership was also good, but my Infiniti dealer provides free loaners (don't even have to refill!) for even minor things such as alignments. They wash, vaccuum etc... and absolutely go out of their way to help you with any issues (you wonder why Infiniti is #1 in customer satisfaction).

But even with all these issues and preferences, I would have picked the TL simply because of the features offered in the car. I don't think coupe buyers simply just look at coupes specifically...they cross shop sedans nowadays. Sport Sedans do give you everything sports coupes give you with more usability. Why do you think the CL went the way of the dinosaur, probably because the TL gave you everything the CL did and looked better too boot.

jjsC5

Read the whole story - not just this page??? You've got to be kidding, right? I've posted on every page. I've read every post. I agree you are adding your thoughts. And I'm replying to them!

DARK6mt

iTrader: (1)

got it. Must be mis judgement of some sort.

I think G35 and TL is both outstanding. However this it TL forum and I am TL owner.

End of story.

sbuswell

New 330i is great car, G35 great car, TL great car, great price if it only were RWD would blow away other two, but still holds value, performance and stand features over others. Buy the TL, don't mwaste time with unreliable BMW or ugly generic G35.

missmyprelude

No the sales figures were just in reply to someone saying that Honda would have had a runaway hit on their hands if the TL were RWD. The sales figures were a way of refuting this at some level. It would be interesting to see what would happen if the TL were changed to RWD. I wonder if sales would actually decrease unless they offered an AWD version as well? No need to reply, just pondering...

Actually, I think that most people (even enthusiasts) drive at much less than 7/10s of a cars (like the TL/G35s) capabilities on the street. If not, you're taking unreasonable risk to yourself, your car, and more importantly, other drivers. Heck, even when I feel "racy", I'm still not getting close to the limits on the street.

This is where I dispute the assumed RWD supremacy. On the track, I won't dispute that RWD in general is superior. Accelerating out of corners and being able to rotate the car using RWD "dynamics" is a benefit. However, Honda has negated some of this with the limited slip which helps tighten up the turns. I haven't taken the TL to the track to see how it does (and not sure if I will be), but this is the idea.

Like I've said in previous posts, even though the TL is not a race car, I'd love to see some track times with the TL and see how it compares to some of the competitors. I think Car and Driver did us a disservice by not including this info in their comparison.

EZZ

RWD isn't just "felt" during at-the-limits driving. It is felt everyday in every situation driving. I agree that most people won't care though. As an enthusiast, I care very much. However, you are right in that I won't ever drive at the limits...kinda stupid unless you are at the track. I also think that the TL would keep up very well with the BMW and G35...it has a good enough chassis to mitigate most of the FWD weaknesses and a good engine (with good transmission) to more that make most races a driver's race. However, its not always how fast you get there, but how you get there that is more important. For spirited driving in dry conditions, IMO nothing is as fun as RWD driving (not even AWD!).

brahtw8

The handling issue is primarily about weight transfer. When you accelerate from a stop, the weight shifts to the back of the car. In a RWD car, that gives you increased traction and thus increased acceleration. On a FWD car, the weight transfer unloads the drive wheels, decreasing traction and acceleration. That is why you get 'hood hop' when you drop the clutch on a FWD car from a stop.

On the track, both FWD and RWD cars can be made to oversteer or understeer, or handle neutrally. The weight transfer issue is why a RWD car is better able to put the power down on corner exit, because of the increased weight over the drive wheels.

Tapping the brakes or lifting off the accelerator at turn-in (corner entry) allow you to load the front wheels with weight for your turn. If your front wheels also have to use some of their traction for acceleration, they are not able to use as much for turning. There is only a finite amount of traction, regardless of drivetrain type.

The TL is not going to post earth-shattering lap times. I expect the lap times will be slower than a comparable RWD car (by comparable, I mean same power to weight ratio and transmission type.)

Liquid _Courage

There's good and bad dealerships for every car manufacturer. The Acura dealership I visit is very good, just like the Infiniti dealership you described above. I agree with you, a dealership can be a factor on your next car purchase. Fortunately, there are a lot of dealerships in my area, so I can pick and choose which Acura dealership I like best (4 in a 30 mile radius)

DARK6mt

iTrader: (1)

So we must close this thread. There must be some type of conclusion to this topic.

330I, G35sedan, TL.

All three are great cars. lets break them down to pros and cons.

BMW

Superb handling.
Agressive gearing.
Interior....I like it, some people think its outdated....i think its classic.
exterior.........you know its hot
way overpriced.....but thats BMW for ya.

G35

Great handling, not better than BMW, however for the money its awesome.
Interior, I think they didn't do a great job. ergonomic is below average. Stilll better than GM's interiors.
exterior, I like G-coupe better, specially the rear end, however its still great looking ride with add-on parts from the dealers.
price is a bargain for all the performance you get.

side note : I would get the coupe unless I really need a sedan, if so, then I will def look into the TL.

TL

Great handling for a FWD car. If you get 6mt, with its extra struts, its as good as it gets.
Interior, as you know its the executive class setting with large nav and great ergonomics. User friendly and great look inside out.
Exterior - agressive stance. great lines (grooves) on the side. A killer look at night with HID's on.


Thats it for me. I think Insurance is cheaper with the TL since FWD. I might be wrong. Reliablilty seems to be strong point for all three. Cost of ownership shouldn't be a great factor, if it is you should have bought a hyundai.

Brock_Landers

Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner. Abosulutely agree with everything u wrote.

catsailr

I don't see why people compare the TL to the 330i. It should be compared to the 530i since they are about the same size. I test drove a 530i before I bought my TL. The 530i with similar equipment as the TL would be $58,000. I liked the BMW, but not $23,000 more.

EZZ

I don't see why people compare the G35 coupe to the TL. It should be compared to the Maserati since they are about the same size. I test drove a Masati before I bought my G35 coupe. The Maserati with similar equipment as the G35 Coupe would be $85,000. I liked the Maserati, but not $50,000 more Just poking fun...peace

rets

Well said... they're all great ones.

boltjames

Don't compare Infinity to Hyundai, as Hyundai wins in almost every category.

BJ

TL_6SPD

Yea and don't compare ACURA to KIA, since KIA wins in quality.

Brock_Landers

One should not even speak about cars when he does not even know how to spell the manufacturer. INFINITI not infinity. You don't hear me talking about Acurea ot Lexis.

Liquid _Courage

Maybe it's Infiniti that mispelled Infinity. He can't help it if he spells it the right way. :P

boltjames

Let's try to figure out why I deliberateli mis-spell Infinity now, shall wi? Anyone venture a guess?

BJ

Brock_Landers

OOOhh I know!! Cause your an idiot. Yes I got it right.

1SICKLEX

I agree, great write-up.
BoltJames are you Mike Tyson's son?

Senneca01

Let me guess, you are a 40 year old porn-addict with the intelligence and maturity level of a 3 year old kid?

Or, you single handidly lowered the average I.Q level on this board by an immeasurable number?

Or, maybe it is because you just got COMPLETELY OWNED on this thread?

Which one is it? They all sound like winners to me!

brahtw8

I see you switched an 'i' for a 'y' in 'deliberateli' and left the 'y' instead of 'i' in 'Infinity' but I don't see how the 'i' instead of 'e' in 'wi' fits in.