schoeny14

you had talked about a spec sheet or something with just a detailed list of what we would be getting in our kit. would it be possible to either pm a list or post it. i'm interested, but need more info before i throw down 2Gs, thanks.

Titand19

allmotor has been quite busy, but I will talk to him and ask him to post a speec sheet asap.

power3dfx

would be down if the spec sheet is nice and allmotor will take care of setup. also, i didnt catch a price tag on the kit, i need to know how much the project will cost in entire form (parts and install)
with these questions answered, i would easily be able to make a decision. sorry if you mentioned these things before, maybe i didnt catch 'em.

Titand19

power3dfx....totallly understood. Allmotor will be able to answer some technical questions when he comes on if you have any. As for the price tag, it all depends on how many are interested.

allmotor_2000

I send a parts description to Titand19, so that will be up shortly. The kit is about 90% bolt-on. We are considering including a pre-welded oil-pan (OEM aluminum oil-pan) as well!! The price will not include installation.

As Titand19 said previously, MAX price is $5K, depending on what we include (like a new oil-pan, etc.) the price decreases from there. If you want complete stainless-steel piping, you are definately looking at $5K.

Ask me specific questions that concern you and I can answer them

Juker008

Hey AM2K,

Will the turbo kit still allow me to go back to stock for warranty work? Kinda like how my N2O kit is handled. The only drilling that would be involved would be the oil pan, correct? That is if I wish to go back to stock I would need to replace "just" the oil pan? Are there any other parts that would need to be changed/replaced to go back to stock; i.e. hoses, brackets, bolts/screws, etc. ? Also is there any metal fabrication invoved, any cutting of the metal to allow the turbo to fit?











Juker008

allmotor_2000

Right now, the only thing that requires any sort of 'cutting' is the shift-counterweight. I am trying to figure out a way to avoid this as well - honestly this was a mistake when I was making the kit and I never tried to put it in 6th gear!! Everything else is bolt-on and unbolt-off. Obviously the battery needs to go to the trunk as well.

However, on an auto, we would make the kit absolutely bolt-on except for the battery.

Titand19

The battery is not a issue when getting warrenty work done. I have had my car at the dealer with the battery in the back prior to the turbo.

The oil pan will not need to be removed when brought to the dealer. Just get a plug for the return line.

Titand19

The Turbo Kit consists of the following components:

Turbonetics or Garrett T3/T4 Hybrid Turbo
Tial 35mm Wastegate
Blitz Blowoff
Comptech FPR
Walbro in-tank fuel-pump
Synapse MAP boost-eliminator
Spearco Intercooler
Turbo mounting bracket
Custom A-pipe replacement
Custom downpipe
Custom flex-exhaust pipe
Custom Intercooler piping
Custom Intake piping
Turbo inlet pipe with K&N Filter
Oil-feed line with fittings
Oil-return line with fittings (welding required)
Misc. hoses, vacuum-tee’s,clamps, etc.

Instructions on video and a booklet.

It is understood buyer will relocate battery and do necessary modifications to prepare the car for turbo install.

BlueCLS6

I hope you don't mind me posting this:

I have been staring at this a lot lately. Some questions...
- Would it be possible to swap the turbo 180-deg to have the compressor housing (and intake) in the front and exhaust in the rear?
- Possible at all to utilize the stock airbox (or IceBox)?
Since this will be a 'new' custom kit... it will not necessarily be the same as this one? Any things you didn't like about the first one that you would like to do differently? It would be impressive to make the kit 'factory' looking. I await the new design

allmotor_2000

The IceBox or stock AirBox won't work unless its BEFORE the turbo inlet. It can be done, but I have to re-route the intercooler piping and that's tough if that space where it goes into right now is used by the AirBox.

The turbo could be turned, but you'll find that there won't be room for the bend in the downpipe

Trust me... I tried several placement concepts... and this is what resulted. The only 'improvement' I can do is move the turbo higher so that the shifter-counterweight doesn't need to be cut.

I have other ideas to make more power, but that's to do with more boost, fuel, timing etc.

Titand19

I'm confused about the concept of the stock airbox/icebox. Why would you consider this? What purpose would it serve?

allmotor_2000

It serves no purpose other than to look 'somewhat' stock... although the moment you see the turbo... it negates the purpose

Titand19

That's what I thought.

BlueCLS6

That's right... the transmission would be in the way of the downpipe I don't exactly want it to look stock just suck in cooler air from the IceBox that I already have. With the filter where it is we're probably pulling in a lot warmer air. But yeah, tough enough to run two ducts through there let alone with the airbox still in the way... n/m, just thinking...

Titand19

That's why there is an intercooler.

allmotor_2000

Trust me... no matter WHERE you put the inlet (& K&N), compressing the air will heat it up significantly. Temperature goes up proportionally with pressure. Also, the turbo itself is exceedingly hot!! With Comptech's S/C, it makes sense to put use the Ice-Box as the S/C itself isn't too hot and its not a compressor.

The intercooler takes care of all the needed cooling

Juker008

What about an liquid-to-air intercooler. I don't know much about the intercooler, so would it be possible and feasable? Is a
liquid-to-air intercooler water injection, or is that something else that could also be incorporated into the system?









Juker008

BlueCLS6

My point is... if you start with cooler air, you will end up with cooler air .

scalbert

Very true, such as with the following example which should use absolute temperature values in K, but using relative numbers should be close:

Say at 0.5 Bar 100 F is added to the air when compressed. Say the IC is 75% efficient removing about 75 F of the increased value.

With under hood intake temps at 140 F on a 90 F day:
140 + 100 = 240 - 75 = 165 F

Versus 100 F CAI intake temps on the same 90 F day:
100 + 100 = 200 - 75 = 125 F

This is a simple example but one which is realistic of intake temperature variations especially at that location. I could see temperature deltas as high as 60 F. This would allow for 5% - 8% more power potential. But then again, the routing of pipe might not allow for a CAI with this installation.

allmotor_2000

Yes, but this is a turbocharger... and I agree that if you start with cooler air you end up with cooler air, but not to the degree you guys are talking about. With the S/C, I am sure that is the case.

The compressor and turbine section of the turbo are not that insulated from each other... and even though air flows through that pretty quickly, it gets hot! I can't imagine that any benefit of a CAI on a turbo-car would be negated by that alone!!

I noticed more power by insulating that last portion of the intake-piping (that goes above the turbo)... this is post-intercooler, by the way. The turbo generates a LOT of heat... and I don't see how a CAI is going to help!

scalbert

This is not specific to a turbo or SC; you can't get away from PV = nRT. Even though the turbo is more efficient at compressing the air, it will heat it by compressing it; Ideal Gas Law. If you start with hotter air, your delta may be the same as with starting with cooler air but the end value is higher. Now the IC is required to remove more heat which it cannot. It only removes the percentage amount its efficiency allows.

The heat removal of the IC is a percentage of the heat in the system versus ambient (since we are using an air/air cooler).

The heat transferred through the center section is very minimal and not worth considering. It is the ingestion of hot, under hood air which is the question.

Juker008

Juker008

scalbert

A liquid/air IC is great for drag racing if you have a large enough reservoir to hold ice. This way you can get greater than 100% efficiency out of the intercooler.

The problem with them in a street application is that once the coolant is heated, it takes a long time to cool it. Heat transfers from air to coolant well, but not the other way around. Such as in the case when stuck in traffic or on an auto-x; you can heat soak the system very easily.

An air/air system does not suffer the same issues as the cooling media is the same as what is being cooled. But you are limited to the ambient temperatures though. Recovery time is also reduced and can be aided with a simple water spray system.

Juker008

Ok so how bout water injection?










Juker008

scalbert

It works but just to allow 1 - 2 lbs more boost. It isn't a replacement for a real intercooler system and is really a supplemental item.

I installed the ERL Aquamist System 2s on my GTP many years ago and it work fine to a point. It did suppress detonation when I went to an even smaller pulley but the gains weren't as much as I wanted. The water you spray in the tract will actually displace some of the O2 you need. So even though you will cool down the air you haven't increased its O2 content to the level of which a proper intercooler would.

The problem I had on the GTP was that due to the blower being installed on top of a short deck manifold in the vee. The only place to mount the nozzle was in the manifold which was post EGR. As such the nozzle, with fine opening in the 0.3 - 0.5 mm range, clogged quickly. The only way to clean them was to remove them which required removal of the blower.

bkknight369

wow this is all quite interesting...makes me wish UCI offered a Automotive Engineering major

civic4982

seems to be a lot of talk here a bout theoretical values.

how's the startup of this turbo kit coming along? is the idea dead now?

Titand19

the idea is still here, I took off most of the kit yesterday, We're still waiting for responses.

civic4982

damn I'm really late in hearing about all his stuff. that's what I get for neglecting the board for month I suppose. I just NOW saw the pics to your Turbo install titand19. I need to start scrounging together money to do this whole turbo thing and get mysef some new wheels. Was the manifold off of a CT header? What're the details of the kit you're looking into buildng (i.e. turbo, spoolup RPM, best boost, computerized tuning, etc).

titand19: this is a bit off topic but what kind of rotors do you have there? is that a big brake uprgade. I don't wanna hijack your thread so just PM me the details. Also how much did you payfor them and those UR pulleys?

CL SLeePeR

What is the max psi that the Garrett turbo can produce?

power3dfx

more than our cars can handle!

civic4982

which garrett turbo are you talking about?

civic4982

my friend with an LS Turbo Integra is selling his turbo. I'm going to talk to him about his A/R ratios etc and come back to you experts for advice ok? I've only bought kits before and never pieced one together for myself. How do you calculate out what specs a certain motor would need for running 'efficienty' ?

allmotor_2000

Different turbos boost differently on different motors... you need to see the compressor map and evaluate your engine's requirements (displacement, flow, hp etc.) and match up a turbo accordingly. A street-driven integra's turbo is too small for the CL-S.

CL SLeePeR

Will the turbo fit on a 03 TL-S??

civic4982

the TLS should be similar to engine bay design as the auto CLS am I right? Same chassis, same motor, same in and out besides having 2 more doors right?

Titand19

Correct, there is a good chance that a auto kit will be produced due to the fact that there are only a few 6 speeders interested.

BlueCLS6

I'm sure the kit could be universal... just one intake pipe would be different . I am still waiting to hear about my raise btw... still interested !! If nothing else just to get the kit now while it is 'available'. FMICs rule!

allmotor_2000

The kit cannot be universal as the turbo cannot be placed in the same spot... sorry!!