Ricepuddin

I have decided it's time to replace the ageing 30D with something a little higher up on camera food chain. The idea is when i get home from Iraq, to either pick up of a 5D MKII or a 7D body and a L lens of some sort (probably one of the "cheaper" ones) and i wanted the opinion of people that have used them


Most of the shots i take are action shots. my understanding is the 7d shines here (faster frame rate and more points of focus).

However the 5D MKII is full frame.

I could probably get a 7D and L series for under $3K where as the 5D MKII is $3500 as a kit.

any advice?

is300eater

if you do mostly action shots/sports, then definitely 8fps > 3.9fps IMO. And in most or at least many cases, when shooting action shots, the 1.6x crop actually is to your advantage cuz of the "extra reach" (vs full frame). Plus it's cheaper, which would give you some extra money for lenses.

SaaBaaDoo

I have both cameras and each one has it's strong points. Like mentioned above, 7D for action/sports you can't go wrong. The autofocus system on the 7D is WAY better than the AF system on the 5DII.

HOWEVER, the full frame sensor in the 5DII is amazing! The image quality winner between my 5DII and 7D is always the 5DII.

sixsixfour

IQ would go to the 5D MkII, but that said, the 7D is not that far off. The only limiting factor is the sensor size, but if your prime reason is for action shots, given the same fast lens, the 7D blows the 5D MkII out of the water. the AF system on the 5D MkII is a carryover from the previous model, whereas the 7D is another world altogether.

there is a steep learning curve with the 7D though; its AF system is quite complicated for the novice user.

srika

if you say most of the shots you take are action shots, my nod goes to the 7D. 3.9fps is very slow for action.

Ricepuddin

I never thought of crop working in my favor, that is a good point.

What lens do you use with the 7D? Do you by chance have any samples you could share?

I think the speed and the AF capability have me pretty much sold on the 7D, unless Canon drops something new before i get back that will be what i go with.



Thanks everyone for the help

srika

The 5D Mark III is coming "soon". Which probably will be around March next year.

Also, it's rumored that the 7D Mark II will arrive next year as well.

Both of these cameras are looking to be a considerable leap ahead in terms of technology and performance.

Not sure how long you can wait, but you might want to keep this in mind.

SaaBaaDoo

The lenses I use that shine on my 5DII over my 7D are the 85 1.2L, 70-200 2.8L IS, 50 1.8, and 17-40 f4L. I don't have any comparisons right off hand but with my 5DII I really don't have to do much sharpening in post. The 7D I have to sharpen everything! Maybe my 7D is off just a bit, but I've microadjusted the hell out of that thing and still can't get the image quality that my 5DII does straight out of camera.

High ISO on the 5DII seems to work better as well. I typically shoot indoor weddings at 3200-6400 and the images seem clearer than the same settings on the 7D.

I know there are tons of 5DII vs. 7D comparisons out there that have been beaten to death. These are just my personal experiences with the two bodies I have. If I'm shooting any portraits or landscapes, I'll go for the 5DII every time, if the subject is moving, the 7D comes out.

SaaBaaDoo

I can't wait for the 5DIII! I'll most likely order it as soon as I can. Since I had the 7D before the 5DII, I still can't stand the AF system on the 5DII.

srika

regarding sharpness on the 7D, personally from what I have seen on mine, I think it's a learning curve issue. I had trouble with it early on, I would wonder why some shots just aren't that sharp. But, I got better with it over time and found that in terms of focusing, the 7D is like a scalpel compared to the 5D (classic in my case, but same AF so it should be similar). My guess is that the AF and focus system in general is so much more fine-tuned than the 5D's that it requires more time to ensure you are focused correctly. Just my guess.

SaaBaaDoo

Could be, but I'm going to be sending in both bodies soon for the locking mode dial mod so I'll have them look at the 7D just to make sure it's within spec. Just seems no matter what I do, I can't get the sharpness out of the 7D without adding in post.

sixsixfour

the 7D has a very strong AA filter which contributes to the soft images if you dont apply any sharpening in post. add to that the high pixel density (more of an issue if you use slower speeds and there is a bit of camera movement), and you have the two common factors for soft images.

using subpar lens (unlikely in your case) would also make things worse.

Ricepuddin

Well I'll probably still be in South West Asia at that point, so waiting won't be a big deal. Hopefully Canon will put out some info in the next few months, at very least it will be a chance to snag a cheaper 7D or 5DMKII

II'll have to keep the sharpeness in mind, im sure it's worlds better then my current 30d, hell the 60d is a huge improvement over the 30. I have seen a few of the reviews on youtube and some articales, I like to get opinions from people who use them more then a few hours to a few days such as yourself.

Thanks again

sixsixfour

I can give you a comparison between a 30D and a 7D if you want. I have both (well, those and a 50D and a Rebel XT). Ill use a standard lens if you want and you can compare.

srika

I have read about the 7D requiring more sharpening in post than the 5D and 5D2. So maybe that is what is going on here (and not what I said earlier about learning curve).

Ricepuddin

That actually would be great! Thanks

sixsixfour

the 7D has a stronger AA filter and such, softens the image ever so slightly. so minute factors like slower shutter speeds combined with little camera shake shows up a lot more on images. so yes, a lot more sharpening (or combination of post production) is applied in post to get the desired result.

but on top of that, the 7D does have a steep learning curve, especially fine tuning and adapting the AF system to work for you. it took me a bit to narrow down my settings to get the kind of AF accuracy I wanted. but once you get it nailed, it is a highly precise AF system.

here is a pic of someone using the spot focus of the 7D on moving dragonflies, showing just how accurate it can get:

sixsixfour

I'll do a comparison using mid to high ISO using a 15-85mm F/3.5~5.6 IS USM lens for you. starting from like ISO400-upwards on a subject under incandescent light or natural light (flourescent tends to have shifting color patterns), or worst-case, flash.

Ricepuddin

Looking forward to it!

synth19

I love the 7D AF system, but the noise @ mid ISO's are definitely a big weakness in this cam. Certainly correctable in PP, but I expected better.

srika

agreed - I pretty much never go above 1000. and when you correct in PP you lose sharpness and detail. sux

wndrlst

I go over 1000 frequently at events. Yes, there is loss when noise reduction is applied, but I try to keep in mind that I'm getting shots without flash or with far less flash than I'd ever have achieved with film, and I'm happy for them. It's a look, just like grainy high ASA film had a look, that's expected in certain conditions, IMO.

I would love to have a 5DII to add to my 7D's someday, but not to replace them.

I do adore the IQ of the 5DII. There's just a dimensionality and texture to the images that seems to be unique to full frame. I'd lose some of my EF-S lenses, reach on my EF lenses, and a great AF system if I turfed my 7D's altogether.

is300eater

there are a lot of advantages to having both FF and crop sensor

sixsixfour

just wanted you to know I didnt forget about you. I have the pics, just havent uploaded them. went to hockey camp and shot a couple GT-R Black Editions this weekend

Ricepuddin

All good man. Take your time, I am in no rush. Sounds like a pretty damn good weekend

sixsixfour

yeah it was

here's a couple from the GT-R shoot. I used the 7D + 15-85mm F/3.5~5.6 IS USM on these. that should give you an idea of the IQ.



7D
1/320 @ F/6.3
ISO 200




7D
1/250 @ F/8
ISO 200




7D
1/125 @ F/8
ISO 400


this last one was handheld:



7D
1/4 @ F/4.5
ISO 400

sixsixfour

ok. its not very accurate or overly technical. it was straight JPEG only, set to portrait, AWB, using flash.

here are the setup pics:

sixsixfour

30D

ISO 3200 (H)


ISO 1600


ISO 1000


ISO 800


ISO 400


ISO 200

sixsixfour

7D

ISO 200


ISO 400


ISO 800


ISO 1000


ISO 1600


ISO 2000


ISO 2500


ISO 3200


ISO 4000


ISO 5000


ISO 6400


ISO 12800 (H)

Sandals

iTrader: (2)

There was a thread comparing the 7D to 5D2 on potn a few days ago. But like others have said the 7D does give you more "reach" but the IQ (Image Quality) and detail will not be the same on the 5D2. It's sharper on the 5D2 but for you it may come down to the difference in fps.

Ricepuddin

The GTR pictures look great, those alone show me that I'll be happy with the 7D.

In the comparison, i can see that it's sharper then the 30. Also the photo at 200iso on the 7d looks well lit, where as the 30d looks dark. That was a huge complaint i was having with the 30 all my photo's would come out dark, or darker then i wanted.

Thanks for taking the time to do this, you've been a big help!

Ricepuddin

I have not been on that site in awhile, i'll check it out. Thanks for the heads up

sixsixfour

You're welcome.

I tried to standardize as much as I can (JPEG only, same Picture Style Settings, same shutter speed set to 1/20 Tv mode, same lens and same flash), but we're obviously talking about a DiGiC II vs a Dual DiGiC IV system too. so image processing ability is going to lean more on the 7D.

granted if I had worked on my settings in Manual mode on the 30D and expose to the right, it would be similar to the 7D. but then that negates doing a straight-up, same mode setting.

ChodTheWacko

I spent quite a bit debating over whether to get the 7D or the 5DII.
The core debate for me was the speed of the 7D over the high ISO of the 5DII.
And in the end, the speed won out, and I would do it again.

High frame rate is useful for various things. It makes 'one burst HDR' somewhat doable. And an 'action' shot can be something as trivial as those 'jump in the air' pictures that chinese people love to do so much.

I don't actually do servo all that often, and I think I would now trade autofocus speed for cleaner high ISO. I don't think I would give up (much) frame rate, though.

And I admit - I enjoy the convenience of the internal flash - sometimes my external gets flaky. Due to the prism size, I don't think Canon will ever make a full frame body with an internal flash. (I suppose they could off-center it, though)

If that "Canon is making a D3" rumor pans out, that could be exactly what I need.

- Frank

Ricepuddin

Well just an Update, I went with the 5D MkII. It was on slick deals for $1800 and decided it was worth it. Also picked up a 24-70mm f/2.8L lens for $1299. Had contemplated the MKIII for awhile, but for that price it's not worth it to me.

LKLD

Congrats! So was it the FF, at a good price, that made you go with the 5DII over the FPS of the 7D?

Ricepuddin

Yeah I couldn't get get past wanting a FF camera, and the deal just seemed to good to pass up. I figured I could have my 30D reconditioned and use it for when i need a faster shutter and use the 5d for everything else.

sixsixfour

at that price I would have probably picked one up too. congrats!!

Ricepuddin

Thanks man! It should come in today, giving me about a week and a half of play time before I ship back out. Can't wait!