Why SH-AWD isn't the way: BMW X6 DPC
11-19-2007, 02:23 PM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Why SH-AWD isn't the way: BMW X6 DPC
This shows that for Acura to succeed, it really can't rely on SHAWD only.
http://www.caranddriver.com/previews...x6.html?al=149
According to Car and Driver:
The X6 will serve as the introductory vehicle for a new technology BMW calls Dynamic Performace Control (DPC) which is a further development of the company's xDrive all-wheel-drive system. Similar in concept to Acura's Super Handling All-Wheel Drive (SH-AWD), DPC apportions engagement of the rear wheels from side to side based on need, and like the Acura system, it can rotate the outside wheel faster than the inside wheel in hard cornering, thus improving cornering speed.
Unlike the Acura system, need is determined on the basis of yaw instead of wheelspin, and DPC operates by clutches, so engagement is constant rather than throttle-dependent. Together with BMW’s various stability and traction control systems, DPC seems to make the X6 exceptionally stable on low-adhesion surfaces and also seems to give the vehicle nearly neutral handling, although understeer will prevail at the limit.
BMW development engineers say they could have programmed the system to be more aggressive (read “oversteer”) but settled on mild understeer to help keep their customers from running out of talent (read “avoidance of product-liability lawsuits”).
As noted, DPC will debut with the X6 next summer, but BMW plans to make it available on other all-wheel-drive models, including sedans, beginning with the 2009 model year.
http://www.caranddriver.com/previews...x6.html?al=149
According to Car and Driver:
The X6 will serve as the introductory vehicle for a new technology BMW calls Dynamic Performace Control (DPC) which is a further development of the company's xDrive all-wheel-drive system. Similar in concept to Acura's Super Handling All-Wheel Drive (SH-AWD), DPC apportions engagement of the rear wheels from side to side based on need, and like the Acura system, it can rotate the outside wheel faster than the inside wheel in hard cornering, thus improving cornering speed.
Unlike the Acura system, need is determined on the basis of yaw instead of wheelspin, and DPC operates by clutches, so engagement is constant rather than throttle-dependent. Together with BMW’s various stability and traction control systems, DPC seems to make the X6 exceptionally stable on low-adhesion surfaces and also seems to give the vehicle nearly neutral handling, although understeer will prevail at the limit.
BMW development engineers say they could have programmed the system to be more aggressive (read “oversteer”) but settled on mild understeer to help keep their customers from running out of talent (read “avoidance of product-liability lawsuits”).
As noted, DPC will debut with the X6 next summer, but BMW plans to make it available on other all-wheel-drive models, including sedans, beginning with the 2009 model year.
11-19-2007, 03:15 PM
#3
The sizzle in the Steak
So much for "super" 
It appears BMW is now "super"
It appears BMW is now "super"
11-19-2007, 03:16 PM
#4
6G TLX-S
Originally Posted by shrykhar
Doesn't SH-AWD use clutchpacks too?
And how is this a knock on Acura? (Not defending them, just wondering where the connection is from this article)
And how is this a knock on Acura? (Not defending them, just wondering where the connection is from this article)
I don't see how this is a knock on Acura either !?
What I see is that other car makers, such as Audi and now BMW, are racing ahead to catch up with Honda/Acura's SH-AWD technology.
11-19-2007, 03:19 PM
#5
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
Yes, SH-AWD also uses electrically engaged clutches according to Honda's description.
I don't see how this is a knock on Acura either !?
What I see is that other car makers, such as Audi and now BMW, are racing ahead to catch up with Honda/Acura's SH-AWD technology.
I don't see how this is a knock on Acura either !?
What I see is that other car makers, such as Audi and now BMW, are racing ahead to catch up with Honda/Acura's SH-AWD technology.
Exactly. If anything this the first time since Vtec that Honda has been first at anything. And I'd imagine they plan to improve SH-AWD anyway.
11-19-2007, 03:25 PM
#6
Moderator Alumnus
The article is really hammering on how Acura detects when to shift power. BMW can detect the need before any tire spin happens.
Has nothing to do with the clutches and whatnot.
Has nothing to do with the clutches and whatnot.
11-19-2007, 03:29 PM
#7
6G TLX-S
Originally Posted by dom
Exactly. If anything this the first time since Vtec that Honda has been first at anything. And I'd imagine they plan to improve SH-AWD anyway.
Just like the ABS developed by Bosch. Right now they are up to ABS 8.
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11-19-2007, 09:51 PM
#8
Originally Posted by SiGGy
The article is really hammering on how Acura detects when to shift power. BMW can detect the need before any tire spin happens.
Has nothing to do with the clutches and whatnot.
Has nothing to do with the clutches and whatnot.
SH-AWD v 2.0 will probably do the same, and then some.
11-19-2007, 11:46 PM
#10
_____ like a rabbit
who buys a product with a feature called "super handling all wheel drive?" supers a words use in dollar store products, not 50k+ vehicles. Lost in translation i guess...
Last edited by stangg172004; 11-19-2007 at 11:48 PM.
11-20-2007, 10:01 AM
#11
Pro
Thread Starter
I'm taking my own spin with the article. What I'm trying to say is, Acura has a nice AWD system, and in one way or another, Acura has been trying to make it the selling point for its cars, but it hasn't worked that well because other aspects of the vehicles (RL, RDX) are somewhat lacking. Now that others like BMW and Audi are catching up fast, Acura better make sure the next TL and TSX not only have improved AWD, but other features and engine that make them more competitive.
11-20-2007, 10:47 AM
#12
Senior Moderator
Unlike the Acura system, need is determined on the basis of yaw instead of wheelspin, and DPC operates by clutches, so engagement is constant rather than throttle-dependent.
11-20-2007, 10:55 AM
#13
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by SiGGy
The article is really hammering on how Acura detects when to shift power. BMW can detect the need before any tire spin happens.
sort of like being pro-active instead of re-active...
11-20-2007, 12:50 PM
#14
6G TLX-S
Originally Posted by TMQ
I'm taking my own spin with the article. What I'm trying to say is, Acura has a nice AWD system, and in one way or another, Acura has been trying to make it the selling point for its cars, but it hasn't worked that well because other aspects of the vehicles (RL, RDX) are somewhat lacking. Now that others like BMW and Audi are catching up fast, Acura better make sure the next TL and TSX not only have improved AWD, but other features and engine that make them more competitive.
11-20-2007, 01:26 PM
#15
The sizzle in the Steak
Originally Posted by phile
SH-AWD v 2.0 will probably do the same, and then some.
11-20-2007, 08:02 PM
#16
Originally Posted by stangg172004
who buys a product with a feature called "super handling all wheel drive?" supers a words use in dollar store products, not 50k+ vehicles. Lost in translation i guess...
11-20-2007, 08:48 PM
#17
I'm Down Right Fierce!
Originally Posted by TMQ
This shows that for Acura to succeed, it really can't rely on SHAWD only.
I mean in theory Acura has been "succeeding" with FWD for years now, and will probably do better if SH-AWD is offered for all their models.
Maybe it's just me, but I think SH-AWD is a step in a "better" direction for Acura; I mean they could just choose to stay FWD only, which would be consistent with what Honda has been doing for years.
Of course, RWD would be a Godsend, but it seems as though Acura isn't ready to make that leap... but they are ready to take on Bentley and Maybach!
11-20-2007, 09:23 PM
#18
Smitty's Moral Police
Originally Posted by stangg172004
who buys a product with a feature called "super handling all wheel drive?" supers a words use in dollar store products, not 50k+ vehicles. Lost in translation i guess...
11-21-2007, 01:47 PM
#19
Some dude
Originally Posted by stangg172004
who buys a product with a feature called "super handling all wheel drive?" supers a words use in dollar store products, not 50k+ vehicles. Lost in translation i guess...
super sport.
11-21-2007, 02:51 PM
#20
6G TLX-S
Originally Posted by BraveDemon
Eh. That's a subjective argument. If I had to pick between FWD or SH-AWD, then SH-AWD all the way.
11-23-2007, 04:45 PM
#22
SH-AWD Technological Overview (11:47)
Released: April, 2004
http://world.honda.com/HDTV/news/2004-4040401a/
News Release (April 1 , 2004)
http://world.honda.com/news/2004/4040401.html
Released: April, 2004
http://world.honda.com/HDTV/news/2004-4040401a/
News Release (April 1 , 2004)
http://world.honda.com/news/2004/4040401.html
11-24-2007, 05:30 AM
#23
Senior Moderator
SuperAmerica
12-03-2007, 07:43 PM
#26
Senior Moderator
But Acura (if they come out with a 2.0) will probably release it for 1 car, and then when its been out for a while, add it to another car, instead of upgrading every model. So by the time the last model gets it, its outdated.
12-03-2007, 08:29 PM
#27
Originally Posted by JJaber06
Didn't BMW essentially copy Acura and improve on it?
not that it's a bad thing, the Japanese used that strategy for decades.
12-04-2007, 09:19 PM
#28
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TodaSi:
There's no need for Acura to "step up" until there's actually persuasive evidence that the BMW system is actually superior in some meaningful way. We have no evidence that that's the case.
There's no need for Acura to "step up" until there's actually persuasive evidence that the BMW system is actually superior in some meaningful way. We have no evidence that that's the case.
12-04-2007, 10:53 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by H1K1F1
TodaSi:
There's no need for Acura to "step up" until there's actually persuasive evidence that the BMW system is actually superior in some meaningful way. We have no evidence that that's the case.
There's no need for Acura to "step up" until there's actually persuasive evidence that the BMW system is actually superior in some meaningful way. We have no evidence that that's the case.
For the masses it's all about Marketing. As long as the system is moderately effective, the Marketing makes the difference.
12-04-2007, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by H1K1F1
TodaSi:
There's no need for Acura to "step up" until there's actually persuasive evidence that the BMW system is actually superior in some meaningful way. We have no evidence that that's the case.
There's no need for Acura to "step up" until there's actually persuasive evidence that the BMW system is actually superior in some meaningful way. We have no evidence that that's the case.
12-05-2007, 12:07 AM
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I love the title of this thread "Why SH-AWD isn't the way: BMW X6 DPC"
sounds more like they think that technology IS the way and created their own, similar system
sounds more like they think that technology IS the way and created their own, similar system
12-05-2007, 12:29 AM
#32
Honda Fanboy
Originally Posted by vishnus11
I think that article is inaccurate...SH-AWD DOES work on the basis of yaw and NOT wheelspin. It is a proactive system - I'm sure owners can corroborate this.
Currently, Saab, Audi and BMW have copied Acura's SH-AWD. I already know for a fact that Saab and Audi's system is inferior to Acura's. As for BMW, it may be a close equal but it is definitely not better than Acura's.
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