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Honda is so obsessive about having the best gas mileage on the road that Charlie Baker, its U.S. chief engineer, once crawled underneath a BMW at a car show to gather some competitive intel. Baker wanted to make sure the SUV he was developing, the Acura MDX from Honda's luxury division, would top BMW's X5, so he was snapping photos of the Beemer's underbelly to size up its aerodynamics. A BMW exec tugged on his leg, asking, "Can I help you, sir?'' Baker's response: "Not unless you have a jack.''

Despite the megawatt buzz about the Toyota Prius, Honda actually tops the charts for fuel economy among auto-makers in America. Of the 10 best gas misers on the road today, Honda has seven of them, according to the EPA. Honda also offers more hybrid models—three—than anyone else (though Toyota will soon catch up). Honda has always made leading in fuel economy a bedrock principal, even when American car buyers could not care less. But with gas and oil prices remaining stubbornly high, drivers are caring more, and their interest in mileage extends beyond what's parked in their driveway. Improving fuel economy is seen by many as a necessary step in reducing America's dependence on foreign oil and advancing a "green'' agenda for the environment.

Baker had to learn the hard way how important fuel economy is to Honda. When he was engineering the MDX, the former GM engineer tried to convince his new bosses that Americans didn't care about gas mileage. He was sent back to the drawing board with a simple instruction: "Make it greener.'' That's how he ended up under that BMW. His spying paid off. The MDX gets 23 miles per gallon; the X5 gets 21.

Now that Honda's mileage mantra is looking smart, NEWSWEEK's Keith Naughton sat down with Baker to discuss what drives the automaker to go for the green:

Naughton: Honda worried about gas mileage when gas mileage wasn't cool. Why?

Baker: Everyone at Honda views being in a company as being far more than just turning a profit. It's not that we're poor businessmen, but I think everybody at Honda is fired by the dream of creating great products that are the most efficient in their class.

How difficult was it to keep that principle in the '90s when the SUV boom was in full swing and gas prices were at record lows?

Well, it certainly caused us pain. For a long time our president was strongly against getting into the truck market because he could not see how it was consistent with Honda values. But after a long time of wrestling with it, we said, "There are other people who are developing these trucks with horrendous fuel economy and we can do better."

How did your rivals react when the MDX debuted in 2000?

We were criticized for being late to the party. People repeatedly told us we were going to fail.

How difficult was it to engineer the MDX to meet Honda's stringent mileage standards?

I'll never forget it. I was a rookie leading this MDX team. We'd done the research and we had an efficient package. But when we pitched our business plan to the board of directors, Mr. [Koichi] Amemiya, who was in charge of North America, his No. 1 comment was: "It should be more green." I made the mistake of saying, "But sir, nobody cares about the green issues." And he just smiled and said "I know."

But I'm sure your research showed that gas mileage was a very low priority to car buyers.

It certainly was, but I am absolutely ashamed of ever making that remark. Feel free not to include it in the interview.

Does your research now show that people care about gas mileage?

If you are talking about large SUVs, yes, they are giving some lip service to fuel economy. But that is sort of a "here today, gone tomorrow"-type phenomenon. The point is not that customers demand it or don't demand it, because that's absolutely not the viewpoint of Honda. When you are a philosophy-driven company, you don't ask the customer if they agree with your philosophy.

Is America's taste in cars changing to greener vehicles, or will we eventually default to our bigger-is-better comfort zone?

The car-buying public is changing.

Has the SUV boom peaked?

The market is starting to change. It's not going to stay with the traditional SUV. Already you see that with the growth of CUVs, crossover utility vehicles, which just encompasses a huge variety of concepts.

Toyota and Nissan have large SUVs to compete with Detroit's big boys. Could Honda ever bring itself to develop a hulking SUV?

We don't get the Hummer, we just don't get it. There would not be a lot of motivation within Honda to develop the Hummer. We would be saying we could make it lighter, we can make it have better fuel economy. But in the end, it's certainly not a Hummer. It's closer to a Pilot. So we're at cross-purposes with a vehicle like a Hummer.

Would Honda ever build a full-size pickup truck?

We studied traditional pickup trucks till we were blue in the face. And we said, "Why would we be the sixth manufacturer to do the same concept of a pickup as Ford, GM and Chrysler? Let's think about it in a different way. Let's make a Honda pickup. Let's surprise people with things like a trunk in the bed and great fuel economy. Let's create a pickup the customer can't even imagine." And we think that's what we've done with the Ridgeline.

Toyota talks about every car being a hybrid someday. What do you think is going to be on our highways in 10 and 20 years?

We would love to make 100 percent hybrids. Obviously, there are huge challenges, but it would be a perfect embodiment of the Honda philosophy. In the longer term, you want to move to a carbon-free type of mobility. So we are determined to lead in fuel cells.

But developing an affordable electric-fuel-cell car seems ever elusive. Will we ever get there or are we trying to crack the wrong nut?

We've got fuel cells on the road right now. At Honda that's the equivalent of the moon shot. We absolutely pick that as a challenge. Can we guarantee there will be 32 percent of Hondas that will have fuel cells by 2013? No. But there is a huge commitment to fuel cells.

As you develop future vehicles, what are your assumptions about gas prices?

We don't really care. Why would we?

Well, because it could have an effect on consumers' choices.

We don't spend a lot of time agonizing about fuel consumption. The answer is already clear. You are going to have the best fuel economy in class of any vehicle. Period. Have a nice day. You don't need to do any market research. You don't need to do any fancy negotiations because you are never going to get anything approved by the board of directors without proving you have the best fuel economy in class. That's it.

Honda leads the car business in fuel economy, but not in perception. Why is Toyota viewed as the greenest automaker?

That's very frustrating for us. Honda's head and shoulders the greenest company, yet other companies with less accomplishments are able to capitalize because they've got a better PR machine.

Maybe it's just hard to get respect for something as sensible as gas mileage. Even with gas at $2 a gallon, people still don't buy a car simply for good fuel economy, right?

Exactly right. What we've got is the stealth approach. We're not trying to say buy this car—yeah, it's ugly, yeah, it really doesn't have the features that you want, yeah, maybe it's a little too expensive, but buy it anyway because it's the right thing to do. Because No. 1, you would go out of business. We have to make an attractive car and then one day you'll wake up and say, "Hey, this thing gets pretty good fuel economy." And you'll feel good about it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8272373/site/newsweek/

TypeSAddict

You know, as frustrated as it can be sometimes with Honda seemingly unrelenting in its drive to place 'green' issues ahead of itself being a major contender in certain markets, I'm glad they have this outlook. We need someone looking out for the planet

charliemike

Shouldn't it be we, the consumers?

Python2121

i think american consumers as a whole are too thickheaded to care. basically all of the american steriotypes apply

my priorities are
driving dynamics>interior>gas mileage>everything else, though reliability can swing all around there, but i figure most people dont even have gas mileage on their list, especially if they are buying suv's and pickups

matelot

read it few days ago in Newsweek

heyitsme

Why because they buy what they like and have different priorities? Don't think that makes an f-150 driver a bad guy and a prius driver a good guy...

Python2121

different priorities yes. is it about being a good guy or a bad guy? no but it makes you a bad person to not be concious AT ALL about the environment and natrual resources.

so to clarify, it does not make you a bad person if its low on your priority list, but IMO if efficiency is nowhere on your priority list, that makes you a bad person

and i give this a big big IMO, though i think any reasonable person would agree


but i do think that this fits in with foreign steriotypes of americans being wasteful

goldmemberer

Make gas $8/gallon. Let the problems fix themselves. Beef up public transport so everyone doesn't need a car.

Los Angeles, of all places, if fucking ridiculous. You may not be able to afford food, but you _need_ a car.

Belzebutt

What if all your life you've been told by your role models that the earth's resources are unlimited and need no protecting, and that what's under assault is the wonderful capitalist system that gives us our prosperity, attacked by an army of socialist tree-huggers who have a secret agenda?

I don't think all these people are evil, just ignorant.

heyitsme

I'd bet its on the majority of peoples list, doubt anyone has an endless gas budget or wants to fill up everyday or wants to screw up the environment. But you also can't blame the consumer for lack of available technology in larger cars. Yea thats great Honda and Toyota have put these little hybrid cars out, but the consumers need them in large cars/large suvs/ large trucks because thats the most popular type of vehicle now.

As far as foreign stereotypes , whatever. People should focus their time and energy on more positive things.

heyitsme

Oh, that would be great, lets punish everyone including people who drive toyota echos. Why should the consumers be punished? Why not fine the manufacturers for every year that their mpgs don't increase.

Honda has a diesel available in europe that gets excellent gas mileage, lets fine them for every year it takes them to meet california emmissions...

I think existing technology has to be slowly phased out, while new technology is phased in to give everyone a fair opportunity to switch over(consumers and manufacturers).

goldmemberer

MPG isn't the problem in America. Public transport is, for the most part. It's not as easy to implement as it is in Europe since the population is so widely spread out but what we have now is leading us down the path of destruction.

Not that I mind.

Python2121

you have good points. lack of technology and support by the big 3 prevents people from getting greener cars

Ken1997TL

8 dollars per gallon?

You'd be punishing the poor.

Believe it or not, not everyone lives near public transportation. Some of us have to drive to work or school and whatnot.

KOP_Snake

*cough* bus stop across the street *cough*

gavriil

It's simple IMO.

Emissions regulations are decided by the gov't and
Gas consumption (being high or low) is decided by the end consumer.

Companies follow the above two and manufacture accordingly.

Ken1997TL

That bus system is worthless and operates on the strangest time table. Its completely useless to many students in the area.