deandorsey

http://www.leftlanenews.com/


psh

Water-S

more UAW B.S.

mrdeeno

i think this qualifies as a hate crime.

majesty

Glad they actually decided to do something about this. It amazes how people stoop to such levels and vandalize a car that isn't a Ford. Just because you work for Ford does not mean you have to buy the product, it's like saying I work for Microsoft and I can only install Microsoft software on my PC. Plain stupid.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

UAW = long in the tooth...

Time to bring them up to date with the rest of the modern world.

mrdeeno

I think auto companies should ENCOURAGE people to drive competitor's cars, especially engineers and execs. so instead of blowing smoke up each other's asses about how great their cars are, they can actually compare how good or poor their cars are when measured next to the competition.

They should encourage UAW to do this too. that would probably wake them up...they probably blow the most smoke about how great their "work" is.

remember, keep your friends close but your enemies CLOSER.

narci

This is suppose to help sales?

Maximized

Another reason why the Big 3 should phase out the UAW. The UAW is partially the reason why GM/Ford are in their current financial situation.

F23A4

I believe that Economic Darwinism will ultimately spell the end of the UAW or Ford......or both.

phile

Desperate times call for desperate measures...

M TYPE X

They can't be taking away my right to harass the guy with the KIA!
/BubbaTheUAWguy

Water-S

My buddy's dad works for Ford at the Lima(Ohio) engine plant. They build the 3.0 V-6 for the Ford Ranger and Explorer. They have gay rules like if you don't drive a Union made car you have to park in the back of the lot.(which takes like an extra 10 minutes to walk). I work for Honda and I park by about all makes and models of cars. I don't really care what the guy next to me drives as long as he/she doesn't ding my car or pour crap on it when they get out of their car. theres car I don't like but I don't beat the hell out of them because I don't like them. it's just acting like a little kid IMHO.

Moog-Type-S

Unions = waste

mrdeeno

I figure that if they have to resort to these gay rules in order to "entice" or "encourage" people to buy or drive a certain car, whether it be a ford product or a UAW product, then someone on the inside has gotta realize that there's a problem with the product.

if these people felt "secure" that their products were competitive, then they wouldn't ahve to worry about people driving anything else.

do they know their products can't compete but don't want to admit it? or worse yet do they really think their products are that good?

mrdeeno

stupid execs made stupid contracts.

now they sleep in the bed they made.

Maximized

The contracts are stupid, but they were made at a time when the Big 3 was going strong and the union strong-armed them into signing them. Unions are a joke and aren't necessary anymore. I hope Ford and GM grow a pair and tell the Union to go fuck themselves next year during contract negotiations. Getting rid of the unions is the only way they are going to be able to compete against non-union plants.

West6MT

Such a pathetic thing to hear about, losers vandalize other ppls cars because they are not Fords. The plants only allowing Ford cars etc to have good parking spots is just plain sad,......I almost want them to get sued for unequal treatment or something like that. Would never happen, but it would put a big smile on my face if it did.

subinf

Unions in the auto industry or in general?

mrdeeno

I've worked with non-union contractors on long-term projects. One week I'll see a new face as a help. Next week he's a welder. Next week he's a welding foreman/supervisor. It goes without saying how poor the quality of his work was. Same with electrical, piping, ironworking, etc.

For short term jobs (demo/rebuild), union contractors with experieinced supervisors and experienced workers and are more expensive but do a quality job and get things done quicker (usually charge set price instead of time/materials).


As for the UAW, it's a different animal all-together. They have been undeservedly given so much by the big-3 that they feel entitled to it even for sitting on their asses all day.

Maximized

The biggest joke is the "job bank". I still cannot believe how poor the management was in regards to negotiations towards the UAW. The union(UAW) has too much power over the big 3's own business decisions IMO. It's partially a reason why there is so much politics withing upper management when decisions need to be made swiftly.

Here's some more news:
-GM offers workers up to $140K to leave-
Severance packages available to 113,000 workers; deal also reached with Delphi to avoid labor dispute.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/22/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

subinf

The UAW did get a lot from management during the past 20 years of negotiations. It will be tough to get concessions in the future. Healthcare aside (if fixed could resolve a lot of problems) management is going to have to start buying back the rights they gave away in order to gain any leverage, and thats going to be expensive.

Maximized

Too bad they aren't government employees and management could do what Reagan did to air traffic controllers in the early 80s. The UAW better give concessions or they be out of jobs. I don't think buying back is going happen in a large scale simply because of the financial crisis at GM and Ford. This is a case where it would be nice if the goverment could step in.

subinf

What happened during the 80's?

Yeah I agree that the financial situation of the compaines makes it hard to buy back their rights.

I also agree that the UAW needs to really take a step back and look at their situation. It also doesnt help that Hoffa is rallying all the Teamsters (I know that is separate from UAW but still relates to overall union support and morale) to throw out any arbitration clause and "take back the hammer" to simply strike. Thats probably moving in the wrong direction and dont find that necessary as much anymore.

Maximized

Here is some information:
http://avstop.com/History/MajorEvents/atc.html

Like I said it would be nice IF the government could step in this time. Two of the largest American companies are being manhandled by the union, which isn't right IMHO, but they signed the contracts.

mrdeeno

I guess that's the difference between the UAW and unionized construction outfits. These outfits don't have many employees, but most of them are just foreman and supervisors. They pull the people out of the local unions depending on where the work is but they hold onto the really good workers.

And the other side of it is the customer side...in the construction business, the customer (person who is paying to have something constructed) has the right to choose what company, union or not, to do the work. Therefore the contractor has to consider who they're doing the work for as a customer...and hopefully treat them that way.

But unfortunately, the UAW is FAR from considering GM/Ford as its customers. It's more like a co-op or something with a contract binding GM/Ford to the UAW.

In the auto industry, the UAW

jwong77

This is just sad, how old are these people? 5?

M TYPE X

45, 55

mrdeeno

look who's talking, little boy...YOU'RE 6 YEARS OLD!

Maximized

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...73240555516131



COMMENT

The sad story of Big Steel holds lessons for ailing auto industry


Jerry Ralph Curry | |

Automotive News | 6:00 am, March 27, 2006




In the 1960s, General Motors manufactured 45 to 50 percent of the cars and light trucks sold in the United States. Today GM is fighting to hold on to 26 percent of that market. If that downward spiral continues, GM soon will face bankruptcy, with Ford Motor Co. close behind. Should those two giants go under, the United States will lose a significant portion of its total industrial base.

With so much at stake, what is being done to prevent that vicious body blow to our nation's economy? Perhaps it is time to apply the lessons that should have been learned from the demise of America's steel industry 35 years ago. When Big Steel capitulated to foreign competition without so much as a whimper, steel didn't disappear from the world scene. Only American-made steel disappeared.

During World War II, the steel industries of Europe and Japan were destroyed. After 1945, their steel mills were rebuilt -- largely with American dollars -- using the latest technology. When it was no longer possible to eke out even the smallest of profits against the competition of those American-built foreign steel mills, thousands of American workers lost their jobs.

The United Steelworkers union fiddled while Pittsburgh burned. Until the end, the union haggled over bloated benefits and plush retirement packages. In the short term, the union won its fights. But in the long term, steelworkers lost their jobs and their retirement dreams.

Yet no leader in management, labor or the federal government stood up and shook his fist in the face of America's foreign competition shouting: "Someone will always make steel and sell it at a profit. It might as well be the United States of America!"

One wonders what America's steel industry would look like today if Big Steel's leaders had defiantly taken on the foreign competition and the United Steelworkers had cooperated. Perhaps America's Rust Belt would be a little less rusty.




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Along came the imports
Once the Big 3 -- GM, Ford and Chrysler -- were king. Since there was no significant foreign competition, the American public had to pay whatever the Big 3 asked. "Make it and they'll buy it" was their motto.

Like Robin Hood and his merry men, the Big 3 and the UAW gleefully divided the spoils. Then along came the Germans, Japanese and Koreans -- and now the Chinese. The Big 3 no longer exist since Chrysler is now owned by DaimlerChrysler, a German company.

Just as the United Steelworkers won its fights with Big Steel, the UAW has mostly won its fights with GM and Ford. Just as the United Steelworkers lost its industry, the UAW is in the process of losing its industry. The sad part is that Canadian and American workers are world-class. No workers anywhere do their jobs better.

So how do GM, Ford and the UAW intend to meet such awesome challenges? The plan they have chosen to follow is fatefully similar to the cul-de-sac plan Big Steel followed: Cut costs by closing plants and laying off workers and restructuring the need for executives and salaried workers -- which gives the appearance of restoring profitability -- then declare victory.

As more sales are lost -- which they undoubtedly will be -- cut more muscle to keep up with the loss of more sales and r&d and appear to restore more profits and again declare victory. When even more sales are lost, lay off even more workers, close even more plants and restructure again. Such a strategy of cut-close-restructure makes sense if the object is to maintain profitability by triage.




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Unfair, unfair
In a speech at the National Press Club in November, Ford CEO Bill Ford said that the Japanese government provides unfair economic advantages to its auto companies, which it does. Perhaps that is why GM and Ford hope to get similar subsidies and tax cut relief from Washington. Unfortunately, President Bush isn't buying it.

The president sees that foreign carmakers with nonunionized workers assemble cars in North America using mostly American-made parts, engineered and designed by Americans who are paid American wages, and make lots of money.

Unionized Ford and GM, operating under similar conditions, are hemorrhaging money. That should tell union members that the UAW is part of the problem. And if the union is unwilling to become part of the solution, the workers should kick the UAW out and form a new union, one that really looks out for their long-term interests.




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The courts and the drunks
One unfair obstacle American auto companies have to overcome -- one that could be remedied -- is abusive litigation. About $1,000 is added to the price of every vehicle produced by GM and Ford to cover the cost of potential lawsuits.

Through legislative sleight of hand, plaintiffs' attorneys successfully file lawsuits claiming that cars that meet federal motor vehicle safety standards are not safe. As a result, juries find automakers and dealers negligent for selling unsafe cars that the federal government warrants as safe.

Laws prevent a jury from being told that the driver of a car that killed someone was legally drunk at the time of the accident. Also, the jury is prevented from learning that at the time of the crash, the driver's license had been suspended for a previous drunken driver offense.

Congress must pass laws protecting Americans from that insanity.




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Deal with the workers
In addition to addressing productivity, the need for cutting-edge design and freedom from abusive litigation, Ford and GM must re-examine the very nature of the employment relationship with auto workers and put it on a more realistic basis.

Ford and GM must stop their hopeless appeasement of the UAW leadership and appeal directly to their workers. The rank-and-file auto workers know when union programs are dishonest and obscene and when they hurt decent, honest, hard-working employees and their families.

GM CEO Rick Wagoner wrote in The Wall Street Journal last Dec. 6 that years ago, U.S. automakers and the UAW entered into a social contract that raised America's standard of living by generously increasing wages and benefits. "Today we are maligned for our poor judgment in 'giving away' such benefits 40 years ago," he wrote.

Indeed, it may have seemed like a good idea at the time, but it has become a bargain with the devil. In 1984, the UAW and GM and Ford management entered into an agreement that when union workers lost their jobs through downsizing or plant closings, the workers would continue to collect pay even though they passed their days playing cards in the cafeteria or watching TV.

It is called a "Jobs Bank." The rest of America's workers call it crazy. Like me, they believe that if you don't work, you shouldn't get paid.

The demise of GM and Ford will mean the Katrinization of the greater Detroit area. Like New Orleans, it will become a wasteland.

UAW President Ron Gettelfinger, speaking at the Automotive News World Congress in January, said that the union will hold to its current contract. That is, he sees no reason to eliminate the Jobs Bank at this time.

Ford and GM are talking about waiting until contract negotiations in 2007 before deciding how to handle the Jobs Bank problem. They just don't get it! By 2007, there may not be a Ford, GM or UAW with which to negotiate. The UAW must renegotiate the termination of the Jobs Bank before the end of this year.




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Strong leaders needed
When you add up the costs of abusive lawsuits, health care, lifetime employment union contracts, and lost efficiency and productivity, GM and Ford have to charge their customers more than $2,500 more per car than foreign manufacturers. It's hard for any company to compete with such a handicap.

To be successful, it's going to take strong leaders at the helm of Congress, GM, Ford and the UAW, leaders who recognize that this is round 15 of the world's heavyweight auto manufacturing championship. Nothing can be spared or held back. Plans and strategy don't lead; people lead -- but not just any kind of people.

Big Steel failed to compete successfully because it was unwilling to defend itself and its workers against foreign competition. The requirement in Detroit is leadership of the seasoned, learned and experienced, those who have faced and triumphed over disastrous plans and ideas, disastrous leadership and disaster itself; those who will keep fighting and leading even after profitability and market share are restored; those who subscribe to the military adage, "Lead, follow or get out of the way."




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Face up to the UAW
Finally, there are no strong corporations with weak leaders and no weak corporations with strong leaders. To face down the looming death of America's automakers successfully, GM, Ford and the UAW must develop a "critical mass" of leadership -- not just two or three superstars. Each needs 50 or so determined and fearless men and women who truly understand the corporation, the workers and the nature of the challenges, eager leaders capable of acting and taking responsibility.

It reminds me of an infantry company of American soldiers in World War II that was surrounded by the enemy and grossly outnumbered -- a helpless situation. I know how it felt. I've been there. The men were cowering in their foxholes wanting to surrender.

All of a sudden, a sergeant jumped up and shouted, "What's wrong with you SOBs? You want to live forever? Stand up and shoot." They did, and they won. That's the kind of critical mass leadership it will take to save GM, Ford and the UAW.

Do current management and labor union leaders have enough of a sense of urgency, and are they brave and strong enough to face down the UAW rank and file and tell them the bald truth about how dangerously far out of line wages and benefits have become, and that they will have to be totally realigned this year, not in 2007?

Are those leaders willing and able to work together daily to squeeze the last drop of efficiency and productivity out of every industrial step and advance while achieving styling, quality, excellence, safety, fuel economy and innovation in the process?

Those leaders must be willing and able to risk effectively and successfully all that they and their corporations and labor unions hold dear. There can be no sacrifice too great, no stone too heavy to overturn and no effort too exhausting.

Looking out for the future of America and Detroit's corporations, their stockholders, workers and families must be an all-consuming fire.

subinf

I like this article better than the one you posted in RandP about 6 mo ago.

What is your opinion about the offer GM put out to give 140k to those who left?

I also think management needs to figure out something to do with the healthcare issue. If that is solved they will have a much easier time negotiating with the union over future contract language.

Maximized

I can't remember what I posted in R&P..lol

From the article:

-About $1,000 is added to the price of every vehicle produced by GM and Ford to cover the cost of potential lawsuits.

-When you add up the costs of abusive lawsuits, health care, lifetime employment union contracts, and lost efficiency and productivity, GM and Ford have to charge their customers more than $2,500 more per car than foreign manufacturers

$2,500 Total

WOW!!! Imagine if that $2,500 was put back into the product. Even if they put $1250 into the car and $1250 into profits, imagine how great of a car GM and Ford could build.

subinf

I'll find that article later.

Its insane the amount of money that comes out of each car produced.

I'm probably gonna beat this into the ground but if the healthcare problem was fixed in the US Companies would have a much easier time dealing with the Unions. They gave away their rights at the table and they are going to have to buy them back. I really hope the Union realizes that (they do outside UAW) and makes a worthy effort to create the least amount of turbulence.

Management and the UAW seem so polarized now who knows whats going to happen.

Maximized

The UAW has to know that they are driving the Big 2 into near bankruptcy. Healthcare is a huge problem, but don't count out the Job Bank program. It cost's GM, Ford, and DCX a TON(1 billion +) of money each year. It serves no purpose at all. That money could be invested into build better cars that consumers want.
As for healthcare, I think that something like this will work for both parties:
http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Stor...&siteid=google

The changes should be made to all employees IMO.

subinf

I'm going to really read the healthcare article later (skimmed it) but I think thats a start in the right direction.

Maximized

Or another idea would be to have UAW workers pay for 50% of their healthcare benefits. They are overpaid in the first place IMO.

mrdeeno

Its like parents that give in to spoiled little bratty children.

GM and Ford are the parents, the UAW are the children. the parents, when they were in their prime, spoiled the children when they were younger by giving them almost everything they wanted and never holding back.

Now that the children are grown and the parents are old and not making much money, the bratty children continue to bitch and hound the parents because they are so used to being spoiled and haven't learned to survive on their own....yet the parents are STILL not putting their feet down and telling the children "YOU'RE GROWN UP! GET OUT OF THE HOUSE AND TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF!!!"

Instead it's "Oh, we'll see what little we can put together (like selling GMAC!!) so we can keep you happy...and if you can't find a job, we'll still take care of you (Jobs bank)"

DownUnder

That's a very good analogy, I agree.

Yumcha

Interesting read...

However, nothing earthshattering IMO...unions although, created for the protection of the worker, have often also become the giant ambomination in themselves...and the root of the problems in the respective industry. Prime example: sports (i.e. MLB baseball, NHL players association, and etc.)...

F23A4

That's not a good analogy.....that's quite simply a PERFECT analogy from mrdeeno.

F23A4

Indeed!!