T-R

At least in England...


Sorry if re-post


Scans

dabuda

wow, thats a lot of nice rides...found the page

dabuda

dabuda

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

This is quite impressive. Especially considering that the car was a standard Euro Accord Type-S and not even the Euro-R from Japan. The TSX is even more stiffly sprung than the Euro-R by 10%, so it should, theoretically, outhandle those two cars in the States, too.

fdl

I may have missed it, but did they mention the lap times for the TSX/Accord?

fdl

Its not stiffer than the EUro-R, but its stiffer than the type-s.

We shoudl also be careful using the term outhandle, since this article usesa very disctinct definition of it. The g -forces and cornering speeds would indicate that teh S4 outhandled the accord by a long shot.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

fdl, the time was 1 min 30 sec. It's on the second page in red at the top of the stats.

fdl

woops. passed right over it. Very nice lap time! Only 5 seconds off the s4 which is amazing.

dom

I'm too lazt to read through the article. Do the writers atribute the 5 second lap difference to the S4's superior power or both handling and power?

EDIT: Just noticed the Accord had a quicker lap time than the S60R, WOW.

dabuda

it doesnt say but i'm assuming it's the handling...here's a quote from the driver tha sums the up the S4, for $50k you would expect more?

fdl

It is truely amazing. Could you imagine what the car could do with 40 more hp?


Would it be fair to now put the TSX in the same leugue as the S2000 , with repsect to pure handling? chassis dynamics, steering accuracy, etc?

Could the TSX be the bext handling production car Honda has ever produced??

fdl

actually, the difference between lap times for all cars is very close. Kinda strange actually. 1.20 for teh carrrera gt3, and 1.30 for the accord.

dom

Could a Mazda 6 outhandle the TSX though?

fdl

The mazda 5 got a 1.28 lap time.

dom

Whats a Mazda 5?

All I'm saying is the TSX's performance does'nt look so impressive if a Mazda 6 could do the same if not better.

T-R

That's what a lot of Honda haters say (and it may be true), but I have yet to see official direct comparison of 6 and TSX.

TSX Hokie

After reading the article again, all they are really saying is that the Euro Accord/TSX has the best steering feel of the 3 cars. The skidpad numbers don't give the Honda anything to brag about. Impressive nonetheless.

Looks like the automotive press once again re-affirms that FWD on a lighter platform with a proper suspension setup is as good or better than an overweight AWD car at handling. As long as the TSX avoids having the torque steer problems that plague the TL, I see no reason to wish that it was RWD or AWD.

I still think a RWD sedan or coupe on the S2000 platform, sold as an Acura, would be a beautiful thing. They spent all that money developing the S2000, they might as well use it on a car that sells more than 15k a year.

fdl

Actually teh skidpad numbers for the accord were quite good. About even with the volvo. And the lap time was better.

But i dont understand why the M6 also being a great handling car woudl take anything away from the TSX?

Personally I think the 4 -cyl M6 would out handle the TSX.

dom

It does'nt nessesaraly take anything away but the M6 is a cheaper car so it would that much more impressive.

fdl

yup.

actually i am impressed with pretty much everything Mazda has done in the past couple of years. teh m6,m3, and rx-8 are all great cars for the money.

gilboman

that was a pretty misleading title... wat did the euro accord outhandle?

Lung Fu Mo Shi

I would affirm this.

Yesterday (today was predicted rain) my friend and I played chase on one of the windiest roads I'd been in here in Oregon (from Oxbow Park to E Barlow Trail from Troutdale to Sandy for the locals).

He drives a stock '02? S4 with upgraded rubber. Let's just say I had MUCH higher entry and exit speeds...he could just not keep up unless it was straighter. I was very impressed. I was doing 10mph climbing sharp hairpins (think WRC style but with a bit less gradient) at a 25mph+ entry speed. A little bit of slide through the apex and back on the power.

I had fun.

T-R

It outhandled S60R. Why? Because Accord's lap time was better. And why was it better if S60R has tons more HP? Because Accord (TSX) handles better over all on the track. Don't judge the car just by separate test results (i.e. Gs, slaloms, etc.).

It didn't outhandle S4, but again, if you consider S4's V8 power advantage and legendary quattro, just 5 seconds advantage doesn't sound too impressive for Audi.

Both S4 and S60R are almost twice as expansive as Accord. Shame on S4 and S60R.
Both S4 (V8 vs. I4) and S60R (I5 turbo vs. I4) have almost twice as much HP as Accord. Shame on S4 and S60R.
Both S4 and S60R have AWD while Accord is FWD (the worst like you like to say). Shame on S4 and S60R.

If it's hard to comprehend, I'm sorry for you.

BlackTSXer

haha

xizor

thumbs up for making inexpensive cars, but I was not impressed with a single one at when I test drove them all at mazda rev it up (only the mazdaspeed miata was fun). so i agree, cost effecient, but nothing special.

heyitsme

There's a significant gap between the accord and s4. 5 seconds is a huge difference for one lap, a multiple lap race would be rediculous.

Kinda funny how the tsx and s4 were mentioned in the same sentence in the article so the s4 is getting mentioned here, yet the z4, boxster, e55, and most realistically- the rx8, aren't being mentioned.

As far as beating the s60R, nice job, wish they would exploit this car more by making a performance model on top of the current model. Think coming that close to the rx8 is impressive considering the praise its been getting as a fairly nimble car. Would be interesting to see the tsx vs tl on the track.

majormojo

Yeah, but the article says the S4 had "boffins in its engine". Sounds like it should be going in for some warranty work, not "hooning round a track".

iNteGraz92

i will answer for gilbo
"but, but, but..."

biker

It will be interesting to see what a TSX can do against the new RL at the track.

gilboman

do you know how much 5sec is worth????? good job on outhandling the volvo though. and in your title you said it OUTHANDLED the S4, in here you say b/c the accord had better laptime than than the volvo so it outhandles better, but you can't have it both ways and say its outhandles the S4 as well, you use its much cheaper so its impressive. using your logic, i can post a kia rio outhandles the accord eventhough it'll get slower laptimes but since its so much much more cheaper its impressive and i can say it outhandles the accord.



sorry if you do not know how big of a gap 5 sec is in track time though.

fdl

The 5 second lap time is more a function of the much higher HP of the S4, not neccesarily handlin. The commentary in the article states that the accord out handles the S4 as well, in terms of chassis dynamics and steering feel and precision.

dom

Fair enough Gilbo.

I'm betting you put some summer performace tires on the Accord (TSX) and you knock 2 sec off that time. RSX-S's have seen 2 sec improvements in their lap times by simply switching to summer performance tires.

Before you say you can say that about any car, I'd venture to guess that both the S4 and S60R were already wearing summer performance tires?

fdl

The article does not define "handling" by the lap time.

vitocorleone

Tire width would have something to do with it as well.

TSX: Dunlop 205/55 R16 (prob all-season - Dunlop makes good ones, but they're not summer tires)

S4 & S60R: Action Man 235/40 R18

Obviously they needed to include a BMW in this competition, right gilbo? I mean, a simple accord can't compete with the driving dynamics of a real man's car....

gilboman

a Evo would own all those cars in the comparo anyways, no need to bring out the Bimmer.

edit: focus, alfa 147, renault clio, mini, peugot 206 would suffice already to better the accord in laptimes. no need for the big boy Bimmer. a Z4 would be on par with the S4 already too..no need for a M3 or even 330i with performance package.

STL

I'm very impress with the way the FWD euro Accord faired against these two much more expensive and much more powerful AWD cars. If Honda could get more power in the car -- either by getting that 2.4 to spin up to 8500-9000 rpm and/or adding some hybrid powered eletric motors on the rear wheels -- it would get off the corners quicker and really show up the S4.

I bet Gilbo is just beside himself (although he'd never show it) seeing a FWD car do so well! LOL

T-R

Why are you talking about small coupes or even Z4? Might as well throw in a Corvette. And what does Kia have to do with this? Kia is not the same quality as Accord, while TSX is on pars with mentioned cars. BTW, I simply quoted the magazine for the title of this thread.

The fact is that S4, TSX, and S60R are all 4 door entry luxury sedans.
The fact is that they are all about of equal interior/exterior quality and refinement (I would put TSX over S60 though).
The fact is that S4 is a performance model of A4, S60R is a performance model of S60 while TSX is a base model (just wait for Type-S or whatever).

So this comparison just shows that there is absolutely no justification for such a big price difference.

provench

$GilboGotOwned++

fdl