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sigh... i mean they dont necessarily need to go FI.... but come on... Too bad they wont try to tune their 2.4L to get 260hp.... That is where i give props to Honda....They squeezed the shit out of those 2.0L/2.2L for their performance oriented cars.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 09-20-2019 at 11:56 AM.
There are more reports coming out of Japan about the next-generation Subaru BRZ and Toyota GR86 sports coupe. The twins are finally getting a remodel after being around since 2012 but it may not be what performance fans wanted. There were earlier reports saying the two-door sports cars would get a new 2.4-liter turbocharged engine, the same powerplant from the Ascent and Outback models. But a new report from BestCarWeb in Japan says the second-generation BRZ/GR86 will get the bigger FA24 engine but it will not be turbocharged.
This will be a disappointment for performance fans who were hoping for a turbocharged BRZ/GR86. But the report says the sports coupes will get a naturally aspirated version of the FA24 Subaru Boxer that powers the Ascent and Outback models in the U.S. market.
BestCarWeb says the new models will have 220 PS and 240 Nm from the non-turbo FA24 engine, figures that translate to 217 horsepower and 177 lb-ft, a bump up from the current 205 horsepower and 156 lb-ft of torque. Both models will still get a 6-speed manual gearbox but a new eight-speed automatic could be replacing the current 6-speed transmission.
There is more news about the new sports cars. The coupe will keep the same dimensions as the previous generation but it will not ride on the Toyota New Global Architecture (TNGA) as was previously reported, and it will keep its current platform. The cars will not get the Subaru Global Platform which all other all-wheel-drive Subaru models now have, because a source close to the Japanese automaker says it cannot be converted to rear-drive.
One big influencer of the next generation BRZ-GR86 is Subaru’s goal to reduce traffic accidents and its continued use of EyeSight driver assist technology to be used in all models. The second generation Subaru BRZ model will come with more advanced safety features.
The next generation of 2021Subaru BRZ-Toyota GR86 sport coupes will be identical except for badging and a few exterior trim differences. Subaru and Toyota are expected to sell the last first-generation models this year and the new models will be introduced in Japan next March (2021). But the models could be delayed because of the COVID-19 global pandemic affecting production and parts supply. Stay tuned.
I wonder how well these are selling that they are basically going to just freshen them up after eight years. And what's the point of just half-assing this.
I'm sure the 2.4l will help it, but if it's just going to be a reskinned and engine swapped carry over of the previous model, what's the point? Why would someone buy this over a 4cyl Supra, or pretty much any Mustang or MX-5?
I'm not too surprised, now I wonder if the rumors about a new MR2 were just that.
A turbo 4-cyl 86/BRZ would mop the floor with the 4-cylinder Supra, while likely being much cheaper. For a volume seller, that doesn't matter too much. For a niche seller like a sports car, it could be drastic.
The spirit of the car is affordable, balanced, and fun to drive. Power complicates all three of those aspects, plus the whole cannibalizing sales thing. That said, I was still hoping for a turbo option. If the car is designed to have F/I from the beginning, the rest of the powertrain and chassis tuning will likely be adapted to F/I.
I got annoyed with how poorly the FA20 responds to mods other than F/I, which is expensive obviously. Upgrading cams aren't as easy on boxer engines. Meanwhile, 15 year old K-swaps can make in excess of 250 whp (all-motor) and rev to over 8k. WTF are you doing Toyota/Subaru?
My bet is this new 2.4L with full bolt-ons and E85 won't make more than 230 whp. The 21 lb/ft increase @ crank is nice for N/A, but they increased displacement a lot.
Even with a 2.4L, I'd still take the Miata. It's not like the backseats are all that useable anyways, and the Miata feels a heck of a lot quicker even if it's down on power and displacement.
Even with a 2.4L, I'd still take the Miata. It's not like the backseats are all that useable anyways, and the Miata feels a heck of a lot quicker even if it's down on power and displacement.
Originally Posted by civicdrivr
And has a nicer interior.
x2
I would even say exterior now. I still think the twins look great, and while I have qualms with both how the RF and the soft top look, I think I prefer the ND overall.
If the ND was out when I bought my BRZ (2014) I likely would've went with the Miata. Then I would have lamented that they later gave it a higher revving, more powerful engine later err, and plus the transmission thing.
It's more apparent now that the 86/BRZ was hindered by design compromises to meet a price point. The ND was built with Mazda's gram strategy and it shows. I was shocked when they revealed it and it wasn't much heavier than the original NA.
In fact I would go with an ND now if I didn't have my BRZ, but the cars similar in many ways and I would just like a change at this point.
Most of the international auto shows scheduled in 2020 have been canceled, so carmakers are finding creative and unexpected ways to preview new and upcoming models. Subaru's hotly-anticipated next-generation BRZ eschewed the bright lights and made its debut as a fully camouflaged prototype during a charity event.
Enthusiasts who attended the 2020 Subiefest World Record Attempt and Charity Drive in Costa Mesa, California, were treated to an early preview of the coupe, which is reportedly new from the ground up. While official images have yet to be released, photos of the car are beginning to appear on various social media platforms. Instagram user SubaruDwayne posted an image of a thinly-veiled test mule that confirms the BRZ's basic proportions haven't significantly changed. It still wears a long, low hood and a fast-sloping roof line. It looks like the rear side windows are bigger than the outgoing model's, and we can tell the rear lights are much sharper than before.
For its part, Subaru published a close-up of a similarly-camouflaged car that shows a five-lug, 10-spoke wheel, a brake rotor (which is a superb thing to put in a sports car), and a vent chiseled into the front fender. The bottom part of it is filled in, but the top portion of it looks functional; it likely reduces turbulence in the wheel wells.
No one got a peek under the hood, so precisely what the next BRZ will be powered by remains up in the air. Unverified reports claim power will come from a naturally-aspirated version of the turbocharged, 2.4-liter flat-four that's offered in the Ascent crossover. It will send approximately 220 horsepower to the rear wheels in its most basic state of tune. Rear-wheel drive will come standard, and nothing suggests all-wheel drive will be available.
Subaru pledged to introduce the 2022 BRZ in the fall of 2020, meaning the coupe could make its debut any time between today and December 21, when winter begins. Deliveries will presumably start in the first half of 2021.
What about Toyota?
Toyota has remained surprisingly silent about its version of the car. We know it will again be closely related to the BRZ, so it will arrive as a relatively nimble rear-wheel drive coupe powered by a flat-four engine, but stylists might put more effort into differentiating the two models. We assume it's also scheduled to break cover before the end of 2020. Odds are both cars should have been introduced at the 2020 edition of the Los Angeles Auto Show.
The newly redesigned upcoming Subaru BRZalready leaked after being shown at an event last month, but a new teaser on the car’s website reveals much more of the BRZ’s slick new look, which will be revealed in full on November 18.
Before the Toyota Yaris GR, Mazda 3 Turbo, Hyundai Veloster N and the rest of the current…The new Subaru BRZ was officially confirmed for debut by the end of this year in an announcement last month. Now there’s an official “Future Vehicles” webpage on Subaru’s website for the upcoming model (via GR86.org forums), along with an official reveal date: Wednesday, November 18. There’s also an official new photo of what appears to be a real car, and the second-gen is looking very Porsche-inspired this time around.
I did a quick Photoshop edit and mirrored the image, with a rendered extension to fill in the middle of the two halves. Because it looks like the plate holder corner there in the image, I measured out the amount of car to add by the approximate length of a U.S. license plate using a reference photo of the current BRZ.
Unfortunately, I couldn’t find a useable image of the current BRZ at a similar angle, but what I used was close enough for the one measurement I really needed. I also left off the Subaru badge because I am just a little too lazy for that much effort, though I will also note it’s weird that even Subaru left it out of its own teaser image. There could be hood or bumper detailing I failed to include in the middle margin of the car left out of the original teaser image, but this is likely very close to the real deal at this point.
As much as we are all want to loathe automotive design comparison on this website and in the comments, I will say the common reaction around the virtual office was “Porsche” and I’d argue there’s a nice dash of Honda S2000 in there, too, though I doubt this car will be as romantically long.
Now just think. We’re only two weeks away from a new boxer-engined two-plus sports car. Along with the new VW Golf R and, you know, other stuff, it would seem things are, generally, looking up this week for the future of America.
A new reports says that Subaru has "no plans" to launch its upcoming second-generation BRZ in Europe. If true, that means the 100-unit Final Edition announced earlier this year for the German market is truly the final edition for the Old World.
Furthermore, according to the UK's Autocar, which reported the news, the BRZ "will be a U.S.-only model." That would indicate that even Subaru's home market of Japan would be denied access to the lightweight sports coupe, which seems unlikely. Toyota has been very tight-lipped about its own 86 version, so it's not clear which markets the BRZ's twin would be sold in.
Though the article doesn't say why the BRZ won't be available in Europe, the Toyota 86 and Supra's chief engineer Tetsuya Tada may have given a clue. In a 2019 interview at the Supra's U.S. launch, he revealed that one reason he partnered with BMW was because he wanted the Supra to be a truly global sports car. Given the rapid tightening of safety and emissions regulations in various markets around the world, if Toyota were to have built its own engines and platforms from scratch, development would have taken too long.
"If we had gone that route, the car would not be done, even today [in May 2019]. It wouldn’t be out for at least a few more years. The problem is, you can’t sell a car like I showed you today in 2021."
It looks like that may have been a prescient move. The BRZ is presumed to share a 2.4-liter boxer four with the Ascent and 2020 Outback, neither of which is sold in Europe. It's predicted to have 220 horsepower and retain its rear-wheel-drive layout.
Sadly, it looks as if the Supra will be Toyota's last global sports car model. The 2021 BRZ will be revealed November 18.
Subaru revealed the 2022 BRZ early Wednesday morning with a 228-horsepower, naturally aspirated boxer engine and a curb weight under 2,900 pounds, even with its optional automatic transmission.
On paper, the 2022 BRZ appears to carry on in the spirit of its predecessor. While it does get an additional 23 hp and 28 pound-feet of torque thanks to its new 2.4-liter horizontally opposed engine, just about everything else on the 2022 BRZ's spec sheet appears to pick up right where the 2020 model left off.
The 2022 model grew less than an inch to 167.9" and its wheelbase stretches only 0.2 inches to 101.4". The six-speed manual is still the standard transmission, and it's paired with a limited-slip rear differential; a six-speed automatic with wheel-mounted paddles and auto rev-matching remains available as an option.
Subaru even managed to keep the BRZ's curb weight from doing anything silly. The 2020 model was listed at 2,798 pounds with the manual transmission; that climbs to just 2,815 for 2022. This effectively means you're getting more horsepower and more torque without any appreciable weight penalty, and Subaru didn't even have to resort to a more complex turbocharged engine in order to do it.
"Using design elements from the Subaru Global Platform, the chassis has gained rigidity through a reinforced chassis mounting system, sub-frame architecture and other connection points," Subaru said in its announcement. "Front lateral bending rigidity has been increased by 60 percent for the 2022 model to improve turn-in and response."
The 2022 BRZ's suspension configuration carries over as well (struts in front; double-wishbone in the rear) though Subaru says the chassis received comprehensive revisions. Standard wheels on the Premium model remain 17-inchers, while the Limited ups you to 18s. The tire specs remain the same as well, checking in at 215/45 R17 for the Premium and 215/40 R18 for the Limited.
Subaru didn't elaborate on the tire choices in its press release, but the model shown in photos is wearing a set of Michelin Pilot Sport 4s in the 18-inch spec mentioned here, so we expect those will be standard on the Limited. Subaru did not specifically mention an available performance package for the 2022 BRZ in its launch materials, but if the outgoing model is anything to go on (and it certainly appears to be), we expect it will be offered with the same tire size and compound that comes standard on the Limited.
The exterior design of the 2022 BRZ isn't too wild of a departure from that of the 2020, either, which makes sense considering that the underlying platform and proportions evolved to fit within the same dimensions. The 2022 model's roof even sits less than half an inch lower than the 2020's.
What we get as a result is a fresh take on the existing formula. We see a little 718 in there, especially in the front 3/4 view, and some distant family resemblance to the Lexus RC coupe from the rear. Its cabin appears as though it will retain the fairly barebones styling and appointments of the outgoing BRZ's, which suits us just fine too.
We're still not sure when to expect to hear details of the forthcoming Toyota 86 that will share this updated architecture, but we shouldn't have to wait too long. We're eager to see how it will stack up against the rest of Toyota's new sports car hierarchy.
After seeing it some more elsewhere it has certainly grown on me. Great that it didn't really increase in weight. Miata is still waaay lighter, and my guess is the backseat still sucks though.
Much greater rigidity, so the suspension is likely even softer than the refreshed models. Good iterative improvements.
This thing won't get a turbo, mark my words. If the Supra wasn't available with a turbo 4-cyl, maybe this would.
Speaking of, the Toyota has more of a squared off grille which I think I like better this point
Toyota should just make their 87 into a hatch back or something to differentiate from the 4 cylinder Supra....
In today's car market, there is really no room for 2 affordable sport compact cars in a brand... (except for Porsche, but they are not affordable)
Yah there is at least 10k difference between the base Supra and the 86... but there are so few buyers in that segment... 10k difference or not wont change that fact and i suspect the 4 cylinder Supra could run circles around this car.
On top of that, it has to to compete with BRZ... what a weird situation Toyota puts the 86 in...
Last edited by oonowindoo; 11-18-2020 at 03:58 PM.
I think this and the 4-cylinder Supra are different enough in price and content.
I'm fine with the exterior styling. Nothing to write home about, but not a complete miss either. Sounds like they've successfully kept to the ethos - lightweight, driver-centric. I'm excited to try the new engine. Low torque peak almost guarantees the "torque dip" days are gone, but a high horsepower peak means the car probably has something to give across the rev range.
I really hope it handles similarly to the old one.
I thought the second gen car looked better than the first but it could use a sportier look...sti version maybe?? Check out my sketch below. You can see the full sketch (
I doubt I'll get one of these, but I think it looks great, and I don't mind that there's no turbo. That fits the character of the car, just as it does with the Miata, and I think it has plenty of power and torque given the low weight. If the torque dip has indeed disappeared and they've kept all the agility, it will be a fantastic driver's car. I tested a very early FR-S and absolutely loved it even with the automatic, and I'm pretty sure I'll love this one even more.
And I would take this over a Miata, because while the rear seats might not be terribly useful, when they're folded the cargo bay is quite useful. If I can haul a couple of bass guitars and an amp, I'm good, and I think I could do that with the 86/BRZ. (Not that I have any gigs these days, or even a band, but still...)
As for the Supra, the 86/BRZ has one big advantage--6MT. There have been rumors that the Supra 2.0T would get 6MT, but it hasn't happened, and with the new 86 getting 6MT I bet it won't happen.
The 2023 Subaru BRZ launches the second model year of the sports coupe's second generation. Pricing for it starts at $29,615 after the $1,020 destination fee. There are only two trim levels available: Premium and Limited.
The table below shows the pricing for the 2023 BRZ lineup and compares the cost to the 2022 model year.
Models with the automatic get Subaru's EyeSight safety assistance tech. The features include adaptive cruise control, pre-collision braking, lane departure and sway warning, lead vehicle start alert, and high beam assist.
The Premium grade comes standard with LED headlights for the high and low beams. It rides on 17-inch wheels with a dark gray finish. These models also have a Torsen limited-slip differential.
Inside, a 7.0-inch digital instrument panel and an 8.0-inch infotainment display. Dual-zone climate control is standard. All models have black upholstery with red stitching. Leather covers the steering wheel, gearshift boot, and parking brake boot.
The BRZ Limited adds to the Premium's features. It has 18-inch matte gray wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport 4 tires, heated exterior power mirrors, and two additional speakers for the stereo. The model also gains safety tech like blind-spot detection, lane-keep assist with rear cross-traffic alert, and steering responsive headlights. Models with the automatic gearbox have reverse automatic braking.
The Limited grade has Ultrasuede upholstery with red leather accents. Brin Nuab faux nubuck instrument covers the panel visor and door trim. It also comes standard with dual-mode heated front seats.
Earlier in the week, Subaru announced a new "sharper" BRZ model would be debuting at Subiefest 2023, which just so happens to be today. Those who attended Subiefest were able to see this sharper BRZ before the rest of the world, as Subaru isn't going to reveal the car to the masses until tomorrow, July 24. However, some Subiefest attendees spilled the beans on Reddit and YouTube, and this sharper car is said to be the new 2024 Subaru BRZ tS.
According to Redditor PlatinumElement, this new Subaru BRZ tS won't be limited, like the previous-generation BRZ tS. The last-gen car was limited to 500 units but this one is said to be non-limited model and should be available in any production BRZ paint color. It's also said to get Brembo brakes, with gold calipers, Hitachi dampers, and Subaru's Eyesight driver assistance system with adaptive cruise control. That last bit is interesting, given that the BRZ tS keeps its manual transmission.
Redditor RAMOMASTERsaid the BRZ tS also swaps out the stock aluminum suspension knuckles for cast iron ones, but that seems a bit fishy, as that could add weight.
In a video posted to YouTube, you can see the new Subaru BRZ tS lapping an autocross course at Subiefest and it does seem to have gold brake calipers. However, the video is too blurry and taken from too far away to spot any other visual differences. However, that also means there probably aren't any significant visual differences, such as any big aero changes.
From the sounds of it, the Subaru BRZ tS is going to be "sharper" than the standard car, thanks to upgraded brakes and dampers. It also gets a bit more luxurious for its owners, thanks to Eyesight and adaptive cruise control. Subaru should be officially revealing the new BRZ tomorrow, so we'll be able to see if these Subiefest leaks are accurate.
09-20-2019, 11:53 AM
And it'll still sound like a tractor.
x2
err, and plus the transmission thing.
