03TL-S

I think its a pretty good price considering everything you get out of it. Lets not forget that 1sicklex thinks that no car is worth the price unless it has lexus badging on it

srika

negative.

true, technology-wise the Z has newer stuff, as it should, being 10 years newer. '98 Supra steering wheel doesn't look too bad. but this is subjective.

I wouldn't call the z a "much more advanced car" compared to supra. Sure the supra is 10 years old - but it was ahead of its time when it was introduced. the VQ35DE or whatever engine in the 350 is not exactly revolutionary. hell I wouldn't want my sports car to share engines with trucks, family sedans, and pretty much any other vehicle Nissan can stick the thing into. The supra TT engine was only used in one car, the supra. Although, I won't blanketly say the supra is better than the z. In the hands of the same competent driver, the supra will beat a Z at a moderate sized roadcourse. At a smaller roadcourse, the Z may have an advantage. At something like Laguna Seca or Road America, the supra will have a sizable advantage.

ok anyways... how could I not jump in here... you're killing me man.

charliemike

Let's not forget that the Z is still $15k-20k less than what the Supra TT was back in the day ...

They are totally different cars and both are amazing for what they are ...

zeroday

whos killing who!! srika a z will most certainly outhandle a supra. the supra has 70/30 weight distribution and it's heavy as shit. it's simple physics. i swear people endow the supra with qualities it doesn't have just because of its post f&f2 popularity. you say something negative about it and it's like you just insulted jesus. now a supra tt is much faster than a z so it will make up for it's handling disavantages in lap times but the fact is the z is lighter and has MUCH better weight distribution.

now before you get all bent out of shape ask me which car i would prefer to have; a 350z or a supra tt...

supra tt of course...it's a rare and hot ass car and for only a few thousand bucks it'll make 800hp+...


oh and btw what is wrong with sharing engines...it makes alot of sense...i dont see the problem. the vq is a strong and reliable motor. you can't slam it.

Maximized

I read in Automotive news that the 350z is getting a redesigned interior as the only changes to the next model year 350Z. IMO the car needs another 20-30hp also and some suspension tuning to get rid of the horrible bounce.

zeroday

the bounce was eliminated in the 04 z.

srika

Ok guy, I don't know where you are getting your ridiculous numbers from. Here are the facts:





soooo...........

??????????? yeah - it's MUCH better, by 1 percent. These numbers are taken from the manufacturers. Again I don't know where you got yours. For all I know, you pulled them out of a horse's ass. But, that's ok, I suppose.


Below are the ranges of lateral acceleration (g) figures I have seen for both cars. I am providing the lowest I have seen, to the highest. These numbers indicate handling prowess. I know these are only numbers, but these particular numbers are generally indicative of a car's handling, and can be proven and quantified at a racetrack. As you can see, the 350Z's handling on the high end (.93) is almost as good as the Supra's low end (.94) - on the high end it's clear, Supra has the advantage. Again, generally speaking, these numbers can be used to make quantifiably accurate theoretical conclusions about a car's handling performance at a track. The g ranges below have been taken from various magazines, roadtests, and websites over the years.

Lateral Acceleration (g):

Supra = .94-.98
350Z = .90-.93

The Supra does weigh ~250 lbs more than a Z. However as you know, even a bone-stock Supra runs the quarter mile in 13.5 @ 107. You will rarely encounter a bone stock Supra on the street. Typically, it will be "BPU". That is 400rwhp for about $1000-2000 in mods. The 250 lb difference quickly starts to fade away. Too bad the weight advantage doesn't help the Z beyond 80 mph. Beyond 80 the thing is a dog. Beyond 80 in a Supra, it's the opposite, it FLIES. But I know you know that. It may be 11 year old technology - but guess what, a 12.0 @ 117 in 1998 is the same as a 12.0 @ 117 in 2004. And, I don't think you can exactly call the Supra "dated" in terms of technology. Sure it doesn't have NAVI, BFD. It wasn't around. BFD.

I don't know why you bring up F&F (actually you said "f&f2" - there wasn't even a Supra in the 2nd movie, but anyway). I don't like what F&F "did" for the Supra's image as much as the next guy - it really turned it into a ricer's dream (it already was before, just now even more so). And the Supra used in that movie looks just horrendous... so again not sure where that is coming from. What I am saying has NOTHING to do with that movie. So again,

I am not "endowing" the Supra with any qualities it doesn't have. All you see I have posted here are facts, directly from the manufacturers and the various car magazines and such. You said the Z outhandles a Supra, it doesn't. That's all.

sources:

http://www.mkiv.com/faq/faqtt.html#other13
(above sources compiled directly from Toyota's specifications - Supra is no longer made, otherwise I would have linked to the Toyota site)

Nissan 350Z Specifications
Nissan Motor Corporation

zeroday

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...bution&spell=1

i dunno i just did a search on google (criteria above) and the first couple hits came back with 70/30. i got owned by google i guess . but you HAVE to admit, if the cars had equal power and tires, the lighter car with the better weight distribution is going to handle better. since the supra was so expensive new im guessing it came with high end rubber, unlike the z. the shitty potenzas don't grip at all.

you seem like you're getting all bent out of shape here and i cant figure out why. i had the 'audacity' to say the z handles better than the supra, which i still think it does btw, and you get all "you're killing me here " like its a ferrari or something. ugh. i like the supra but some people just blow that car way outa proportion.

oh and f&f not f&f2...sorry!!

gavriil

A Z will totally outhandle a Supra.

Who cares if the engine is used with trucks, etc.? Actually that's an advantage.

gavriil

I would not even say that. A Supra TT is just slightly faster than a Z. Even in the straight line the Z will keep up. It will be slower but not by much.

gavriil

I did not feel any bounce in the 04 I drove.

gavriil

Only the best time slips for a TT supra will show 13.5. It's more in the very high 13s that we see the average being.

Also, are you posting grip to justify handling?

srika

Nope, not like that at all. I don't think the Supra is like a Ferrari, it's not even close. I have driven a Ferrari and the Supra feels like a Civic DX compared to it. Here's what happened - you pulled numbers out of nowhere, I had to get in. That is all. I said you're killing me because the 350Z is not in the same class as the Supra, performance-wise. If they put two turbos on the Z (which I hear they are going to do, and which will be sweet) - their performance numbers will be comparable. Until then, try the S2000, RX-8, old S4, etc. It's just in a different league. I'm not trying to come off arrogantly here. I am stating facts. I don't think I've fluffed anything up here.

The Supra cost more in its earlier years, but the sticker on my '98 was $39,600. I go to the Nissan dealership and I have seen sticker on a 350Z at $37,500. Not too big a difference there.

It's not typical of me to jump all over something like this. You posted some quite ignorant and uninformed numbers and stats, which is why I had to chime in.

And I don't care you posted F&F2 and not F&F, that is just an afterthought... I'm not one to sweat the small things but come on, 70/30 is ridiculous, as is saying the Supra was "so expensive" compared to a Z, as is saying the 350Z outhandles a Supra... No hard feelings.

srika

ditto for the 350Z's times.

Yes I am posting grip to justify handling. Should I ignore the g figures posted in magazines and tests?

srika

Yes, until about 80 mph. After that, the Supra will walk the Z. And, this is just for a stock Supra TT. Let me ask you this, have you personally raced a Supra TT vs. a 350Z, straight line, on the street?

zeroday

so now i'm ignorant, etc...the only thing i got wrong was f&f2 and the weight ratio of the supra. take whatever you have shoved WAY up your ass and remove it. Also, read Gavrill's responses, you may learn something. i'm done responding to you. i was calmly comparing two cars and you start attacking me and shit. :ghey:

srika

cause & effect... action & reaction.

ignorant is a harsh word. perhaps I could have chosen a better word.

I have read Gavrill's responses, I still don't see where you are getting your information from. I am getting mine from real-world personal experience, the manufacturers, and car magazine road tests. If that makes me an ass, fine.

dabuda

the new models and features are definitely exciting...now if they can only fix the quality issue

heyitsme

Can't say its fair to take the best z time against the slowest supratt time. And for the weight and handling, the new tacoma xrunner is almost definately going to weigh more than a Z, and toyota has already claimed it has outhandled the z so its possible.

srika

well, I was giving a courtesy by using the basic, average 1/4 time for a Supra. And you're right, I remember reading how the new Tacoma or whatever is rated to handle as well as the 350Z. I am presenting my argument with cold, hard, facts. I have seen ZERO evidence that a "Z outhandles a Supra". Hey, the earth is flat. Don't ask me how I know this.

1SICKLEX

Please don't post facts. Many here don't like those. And they don't like when I or others speak and post them. They like living in their own little world.

1SICKLEX

WTF is your point? So was the 300ZX, the RX-7, 3000GT and Stealth. Have you seen the resale value of a Mark IV Supra? Incredible at this point for such an old Japanese car. I think the NSX is the only one better.
A 30k Z is a damn steal. For 37k, what exactly do u get for the 7k? Buy a 30k 350Z buy some real upgraded StopTech brakes for 3k, some I-forged 19" wheels for 4k and you have the same thing and even better parts. And leather too boot.


The 350Z is an incredible car, so no one is bashing it.

srika

Oops, my bad. You'd think I'd know that by now. I guess I haven't really engaged in any such conflicts here, up until this point, to have learned that. There is a first time for everything, right.

goldmemberer

gavriil

A car could have high grip and have terrible handling overall. That's a basic misconception.

gavriil

What makes you think that a Z gets slow after 80? It's not like it's got our stupid auto tranny gear ratios...

No I have not raced any of these cars in a dragrace.

gavriil

Holy shit! 13.1 ?!? I thought the Supra TT was MUCH slower than that in the straight line. I totally apologize. Is that a typical time for a TT though? That thing was faster than a C5 which came out a year afte the TT got discontinued or maybe THE year it got discontinued.

Note the VERY tight ratios on the stick though. 62mph for 2nd which is 100 k/h. So it gets those 0-100 k/h numbers in Europe. Also, look at the 1/4 trap speed at 109 mph which is 2 mph before 4th redlines. I mean these guys "rationed" that tranny for straight line performance.

I have never driven a TT but I stand by my statement about the Z's handling. The Z will outhandle serious cars. It's a very tricky little devil at the track.

Sarlacc

I know its all the driver. But i watched 2 supras beat on a new 350z at autocross. I've actually watched a lot of cars tear the new Z apart. its weight really kills it.

But i still like the z very much, I think its a great car.

srika

This may make me sound like an ass and arrogant, whatever, this is just personal testimony.

I've driven the Supra (I used to have) at a couple of roadcourses (~35 laps @ Gingerman and 7 laps (30 miles) @ Road America) and I can tell you from this first-hand expereince that it handles just as well as the magazines and roadtests say it handles. The numbers definitely match its real-life handling. There was never any circumstance where I thought the handling was terrible or not good, even at low speeds it's fine. And I put 65,000 miles on the car - I mean, I drove it. It may be a misconception with some cars, not this one.

I don't have the Supra anymore, I think I would be more of an ass if I still owned the car and was saying all these things, but they would still be facts.

gavriil

So you owned a Supra (was it a TT by the way?) and naturally know a lot about its handling. Have you driven a Z ? If yes, then maybe the Supra is truly a master in handling, alas 7 years old gone now. I guess it was way ahead of its time.

srika

I've arrived at this conclusion after having driven one. I was cruising at 80 mph on the highway and punched it, it was accelerating, just not too quickly - I was in the optimal gear too. Again, when they put two turbos on this thing, it's gonna be killer. The only real problem I have with it is that I think its underpowered... which the TT's will take care of.

srika

Yes it was a TT. When the Supra came out R&T did a comparo with the Ferrari 512TR and Porsche 911 Turbo 3.6 - they came to the conclusion that it definitely was not as exotic as those two, but performance-wise it was very very close, surprisingly close. Maybe people have forgotten how good a car it was, in all areas. I remember in one of the first big magazine comparo tests, it was the Supra, Viper RT/10, RX-7, NSX, LT4 Vette, and 3000GT VR4, I may be missing one. The Supra was first in all areas except top speed, only because it was limited to 155 mph.

srika

not sure what you mean by this.. these are stats for a US-spec car..

cusdaddy

The Z is quite good at AutoX, but it tricky to drive well due to it's width, understeer and weight. It in the B-stock class (which is a high class to begin-with) and competes in that class very well. Seeing them get killed is all due to driver skill. Last time at AutoX, my best time was only .8 at most behind the best times of both an Evo and 2 STi's. A Z is actually competing and winning at the national level of SCCA competition.

BTW, the Z is not that heavy as some make it out to be. It's not a lightweight, but it's still only ~3150 lbs, which isn't bad at all. In smaller AutoX courses, it does have a disadvantage compared to cars such as the S2000.

cusdaddy

I drive a Z daily, so I know what I'm talking about, and the Z is not weak at 80mph+. This is actually where the Z's at it's strongest. 3rd gear is universally recognized as having the strongest acceleration. The Z is not underpowered either. More power is always good, but it's enough for most people.

BTW, I agree with the statements made by others that a stock Z will beat a stock Supra in a road course. I won't argue this, but the Z is VERY quick in road courses.

Last thing.. The Z has MANY faults and I'd be the first to admit them, but I hate to see hating on the car all the time here.

cusdaddy

The "horrible bounce" as you so describe was eliminated in the 04 model with the adoption of the Euro suspension tuning. And it's not so horrible at all. It's only annoying on certain bad road surfaces, but that's very rare.

srika

ok, I guess acceleration and performance is subjective...

Crazy Bimmer

wow i never knew the stock supra was that fast either! Seems like a bargain at 41k if it was sold right now! Funny how they were "overpriced" when they came out.

I have test drivin the 350z, its really handles well. But i also seen the STI stomp on it at a autox.

Maximized

The bounce is present all the time, you are probably just used to it. Nissan didn't properly tune the suspension IMO. My friend has an S-tune suspension(which supposedly helps cure the bounce) and it's still present. My friends Z06 doesnt ride as stiff, nor does my brothers M3 with ground control coilovers.

charliemike

$42k in 1993 is equivalent to $52.5k today ... That would go directly against an M3.

*shrug*