My impressions of the '05 Chicago Auto Show (and hundreds of pics)
02-21-2005, 09:08 PM
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My impressions of the '05 Chicago Auto Show (and hundreds of pics)
First, I prepared a mini-“website” with pics I took (no video this time, sorry). You can find the URL here:
http://24.221.29.240/2005_Chicago_Auto_Show/index.htm
Many thanks to Siggy for providing hosting services!
I only had four hours for the whole show. Which translates into the least amount of time spent (on my part) for the largest Chicago Auto Show ever (1.3 million sq. feet) and possibly the largest in the world for this year.
They had the domestics, almost exclusively, separated from the imports (depending on your definition of import/domestic). Let’s get to the point here which is my impressions of all the cars I got to see inside and/or out.
I will follow the order of pics you will see in the above mentioned URL.
First car I saw was the Carrera GT. Impressive, but…”just another exotic” and really not as impressive to look, as it’d be to drive (from what I have read).
Next is the Lexus GS. I saw this car for the first time during last year’s Chicago Auto Show. I loved the exterior. This time I was able to sit in it and touch and feel. In brief, the interior is great, but it’s a small step ahead as compard to the previous gen. car and Lexus in general (even when compared to the quality of the Lexus interiors currently). Hence, there is no “wow factor”. I love the instrument design but I believe they are too small. Wood accents, I like, only when used discretely. The more wood used, the less I like the interior, because I translate it as too gaudy. Overall, this interior is very well put together. I’d give it 4.0 stars out of 5 (5 being best). The car feels of the usual Lexus quality, which is at the top three or four, but believe it or not, for me, not the top I…felt. More on this later and this may be a surprise to some (about which car impressed me the most in that department).
Final point about the GS, I am still disappointed at Lexus not using the Avalon engine (or some variation of it) and went to match BMW in the displacement department with that 3.0 liter V6.
Next up, the Lexus Daytona Prototype V8 engine. Look at that beauty! To see 500HP from 4.3 liters (based on a production engine) is something special.
Next up, the Lexus LF-A. When I saw this concept on pics, I hated the front. When I saw it live, I hated the front even more. It looks, simply unimpressive, when compared to the rest of the car. Otherwise this concept has some very interesting surface elements on the sides, the C-pillar area (although there is no B-pillar) and the rear. I love the rear.
As for the interior, I love the center dash design. Then I realized it’s because the principle of the design of the center dash, is the same as that of the 15 year old NSX center dash design. Enough said.
Next the Mercedes Vision R concept (GST). They have been showing this thing as a concept for what now…a decade? Exeggerating, but where is the production car already? I am very optimistic about this segment. The new crossover segement that is. I think 4 years from now, there will be at least 6 production offerings total, from the industry. That “type of vehicle”, was all over the show. Manufacturers are all going towards that direction, that is, of adding an offering ala-GST. And it makes sense. That’s what people want. Something that drives like a sedan, has the room of a minivan and looks like an SUV.
You got to admit the first shot of the front of the GST, looks pretty aggressive. And look at the utility. Three rows of seats and a ton of room inside. Space utilization is at very high levels. One can tell without even getting in there.
The new M-Class was next. I love that new front grill design. Very…how should I put it…very appropriate (for the category), I guess. Rugged, yet elegant. It says, I am tough, but I am classy, as all Mercedes vehicles should be. The interior design looks very promising. They had vehicles on the floor but they had them locked. They would not let us in. That pisses me off! In all fairness though, during past years, more Mercedes cars were…locked. This time only the M-Class was locked (if I remember correctly).
Anyway, the center two rods by the tranny lever flowing from front to back of the armerst area, remind me of the Cayenne. Nice. But I have doubts about the quality of the materials in there. I was disappointed by the SLK (more on this later) and it looks like the same designer designed both interiors and materials used are slightly better than those in the SLK. I may be wrong because I was not let to feel and touch.
The severe angle of the intrumets is…well…too severe for my taste. Combine that with the ala-Audi-TT air vent design and the interior looks too sporty for the segment/category. Why go so overboard? It’s a Mercedes. Just use very high quality materials and something basic. Leave it at that. As class as it is from the outside, it ruins that notion in the inside with…trying too hard.
Next up, the SLR. Wow! Enough said!
Seriously though, this car says (seeing it from the outside), “I am a true exotic!” WAY more impressive than the Carrera GT for example and they cost about the same.
For the marketing people that put the Mercedes show together I say this: I was disappointed to see the car have all its doors, open (except the trunk). It ruins the car’s looks (if that’s possible). Me as a spectator, I can’t see the true lines of the car. And I understand the need for it, but then, have two cars there. One with doors open, to show the goodies inside and one car with all doors closed. I am sure their answer would be “we cant lock two cars of such limited production quantity for shows like these”. Well I am sorry but you have to.
Those venturi tunnels from the rear look impressive. People wont even care why they’re there for. They look futuristic and very impressive. Look at the shot underneath the car. It’s totally flat. No wonder it does a gazillion mph for the top speed with a 5 speed auto. Look at the shot of the rear light. The design is just unique. Simple, yet from far away, it looks unique. Great stuff.
The interior is interesting as well. It is more on the utilitarian side. Very UnMercedes-like, but it makes sense when McLaren is involved in the project, I guess.
Now look at that engine bay. Gauge it as compared to the position of the front axle. It is so behind the front axle, this qualifies as a mid-engine car. What does it matter that the engine is in front of the driver? There is SO MUCH space in front of the engine, I was wondering what did engineers do to…fill the space with. I am sure aerodynamics was on the factors in mind and cooling another.
Finally the fins on the sides are awsome. Mostly because they are of substantial size. I mean BMW’s fins of the M3 on the side could be a lot larger and it’d still make the car look better in my opinion.
The E-class was showing off the 320CDI (which has been out in Europe for two years now). I am pesimistic about the number of units to be sold for this car.
Check out that E-Class' interior. Every time I see and feel it, I wonder what happened to Mercedes (and later I think of BMW having a similar downward spiral related to this matter). It’s not unacceptable for the class. It’s just a step backwards when considering the generation. I mean…dials for the temp control? Ala-Volvo, mind you. Isnt this supposed to be a luxury car? A…German luxury car? Even the fan control has a dial-type of a control. Overall though, the materials used are not representative of: a) the category, b) the character of the vehicle and c) the price of the vehicle.
The SL Class is next. I never liked the front of the SL. It’s looks way too conservative and unimpressive for the price of the car. But the rest of the car is impressive. I sat inside and the sitting position is appropriate for the character. You can sit low in there. The interior is clearly better than that of the E-Class’ but nothing super impressive. I like the design of the the instruments.
Next is the CLS . New offering from Mercedes of course. The front of this car looks nothing like the pics. And this is a rare case where a car looks very nice on pics but not nice live (or at least with respect to one angle). To me at least. Same argument as that for the SL. The front is not as impressive as the rest of the car and does not justify the price of this car.
BUT! The CLS has incredibly sexy lines from the side and the rear. Great job Mercedes did in those areas. The curvy line on the side resembles that of the S-Type from Jaguar. I always loved that element. It makes the car look like a coupe without it being a coupe. What makes the CLS even more impressive is that the roof line follows that body-panel line. A sedan that looks like a coupe. That was Mercedes’s premise with this offering and that’s exactly what it looks like. Very well done.
BUT! With the good comes the bad and once you sit in the rear seat of this car you realize why not all sedans follow that curvy line concept. Unfortunately, it’s worse than that for this car. It’s not just that the headroom is not there. Somehow designers made the rear seat room suffer overall. There was not enough elbow room either. Same for legroom. Overall, very tight quarter in the rear for this pretty long sedan by Mercedes. One can sit a lot more comfortably in the E-Class in the back. So then the question for this offering is: why not buy the CLK? Why pay 20K more for this?
The interior felt like taken from the E class and just added a TON more wood accents and left it there. Overall, disappointing (to me). Price-wise this car will position itself between the E class and the S class. The interior for that price range is almost unacceptable!
Not impressed by this car overall. And that’s a shame for a new car from Mercedes which includes an AMG offering (but arent they all at this point?)
Next the firstly unveiled, S55 . Impressive on paper. The highlight of this car? How fast it is for its weight and girth. Nothing more.
Looks-wise it does not look the 175K it will cost. Not at all. And those wheels. Are they too small for the category, or is it the size of the car that make them look small? They looked like 17s to me.
The SLK is next and I am paying close attention to this car cos it will be on the list of cars I will take seriously before buying the next set of wheels.
I love how the car looks from the rear. As for the front, I am not sure. Yet. Maybe it will grow on me. The AMG car looks a lot better than the base car though (always, in my opinion).
The disappointment came from the quality of the interior. Design-wise it looks great on pics and live. But start touching and feeling and you’ll think you’re in a Toyota or worse. Believe it or now, the interior of the Boxster is now clearly more qualitative than that of the SLK’s! I think this statement is significant for the industry, if true for the majority of people. That says a lot I believe, because when Porsche will beat Mercedes on the interior quality in the same category, we have turned a corner. The SLK’s interior may have been more utilitarian and more usable but not more qualitative. The seating position was great though. Much better than that of the S2000. And that goes for both cars. The SLK might as well have had the best seating position for the segment.
As for the AMG model, I believe it’s now too slow when compared to the difference in price, with the SLK350, because they made the SLK350 car, too fast (if there is such a thing). Or, have the AMG available with a manual if that’s going to help with the acceleration times.
Next I got into a 2005 G35C. Another vehicle at the top of my list for purchase this year.
They talk about changes in the interior this year, but they are very subtle. I have lived with this interior in a G35 sedan for a week in the past, so I know it well. It was a rental in Orlando and I concluded that, although it does not inspire high levels of luxury, it’s mainly due to its design and secondarily on the quality of materials used. The durability of the materials is VERY high. And you get that feeling after you live with the car for a few days. Everything works flawlessly and gives you the sense of “ruggedness”. Which translates into high quality of materials in the end. So, it’s deceiving. The interior is also very usable, which is a good thing for a coupe in my opinion (even if it’s a luxury coupe).
I was disappointed to not see a stick-shift coupe there. Maybe I missed it. Surprisingly the G35 cars did not attract many visitors at all. Good. I hope dealers are willing to give me a good break in a G35C a few months from now.
The Infiniti Mxx is next. I cant agree with those huge rear lights with the designers yet. I don’t think I will ever agree with them. Why so large? The G’s rear lights were large enough as it was, when it came out. The M’s are even larger! Why?
The front of the car looks...almost stunning. Very good job Infiniti did here. The M looks clearly sportier than the GS. No doubt about it.
I sat in the car and the room (front and rear) is par with that of the GS. About the interior now which is the big debate between enthusiasts. I have concluded to this:
The highlight of the M’s interior is its design, which translates into usability in this case. Not that the GS’s is not usable. But the unique design of the M car (which started with the Q) with the center stack in the middle of the dash, in such an angle, REALLY works. It’s like you have your controls “on a platter”. “Here are your controls sir. Pick one”. Very very ergonomic and usable. In addition, it takes you about three seconds to familiarize yourself with them.
Otherwise, overall the quality of the interior in the GS is slightly higher. But not by much. One could call this a wash.
Next are the Smart cars. Get this. ALL their cars were locked! I mean, what do they think they are selling? Ferraris? These are bikes with four wheels for God’s sake. What’s the matter with the marketing people here? Maybe they did not want the American public to try and sit in one of these toy-cars and realize it’d be impossible to live with one? Maybe they thought buyers would be turned off by the super low quality interior? Who knows?
Overall the SMART area gave me the impression of cocky, arrogant, trendy yuppies that are all about a fashion statement. Whatever. That’s no way to sell cars in America. Maybe in NYC and San Fran. Not the country though.
Next up is the Ferrari/Maserati area and I start with the F430. Boy oh boy doesn’t that thing look smoooooth! The exterior flows like…butta! From pics I had my doubts about the size of the front air ducts but they are not ruining the overall design.
The 612 Scaglietti is next and it also has a ton of grafecul sporty elegance. An appropriate continuation of the 456’s premise. One does not realize how long the 612 is. Same goes for the Maserati Quatroporte. You have to see it them person.
The Maserati Coupe and Spyder were shown and the newest version has a significantly better made interior. These cars needed a complete interior overhaul but I guess that would come with the next gen. vehicle. Which is coming up soon. There are severe ergonomic defects with this car’s interior. Still though, they try to keep things up to date with yearly refreshes of these cars. Ala-BMW I guess and soon ala-Lexus.
The Bentley Coupe to me is…an exaggeration, to put it one way. This is not a super luxury GT, it’s a super luxury sedan with two doors chopped off. Sorry. Way too heavy, way too gaudy. Plus I don’t like the design at all. Inside, it’s all wood and that aint good for a car that pretends to be even 10% sporty. And this does by a lot more. Not impressed by this car at all.
And here we are. In the Acura area. First up, the new RL. Looks great from the rear and… kinda strange from the front. Overall, too conservative. They could have taken a little more risk with this car’s exterior design.
Then you sit in. In one word, amazing! The quality of this interior is now, past everyone in the category. And I am talking about BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, Cadillac and yes even Lexus and Audi. It is now a clear win in my book folks. I went right in an Audi A8 and A6 right after the RL and had the opportunity to compare back-to-back. No doubt about it. Acura has the crown in overall quality of materials for the interior of the car. RL-only.
But this RL is not only better made inside, but also in overall craftmanship, it gave me the impression that it is the best put together luxury vehicle there (of course I am excluding the super luxury vehicles i.e. Maybach, etc.). The precision with which the doors open and close is exemplary! By the way, the rear doors open almost to 90 degrees when compared to the closed-door position. Very easy to get in and out of.
There is enough room for two 6 footers siting in-front/behind of each other.
I have no idea how this car drives, but I concluded from this RL that if Acura switched to RWD and added a V8 engine, it’d have the crown in the lucrative luxury sport sedan market and beyond. No doubt about it. They know how to carve on steel/aluminum (and more) these guys. Very well made product! Don’t know how else to put it.
And I have no idea why this was not emphasized in the reviews we have read up to now. Unless I missed it. Everyone was talking about the SHAWD and the lack of torque of the small V6 (for the weight and size of the car). Either I don’t know what I am talking about (which is very possible), or these journalists are so into driving pleasure characteristics and BMW-benchmark-testing, that we have lost perspective of what makes a car, a great car. It’s more than how it drives in my book.
The RDX is next. First let me say that this concept is FAR from being production ready! Nothing to do with the RL concept when we saw it or other Japanese concepts which are 95% ready. Which means that Acura is not sure about the final look of the RDX yet and they really want to test the market’s opinion before finalizing. Which means that they are very careful with this project. They don’t wonna screw things up in this segment. The volume is real high. Makes sense.
The RDX looks GREAT from the rear to me. It looks weired from the front. Very weird. In a negative way. But the key elements of the next generation Acura front design are there and I like them. What they are trying to do is make the current MDX nose look more aggressive. More futuristic. And that makes sense. It’s just some of the angles are way too aggressive to me. I believe that when we see the RDX’s new nose, we’ll know where the next MDX will end up.
Not much interest around the RDX concept by spectators, I must admit.
Next up is the Toyota Avalon. Looks very nice from the outside. Front, rear and side. I was very curious to feel the interior. I sat in it. First let me say this thing has A TON of room inside. Same as the Lexus LS at this point. I got a similar feeling of roominess from the Chrysler 300, the Mercury Montego (which means the Ford 500 would have felt the same way) and maybe one or two I am missing right now. It was one of the roomiest vehicles on display.
The interior was qualitative certainly but nothing super-special. At least not when compared to the hype about this vehicle and its quality overall. Don’t get me wrong, for a non-luxury brand, it is very well made, but nothing extraordinary here. Also, the fact that pretty much everything on the dash and console have this feature of flip-able panels, is not to my liking. Why are you trying to hide the controls Toyota? How is this useful to the driver? In any case, this is a great offering but not super impressive. I hear it isolates you from the road ala-ES330, which is appropriate for the segment.
The FTSX Concept is next and I am only going to say what I said before about his new generation of crossover vehicles. We will see everyone do one! It’s unavoidable. And it will take away from both, SUV and Minivan market share. Even full size sedans. So I don’t know why is Ford spending all this money on the 500/Montego, etc. They should be doing crossovers ala-GST/FTSX/Portico.
The FTSX looks great. And I think what we will see put in production will be very similar.
The Ridgeline is next and I have to say, this thing looks a lot bigger live than it does on photos. This is one tough looking truck up close. It’s saying, “I may be carrying the Honda brand name but I aint playing games. I will be able to take the abuse sir.”
People were getting in and saying, this feels small inside. I sat in the back seats with a 6.2 guy in front of me and I almost had as much room as in the Avalon! What do these truck guys want? A limo for a truck?
The Ridgeline is VERY well made. The vehicle is shouting quality and ruggedness. It’s no toy-truck, it’s to be taken very seriously in the category.
The Civic concept is next. This concept looks great from the rear. But the front just gives me this impression of…something is missing here. Like the CLS from Mercedes. Overall, real nice job. The design of the rear lights looks beautiful. Very sporty and elegant. Great job for the category.
Talking about the Civic, I got into both a current gen. Civic and a Corolla back-to-back and I realized why Toyota is wining the battle in high volume production cars. The civic is supposed to be well made and qualitative, etc., etc., well…the Corolla is on a class of its own folks. Yes, it’s not only better, it a LOT better. The Corollas is a sloppily-made Lexus. The Civic is a well made Cavalier. One way to put it.
I also got in the Evo and WRX. I have read of so many complaints about the Evo, I was expecting a lot worse. Overall the Evo’s interior is less ergonomic than that of the Subaru’s but there is not a huge difference there. The Imprezza is ahead but not by much. One big problem with the Evo, the very high seating position. You sit just like in our CLS. Unacceptable for a car of this character. Heck it’s unacceptable in our car’s case, imagine how bad it really is for the Evo class.
Next is the Nissan Azeal concept. This concept looks worse live than on pics. It also looks a lot more like a concept live than on pics. Which to me, makes it irrelevant. Maybe because I was thinking of looking at the Azeal to see the next Sentra. I was expecting a lot more realistic lines and flow. The strength of this concept is not its front nor rear. It’s the flow of the roofline, hence its strength is its side view. Also it’s a lot smaller than you’d think. It’s Civic coupe size. Finally the design of the back door (trunk) is not to my liking and it reminds me of a worse interpretation of that of the G6’s rear. I don’t know, but I was not very impressed by this concept.
Unlike the Azeal, I loved the Mitsubishi Eclipse. This thing looks great! It looks better than the concept they had there a year ago. Very good job by Mitsu. They would not let us touch the car, but I was so close and felt able to take a general guess about the car’s overall quality. The car gave me this impression of low quality build, was the verdict. I don’t know how, it did not inspire quality somehow.
What is up with the rear wheel/fender gap? Mitsu made the same mistake with the 2nd generation DSM cars. Cant they do something about that? You don’t necessarily have to lower the car for the right effect. Cant they lower the flow of the fender?
What remains to be seen is how will this FWD drivetrain will react to the pretty substantial torque of the 3.8 liter V6.
Nex is the Advanced Lightweight Concept by Jaguar. I believe this is what the next generation Jaguars will loook like. And overall, I believe, it looks great! Note the switch to center exhaust tips. Many manufacturers have been going that way, with possibly Porsche as one of the pioneers, if not the pioneer. What I like best about this car, is Jaguar’s tangible effort to take weight off of all their cars. I think that’s a great undertaking and I am surprised by the rest in the category not doing it. All vehicles are getting to be way too heavy. We need to also start trying to take weight off of the vehicles, rather than only trying to make more powerful engines. I know many talk about it, but only Jaguar has brought results with the current generation XJ car which flies with a relatively small (for the category) V8 engine. Kudos to them and shame on Audi which has been talking about aluminum spaceframe construction for years now and supposedly doing it with ZERO results. They should all be put on probation just for that. How do they dare advertise it so much for so long anyway? It reminds of the “Northstar System” vaporware by Cadillac. Lightweight construction yet the A8 is heavier than my boat. Bitch mode off.
The Lincoln Zephyr is next. The Zephyr is huge and it looks great in my opinion. That grill looks great. Very clean design. Very well done Ford!
The Mercury Milan is next and the first impression I get is that this car is not as large as I thought it’d be. This car would do great in Europe in my opinion. It also looks great to me. Looking at the front I realized and concluded that this is what the Accord should have looked like if Honda dared to put a nice looking grill in between those lights. Unfortunately, we were not able to get in the car and touch and feel.
Next is the GR1 concept. This car looks like an experimental airplane prototype due to the way it’s built on the outside. No paint, just plain shiny alloy. It looks more impressive live than on the photos. It looks as impressive as when they unveiled the GT concept initially. Look how flat the bottom of the car is. I wonder if the production car will be as flat as the concept. Ford should build this one too and I think they will. Keeping the HP at the concept levels should give the Enzo a good run.
There were a bunch of Mustangs next to the GR1 but I took pics of the 281 Saleen Mustang because I thought it looked well done. Though I got inside a couple of stangs to get a feeling of the interior and the quality of the car. In brief, I was disappointed. The way the door close and how much they weigh, gave me the impression of how the doors in my 1996 Talon AWD did. Unacceptable for a 2005 car, no matter what the category. The interior is also nothing impressive. The design is OK because it’s relevant to the theme, but it’s nothing to write home about, as far as quality goes.
Next is the Subaru Tribeca. I was impressed from this vehicle in the end and I have concluded that this will make a ton of money for Subaru. It looks a lot better up close. The controversial nose is not as pronounced as it looks on the pics. In the end, I feel that Zapatinas did a great job in designing a unique offering for the segment. Although it looks like he copied several other manufacturers here and there, you don’t see that when you see the vehicle because it is unique as a package. That’s the feeling I got when I stood back and looked at it with an unbiased eye.
Also, although they did not let us get inside the vehicle, I LOVED the design of this interior. IT IS THE BEST designed interior in the segment, if not in general (regardless of category). I am not sure of the quality of the interior, but it looks great and very ergonomic (I was able to get VERY close to the interior, just not close enough to touch).
Next is the Saturn Sky. Boy oh boy! This thing looks great on pics, but looks amazing live! I was VERY impressed by this vehicle and I am 100% certain that Saturn is not only saved by this car and the next car I will write about, but it will actually thrive in the future if things continue like this. Saturn will have a better turnaround than Cadillac has folks is my prediction.
The Sky is a great offering even if the price was 30K in my opinion. At 19K it will sell like hotcakes. The next generation Miata is truly in trouble, no doubt about it. The Sky looks like a very serious contender for the segment. In my opinion it’s more beautiful and impressive than the Boxster, the S2000 and even the SLK! Have I praised it enough already? Seriously. I was blown away by this vehicle and I saw it on pics several times before I saw it live!
I felt that Opel designed this vehicle when I saw it live. I see many lines that one would expect from European offerings. But then again, what does it matter. It’s available here and I hope we see some serious HP from this thing in the future because it has the looks to…take it.
The interior is production ready as you can see. We were not able to touch but it gives me the sense of at least average quality which is better than any Saturn today.
Next is the Saturn Aura. Man Saturn is on a roll! For anyone that has seen the Opel Astra, you get the idea that it was stretched and “sedanized” for the American market. I am not sure if the platform is the same, but I would not be surprised if it were. This thing also looks great, front and rear. It has nothing to do with where Saturn is today and where it was in the past. This is a new era for Saturn and it looks VERY promising folks. I hope Lutz fixes them soon and I hope we see similar results from Buick next.
Next is the Cobalt. I got into the SS coupe first. Nope. They did not even try with the interior. Just a step up from the Cavalier. Unacceptable. I mean there is not even an armrest in there. Then I got into the sedan and I have to admit, it felt better (still not good enough though). The sedan was slightly better optioned, I could tell. And that’s what probably made the difference, but still. This is no import competitor as far as quality.
I do think the coupe looks good from the outside. Pretty aggressive. I just hope they drive well because with the new Civic coming, things are getting tight for Cobalt and it was just launched.
Next is the Corvette. I have driven this thing before, let alone sat in it. Not much to say here, we all have read about it.
But I have not driven, let alone sat in, a Z06 as you I am sure can guess. This car is impressive! It’s clearly not a C6 from the outside. And that’s a good thing if they are gonna up the price from what I hear. It is much wider and that makes a big difference. The exterior changes as compared to the base car, are subtle but they make enough of a difference to notice right away that this is no regular Vette. I hear this car will do 11.7 on the ¼ which means it will run with the GT. Impressive to say the least.
Next to the Z06 GM displayed the GTS race car. Man is that thing WIDE! Boy oh boy. You cant tell from the photos but this thing is real wide especially from the rear. Not much to say here, the team has been flawless for way too many years in a row now and they deserve every praise. GM had the guts to somewhat base the Z06 production engine on the GTS race car and that makes a difference with marketing the car and it helps with the image. I think they did it right this time. I hope we see more in the future.
Next is the Impala. With the new nose. It’s not as controversial as in the photos initially. It grows on you. Quickly. The car looks a lot more mature this way. I think it’s a step in the right direction. Unfortunately because these are not production cars, I was not able to get in and see what they did with the interior.
The HHR is next and I am thinking…I am not sure about this vehicle. I mean to have introduced this a year after the PT Cruiser came out, fine. But now, I don’t know. I don’t think this will sell very well for GM. I also hear that it’s really tiny inside. Space utilization is at low levels which is a shame for this vehicle. It does look better than the PT Cruiser in my opinion and it’s done well, but not as impressive as it would have been 2 years ago.
Next is the Buick Lucerne. Not as impressive as it should have been in my opinion. Yes Buick is supposed to be subtle, but still. We need some more wow factor here to tell the market we’re changing, someone should have told the designers in my opinion. Maybe that wow factor is all left to the future roadster hopefully coming soon. We’ll see.
If the Lucerne’s interior is anything close to the La Cross’ interior, I can say that it has been improved, but not as much as it should have been. It’s almost like what we saw from the STS. Clear leap ahead for Cadillac, but not where it should have been which is beat the best, if not be par with them. They need to do a lot better at Buick if they’re gonna impress new affluent buyers folks.
An unexpected positive surprise came next. I have driven the Volvo S60 and S80 as rentals so I know them well and I have sat in an S40 several times, so I almost passed by their area without even looking. But then I saw the XC90 V8! Wow! A few subtle changes to the right spots and this thing looks like a new vehicle. A ton better than the base car! The rear exhaust tips, although seen in the X5, they look great on this XC90.
They must be really proud to have a V8 available in this vehicle because as you see they had it displayed right in front of the car. It’s made by Yamaha. I hope it performs well.
Next you see a few pics of the exotics displayed there. I mean not much to say about the Lambo cars. Nothing new here. But I have to say that it really annoys me when every year I see the Elise next to cars like Ferraris and Lambos. How is the Elise an exotic exactly? Only Lotus knows and their marketing people. Shameful arrogance, in my opinion.
I was positively surprised to see the Ferrari F1 car displayed there. Wow!
Next is the Hyundai Portico Concept. Again, this new crossover vehicle segment is bound to make money to whoever offers this product to market first. Mercedes looks to be ahead with the GST but others may be close also. Kudos to Hyundai though for being in the game. They are on fire over at Hyundai as we all know and it shows. Good for them.
The Portico Concept looks pretty good in my opinion. It has an aggressive front and an elegant rear (which does need some work though). I hope they build it and they do a good job with quality. They also need new larger engines but I hear they’re on the way.
Next I stopped at the Cadillac area which had the V cars displayed. The CTSV is first as you see. Nothing super new here. I was pissed at Caddy for not letting us in their V cars. Unacceptable. I have driven both the CTS and STS base cars so I have been in them but never in a V car, so I was a little curious.
The STSV looks good, but what I liked the most is that now with two V offerings and one to be unveiled in a few weeks in New York (XLRV), it feels like Cadillac has a high performance family which is pretty homogenous. Design-wise at least. And that’s a great thing for this brand name which had nothing to show for itself just a couple of years ago. Obviously they are very busy over there, but they still have a TON of work to do. The interior of the CTS needs a complete overhaul and that of the STS needs a serious upgrade. Yesterday! To this day, I still think 440HP is not enough for the STSV. Just because of what the competition is doing. But it was evident that Cadillac was VERY proud of their new supercharged engine from the way they displayed it, to the way they talked about it through their presenters. Which by the way, was quite the commotion. It was obvious that they spent a ton of money for the show. And they deserve it, but they are not there yet. They cant look at Mercedes and BMW in the eye yet in my opinion and Lexus is in full force now. Watch out from Lexus, is what I’d tell Lutz. They are a far bigger threat than the Germans currently. They got more money than anyone and they have the people (a recent mgt shuffle at the top shows that Toyota/Lexus is not satisfied at being number one in the profitability arena – they smell blood with the Germans).
A couple of brands I looked closely but did not take any pics are Audi and Porsche.
Audi cars just never inspired me. I respect them but they are too subtle in my opinion. The exception possibly is the new A6 and A4 cars. I saw the new A4 two months ago in Munich where it was displayed. And loved it. Audi’s interiors continue to be top notch but I don’t see improvement with new generation offerings and that’s scary and disappointing. That’s where the competition has a chance to catch up (a better example is BMW). The constant leaps forward from brands like Acura have changed the field in my opinion. I sat in the A8 and I felt some totally unacceptable for the brand name and category materials in some areas. The Lexus LS may not have the best interior in the world but it’s consistent at least. Consistency has been an issue with all German luxury manufacturers during the past few years in my opinion.
The TT feels old at this point. The way the door closed reminded me of…another era, so to speak. I sat in the 3.2 cabrio. Looking at that engine, it’s almost completely hanging over the front axle! I mean, come on Audi!
Porsche as usual has their cars locked except the new Boxster and Cayenne. Like I wrote above, I was impressed by the new Boxster interior. It’s not Acura-like, but I was expecting far worse. The ergonomics, as always, lack. Germans will never get it when it comes to ergonomics when compared with the best.
The two trunks offered in the Boxster is a cool feature. It was pronounced during the show because they had both open. A ton of cheap plastic in the trunk made me feel unlike what I felt sitting inside the car. A lot of compartments felt loose and unacceptable for the money one has to come up with to pay for a Boxster.
Overall I felt that the new look of both the Boxster and the 911 is a step forward. Both cars look a lot cleaner now.
That’s it for my impressions of the cars at the show. Overall, I felt that this was the best Chicago Auto Show I have been and kudos to the organizers. Looking forward to next year.
http://24.221.29.240/2005_Chicago_Auto_Show/index.htm
Many thanks to Siggy for providing hosting services!
I only had four hours for the whole show. Which translates into the least amount of time spent (on my part) for the largest Chicago Auto Show ever (1.3 million sq. feet) and possibly the largest in the world for this year.
They had the domestics, almost exclusively, separated from the imports (depending on your definition of import/domestic). Let’s get to the point here which is my impressions of all the cars I got to see inside and/or out.
I will follow the order of pics you will see in the above mentioned URL.
First car I saw was the Carrera GT. Impressive, but…”just another exotic” and really not as impressive to look, as it’d be to drive (from what I have read).
Next is the Lexus GS. I saw this car for the first time during last year’s Chicago Auto Show. I loved the exterior. This time I was able to sit in it and touch and feel. In brief, the interior is great, but it’s a small step ahead as compard to the previous gen. car and Lexus in general (even when compared to the quality of the Lexus interiors currently). Hence, there is no “wow factor”. I love the instrument design but I believe they are too small. Wood accents, I like, only when used discretely. The more wood used, the less I like the interior, because I translate it as too gaudy. Overall, this interior is very well put together. I’d give it 4.0 stars out of 5 (5 being best). The car feels of the usual Lexus quality, which is at the top three or four, but believe it or not, for me, not the top I…felt. More on this later and this may be a surprise to some (about which car impressed me the most in that department).
Final point about the GS, I am still disappointed at Lexus not using the Avalon engine (or some variation of it) and went to match BMW in the displacement department with that 3.0 liter V6.
Next up, the Lexus Daytona Prototype V8 engine. Look at that beauty! To see 500HP from 4.3 liters (based on a production engine) is something special.
Next up, the Lexus LF-A. When I saw this concept on pics, I hated the front. When I saw it live, I hated the front even more. It looks, simply unimpressive, when compared to the rest of the car. Otherwise this concept has some very interesting surface elements on the sides, the C-pillar area (although there is no B-pillar) and the rear. I love the rear.
As for the interior, I love the center dash design. Then I realized it’s because the principle of the design of the center dash, is the same as that of the 15 year old NSX center dash design. Enough said.
Next the Mercedes Vision R concept (GST). They have been showing this thing as a concept for what now…a decade? Exeggerating, but where is the production car already? I am very optimistic about this segment. The new crossover segement that is. I think 4 years from now, there will be at least 6 production offerings total, from the industry. That “type of vehicle”, was all over the show. Manufacturers are all going towards that direction, that is, of adding an offering ala-GST. And it makes sense. That’s what people want. Something that drives like a sedan, has the room of a minivan and looks like an SUV.
You got to admit the first shot of the front of the GST, looks pretty aggressive. And look at the utility. Three rows of seats and a ton of room inside. Space utilization is at very high levels. One can tell without even getting in there.
The new M-Class was next. I love that new front grill design. Very…how should I put it…very appropriate (for the category), I guess. Rugged, yet elegant. It says, I am tough, but I am classy, as all Mercedes vehicles should be. The interior design looks very promising. They had vehicles on the floor but they had them locked. They would not let us in. That pisses me off! In all fairness though, during past years, more Mercedes cars were…locked. This time only the M-Class was locked (if I remember correctly).
Anyway, the center two rods by the tranny lever flowing from front to back of the armerst area, remind me of the Cayenne. Nice. But I have doubts about the quality of the materials in there. I was disappointed by the SLK (more on this later) and it looks like the same designer designed both interiors and materials used are slightly better than those in the SLK. I may be wrong because I was not let to feel and touch.
The severe angle of the intrumets is…well…too severe for my taste. Combine that with the ala-Audi-TT air vent design and the interior looks too sporty for the segment/category. Why go so overboard? It’s a Mercedes. Just use very high quality materials and something basic. Leave it at that. As class as it is from the outside, it ruins that notion in the inside with…trying too hard.
Next up, the SLR. Wow! Enough said!
Seriously though, this car says (seeing it from the outside), “I am a true exotic!” WAY more impressive than the Carrera GT for example and they cost about the same.
For the marketing people that put the Mercedes show together I say this: I was disappointed to see the car have all its doors, open (except the trunk). It ruins the car’s looks (if that’s possible). Me as a spectator, I can’t see the true lines of the car. And I understand the need for it, but then, have two cars there. One with doors open, to show the goodies inside and one car with all doors closed. I am sure their answer would be “we cant lock two cars of such limited production quantity for shows like these”. Well I am sorry but you have to.
Those venturi tunnels from the rear look impressive. People wont even care why they’re there for. They look futuristic and very impressive. Look at the shot underneath the car. It’s totally flat. No wonder it does a gazillion mph for the top speed with a 5 speed auto. Look at the shot of the rear light. The design is just unique. Simple, yet from far away, it looks unique. Great stuff.
The interior is interesting as well. It is more on the utilitarian side. Very UnMercedes-like, but it makes sense when McLaren is involved in the project, I guess.
Now look at that engine bay. Gauge it as compared to the position of the front axle. It is so behind the front axle, this qualifies as a mid-engine car. What does it matter that the engine is in front of the driver? There is SO MUCH space in front of the engine, I was wondering what did engineers do to…fill the space with. I am sure aerodynamics was on the factors in mind and cooling another.
Finally the fins on the sides are awsome. Mostly because they are of substantial size. I mean BMW’s fins of the M3 on the side could be a lot larger and it’d still make the car look better in my opinion.
The E-class was showing off the 320CDI (which has been out in Europe for two years now). I am pesimistic about the number of units to be sold for this car.
Check out that E-Class' interior. Every time I see and feel it, I wonder what happened to Mercedes (and later I think of BMW having a similar downward spiral related to this matter). It’s not unacceptable for the class. It’s just a step backwards when considering the generation. I mean…dials for the temp control? Ala-Volvo, mind you. Isnt this supposed to be a luxury car? A…German luxury car? Even the fan control has a dial-type of a control. Overall though, the materials used are not representative of: a) the category, b) the character of the vehicle and c) the price of the vehicle.
The SL Class is next. I never liked the front of the SL. It’s looks way too conservative and unimpressive for the price of the car. But the rest of the car is impressive. I sat inside and the sitting position is appropriate for the character. You can sit low in there. The interior is clearly better than that of the E-Class’ but nothing super impressive. I like the design of the the instruments.
Next is the CLS . New offering from Mercedes of course. The front of this car looks nothing like the pics. And this is a rare case where a car looks very nice on pics but not nice live (or at least with respect to one angle). To me at least. Same argument as that for the SL. The front is not as impressive as the rest of the car and does not justify the price of this car.
BUT! The CLS has incredibly sexy lines from the side and the rear. Great job Mercedes did in those areas. The curvy line on the side resembles that of the S-Type from Jaguar. I always loved that element. It makes the car look like a coupe without it being a coupe. What makes the CLS even more impressive is that the roof line follows that body-panel line. A sedan that looks like a coupe. That was Mercedes’s premise with this offering and that’s exactly what it looks like. Very well done.
BUT! With the good comes the bad and once you sit in the rear seat of this car you realize why not all sedans follow that curvy line concept. Unfortunately, it’s worse than that for this car. It’s not just that the headroom is not there. Somehow designers made the rear seat room suffer overall. There was not enough elbow room either. Same for legroom. Overall, very tight quarter in the rear for this pretty long sedan by Mercedes. One can sit a lot more comfortably in the E-Class in the back. So then the question for this offering is: why not buy the CLK? Why pay 20K more for this?
The interior felt like taken from the E class and just added a TON more wood accents and left it there. Overall, disappointing (to me). Price-wise this car will position itself between the E class and the S class. The interior for that price range is almost unacceptable!
Not impressed by this car overall. And that’s a shame for a new car from Mercedes which includes an AMG offering (but arent they all at this point?)
Next the firstly unveiled, S55 . Impressive on paper. The highlight of this car? How fast it is for its weight and girth. Nothing more.
Looks-wise it does not look the 175K it will cost. Not at all. And those wheels. Are they too small for the category, or is it the size of the car that make them look small? They looked like 17s to me.
The SLK is next and I am paying close attention to this car cos it will be on the list of cars I will take seriously before buying the next set of wheels.
I love how the car looks from the rear. As for the front, I am not sure. Yet. Maybe it will grow on me. The AMG car looks a lot better than the base car though (always, in my opinion).
The disappointment came from the quality of the interior. Design-wise it looks great on pics and live. But start touching and feeling and you’ll think you’re in a Toyota or worse. Believe it or now, the interior of the Boxster is now clearly more qualitative than that of the SLK’s! I think this statement is significant for the industry, if true for the majority of people. That says a lot I believe, because when Porsche will beat Mercedes on the interior quality in the same category, we have turned a corner. The SLK’s interior may have been more utilitarian and more usable but not more qualitative. The seating position was great though. Much better than that of the S2000. And that goes for both cars. The SLK might as well have had the best seating position for the segment.
As for the AMG model, I believe it’s now too slow when compared to the difference in price, with the SLK350, because they made the SLK350 car, too fast (if there is such a thing). Or, have the AMG available with a manual if that’s going to help with the acceleration times.
Next I got into a 2005 G35C. Another vehicle at the top of my list for purchase this year.
They talk about changes in the interior this year, but they are very subtle. I have lived with this interior in a G35 sedan for a week in the past, so I know it well. It was a rental in Orlando and I concluded that, although it does not inspire high levels of luxury, it’s mainly due to its design and secondarily on the quality of materials used. The durability of the materials is VERY high. And you get that feeling after you live with the car for a few days. Everything works flawlessly and gives you the sense of “ruggedness”. Which translates into high quality of materials in the end. So, it’s deceiving. The interior is also very usable, which is a good thing for a coupe in my opinion (even if it’s a luxury coupe).
I was disappointed to not see a stick-shift coupe there. Maybe I missed it. Surprisingly the G35 cars did not attract many visitors at all. Good. I hope dealers are willing to give me a good break in a G35C a few months from now.
The Infiniti Mxx is next. I cant agree with those huge rear lights with the designers yet. I don’t think I will ever agree with them. Why so large? The G’s rear lights were large enough as it was, when it came out. The M’s are even larger! Why?
The front of the car looks...almost stunning. Very good job Infiniti did here. The M looks clearly sportier than the GS. No doubt about it.
I sat in the car and the room (front and rear) is par with that of the GS. About the interior now which is the big debate between enthusiasts. I have concluded to this:
The highlight of the M’s interior is its design, which translates into usability in this case. Not that the GS’s is not usable. But the unique design of the M car (which started with the Q) with the center stack in the middle of the dash, in such an angle, REALLY works. It’s like you have your controls “on a platter”. “Here are your controls sir. Pick one”. Very very ergonomic and usable. In addition, it takes you about three seconds to familiarize yourself with them.
Otherwise, overall the quality of the interior in the GS is slightly higher. But not by much. One could call this a wash.
Next are the Smart cars. Get this. ALL their cars were locked! I mean, what do they think they are selling? Ferraris? These are bikes with four wheels for God’s sake. What’s the matter with the marketing people here? Maybe they did not want the American public to try and sit in one of these toy-cars and realize it’d be impossible to live with one? Maybe they thought buyers would be turned off by the super low quality interior? Who knows?
Overall the SMART area gave me the impression of cocky, arrogant, trendy yuppies that are all about a fashion statement. Whatever. That’s no way to sell cars in America. Maybe in NYC and San Fran. Not the country though.
Next up is the Ferrari/Maserati area and I start with the F430. Boy oh boy doesn’t that thing look smoooooth! The exterior flows like…butta! From pics I had my doubts about the size of the front air ducts but they are not ruining the overall design.
The 612 Scaglietti is next and it also has a ton of grafecul sporty elegance. An appropriate continuation of the 456’s premise. One does not realize how long the 612 is. Same goes for the Maserati Quatroporte. You have to see it them person.
The Maserati Coupe and Spyder were shown and the newest version has a significantly better made interior. These cars needed a complete interior overhaul but I guess that would come with the next gen. vehicle. Which is coming up soon. There are severe ergonomic defects with this car’s interior. Still though, they try to keep things up to date with yearly refreshes of these cars. Ala-BMW I guess and soon ala-Lexus.
The Bentley Coupe to me is…an exaggeration, to put it one way. This is not a super luxury GT, it’s a super luxury sedan with two doors chopped off. Sorry. Way too heavy, way too gaudy. Plus I don’t like the design at all. Inside, it’s all wood and that aint good for a car that pretends to be even 10% sporty. And this does by a lot more. Not impressed by this car at all.
And here we are. In the Acura area. First up, the new RL. Looks great from the rear and… kinda strange from the front. Overall, too conservative. They could have taken a little more risk with this car’s exterior design.
Then you sit in. In one word, amazing! The quality of this interior is now, past everyone in the category. And I am talking about BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, Cadillac and yes even Lexus and Audi. It is now a clear win in my book folks. I went right in an Audi A8 and A6 right after the RL and had the opportunity to compare back-to-back. No doubt about it. Acura has the crown in overall quality of materials for the interior of the car. RL-only.
But this RL is not only better made inside, but also in overall craftmanship, it gave me the impression that it is the best put together luxury vehicle there (of course I am excluding the super luxury vehicles i.e. Maybach, etc.). The precision with which the doors open and close is exemplary! By the way, the rear doors open almost to 90 degrees when compared to the closed-door position. Very easy to get in and out of.
There is enough room for two 6 footers siting in-front/behind of each other.
I have no idea how this car drives, but I concluded from this RL that if Acura switched to RWD and added a V8 engine, it’d have the crown in the lucrative luxury sport sedan market and beyond. No doubt about it. They know how to carve on steel/aluminum (and more) these guys. Very well made product! Don’t know how else to put it.
And I have no idea why this was not emphasized in the reviews we have read up to now. Unless I missed it. Everyone was talking about the SHAWD and the lack of torque of the small V6 (for the weight and size of the car). Either I don’t know what I am talking about (which is very possible), or these journalists are so into driving pleasure characteristics and BMW-benchmark-testing, that we have lost perspective of what makes a car, a great car. It’s more than how it drives in my book.
The RDX is next. First let me say that this concept is FAR from being production ready! Nothing to do with the RL concept when we saw it or other Japanese concepts which are 95% ready. Which means that Acura is not sure about the final look of the RDX yet and they really want to test the market’s opinion before finalizing. Which means that they are very careful with this project. They don’t wonna screw things up in this segment. The volume is real high. Makes sense.
The RDX looks GREAT from the rear to me. It looks weired from the front. Very weird. In a negative way. But the key elements of the next generation Acura front design are there and I like them. What they are trying to do is make the current MDX nose look more aggressive. More futuristic. And that makes sense. It’s just some of the angles are way too aggressive to me. I believe that when we see the RDX’s new nose, we’ll know where the next MDX will end up.
Not much interest around the RDX concept by spectators, I must admit.
Next up is the Toyota Avalon. Looks very nice from the outside. Front, rear and side. I was very curious to feel the interior. I sat in it. First let me say this thing has A TON of room inside. Same as the Lexus LS at this point. I got a similar feeling of roominess from the Chrysler 300, the Mercury Montego (which means the Ford 500 would have felt the same way) and maybe one or two I am missing right now. It was one of the roomiest vehicles on display.
The interior was qualitative certainly but nothing super-special. At least not when compared to the hype about this vehicle and its quality overall. Don’t get me wrong, for a non-luxury brand, it is very well made, but nothing extraordinary here. Also, the fact that pretty much everything on the dash and console have this feature of flip-able panels, is not to my liking. Why are you trying to hide the controls Toyota? How is this useful to the driver? In any case, this is a great offering but not super impressive. I hear it isolates you from the road ala-ES330, which is appropriate for the segment.
The FTSX Concept is next and I am only going to say what I said before about his new generation of crossover vehicles. We will see everyone do one! It’s unavoidable. And it will take away from both, SUV and Minivan market share. Even full size sedans. So I don’t know why is Ford spending all this money on the 500/Montego, etc. They should be doing crossovers ala-GST/FTSX/Portico.
The FTSX looks great. And I think what we will see put in production will be very similar.
The Ridgeline is next and I have to say, this thing looks a lot bigger live than it does on photos. This is one tough looking truck up close. It’s saying, “I may be carrying the Honda brand name but I aint playing games. I will be able to take the abuse sir.”
People were getting in and saying, this feels small inside. I sat in the back seats with a 6.2 guy in front of me and I almost had as much room as in the Avalon! What do these truck guys want? A limo for a truck?
The Ridgeline is VERY well made. The vehicle is shouting quality and ruggedness. It’s no toy-truck, it’s to be taken very seriously in the category.
The Civic concept is next. This concept looks great from the rear. But the front just gives me this impression of…something is missing here. Like the CLS from Mercedes. Overall, real nice job. The design of the rear lights looks beautiful. Very sporty and elegant. Great job for the category.
Talking about the Civic, I got into both a current gen. Civic and a Corolla back-to-back and I realized why Toyota is wining the battle in high volume production cars. The civic is supposed to be well made and qualitative, etc., etc., well…the Corolla is on a class of its own folks. Yes, it’s not only better, it a LOT better. The Corollas is a sloppily-made Lexus. The Civic is a well made Cavalier. One way to put it.
I also got in the Evo and WRX. I have read of so many complaints about the Evo, I was expecting a lot worse. Overall the Evo’s interior is less ergonomic than that of the Subaru’s but there is not a huge difference there. The Imprezza is ahead but not by much. One big problem with the Evo, the very high seating position. You sit just like in our CLS. Unacceptable for a car of this character. Heck it’s unacceptable in our car’s case, imagine how bad it really is for the Evo class.
Next is the Nissan Azeal concept. This concept looks worse live than on pics. It also looks a lot more like a concept live than on pics. Which to me, makes it irrelevant. Maybe because I was thinking of looking at the Azeal to see the next Sentra. I was expecting a lot more realistic lines and flow. The strength of this concept is not its front nor rear. It’s the flow of the roofline, hence its strength is its side view. Also it’s a lot smaller than you’d think. It’s Civic coupe size. Finally the design of the back door (trunk) is not to my liking and it reminds me of a worse interpretation of that of the G6’s rear. I don’t know, but I was not very impressed by this concept.
Unlike the Azeal, I loved the Mitsubishi Eclipse. This thing looks great! It looks better than the concept they had there a year ago. Very good job by Mitsu. They would not let us touch the car, but I was so close and felt able to take a general guess about the car’s overall quality. The car gave me this impression of low quality build, was the verdict. I don’t know how, it did not inspire quality somehow.
What is up with the rear wheel/fender gap? Mitsu made the same mistake with the 2nd generation DSM cars. Cant they do something about that? You don’t necessarily have to lower the car for the right effect. Cant they lower the flow of the fender?
What remains to be seen is how will this FWD drivetrain will react to the pretty substantial torque of the 3.8 liter V6.
Nex is the Advanced Lightweight Concept by Jaguar. I believe this is what the next generation Jaguars will loook like. And overall, I believe, it looks great! Note the switch to center exhaust tips. Many manufacturers have been going that way, with possibly Porsche as one of the pioneers, if not the pioneer. What I like best about this car, is Jaguar’s tangible effort to take weight off of all their cars. I think that’s a great undertaking and I am surprised by the rest in the category not doing it. All vehicles are getting to be way too heavy. We need to also start trying to take weight off of the vehicles, rather than only trying to make more powerful engines. I know many talk about it, but only Jaguar has brought results with the current generation XJ car which flies with a relatively small (for the category) V8 engine. Kudos to them and shame on Audi which has been talking about aluminum spaceframe construction for years now and supposedly doing it with ZERO results. They should all be put on probation just for that. How do they dare advertise it so much for so long anyway? It reminds of the “Northstar System” vaporware by Cadillac. Lightweight construction yet the A8 is heavier than my boat. Bitch mode off.
The Lincoln Zephyr is next. The Zephyr is huge and it looks great in my opinion. That grill looks great. Very clean design. Very well done Ford!
The Mercury Milan is next and the first impression I get is that this car is not as large as I thought it’d be. This car would do great in Europe in my opinion. It also looks great to me. Looking at the front I realized and concluded that this is what the Accord should have looked like if Honda dared to put a nice looking grill in between those lights. Unfortunately, we were not able to get in the car and touch and feel.
Next is the GR1 concept. This car looks like an experimental airplane prototype due to the way it’s built on the outside. No paint, just plain shiny alloy. It looks more impressive live than on the photos. It looks as impressive as when they unveiled the GT concept initially. Look how flat the bottom of the car is. I wonder if the production car will be as flat as the concept. Ford should build this one too and I think they will. Keeping the HP at the concept levels should give the Enzo a good run.
There were a bunch of Mustangs next to the GR1 but I took pics of the 281 Saleen Mustang because I thought it looked well done. Though I got inside a couple of stangs to get a feeling of the interior and the quality of the car. In brief, I was disappointed. The way the door close and how much they weigh, gave me the impression of how the doors in my 1996 Talon AWD did. Unacceptable for a 2005 car, no matter what the category. The interior is also nothing impressive. The design is OK because it’s relevant to the theme, but it’s nothing to write home about, as far as quality goes.
Next is the Subaru Tribeca. I was impressed from this vehicle in the end and I have concluded that this will make a ton of money for Subaru. It looks a lot better up close. The controversial nose is not as pronounced as it looks on the pics. In the end, I feel that Zapatinas did a great job in designing a unique offering for the segment. Although it looks like he copied several other manufacturers here and there, you don’t see that when you see the vehicle because it is unique as a package. That’s the feeling I got when I stood back and looked at it with an unbiased eye.
Also, although they did not let us get inside the vehicle, I LOVED the design of this interior. IT IS THE BEST designed interior in the segment, if not in general (regardless of category). I am not sure of the quality of the interior, but it looks great and very ergonomic (I was able to get VERY close to the interior, just not close enough to touch).
Next is the Saturn Sky. Boy oh boy! This thing looks great on pics, but looks amazing live! I was VERY impressed by this vehicle and I am 100% certain that Saturn is not only saved by this car and the next car I will write about, but it will actually thrive in the future if things continue like this. Saturn will have a better turnaround than Cadillac has folks is my prediction.
The Sky is a great offering even if the price was 30K in my opinion. At 19K it will sell like hotcakes. The next generation Miata is truly in trouble, no doubt about it. The Sky looks like a very serious contender for the segment. In my opinion it’s more beautiful and impressive than the Boxster, the S2000 and even the SLK! Have I praised it enough already? Seriously. I was blown away by this vehicle and I saw it on pics several times before I saw it live!
I felt that Opel designed this vehicle when I saw it live. I see many lines that one would expect from European offerings. But then again, what does it matter. It’s available here and I hope we see some serious HP from this thing in the future because it has the looks to…take it.
The interior is production ready as you can see. We were not able to touch but it gives me the sense of at least average quality which is better than any Saturn today.
Next is the Saturn Aura. Man Saturn is on a roll! For anyone that has seen the Opel Astra, you get the idea that it was stretched and “sedanized” for the American market. I am not sure if the platform is the same, but I would not be surprised if it were. This thing also looks great, front and rear. It has nothing to do with where Saturn is today and where it was in the past. This is a new era for Saturn and it looks VERY promising folks. I hope Lutz fixes them soon and I hope we see similar results from Buick next.
Next is the Cobalt. I got into the SS coupe first. Nope. They did not even try with the interior. Just a step up from the Cavalier. Unacceptable. I mean there is not even an armrest in there. Then I got into the sedan and I have to admit, it felt better (still not good enough though). The sedan was slightly better optioned, I could tell. And that’s what probably made the difference, but still. This is no import competitor as far as quality.
I do think the coupe looks good from the outside. Pretty aggressive. I just hope they drive well because with the new Civic coming, things are getting tight for Cobalt and it was just launched.
Next is the Corvette. I have driven this thing before, let alone sat in it. Not much to say here, we all have read about it.
But I have not driven, let alone sat in, a Z06 as you I am sure can guess. This car is impressive! It’s clearly not a C6 from the outside. And that’s a good thing if they are gonna up the price from what I hear. It is much wider and that makes a big difference. The exterior changes as compared to the base car, are subtle but they make enough of a difference to notice right away that this is no regular Vette. I hear this car will do 11.7 on the ¼ which means it will run with the GT. Impressive to say the least.
Next to the Z06 GM displayed the GTS race car. Man is that thing WIDE! Boy oh boy. You cant tell from the photos but this thing is real wide especially from the rear. Not much to say here, the team has been flawless for way too many years in a row now and they deserve every praise. GM had the guts to somewhat base the Z06 production engine on the GTS race car and that makes a difference with marketing the car and it helps with the image. I think they did it right this time. I hope we see more in the future.
Next is the Impala. With the new nose. It’s not as controversial as in the photos initially. It grows on you. Quickly. The car looks a lot more mature this way. I think it’s a step in the right direction. Unfortunately because these are not production cars, I was not able to get in and see what they did with the interior.
The HHR is next and I am thinking…I am not sure about this vehicle. I mean to have introduced this a year after the PT Cruiser came out, fine. But now, I don’t know. I don’t think this will sell very well for GM. I also hear that it’s really tiny inside. Space utilization is at low levels which is a shame for this vehicle. It does look better than the PT Cruiser in my opinion and it’s done well, but not as impressive as it would have been 2 years ago.
Next is the Buick Lucerne. Not as impressive as it should have been in my opinion. Yes Buick is supposed to be subtle, but still. We need some more wow factor here to tell the market we’re changing, someone should have told the designers in my opinion. Maybe that wow factor is all left to the future roadster hopefully coming soon. We’ll see.
If the Lucerne’s interior is anything close to the La Cross’ interior, I can say that it has been improved, but not as much as it should have been. It’s almost like what we saw from the STS. Clear leap ahead for Cadillac, but not where it should have been which is beat the best, if not be par with them. They need to do a lot better at Buick if they’re gonna impress new affluent buyers folks.
An unexpected positive surprise came next. I have driven the Volvo S60 and S80 as rentals so I know them well and I have sat in an S40 several times, so I almost passed by their area without even looking. But then I saw the XC90 V8! Wow! A few subtle changes to the right spots and this thing looks like a new vehicle. A ton better than the base car! The rear exhaust tips, although seen in the X5, they look great on this XC90.
They must be really proud to have a V8 available in this vehicle because as you see they had it displayed right in front of the car. It’s made by Yamaha. I hope it performs well.
Next you see a few pics of the exotics displayed there. I mean not much to say about the Lambo cars. Nothing new here. But I have to say that it really annoys me when every year I see the Elise next to cars like Ferraris and Lambos. How is the Elise an exotic exactly? Only Lotus knows and their marketing people. Shameful arrogance, in my opinion.
I was positively surprised to see the Ferrari F1 car displayed there. Wow!
Next is the Hyundai Portico Concept. Again, this new crossover vehicle segment is bound to make money to whoever offers this product to market first. Mercedes looks to be ahead with the GST but others may be close also. Kudos to Hyundai though for being in the game. They are on fire over at Hyundai as we all know and it shows. Good for them.
The Portico Concept looks pretty good in my opinion. It has an aggressive front and an elegant rear (which does need some work though). I hope they build it and they do a good job with quality. They also need new larger engines but I hear they’re on the way.
Next I stopped at the Cadillac area which had the V cars displayed. The CTSV is first as you see. Nothing super new here. I was pissed at Caddy for not letting us in their V cars. Unacceptable. I have driven both the CTS and STS base cars so I have been in them but never in a V car, so I was a little curious.
The STSV looks good, but what I liked the most is that now with two V offerings and one to be unveiled in a few weeks in New York (XLRV), it feels like Cadillac has a high performance family which is pretty homogenous. Design-wise at least. And that’s a great thing for this brand name which had nothing to show for itself just a couple of years ago. Obviously they are very busy over there, but they still have a TON of work to do. The interior of the CTS needs a complete overhaul and that of the STS needs a serious upgrade. Yesterday! To this day, I still think 440HP is not enough for the STSV. Just because of what the competition is doing. But it was evident that Cadillac was VERY proud of their new supercharged engine from the way they displayed it, to the way they talked about it through their presenters. Which by the way, was quite the commotion. It was obvious that they spent a ton of money for the show. And they deserve it, but they are not there yet. They cant look at Mercedes and BMW in the eye yet in my opinion and Lexus is in full force now. Watch out from Lexus, is what I’d tell Lutz. They are a far bigger threat than the Germans currently. They got more money than anyone and they have the people (a recent mgt shuffle at the top shows that Toyota/Lexus is not satisfied at being number one in the profitability arena – they smell blood with the Germans).
A couple of brands I looked closely but did not take any pics are Audi and Porsche.
Audi cars just never inspired me. I respect them but they are too subtle in my opinion. The exception possibly is the new A6 and A4 cars. I saw the new A4 two months ago in Munich where it was displayed. And loved it. Audi’s interiors continue to be top notch but I don’t see improvement with new generation offerings and that’s scary and disappointing. That’s where the competition has a chance to catch up (a better example is BMW). The constant leaps forward from brands like Acura have changed the field in my opinion. I sat in the A8 and I felt some totally unacceptable for the brand name and category materials in some areas. The Lexus LS may not have the best interior in the world but it’s consistent at least. Consistency has been an issue with all German luxury manufacturers during the past few years in my opinion.
The TT feels old at this point. The way the door closed reminded me of…another era, so to speak. I sat in the 3.2 cabrio. Looking at that engine, it’s almost completely hanging over the front axle! I mean, come on Audi!
Porsche as usual has their cars locked except the new Boxster and Cayenne. Like I wrote above, I was impressed by the new Boxster interior. It’s not Acura-like, but I was expecting far worse. The ergonomics, as always, lack. Germans will never get it when it comes to ergonomics when compared with the best.
The two trunks offered in the Boxster is a cool feature. It was pronounced during the show because they had both open. A ton of cheap plastic in the trunk made me feel unlike what I felt sitting inside the car. A lot of compartments felt loose and unacceptable for the money one has to come up with to pay for a Boxster.
Overall I felt that the new look of both the Boxster and the 911 is a step forward. Both cars look a lot cleaner now.
That’s it for my impressions of the cars at the show. Overall, I felt that this was the best Chicago Auto Show I have been and kudos to the organizers. Looking forward to next year.
02-21-2005, 10:06 PM
#2
I'm excited about your assessment of the RL's cabin. I will be going to the NYC auto show in March and it is at the top of the list to sit in and see what all the hype is about. But if you say it's that good (the part that caught my attention was the comparison to Audi's interior, which IMO is THE benchmark), I'll just have to wait to find out...
02-21-2005, 10:13 PM
#3
BTW, the Zephyr is a Lincoln, not a Mercury. Did you mean the Montego (since you said it was huge)?
02-21-2005, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by phile
I'm excited about your assessment of the RL's cabin. I will be going to the NYC auto show in March and it is at the top of the list to sit in and see what all the hype is about. But if you say it's that good (the part that caught my attention was the comparison to Audi's interior, which IMO is THE benchmark), I'll just have to wait to find out...
Yes, the RL is that good. It's at the top now in my book. And it's not just the interior. The whole car is made with top notch precision. Very good job by Acura.
02-21-2005, 11:13 PM
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Gav: Great review. I attended the Detroit show and I have to pretty much agree with most of your assessment above. Here are a few of my highlights and feedback on your info above:
Infiniti: I also was very impressed with the M45. The interior is very nice and is very close to the GS and probably better than the 5 series and E class.
Saturn: Their display was extremely impressive. The Sky is outstanding in person and probably one of my favorite cars in the show. The Aura was very nice as well.
Cadillac: I agree that the CTS and STS interiors were disappointing. I actually like the STS, but I was sad that the feel of the interior is still sub par compared to the competition. I disagree about the STS-V though. I think 440hp is plenty. Having a 500hp luxury car is a little ridiculious and since the STS-V is supposed to do 0-60 in the 4.8 second range, I think thats more than sufficient.
Mitsubishi: I personally was not a fan of the new Eclipse. I think it looks too porky to be a serious competitor. In regards to the Evo interior, my good friend has an Evo and another has a STi. The major problem with the Evo interior is the durability of the interior materials. It just does not hold up and should have been slighly improved for a $30+k car.
Acura: I think the RL has a very nice interior, but overall my friends and I were just not that impressed with it at all (especially the exterior). We drove to Detroit in my friends 04 TL with Nav and the RL was actually smaller inside, less distinguished looking outside and while the interior was very nice, it wasn't light years better than the TL's interior (not worth $15-20k more IMO). The new TL is such a great car for the price and if it came with SH-AWD, I'd see no reason to get an RL.
Smart: It was the same way in Detroit. The cars were locked and the people working there looked like cocky Euro-trash. No thanks.
Toyota: Although I would never buy an Avalon, I was very impressed with the car overall. I think it is probably the best choice out there right now for a large sedan. The interior felt almost like a Lexus and was so comfortable. I felt like I could take a nice comfortable nap in the back seat. Nice job Toyota!
Porsche: I agree that the new 911 and Boxter are nice improvements. Nothing revolutionary but a nice evolution.
Infiniti: I also was very impressed with the M45. The interior is very nice and is very close to the GS and probably better than the 5 series and E class.
Saturn: Their display was extremely impressive. The Sky is outstanding in person and probably one of my favorite cars in the show. The Aura was very nice as well.
Cadillac: I agree that the CTS and STS interiors were disappointing. I actually like the STS, but I was sad that the feel of the interior is still sub par compared to the competition. I disagree about the STS-V though. I think 440hp is plenty. Having a 500hp luxury car is a little ridiculious and since the STS-V is supposed to do 0-60 in the 4.8 second range, I think thats more than sufficient.
Mitsubishi: I personally was not a fan of the new Eclipse. I think it looks too porky to be a serious competitor. In regards to the Evo interior, my good friend has an Evo and another has a STi. The major problem with the Evo interior is the durability of the interior materials. It just does not hold up and should have been slighly improved for a $30+k car.
Acura: I think the RL has a very nice interior, but overall my friends and I were just not that impressed with it at all (especially the exterior). We drove to Detroit in my friends 04 TL with Nav and the RL was actually smaller inside, less distinguished looking outside and while the interior was very nice, it wasn't light years better than the TL's interior (not worth $15-20k more IMO). The new TL is such a great car for the price and if it came with SH-AWD, I'd see no reason to get an RL.
Smart: It was the same way in Detroit. The cars were locked and the people working there looked like cocky Euro-trash. No thanks.
Toyota: Although I would never buy an Avalon, I was very impressed with the car overall. I think it is probably the best choice out there right now for a large sedan. The interior felt almost like a Lexus and was so comfortable. I felt like I could take a nice comfortable nap in the back seat. Nice job Toyota!
Porsche: I agree that the new 911 and Boxter are nice improvements. Nothing revolutionary but a nice evolution.
Last edited by cusdaddy; 02-21-2005 at 11:17 PM.
02-21-2005, 11:15 PM
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Regarding the current GS/M/RL debates which I have been enjoying, I completely agree with you on what you said. I really do believe the RL's interior is top notch. Look EVERYWHERE and you will see clean, top notch materials. And sure the M and GS kind of cut corners, but they still look like a million bucks. Each car has its flaw, though.
-The RL exterior is bland and the chassis/drivetrain lacks the sportiness of the others.
-The GS is nothing special in terms of technology, powertrain
-The M's styling won't appeal to everyone, the interior layout isn't everyone's favorite. Also, the door panels look outdated with that wood and draped leather.
I enjoyed reading this, Gavrill, great job.
My personal favs on the "luxury side" were the new Audi's (and those beautiful grills), the CLS and SLK55 AMG, the M3 Comp. and M5, the Infiniti M, and the Lexus LF-A.
-The RL exterior is bland and the chassis/drivetrain lacks the sportiness of the others.
-The GS is nothing special in terms of technology, powertrain
-The M's styling won't appeal to everyone, the interior layout isn't everyone's favorite. Also, the door panels look outdated with that wood and draped leather.
I enjoyed reading this, Gavrill, great job.
My personal favs on the "luxury side" were the new Audi's (and those beautiful grills), the CLS and SLK55 AMG, the M3 Comp. and M5, the Infiniti M, and the Lexus LF-A.
02-21-2005, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by cusdaddy
Gav: Great review. I attended the Detroit show and I have to pretty much agree with most of your assessment above. Here are a few of my highlights and feedback on your info above:
Infiniti: I also was very impressed with the M45. The interior is very nice and is very close to the GS and probably better than the 5 series and E class.
Saturn: Their display was extremely impressive. The Sky is outstanding in person and probably one of my favorite cars in the show. The Aura was very nice as well.
Cadillac: I agree that the CTS and STS interiors were disappointing. I actually like the STS, but I was sad that the feel of the interior is still sub par compared to the competition. I disagree about the STS-V though. I think 440hp is plenty. Having a 500hp luxury car is a little ridiculious and since the STS-V is supposed to do 0-60 in the 4.8 second range, I think thats more than sufficient.
Mitsubishi: I personally was not a fan of the new Eclipse. I think it looks too porky to be a serious competitor. In regards to the Evo interior, my good friend has an Evo and another has a STi. The major problem with the Evo interior is the durability of the interior materials. It just does not hold up and should have been slighly improved for a $30+k car.
Acura: I think the RL has a very nice interior, but overall my friends and I were just not that impressed with it at all (especially the exterior). We drove to Detroit in my friends 04 TL with Nav and the RL was actually smaller inside, less distinguished looking outside and while the interior was very nice, it wasn't light years better than the TL's interior (not worth $15-20k more IMO). The new TL is such a great car for the price and if it came with SH-AWD, I'd see no reason to get an RL.
Smart: It was the same way in Detroit. The cars were locked and the people working there looked like cocky Euro-trash. No thanks.
Toyota: Although I would never buy an Avalon, I was very impressed with the car overall. I think it is probably the best choice out there right now for a large sedan. The interior felt almost like a Lexus and was so comfortable. I felt like I could take a nice comfortable nap in the back seat. Nice job Toyota!
Porsche: I agree that the new 911 and Boxter are nice improvements. Nothing revolutionary but a nice evolution.
Infiniti: I also was very impressed with the M45. The interior is very nice and is very close to the GS and probably better than the 5 series and E class.
Saturn: Their display was extremely impressive. The Sky is outstanding in person and probably one of my favorite cars in the show. The Aura was very nice as well.
Cadillac: I agree that the CTS and STS interiors were disappointing. I actually like the STS, but I was sad that the feel of the interior is still sub par compared to the competition. I disagree about the STS-V though. I think 440hp is plenty. Having a 500hp luxury car is a little ridiculious and since the STS-V is supposed to do 0-60 in the 4.8 second range, I think thats more than sufficient.
Mitsubishi: I personally was not a fan of the new Eclipse. I think it looks too porky to be a serious competitor. In regards to the Evo interior, my good friend has an Evo and another has a STi. The major problem with the Evo interior is the durability of the interior materials. It just does not hold up and should have been slighly improved for a $30+k car.
Acura: I think the RL has a very nice interior, but overall my friends and I were just not that impressed with it at all (especially the exterior). We drove to Detroit in my friends 04 TL with Nav and the RL was actually smaller inside, less distinguished looking outside and while the interior was very nice, it wasn't light years better than the TL's interior (not worth $15-20k more IMO). The new TL is such a great car for the price and if it came with SH-AWD, I'd see no reason to get an RL.
Smart: It was the same way in Detroit. The cars were locked and the people working there looked like cocky Euro-trash. No thanks.
Toyota: Although I would never buy an Avalon, I was very impressed with the car overall. I think it is probably the best choice out there right now for a large sedan. The interior felt almost like a Lexus and was so comfortable. I felt like I could take a nice comfortable nap in the back seat. Nice job Toyota!
Porsche: I agree that the new 911 and Boxter are nice improvements. Nothing revolutionary but a nice evolution.
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02-21-2005, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by gocubsgo55
Regarding the current GS/M/RL debates which I have been enjoying, I completely agree with you on what you said. I really do believe the RL's interior is top notch. Look EVERYWHERE and you will see clean, top notch materials. And sure the M and GS kind of cut corners, but they still look like a million bucks. Each car has its flaw, though.
-The RL exterior is bland and the chassis/drivetrain lacks the sportiness of the others.
-The GS is nothing special in terms of technology, powertrain
-The M's styling won't appeal to everyone, the interior layout isn't everyone's favorite. Also, the door panels look outdated with that wood and draped leather.
I enjoyed reading this, Gavrill, great job.
My personal favs on the "luxury side" were the new Audi's (and those beautiful grills), the CLS and SLK55 AMG, the M3 Comp. and M5, the Infiniti M, and the Lexus LF-A.
-The RL exterior is bland and the chassis/drivetrain lacks the sportiness of the others.
-The GS is nothing special in terms of technology, powertrain
-The M's styling won't appeal to everyone, the interior layout isn't everyone's favorite. Also, the door panels look outdated with that wood and draped leather.
I enjoyed reading this, Gavrill, great job.
My personal favs on the "luxury side" were the new Audi's (and those beautiful grills), the CLS and SLK55 AMG, the M3 Comp. and M5, the Infiniti M, and the Lexus LF-A.
By the way you reminded that I forgot to bash BMW for the way they showed the M3. It was on a pedestal! Locked of course and out of reach. For God's sake BMW! Why dont you put it with the Lambos like the Lotus arrogant f!cks and call it an exotic!
Also, there was no M5 there. Or did I miss it? Not that I was looking for it to tell you the truth.
02-21-2005, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by phile
BTW, the Zephyr is a Lincoln, not a Mercury. Did you mean the Montego (since you said it was huge)?
I stand corrected and will edit the text. Thanks.
02-22-2005, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
Thanks.
By the way you reminded that I forgot to bash BMW for the way they showed the M3. It was on a pedestal! Locked of course and out of reach. For God's sake BMW! Why dont you put it with the Lambos like the Lotus arrogant f!cks and call it an exotic!
Also, there was no M5 there. Or did I miss it? Not that I was looking for it to tell you the truth.
By the way you reminded that I forgot to bash BMW for the way they showed the M3. It was on a pedestal! Locked of course and out of reach. For God's sake BMW! Why dont you put it with the Lambos like the Lotus arrogant f!cks and call it an exotic!
Also, there was no M5 there. Or did I miss it? Not that I was looking for it to tell you the truth.
However, the CGT impressed the hell out of me - it was also the first car I saw, a nice surprise, I had no idea it was going to be there - I liked seeing it just as much as I liked seeing the SLR - two cars you read about and see at various sites, very nice to see in person. I spent about 10 minutes gawking and taking pics of the CGT, and then stopped by to see it again later. lol.
I will have the rest of my pics up later.
02-22-2005, 01:37 PM
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oh yeah, I don't know if you noticed, but the CGT was well-used. The tires were almost bald. My guess is that someone local had one, and was approached to have their car at the auto show. Looks like it had been tracked, at least, I would hope that was the cause of its wear.
I wonder how you missed the M5 too, seeing how you wrote a book on everything else.
I wonder how you missed the M5 too, seeing how you wrote a book on everything else.
02-22-2005, 02:56 PM
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Gav, it seems like that place is empty...was that the case cause when i go to the NY show you cant even move around the ferraris and such.
Also what was your impresion of the Firepower, i think the thing looks realy cool.
Also what was your impresion of the Firepower, i think the thing looks realy cool.
02-22-2005, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Collective27
Gav, it seems like that place is empty...was that the case cause when i go to the NY show you cant even move around the ferraris and such.
Also what was your impresion of the Firepower, i think the thing looks realy cool.
Also what was your impresion of the Firepower, i think the thing looks realy cool.
I was there between 10 AM and 2 PM of a weekday, that's why it looked empty.
I cant believe I forgot to write about the Firepower! Thank you for reminding me.
The Firepower looks awsome, in a word! I looks way better than the C6 in my opinion. It adds the elegance factor missing from the C6, I believe. I know this car will be produced because you can tell from the concept that probably 85% of the car is done. Let alone the "rumors" we read about it being greenlighted already.
Chrysler is on a roll and I think that many will buy the Firpower over the C6 two years from now.
02-22-2005, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by srika
oh yeah, I don't know if you noticed, but the CGT was well-used. The tires were almost bald. My guess is that someone local had one, and was approached to have their car at the auto show. Looks like it had been tracked, at least, I would hope that was the cause of its wear.
I wonder how you missed the M5 too, seeing how you wrote a book on everything else.
I wonder how you missed the M5 too, seeing how you wrote a book on everything else.
02-22-2005, 04:01 PM
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I did not notice any wear on the CGT. Probably because it did not cause me to stare. It was also the fist car I was exposed to and the thought was "there's tons more to see and not much time left so 15 seconds of looking is enough".
02-22-2005, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
I did not notice any wear on the CGT. Probably because it did not cause me to stare. It was also the fist car I was exposed to and the thought was "there's tons more to see and not much time left so 15 seconds of looking is enough".
You can kind of notice it in this pic:
02-22-2005, 04:44 PM
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02-22-2005, 05:06 PM
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At the Detroit show, they had 2 M5's that we could sit in. Strange how they put it on a pedestal at the Chicago show. It was decent, but left me completely underwhelmed. The engine was about the only part of the car that I loved.
02-22-2005, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by cusdaddy
It was decent, but left me completely underwhelmed. The engine was about the only part of the car that I loved.
Nice powertrain, but the car fucking nasty.....like the rest of the 5series.
The interior seriously looks like a work in progress.
02-22-2005, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by charliemike
I absolutely do not like the SLR. That car is a mess. How long is that hood? 10 feet?
Neat car, but $450k? Even if you could get one for that.....no thanks.
02-22-2005, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximized
I was drooling over the brakes, so I noticed right away. The car was definetly tracked to get the tires that warm, but doesn't look like it was pushed too hard.
You can kind of notice it in this pic:
You can kind of notice it in this pic:
Yeap. Tire wear is obvious here. On the outside sidewall point.
02-22-2005, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by cusdaddy
At the Detroit show, they had 2 M5's that we could sit in. Strange how they put it on a pedestal at the Chicago show. It was decent, but left me completely underwhelmed. The engine was about the only part of the car that I loved.
The thing is that I was able to get an M3 during last year's show. I dont get it. Maybe I missed the unlocked M3 sitting on the floor like I missed the M5. Who knows.
02-22-2005, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Beltfed
Of course, the car is ugly enough to wake the dead.
Originally Posted by Beltfed
The interior seriously looks like a work in progress.
02-22-2005, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by charliemike
I absolutely do not like the SLR. That car is a mess. How long is that hood? 10 feet?
Dude! Have you seen it live?
02-22-2005, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Beltfed
I'm with you....local dealer has one, certain angles look good while others just look strange or not very good looking.
Neat car, but $450k? Even if you could get one for that.....no thanks.
Neat car, but $450k? Even if you could get one for that.....no thanks.
If I had 450K I would certainly not spend it on one car. It'd probably get an F430, a Maserati Spyder and a few other cars.
02-22-2005, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
Dude! Have you seen it live?
I have to also say that I liked the design of the Firepower better than the SLR which had a slightly similar design.
I wouldn't ever turn down a SLR, but I actually liked the SL65 they had in Detroit better.
02-22-2005, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
Oh no! The M3 was on a pedestal! Imagine how cocky these people are.
The thing is that I was able to get an M3 during last year's show. I dont get it. Maybe I missed the unlocked M3 sitting on the floor like I missed the M5. Who knows.
The thing is that I was able to get an M3 during last year's show. I dont get it. Maybe I missed the unlocked M3 sitting on the floor like I missed the M5. Who knows.
02-22-2005, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by cusdaddy
Nothing too exciting though. You didn't miss much at all.
True, but I am trying to make a point about BMW not being down to earh in this case.
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