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Is there any pricing info on this? What's the market positioning of this car? Is it more of a M5 competitor, or 550i?
I wonder if it will be significantly cheaper than M5, E63 AMG, and CTS-V. I mean, those are cars packing 560 to 640hp without being a whole lot heavier. And chances are, those cars are probably underrated too. The GS F "only" has ~470hp and is down in torque by a big margin.
It seems like the GS-F is more of a CTS V-sport, 550i, and E550 competitor. While the GS-F has more hp than these, the others have the advantage in torque.
Lexus fans that admire the RC F but simply can’t live with a coupe have just had their prayers answered. The Japanese firm has revealed a new GS F performance sedan, which will be introduced at next week’s Detroit Auto Show before going on sale later in the year as a 2016 model.
Lexus recently announced that it was about to unleash a “track-ready” car destined to sit alongside the RC F in the brand’s growing stable of “F brand high-performance models.” Now we can confirm the car is in fact the long-awaited GS F, which helps fill the void now that the IS F, Lexus’ previous performance sedan, is no longer on sale.
Power in the GS F comes from the same naturally-aspirated 5.0-liter V-8 found in the RC F, and output is unchanged at 467 horsepower and 389 pound-feet. Suffice it to say, the GS F will have a hard time keeping up with rivals like the BMW M5 and Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG, both of which have around 100 hp more to play with. Meanwhile, Cadillac’s new CTS-V, which also debuts in Detroit, shouldn’t even have to break a sweat to outgun the Lexus thanks to its own 640-hp rating.
Where Lexus hopes the GS F stands apart is in ride and handling. Drive goes to the rear wheels only, via an eight-speed automatic transmission with paddle shifters. A torque vectoring differential with three levels of adjustment—Standard, Slalom and Track—is also fitted to the car, helping in regards to handling. The chassis also gets a number of structural reinforcements to boost rigidity and the suspension has been honed on some of the world’s best race tracks, including the Nürburgring.
The stock wheels are a 19-inch set, shod with 255/35 tires in the front and 275/35 in the rear. The curb weight measures in at 4,034 lbs, which is somewhat hefty but better than that of some rivals. The new CTS-V, for example, weighs 4,145 lbs.
Interestingly, the headlights on the GS F are different to those on the regular GS range. The design features three individual clusters in the main headlight unit plus a separate ‘L’ swoosh daytime running light. Other visual tweaks include the stacked exhaust tips at the rear, aggressive front bumper and flared fenders.
More details on the 2016 Lexus GS F should be released following the car’s debut at the Detroit Auto Show in a week’s time.
Is there any pricing info on this? What's the market positioning of this car? Is it more of a M5 competitor, or 550i?
I wonder if it will be significantly cheaper than M5, E63 AMG, and CTS-V. I mean, those are cars packing 560 to 640hp without being a whole lot heavier. And chances are, those cars are probably underrated too. The GS F "only" has ~470hp and is down in torque by a big margin.
It seems like the GS-F is more of a CTS V-sport, 550i, and E550 competitor. While the GS-F has more hp than these, the others have the advantage in torque.
Considering ISF/RCF is a direct competitor to M3/M4
on paper, it would only make sense that GSF is a direct competitor with M5, until you start looking at the #s.
I think Lexus kinda missed the mark with GSF, they should have added some FI to the ISF engine and call it a GSF...
Considering ISF/RCF is a direct competitor to M3/M4
on paper, it would only make sense that GSF is a direct competitor with M5, until you start looking at the #s.
I think Lexus kinda missed the mark with GSF, they should have added some FI to the ISF engine and call it a GSF...
Agreed. This won't cause anyone to Cross-shop an M/RS/AMG with a GSF. It needed more power, which is crazy to think about with the power numbers it has. Cars are fun now.
Toyota needs to rename this thing, something like GS500 F-Sport. Forget about M/AMG/RS for a second, even a S6 will smoke it.
A real GSF should've come with the LF-A V10 engine, simply ask Yamaha(which was largely responsible for the LFA engine design, and Toyota is the biggest shareholder)to create a updated version of that engine for the car.
Considering ISF/RCF is a direct competitor to M3/M4
on paper, it would only make sense that GSF is a direct competitor with M5, until you start looking at the #s.
I think Lexus kinda missed the mark with GSF, they should have added some FI to the ISF engine and call it a GSF...
Yea, I guess there's not much room in terms of pricing too. A GS350 F sport is at $55k, the GS450h is at $61k, and GS 450h F sport is just below $70k.
Logically, the GS-F will be the range topper, which means it will be at $80k or so. A S6 for comparison starts at $71k while the M5 and E63 start at $90k. The CTS Vsport starts at $60k and is probably just as fast.
Originally Posted by MSZ
Toyota needs to rename this thing, something like GS500 F-Sport. Forget about M/AMG/RS for a second, even a S6 will smoke it.
A real GSF should've come with the LF-A V10 engine, simply ask Yamaha(which was largely responsible for the LFA engine design, and Toyota is the biggest shareholder)to create a updated version of that engine for the car.
It would keep up with the M5 and E63 all the way to the 1/4 mile. Pretty darn amazing.
Good point on the LFA engine. I almost forgot about that car. I don't know if that would be way too expensive for the GS-F, but that engine (even a detuned one) would have been nice in the GS-F.
I agree that it needs more power if it's going after it's German rivals, but considering the estimated price difference, I think it's a worthy contender.
Toyota needs to rename this thing, something like GS500 F-Sport. Forget about M/AMG/RS for a second, even a S6 will smoke it.
A real GSF should've come with the LF-A V10 engine, simply ask Yamaha(which was largely responsible for the LFA engine design, and Toyota is the biggest shareholder)to create a updated version of that engine for the car.
Considering ISF/RCF is a direct competitor to M3/M4
on paper, it would only make sense that GSF is a direct competitor with M5, until you start looking at the #s.
I think Lexus kinda missed the mark with GSF, they should have added some FI to the ISF engine and call it a GSF...
The biggest difference is going to be in resale value. At least this thing won't shit the bed as soon as the warranty expires. It's still a Lexus at the end of the day.
This won't compete with the big guns though. This motor in an ISF would be perfect. It needs a turbo or two to make it worthwhile in the bigger car.
Originally Posted by oonowindoo
I wonder if those harness holes are actually functional or poser only?
I agree that it needs more power if it's going after it's German rivals, but considering the estimated price difference, I think it's a worthy contender.
What's the estimated price?
For sure it can't be priced at $85k+. That would put it directly against the M5, E63 class.
It will probably need to be priced closer to the 550i and CTS Vsport, which start at $65k and $60k respectively.
But I'm not sure if that's possible. Like I said, the GS350 F sport is at $55k already, while the GS 450h F sport is at $70k. I'd be surprised if the GS F is cheaper than the GS450h F sport.
For sure it can't be priced at $85k+. That would put it directly against the M5, E63 class.
It will probably need to be priced closer to the 550i and CTS Vsport, which start at $65k and $60k respectively.
But I'm not sure if that's possible. Like I said, the GS350 F sport is at $55k already, while the GS 450h F sport is at $70k. I'd be surprised if the GS F is cheaper than the GS450h F sport.
Totally worth it. Can you grate cheese with the M5/E63?
For sure it can't be priced at $85k+. That would put it directly against the M5, E63 class.
It will probably need to be priced closer to the 550i and CTS Vsport, which start at $65k and $60k respectively.
But I'm not sure if that's possible. Like I said, the GS350 F sport is at $55k already, while the GS 450h F sport is at $70k. I'd be surprised if the GS F is cheaper than the GS450h F sport.
The M5/E63 are both $93K+ starting. The GSF should start somewhere around $70-$75K & $80K loaded because it's not expected to have things like the Carbon Package or Torque Vectoring options; those are believed to be standard or not available. The car's performance is more situated towards the 550i M Sport & V-Sport, so you're likely on the mark there.
The 450h line up altogether won't affect the car anyway. The 450h is the same as the LS600hL. Extremely low volume cars only ordered for a buyer. We haven't had a 450h on our lot in 9 months because they're too much hassle to move.
Yea I think $70-$80 sounds about right too, though I still feel that's a bit too much $$.
The 400hp 550i can do 0-60mph in 4.8s and 1/4 mile in 13.1@109mph. The engine has been upgraded to 445hp and I'd be surprised if the 550i can now break into the 12's for the 1/4 mile, making it just as fast as a RC-F.
Yea I think $70-$80 sounds about right too, though I still feel that's a bit too much $$.
The 400hp 550i can do 0-60mph in 4.8s and 1/4 mile in 13.1@109mph. The engine has been upgraded to 445hp and I'd be surprised if the 550i can now break into the 12's for the 1/4 mile, making it just as fast as a RC-F.
Yeah, the RC's weight right now is its achilles heel.
Yeah, the RC's weight right now is its achilles heel.
Its still only 0.32 seconds slower than the M4 at willow springs so in my books it's still a huge win. If you really want to edge out the difference throw on some lighter wheels, strip the trunk, throw on some headers and boom. People buying this car are mostly going to drive in town not on track.
For what it has including the torque vectoring diff, its an awesome package.
Its still only 0.32 seconds slower than the M4 at willow springs so in my books it's still a huge win. If you really want to edge out the difference throw on some lighter wheels, strip the trunk, throw on some headers and boom. People buying this car are mostly going to drive in town not on track.
For what it has including the torque vectoring diff, its an awesome package.
The RC-F's powerplant is definitely sufficient enough for it, but the RC lineup in general is lacking a bit. It has essentially, the same 0-60, power, & weight as a GS, yet at its core, is supposed to be the IS Coupe. However, the IS is listed as being the fastest of the 3 & 150lbs. lighter whilst the RC is the slowest (RC 5.8, GS 5.7, IS 5.6).
To be fair, these are pretty tiny differences & one could argue that the GS or IS should be faster/slower. But, I'm picking on the RC mainly because of Lexus' decision to develop the car so that a convertible model could arrive later & thus, have the chassis already built for it. This in turn, added what many feel was unnecessary weight & hampers the car. Whether or not the RC-F was affected (& it likely was since there are RC-F Convertible rumors swirling), the engine in it is enough to remain competitive.
I'm not saying the RC is bad, though. I like it & love driving them. I think the design is what continues to give Lexus the image it wants. The weight in it is just a bummer, esp. if Lexus does kill off a convertible to be developed.
The RC-F's powerplant is definitely sufficient enough for it, but the RC lineup in general is lacking a bit. It has essentially, the same 0-60, power, & weight as a GS, yet at its core, is supposed to be the IS Coupe. However, the IS is listed as being the fastest of the 3 & 150lbs. lighter whilst the RC is the slowest (RC 5.8, GS 5.7, IS 5.6).
To be fair, these are pretty tiny differences & one could argue that the GS or IS should be faster/slower. But, I'm picking on the RC mainly because of Lexus' decision to develop the car so that a convertible model could arrive later & thus, have the chassis already built for it. This in turn, added what many feel was unnecessary weight & hampers the car. Whether or not the RC-F was affected (& it likely was since there are RC-F Convertible rumors swirling), the engine in it is enough to remain competitive.
I'm not saying the RC is bad, though. I like it & love driving them. I think the design is what continues to give Lexus the image it wants. The weight in it is just a bummer, esp. if Lexus does kill off a convertible to be developed.
But, back to the GS-F.
True but its give and take in my mind. I'd give up a little performance to have a car that's bulletproof because I've owned uncompromising performance before and its not worth it when I end up spending on maintenance more than feel good mods. But that's just me.
I'm sure someone is going to end up boosting the motor and will make some crazy number and still have decent reliability to boot. I would pay for that peace of mind. I don't know how successful an RCF convertible would be though. We saw how abysmal the sales were for the IS convertible was in the lexus line up.
True but its give and take in my mind. I'd give up a little performance to have a car that's bulletproof because I've owned uncompromising performance before and its not worth it when I end up spending on maintenance more than feel good mods. But that's just me.
I'm sure someone is going to end up boosting the motor and will make some crazy number and still have decent reliability to boot. I would pay for that peace of mind. I don't know how successful an RCF convertible would be though. We saw how abysmal the sales were for the IS convertible was in the lexus line up.
Taking it from 467 to 500Hp would be more than doable without affecting the reliability. Most people expected that once it was known that the RC-F's V8 would be the powerplant, but the fact that's all Lexus did is what upsets people.
For this car to follow the Toyota Motorsports Twin-Turbo, 641Hp V8 LS460 is what upsets me the most, personally; the GS-F had all the potential to become a real M5-fighter it was reported to be if Toyota could turn its bigger sibling into a 'Ring stormer.
As for the RC-F Conv., we'll have to see. All the engineering aforementioned shows Lexus is serious about a conv. doing well, but the reports saying they canned it for a 3-row SUV & then re-greenlighting the project could say otherwise.
All I know is despite my initial thoughts on the topic car, I can't wait for the first one to come through at work. Beyond the RC lineup, I love spending just as much time in the GS, so this car still excites me with anticipation.
When Lexus released the first official shots of the 2016 GS F on Tuesday, there was plenty of enthusiasm from the Lexus faithful, but it’s worth mentioning that there were plenty of ClubLexus members were left underwhelmed.
The main reason? The power figure—the V8 didn’t gain any ponies in the transition from the RC F coupe to the sedan. Since we know there has to be some power left on the table, it’s a little curious the engineering team didn’t make a few tweaks to give it a little more poke. Here’s how Chief Engineer Yukihiko Yaguchi responded when Automobile Magazine asked him about it:
Automobile: Was there any thought given to increasing power given that the Lexus GS F is bigger and heavier than the RC F, or are you confident it will perform with sedans in the similar class?
Yaguchi: The cars’ performance is almost the same so I want customers to choose which they like: sedan or coupe between RC F and GS F, as that is a matter of taste. The GS F will offer a Lexus F brand performance experience with a focus on fun and an easy-to-drive experience, while balancing its street and track character.
12-18-2014, 04:03 PM
I love it!
