Lexus: GS News
03-22-2005, 05:34 PM
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2006 Lexus GS300 - - Another step toward perfection. Hold the passion. - - BY TONY SWAN - - Source: www.caranddriver.com
April 2005
Chief engineer Shigetoshi Miyoshi invoked the "p" word—"passion"—frequently in his preview presentation for the third-generation Lexus GS series, but after a short day of mountain-road driving around Palm Springs, we're not convinced it's the word that really captures the essence of these new sedans.
How about "sophisticated"? Hard to dispute that as a descriptor. The inventory of electromechanical enhancements—VVT-i, AVS, EPS, VGRS, EBD, TPM, AFS, VDIM—rivals the alphabetical agencies of the Roosevelt administration. These babies—the GS300 and the GS430—are nothing if not trick. Particularly the GS430.
Stylish would also seem to apply. So would smooth, quiet, tasteful, and hedonistic. But even though the GS430 is, according to division manager Denny Clements, "the fastest Lexus ever built," it doesn't seem to be the kind of car we associate with red mist and seeking out the long way home. As luxoid sports sedans go, its message seems more attuned to the cerebrum than to the viscera.
We'll see the GS430 in more detail next month. For this report, we'll cover the GS300, which is offered in rear- and all-wheel drive, a first for a Lexus passenger car, and thus our focus here.
So let's examine what Lexus hath wrought. The last GS makeover was for the 1998 model year, which is ancient in terms of design shelf life today. So it's good that the new GS really is new—new body shell, new styling, new technology, new just about everything, with the exception of the GS430's 4.3-liter V-8, which is shared with the flagship LS430 sedan. The new GS is a slightly bigger car than the previous version, although the biggest dimensional change—a 2.0-inch wheelbase stretch, to 112.2 inches—is hard to see, as is the wider (by 1.2 inches) rear track. The beam has broadened from 70.9 inches to 71.7, and overall length has increased fractionally, from 189.2 to 190.0 inches. The roofline has come up slightly, from 55.9 to 56.1 inches (56.5 for the all-wheel-drive model), and Lexus is attempting to make a virtue of increased front overhang, which allows a "simpler, rounder, and more sculpted profile," according to Miyoshi.
Another distinct break with this car's Giugiaro-inspired past is a distinctly higher beltline, which, again quoting Miyoshi, "is more stylish, more formal, and conveys a more serious presence." The net result, says Lexus, is "a major departure from the norm," which works—provided your GS isn't parked next to a new Mercedes CLS.
Operating full time, the GS300's all-wheel-drive system features a planetary gearset and a wet, multidisc clutch to couple the primary drive wheels, at the rear, to the front. The standard torque split is 30/70 front to rear, but the system's electronic brain can vary that to 50/50, making its judgments on the basis of various driver inputs such as throttle angle and steering angle, plus vehicle data such as wheel speed and yaw rate. An interesting element of the AWD package is that it includes all-season run-flat tires (225/50-17), which Lexus vaguely cites as a weight-saving measure, since it eliminates the spare. Even so, the AWD GS300 outweighs the basic rear-drive version by about 200 pounds. That's not as bad as it sounds, since the standard version, at about 3550 pounds, is claimed to be roughly 100 pounds lighter than the previous GS300.
This improvement is largely attributable to the car's all-new 3.0-liter DOHC 24-valve aluminum V-6, which replaces an iron-block straight-six of identical displacement. With Toyota's VVT-i variable-valve-timing system operating on both cams, plus direct injection, plus a formidable 11.5:1 compression ratio, the new six generates 245 horsepower and 230 pound-feet of torque, compared with 220 of each for its predecessor. The new V-6 is bolted to an equally new six-speed automatic transmission, featuring manumatic shifting and an electronic brain that does a good job of avoiding excessive hunting, particularly in uphill runs.
couple other noteworthy features before we hit the road. The comprehensive airbag inventory includes a pair of bags dedicated to knee preservation for the driver and front passenger. There's also a new optional "pre-collision system" that uses adaptive cruise-control radar to evaluate closing speeds and decide whether collision is imminent, in which case it cinches seatbelts and preinitializes the brake system for quicker response. Unusual touches: A small bin flips down from the lower left side of the dash to provide access to infrequently used controls, such as side-mirror adjustments, and the glass covering the instrument cluster varies its transparency to reduce glare.
Now for a little behind-the-wheel. The new six pulls smoothly and quietly, with more authority than we recall from the previous six. Lexus claims 0 to 60 in 6.9 seconds for the AWD version, which seems reasonable, although at higher altitudes it was clear there wasn't a lot of unused power for tight passing situations. We were impressed with the car's roll stiffness—cornering attitudes were gratifyingly level—as well as the grip delivered by the run-flats (Dunlops, in this case, although other brands are used, too). The electronic power steering in the GS300 and 300 AWD isn't as sophisticated as the setup in the 430, but its responses are more uniform, and path accuracy is acceptable.
All told, the GS300 AWD provides a driving experience that's exactly what we've come to expect from Lexus: creamy, competent, and quiet, augmented by beautiful interior appointments and celestial sound. None of that adds up to passion, at least to us. But for most prospective buyers, that won't matter.
Lexus GS300
Vehicle type: front-engine, rear- or 4-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door sedan
Base price: $43,550-$45,500
Engine type: DOHC 24-valve V-6, aluminum block and heads, direct fuel injection
Displacement: 183 cu in, 2994cc
Power (SAE net): 245 bhp @ 6200 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 230 lb-ft @ 3600 rpm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Transmission: 6-speed automatic with manumatic shifting
Wheelbase: 112.2 in
Length/width/height: 190.0/71.7/56.1-56.5 in
Curb weight: 3550-3750 lb
Performance ratings (mfr's est):
Zero to 60 mph: 6.8-6.9 sec
Standing 1/4-mile: 15.4-15.5 sec
Top speed (governor limited): 130-143 mph
Projected fuel economy (mfr's est):
EPA city driving: 21-22 mpg
EPA highway driving: 27-30 mpg
Chief engineer Shigetoshi Miyoshi invoked the "p" word—"passion"—frequently in his preview presentation for the third-generation Lexus GS series, but after a short day of mountain-road driving around Palm Springs, we're not convinced it's the word that really captures the essence of these new sedans.
How about "sophisticated"? Hard to dispute that as a descriptor. The inventory of electromechanical enhancements—VVT-i, AVS, EPS, VGRS, EBD, TPM, AFS, VDIM—rivals the alphabetical agencies of the Roosevelt administration. These babies—the GS300 and the GS430—are nothing if not trick. Particularly the GS430.
Stylish would also seem to apply. So would smooth, quiet, tasteful, and hedonistic. But even though the GS430 is, according to division manager Denny Clements, "the fastest Lexus ever built," it doesn't seem to be the kind of car we associate with red mist and seeking out the long way home. As luxoid sports sedans go, its message seems more attuned to the cerebrum than to the viscera.
We'll see the GS430 in more detail next month. For this report, we'll cover the GS300, which is offered in rear- and all-wheel drive, a first for a Lexus passenger car, and thus our focus here.
So let's examine what Lexus hath wrought. The last GS makeover was for the 1998 model year, which is ancient in terms of design shelf life today. So it's good that the new GS really is new—new body shell, new styling, new technology, new just about everything, with the exception of the GS430's 4.3-liter V-8, which is shared with the flagship LS430 sedan. The new GS is a slightly bigger car than the previous version, although the biggest dimensional change—a 2.0-inch wheelbase stretch, to 112.2 inches—is hard to see, as is the wider (by 1.2 inches) rear track. The beam has broadened from 70.9 inches to 71.7, and overall length has increased fractionally, from 189.2 to 190.0 inches. The roofline has come up slightly, from 55.9 to 56.1 inches (56.5 for the all-wheel-drive model), and Lexus is attempting to make a virtue of increased front overhang, which allows a "simpler, rounder, and more sculpted profile," according to Miyoshi.
Another distinct break with this car's Giugiaro-inspired past is a distinctly higher beltline, which, again quoting Miyoshi, "is more stylish, more formal, and conveys a more serious presence." The net result, says Lexus, is "a major departure from the norm," which works—provided your GS isn't parked next to a new Mercedes CLS.
Operating full time, the GS300's all-wheel-drive system features a planetary gearset and a wet, multidisc clutch to couple the primary drive wheels, at the rear, to the front. The standard torque split is 30/70 front to rear, but the system's electronic brain can vary that to 50/50, making its judgments on the basis of various driver inputs such as throttle angle and steering angle, plus vehicle data such as wheel speed and yaw rate. An interesting element of the AWD package is that it includes all-season run-flat tires (225/50-17), which Lexus vaguely cites as a weight-saving measure, since it eliminates the spare. Even so, the AWD GS300 outweighs the basic rear-drive version by about 200 pounds. That's not as bad as it sounds, since the standard version, at about 3550 pounds, is claimed to be roughly 100 pounds lighter than the previous GS300.
This improvement is largely attributable to the car's all-new 3.0-liter DOHC 24-valve aluminum V-6, which replaces an iron-block straight-six of identical displacement. With Toyota's VVT-i variable-valve-timing system operating on both cams, plus direct injection, plus a formidable 11.5:1 compression ratio, the new six generates 245 horsepower and 230 pound-feet of torque, compared with 220 of each for its predecessor. The new V-6 is bolted to an equally new six-speed automatic transmission, featuring manumatic shifting and an electronic brain that does a good job of avoiding excessive hunting, particularly in uphill runs.
couple other noteworthy features before we hit the road. The comprehensive airbag inventory includes a pair of bags dedicated to knee preservation for the driver and front passenger. There's also a new optional "pre-collision system" that uses adaptive cruise-control radar to evaluate closing speeds and decide whether collision is imminent, in which case it cinches seatbelts and preinitializes the brake system for quicker response. Unusual touches: A small bin flips down from the lower left side of the dash to provide access to infrequently used controls, such as side-mirror adjustments, and the glass covering the instrument cluster varies its transparency to reduce glare.
Now for a little behind-the-wheel. The new six pulls smoothly and quietly, with more authority than we recall from the previous six. Lexus claims 0 to 60 in 6.9 seconds for the AWD version, which seems reasonable, although at higher altitudes it was clear there wasn't a lot of unused power for tight passing situations. We were impressed with the car's roll stiffness—cornering attitudes were gratifyingly level—as well as the grip delivered by the run-flats (Dunlops, in this case, although other brands are used, too). The electronic power steering in the GS300 and 300 AWD isn't as sophisticated as the setup in the 430, but its responses are more uniform, and path accuracy is acceptable.
All told, the GS300 AWD provides a driving experience that's exactly what we've come to expect from Lexus: creamy, competent, and quiet, augmented by beautiful interior appointments and celestial sound. None of that adds up to passion, at least to us. But for most prospective buyers, that won't matter.
Lexus GS300
Vehicle type: front-engine, rear- or 4-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door sedan
Base price: $43,550-$45,500
Engine type: DOHC 24-valve V-6, aluminum block and heads, direct fuel injection
Displacement: 183 cu in, 2994cc
Power (SAE net): 245 bhp @ 6200 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 230 lb-ft @ 3600 rpm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Transmission: 6-speed automatic with manumatic shifting
Wheelbase: 112.2 in
Length/width/height: 190.0/71.7/56.1-56.5 in
Curb weight: 3550-3750 lb
Performance ratings (mfr's est):
Zero to 60 mph: 6.8-6.9 sec
Standing 1/4-mile: 15.4-15.5 sec
Top speed (governor limited): 130-143 mph
Projected fuel economy (mfr's est):
EPA city driving: 21-22 mpg
EPA highway driving: 27-30 mpg
03-22-2005, 05:57 PM
#402
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Source of below: magneto112's post here
In May 2006:
GS450Hybrid will have a V6 hybrid engine, but be faster than the GS430.
In September 2006:
'07GS350 will have the updated engine, but same body style.
In September 2006:
'07 GS460 will have an updated engine.
GS450Hybrid will have a V6 hybrid engine, but be faster than the GS430.
In September 2006:
'07GS350 will have the updated engine, but same body style.
In September 2006:
'07 GS460 will have an updated engine.
03-22-2005, 06:29 PM
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About the 300+HP engine in the GS and IS let me remind everyone of this thread which is 12 months old almost
03-23-2005, 12:25 AM
#404
Race Director
Lexus already said it will follow the BMW way of rolling out cars - update them often. Sticking the available 3.5l V6 in the GS next year is a no brainer - the GS350 will be out in Japan in a couple of months.
To keep up the 2K/mo selling rate Lexus will have to keep offering goodies all the time. Otherwise the car will end up like the last gen and after a couple of years sell like 500/mo with discounts.
To keep up the 2K/mo selling rate Lexus will have to keep offering goodies all the time. Otherwise the car will end up like the last gen and after a couple of years sell like 500/mo with discounts.
03-23-2005, 11:30 AM
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Lexus Unveils Second Ground-Breaking Hybrid Luxury Vehicle at New York International Auto Show - - Source: Toyota.com
03/23/2005 New York
The world's first gas/electric hybrid-powered luxury SUV, the RX 400h, goes on-sale in less than a month. Today, at a press conference at the New York Auto Show, Lexus unveiled yet another ground-breaking hybrid vehicle. The 2007 Lexus GS 450h is the world's first hybrid luxury sedan and the first full hybrid vehicle with a front engine and rear wheel drive.
"Once again, we've applied our formula of no compromise engineering - this time to a luxury sport sedan which proves to us that hybrid power trains can work superbly in virtually any application," said Lexus Vice President of Marketing Mark Templin. "It's very important to continue pursuing substantial reductions in fuel consumption and emissions, while continuing to improve performance and driving pleasure. Our customers wouldn’t have it any other way."
A completely new Lexus Hybrid powertrain was created to power the new 450h. The system combines a 3.5-liter V6 engine with a high-output, permanent magnet electric motor—all driving the rear wheels. Combined power output will be well in excess of 300 horsepower, with zero-to-60 acceleration in less than six seconds.
Even more impressive is how quickly and powerfully torque is delivered during mid-range acceleration. The syst***s massive electric motor is capable of delivering maximum torque, immediately upon demand. This unique power delivery characteristic is most noticeable...and most useful...during 30-to-50 passing and merging maneuvers. It is an experience that must be felt to be fully appreciated. The result is a level of acceleration performance similar to a V-8 engine, with combined fuel economy in the high twenties, a level more typical of a 2.0-liter four-cylinder compact sedan, along with one of the best EPA emissions ratings in the industry.
Based closely on the new GS luxury sport sedans, the GS 450h is designed to be the premium model in the GS series, with all of the performance, luxury and safety features befitting a flagship. Many of the optional features from the GS 300 and 430 will be standard on the GS 450h.
There are subtle visual differences like special 18-inch light-alloy wheels and a new power meter that replaces the tachometer. But the new GS 450h is designed to operate like any other Lexus vehicle such that the hybrid experience feels completely normal and seamless, all while delivering a surprising new level of performance and efficiency.
The Lexus GS 450h is targeted for sale beginning in the spring of 2006.
__________________
The world's first gas/electric hybrid-powered luxury SUV, the RX 400h, goes on-sale in less than a month. Today, at a press conference at the New York Auto Show, Lexus unveiled yet another ground-breaking hybrid vehicle. The 2007 Lexus GS 450h is the world's first hybrid luxury sedan and the first full hybrid vehicle with a front engine and rear wheel drive.
"Once again, we've applied our formula of no compromise engineering - this time to a luxury sport sedan which proves to us that hybrid power trains can work superbly in virtually any application," said Lexus Vice President of Marketing Mark Templin. "It's very important to continue pursuing substantial reductions in fuel consumption and emissions, while continuing to improve performance and driving pleasure. Our customers wouldn’t have it any other way."
A completely new Lexus Hybrid powertrain was created to power the new 450h. The system combines a 3.5-liter V6 engine with a high-output, permanent magnet electric motor—all driving the rear wheels. Combined power output will be well in excess of 300 horsepower, with zero-to-60 acceleration in less than six seconds.
Even more impressive is how quickly and powerfully torque is delivered during mid-range acceleration. The syst***s massive electric motor is capable of delivering maximum torque, immediately upon demand. This unique power delivery characteristic is most noticeable...and most useful...during 30-to-50 passing and merging maneuvers. It is an experience that must be felt to be fully appreciated. The result is a level of acceleration performance similar to a V-8 engine, with combined fuel economy in the high twenties, a level more typical of a 2.0-liter four-cylinder compact sedan, along with one of the best EPA emissions ratings in the industry.
Based closely on the new GS luxury sport sedans, the GS 450h is designed to be the premium model in the GS series, with all of the performance, luxury and safety features befitting a flagship. Many of the optional features from the GS 300 and 430 will be standard on the GS 450h.
There are subtle visual differences like special 18-inch light-alloy wheels and a new power meter that replaces the tachometer. But the new GS 450h is designed to operate like any other Lexus vehicle such that the hybrid experience feels completely normal and seamless, all while delivering a surprising new level of performance and efficiency.
The Lexus GS 450h is targeted for sale beginning in the spring of 2006.
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03-23-2005, 11:30 AM
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Lexus Unveils Second Ground-Breaking Hybrid Luxury Vehicle at New York International Auto Show - - Source: Toyota.com
2007 GS 450h
Wheelbase (inches)
112.2
Length (inches)
190.0
Width (inches)
71.7
Height (inches)
56.1
Engine / Electric Drive Motor
3.5-liter V6 engine / permanent magnet electric motor
Horsepower
Equivalent to 4.5-liter V8 engine
300
Drive Wheels
Rear
0-60 mph (mfr. results)
Under 6 seconds
*Fuel Economy (city/highway)
Similar to the average 2-liter, 4-cyl. compact sedan
18/25
Emissions Rating
**SULEV
2007 GS 450h
Wheelbase (inches)
112.2
Length (inches)
190.0
Width (inches)
71.7
Height (inches)
56.1
Engine / Electric Drive Motor
3.5-liter V6 engine / permanent magnet electric motor
Horsepower
Equivalent to 4.5-liter V8 engine
300
Drive Wheels
Rear
0-60 mph (mfr. results)
Under 6 seconds
*Fuel Economy (city/highway)
Similar to the average 2-liter, 4-cyl. compact sedan
18/25
Emissions Rating
**SULEV
03-23-2005, 12:15 PM
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03-23-2005, 12:22 PM
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Nicely done, but I was expecting more power. Maybe it's a lot more than 300HP. Let' see.
Specifically, I was expecting low 5s in the 0-60 run.
Specifically, I was expecting low 5s in the 0-60 run.
03-23-2005, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by cob3683
Then they will always play 2nd fiddle to MB 
03-23-2005, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by AsianRage
I love how clean the engine bay look minus the orange wires.
03-23-2005, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
Nicely done, but I was expecting more power. Maybe it's a lot more than 300HP. Let' see.
Specifically, I was expecting low 5s in the 0-60 run.
Specifically, I was expecting low 5s in the 0-60 run.
03-23-2005, 08:55 PM
#415
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Originally Posted by Python2121
meh, concidering its only 2 sheets of plastic covering everything up, its not that impressive. i wonder what it looks like under those...
03-23-2005, 10:04 PM
#416
Originally Posted by magneto112
03-24-2005, 11:54 AM
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2007 Lexus GS 450h - - Source: Autoweek
A Lexus Hybrid powertrain system for the GS 450h combines a 3.5-liter V6 engine with a high-output, permanent magnet electric motor-all driving the rear wheels. Combined power output will be well in excess of 300 horsepower, with zero-to-60 acceleration in less than six seconds.
03-24-2005, 11:58 AM
#418
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*Fuel Economy (city/highway)
Similar to the average 2-liter, 4-cyl. compact sedan
18/25
Similar to the average 2-liter, 4-cyl. compact sedan
18/25
03-24-2005, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by domn
Doesn't the average 2L 4 cylinder compact sedan get alot better than 18/25?
Yes. I'd say closer to 22/30.
03-24-2005, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by LegendC
All Hybrids have those orange wires to notify emergency crews in the event of a wreck. Cutting one of those bad boys would not be good.
03-24-2005, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by domn
Doesn't the average 2L 4 cylinder compact sedan get alot better than 18/25?
That is the GS430 MPG. That particular info came from a chart that compared the GS430 and the GS450h. Thats how it converted over to regular format. Confusing I understand, I was too at first, but after looking at the chart you will understand it. I'll try to link it up later.
03-24-2005, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
Other then the wheels the 450h looks just like a reg GS. Is Lexus planning on the stealth look like Honda did with the Accord hybrid? I would think that if they wanted to go after the AMG and M crowd then having the visual looks inside and out would be standared fair. Or is Lexus being coy and not showing the final product right off the bat?
03-24-2005, 04:54 PM
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Could very much be a coy. They have more than a year to get everything right. Its all about marketing. Thats why you dont see specific numbers with the GS450h. They cant let everything out right now. It keeps the competition on edge, and the customers speculating. I always have to give it up to Toyota/Lexus for marketing, they sure are very good at it too.
Even though the GS450h will out perform the GS430, I dont think it will be marketed as the sport model. Rather just another high performance model. Dont forget the actual Sport line that they are thinking about making in the next few years. Lexus has a lot of tricks up its sleaves right now.
Even though the GS450h will out perform the GS430, I dont think it will be marketed as the sport model. Rather just another high performance model. Dont forget the actual Sport line that they are thinking about making in the next few years. Lexus has a lot of tricks up its sleaves right now.
03-24-2005, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
Yeah. There's probably deadly current running through those...right?
03-25-2005, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by heyitsme
The gs hybrid reminds me of the rx hybrid, kinda boring and most likely a lot more expensive.
I for one am glad for ANY hybrid making us less dependent on oil. This is an exceptional car that of course most people won't like (its not AMG or M or 600 hp this and that) but its socially responsible.
03-26-2005, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by jdone
Yeah, but we have a nice car to drive while the MB and BMW owners are hanging around the service dept. getting theirs fixed again.
If I had a choice of a Toyo...er, lexus with a GUARANTEE of no problems ever (which is hardly the case) or a BMW rigged to have at least a problem per week, I'd STILL take the BMW over the banker's and accountant's delight.
03-28-2005, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jdone
Well, how many electrons do you think it takes to move a 3500 pound car? More than enough to kill you and me both.
03-29-2005, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by machination
Yeah, that you do. A nice boring car with all the style, excitement, and capabilities of a Buick with no bragging rights other than this supposed reliability.
If I had a choice of a Toyo...er, lexus with a GUARANTEE of no problems ever (which is hardly the case) or a BMW rigged to have at least a problem per week, I'd STILL take the BMW over the banker's and accountant's delight.
If I had a choice of a Toyo...er, lexus with a GUARANTEE of no problems ever (which is hardly the case) or a BMW rigged to have at least a problem per week, I'd STILL take the BMW over the banker's and accountant's delight.
03-29-2005, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jdone
It was this wonderful experience that made me pick Acura and Lexus for my last two cars.
I will Never Ever set foot in another BMW dealership even for a half-price sale.
But I'll see your half-price BMW sale, and raise you a they-could-give-me-a-lexus-with-free-service-gas-and-insurance-and-I-still-wouldnt-set-foot-anywhere-near-one.
03-29-2005, 07:23 PM
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I looked at a GS300 at my local Lexus dealer. The impressions I left with were two things....Boring and Bland. I didn't drive the car, but I don't think it's my cup of tea. It seems like Lexus didn't step up to the plate in the sport sedan game.
03-30-2005, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Maximized
I looked at a GS300 at my local Lexus dealer. The impressions I left with were two things....Boring and Bland. I didn't drive the car, but I don't think it's my cup of tea. It seems like Lexus didn't step up to the plate in the sport sedan game.
I driven the new GS300 and you are correct in your guess. It is boring in the driving department. It's quiet and smooth riding unlike my TL which does a nice job of communicating what is going on between the tires and the road. And now that I've replaced my stock tires with Ultra-High Performance tires that are 245 instead of 235 has made a big difference.
03-30-2005, 04:17 PM
#434
Drifting
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Originally Posted by Maximized
It seems like Lexus didn't step up to the plate in the sport sedan game.
03-30-2005, 04:58 PM
#435
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Originally Posted by Precision Crafted
I driven the new GS300 and you are correct in your guess. It is boring in the driving department. It's quiet and smooth riding unlike my TL which does a nice job of communicating what is going on between the tires and the road. And now that I've replaced my stock tires with Ultra-High Performance tires that are 245 instead of 235 has made a big difference.
03-30-2005, 04:59 PM
#436
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Originally Posted by 03TL-S
I was also expecting more, but then again, its toyota....
i mean they managed to portray a 3200lb+ FWD 4 banger with no power anywhere and horrid brakes econobox elsewhere in the world as a premium sporty sedan
03-30-2005, 06:46 PM
#437
The Third Ball
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Originally Posted by gilboman
ya...too bad its not honda or they can put out FWD overweight cars and spin it as a sportsedan
i mean they managed to portray a 3200lb+ FWD 4 banger with no power anywhere and horrid brakes econobox elsewhere in the world as a premium sporty sedan
i mean they managed to portray a 3200lb+ FWD 4 banger with no power anywhere and horrid brakes econobox elsewhere in the world as a premium sporty sedan
Trolls can E.A.DEat A Dick
03-30-2005, 09:35 PM
#438
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Originally Posted by gilboman
ya...too bad its not honda or they can put out FWD overweight cars and spin it as a sportsedan
i mean they managed to portray a 3200lb+ FWD 4 banger with no power anywhere and horrid brakes econobox elsewhere in the world as a premium sporty sedan
i mean they managed to portray a 3200lb+ FWD 4 banger with no power anywhere and horrid brakes econobox elsewhere in the world as a premium sporty sedan
03-30-2005, 11:10 PM
#439
101 years of heartache...
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Originally Posted by DownUnder
What's even more sad is that the current IS300 with a 6cyl can barely edge out a TSX with a 4 banger and with "no power".
Replying to Gilbo's quote; funny how you say the TSX isn't a good package. Too bad Car & Driver, the best America has to offer in Automotive Journalism (unbiased, tests all areas, great history) thinks of the TSX as the best handling FWD car since the Integra Type-R. The TL is a Consumer Report's Top Pick, and the TSX is a C&D 10 Best for 2 years and has won MANY awards in MANY areas.
Another funny thing, the old IS lost value very fast. I wonder why. I also wonder why they completely ditched what it once was and made it a true 3-Series competator.
Lastly (for now), have you noticed that Toyota has always been ripping off other companies? Toyota doesn't have R&D, but rather S&S (search n' steal). Gilbo, I really don't understand who you're trying to hate on; there is evidence out there that supports the success of the TSX and TL including their performance. Although not the best in class, it is pretty darn good. Keep in mind, (it was either MT or R&T) rated the TL A-Spec better than the Volvo S40R.
Gilbo, there is plenty of evidence, so don't post immature replies. I agree that the TSX is overweight and the TL's FWD+Power= mucho torque steer, but say it with some respect. You don't see me ranting on how it's a shame Toyota is not leaving Honda and Nissan in the dust with all the resources Toyota has.
Here comes the "shut up stupid 17 year old" crap, but I'm sure there are respectful people on this site that will defend some of the obvious FACTS stated in this post.
03-31-2005, 05:26 AM
#440
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Originally Posted by gocubsgo55
Car & Driver, the best America has to offer in Automotive Journalism (unbiased, tests all areas, great history) thinks of the TSX as the best handling FWD car since the Integra Type-R. The TL is a Consumer Report's Top Pick, and the TSX is a C&D 10 Best for 2 years and has won MANY awards in MANY areas.
