Ineos: Grenadier News

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Old 06-09-2021, 04:14 PM
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Ineos: Grenadier News

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...-to-us-in-2023


Rugged, off-road-oriented SUVs like the Ford Bronco, Jeep Wrangler and Land Rover Defender may soon face competition from a formidable contender being developed by the newly minted automotive arm of British chemical giant Ineos.

We're talking about the Grenadier, a boxy, go-anywhere SUV modeled after the previous-generation Land Rover Defender and due to start production in 2022. From the onset of the vehicle's development, Ineos has insisted that sales in the United States are part of the plan, and now the company has hired former Jaguar Land Rover and Daimler marketing executive Greg Clark to help launch local sales.

In an interview with Automotive News (subscription required) published over the weekend, Clark said Ineos plans to start selling the Grenadier in the U.S. in early 2023. There's still a lot of work to do, he said, including finding a location for a U.S. headquarters and establishing a dealer network covering all 50 states.

As mentioned above, the Grenadier has been modeled after the previous-generation Defender, right down to using a body-on-frame platform. Even helping with the development is Austria's Magna Steyr, the same company that helped Mercedes-Benz develop the G-Class, another body-on-frame SUV. This should help set it apart from Land Rover's new Defender, which has switched to car-like unibody construction.

To keep things simple, Ineos plans just one powertrain for the U.S., a 3.0-liter turbocharged inline-6 sourced from BMW. It will be mated to an 8-speed automatic and four-wheel-drive system with a two-speed transfer case. A diesel will be offered in other markets.

Further down the track, a pickup body style and possibly even a hydrogen-electric powertrain may be offered.

As for pricing, Ineos plans to position the Grenadier above affordable off-roaders like the Bronco and Wrangler but below the luxury level of the G-Class. Automotive News posits a price range between $75,000 and $120,000. There will be numerous accessories available at the dealer level, including popular off-road gear like winches, roof racks, and extra lighting, as well as commercial-oriented items like power tools and shovels.

Production of the Grenadier will be handled at the former Smart plant in Hambach, France.







Old 06-09-2021, 04:15 PM
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Looks a bit too rugged/utilitarian for that price in the US market, IMO.
Doesn't have the lux look of the G-Wagen & looks less refined compared to the LR Defender.
Old 06-09-2021, 06:11 PM
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Coming out in 2023 with a body on frame design and ICE and a premium price tag ..... OMG........ .........

That company sure has some guts.

I’ll come back and read the rest later when I’ve finished laughing.
Old 06-09-2021, 06:29 PM
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What exactly is the point of a $75k-$120k SUV that's modelled after an ancient box? Especially because there are two very good similar (ancient box) options for half that price. It certainly looks cool but for $120k I'd just buy a G or a Range Rover.

For once I agree with Comfy, this is just stupid.
Old 06-10-2021, 08:45 AM
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At $40-60k, I could see it being a bit more realistic, but I agree, around $100k it's not going to be a hot seller.
Old 06-10-2021, 11:24 AM
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They made an objectively worse G Class and decided to charge the same amount for it
Old 07-07-2021, 01:28 PM
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https://www.motor1.com/news/518576/i...terior-photos/


Off-road enthusiasts are complaining the Land Rover Defender is now too luxurious and sophisticated, thus losing some of its utilitarian appeal and becoming out of reach due to a higher asking price. Ineos Automotive wants to pick up where the old Defender left off, featuring an oh-so-familiar boxy shape and true 4x4 capabilities.

Today, a little over a year after its debut, the Grenadier finally reveals its impressively rugged interior developed to be functional – nothing more and nothing less. It's a striking departure from modern body-on-frame SUVs, featuring chunky switchgear providing shortcuts to just about everything you need, without having to browse through several sub-menus in the touchscreen.

Much like the Ford Bronco, it gets pre-wired auxiliary switches used to connect winches, work lights, camping gear, and other accessories. It means the owner won't have to drill holes and rip off the headliner to jam in the wiring, knowing very well the cabin won't ever be the same. The switches are located in the overhead console where Ineos has also positioned the controls for the front/rear diff locks as well as the offroad mode.

Another feature it has in common with the Bronco is the ability to hose out the interior thanks to drain plugs in the rubber flooring and wipe-down seat upholstery of the stain-resistant Recaro seats. People looking for a bit more luxury will be able to get the Ineos with carpets and leather upholstery, but drivers who will be going off the beaten path will want the more durable interior.

Those central air vents may look like they were borrowed from a 1990s car, but the Grenadier is far from being outdated. It gets a 12.3-inch touchscreen infotainment with an iDrive-esque rotary knob along with both Apple CarPlay and Android Auto smartphone integration. That gear lever for the automatic transmission looks familiar because the SUV is powered by a BMW engine linked to a ZF eight-speed automatic transmission installed in many Bavarian cars.

With large grab handles on the A-pillar and dashboard, you know this wants to be a serious off-roader. The passenger version can accommodate five people while a two-seat commercial model is also in the works. Ineos has developed the Grenadier to accommodate an optional Power Pack featuring a 2,000-watt AC convertor to juice up electric tools and equipment. Speaking of features that cost extra, those nifty glass roof panels can tilt and you can also take them off completely.

As a refresher, the Grenadier will be powered by straight-six BMW gasoline and diesel engines and will feature permanent all-wheel drive with a two-speed transfer case and three differential locks (e-lockers for front and rear and mechanical for the center). The B58 gasoline engine will produce 281 horsepower and 450 Newton-meters (332 pound-feet) of torque while the B57 diesel is going to be rated at 245 hp and 550 Nm (406 lb-ft).

The ladder-frame SUV will ride on 17- and 18-inch steel and alloy wheels wrapped in bespoke Bridgestone All-Terrain or BF Goodrich All-Terrain tires. As for dimensions, the Grenadier is 4,927 mm (193.9 inches) long once you factor in the rear-mounted spare wheel, 1,930 mm (76 inches) wide with the mirrors included, and 2,033 mm (80 inches) tall, with a wheelbase measuring 2,922 mm (115 inches).

Ineos will begin to accept reservations in October and commence customer deliveries in July 2022. Meanwhile, 130 prototypes are undergoing testing all over the world, with the next location being the dunes of Morocco.









Old 07-07-2021, 01:31 PM
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Still not sure who the target market is for these. Not nearly as nice as its competitors on the high side & not cheap enough for its competitors on the lower side.
Old 09-29-2021, 10:38 AM
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https://www.carscoops.com/2021/09/in...uled-for-2023/


Ineos Automotive has released details about the introduction of the Grenadier, confirming that deliveries of the Land Rover Defender-inspired off-roader will commence in July 2022 in the UK.

​​​​​​​Ineos is working with Robert Bosch GmbH to help introduce the Grenadier and owners will have access to over 10,000 Bosch Car Service outlets across 150 countries to have their vehicles serviced and repaired.

In the UK, the Grenadier will start at approximately £48,000 ($65,000). The UK will be the first market where it launches and the company plans to establish 23 retail sites ahead of the launch. Ineos has also announced plans to introduce the Grenadier in other markets, including Europe, Africa, Asia Pacific, the Middle East, and North America.

Pricing details for markets outside the UK haven’t been announced. Ineos says the Grenadier will touch down in the summer of 2023 in North America.

“We wanted to give customers the choice of how much they wanted to see us, which means providing a full combination of digital and physical options,” Ineos Automotive commercial director Mark Tennant said. “Customer convenience, parts availability, service quality: we are focusing on getting the basics right, giving customers the buying experience they want and the aftersales support they need. If preferred, customers in most of our main markets will be able to buy their Grenadier online, including organizing vehicle finance and handling any part exchanges. But we fully accept that most will want to try before they buy, for which having an extensive network on the ground is essential.”

Ineos says 75,000 people have “raised their hands” as prospective buyers. These individuals will be able to place a build reservation from September 30 for an exclusive two-week period while from October 14, reservations will open to everyone.
Old 02-21-2022, 08:38 AM
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The Ineos Grenadier is inching toward production, with the company revealing this week the Hambach, France, plant is ready to manufacture the rugged 4x4, with production prototypes already rolling off the assembly line.

Ineos purchased the factory from Mercedes-Benz just over a year ago and reconfigured the plant in about 12 months for Grenadier assembly after investing 50 million euros in the refit.

Ineos says it is approaching the end of the first production try-out (PTO1) phase, during which it is building 130 examples of the SUV.

"The PTO2 phase starts in March to validate the assembly process and build quality, before production of launch series vehicles proves out the supply chain, logistics, and build rate," Ineos adds.

Separately, the company is lining up its sales and service operation, with over 100 partners around the world nominated so far. The company plans to announce Grenadier pricing in April, ahead of the planned start of production in July. April is also when the first European customers can finalize their orders with their local retailer or online.


The company plans to reveal full technical specs for the Grenadier in April as well, but a few preliminary details have already been published: One version of the SUV will use a turbocharged BMW straight-six engine, good for 280 hp and 330 lb-ft of torque, paired with an eight-speed automatic from ZF. This unit has been tuned to favor torque over horsepower, for better off-road performance. A straight-six diesel (also from BMW) will be on the menu as well elsewhere in the world, if not in the U.S.

"Some 15,000 customers worldwide have reserved their Grenadier," said Dirk Heilmann, CEO of Ineos Automotive. "We want to deliver a vehicle that’s ready, and we won’t cut corners. With the benefit of the highly skilled and experienced team at Hambach, as well as the expertise in safety and quality that we have employed, we are on target to begin series production in July."

U.S. pricing is slated to be revealed later in 2022 ahead of the SUV's expected arrival in the summer of 2023.

The Grenadier will land in a market in turmoil amid a dramatic contraction in vehicle supply prompted by pandemic-related pressures and at a time when many automakers are already transitioning to battery-electric models.

Ineos is contemplating alternative powertrains and is planning to experiment with hydrogen fuel cells. But with Land Rover and others preparing to field EVs in coming years, the Grenadier could soon be one of the last new gas- and diesel-engined models to arrive.

The Grenadier could pick up a large chunk of market share left by automakers that will be producing only battery-electric SUVs in a decade or so.
Ineos Grenadier SUV Factory Preps for Production Start (autoweek.com)
Old 10-19-2022, 05:55 AM
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Ineos kicked off R&D for the Grenadier back in 2017. Five years later, the London-based multinational company is much obliged to present us with the first series-production models of the Defender-inspired utility vehicle.
14 photos

“This is a landmark moment for Ineos Automotive as a vehicle manufacturer,” said Ineos Automotive commercial director Mark Tennant. “To get to this point is a testament to the resilience and hard work of the entire Ineos Automotive team, our development partners, and suppliers – for which we thank them all as we now look forward to our first customer deliveries.”

Manufactured in Hambach at smart’s former assembly complex. The Grenadier is backed up by more than 200 sales and service locations worldwide. Customer deliveries are scheduled to begin this December.

A serious off-road machine based on a ladder chassis with beam axles, the Grenadier features progressive-rate coil springs fore and aft, six-cylinder turbo gasoline and turbo diesel powerplants, and the ZF 8HP eight-speed automatic we all know and love from BMW and many other carmakers. The powerplants in question are BMW's B58 straight-six turbo gasser and B57 turbo diesel, both of them 3.0 liters with aluminum-alloy blocks and heads.

Two styles are currently available to order, namely the two-seat Utility Wagon and the five-seat Station Wagon. Priced at £49,000 and £52,000 in the United Kingdom, the Grenadier is offered exclusively with five seats in the United States. Unfortunately, for prospective customers, pricing for this part of the world isn’t available at press time. The aforementioned starting prices for the UK convert to $55,460 and $58,860 at current exchange rates.

Ineos also lists a double-cab pickup, which is due to arrive sometime in 2023 as a 2024 model. A three-row version with seating for seven of the Station Wagon is under consideration, but only time will tell if this family-oriented configuration of the no-nonsense overlander comes to fruition.
The Ineos Grenadier Finally Begins Production (autoevolution.com)
Old 05-18-2023, 04:38 PM
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https://carbuzz.com/news/us-bound-in...-at-just-71500


Pricing for the Ineos Grenadier has finally been confirmed. The utilitarian yet premium off-roader will start at $71,500 in the US, while two other "preconfigured" models, called the Trialmaster Edition and Fieldmaster Edition, start at a smidge under $80,000.

The base Ineos Grenadier is deliberately spartan. Ineos describes it as a "blank canvas ready to be configured for the exact needs of customers," making it the closest in concept to the original Land Rover Defender.

It has a six-cylinder BMW engine, box section ladder-frame chassis, permanent four-wheel-drive, solid beam axles, and up to three locking differentials.

The Trialmaster Edition is oriented towards more extreme off-roading and is named after a jacket from Ineos' existing outdoor clothing company, Belstaff.

Ineos said the jacket was "created in 1948 at the request of professional Trials biker and Irishman Sammy Miller, and was designed to cope with the grueling conditions of the Scottish Six Days Trial."

The Trialmaster is beefed up for off-road activity with features like electronically activated front and rear differential locks and BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A KO2 tires.

The Grenadier Fieldmaster Edition is named after another outdoor jacket. The Fieldmaster coat is a cross between a motorcycle jacket but longer and made from waxed cotton. Selling for $595.00, the Grenadier Fieldmaster Edition is a more cultured adventure vehicle with safari windows, a leather interior, carpet floor mats, and heated front seats. In its press release, Ineos mentions towing a horse box, which sounds about right.

Pre-ordering opens on May 31 for US and Canadian customers, and the price points make the Grenadier an exciting prospect. Ineos promises retail stores and servicing but has designed the Grenadier to be easy to work on. It also provides 3D interactive manuals online for those wanting to work on their own vehicles. That's an exciting and even rebellious proposition in a world where cars are becoming increasingly complex and more complicated to maintain in a home garage.

The electric Grenadier will be launched in 2026, and while it hasn't been confirmed for the USA, it would make a nice rival for the Rivian R1T.
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Old 05-18-2023, 05:23 PM
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Thing looks amazing. That bicycle toot horn is just class.
Old 05-19-2023, 08:03 AM
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It'll be interesting to see how well it sells, with how spartan it is, at that price point.
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Old 05-19-2023, 04:41 PM
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It looks awesome but this is way too expensive for what it is. This should definitely be priced at about the Wrangler/Bronco price point, not this high. Also the $72k is the STARTING price which means you need to pay a lot more to get the good stuff anyway.
Old 05-21-2023, 06:27 AM
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I can understand the retro concept, but why they didn't give a modern twist to the design itself? This already looks like a dated vehicle from the 90s. Why would anyone want to spend a fortune on that? Not even going into the powertrain at all right now. Good luck is all I can say.
Old 07-13-2023, 02:53 PM
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https://www.motor1.com/news/676677/i...-reveal-specs/


While the Land Rover Defender truck is an on-again, off-again affair, Ineos Automotive talks less and does more. Meet the Quartermaster, a pickup version of the Grenadier SUV from which it has inherited its rugged and boxy looks. Debuting today at the Goodwood Festival of Speed, the utilitarian vehicle has been engineered as a double cab with seating for five. The ute was developed alongside the SUV, so the two models share most of the hardware.

The body-on-frame pickup has been stretched by 305 millimeters (12 inches) compared to the SUV to fit the bed, which has a maximum payload capacity of 760 kilograms (1,675 pounds). The load bay measures 1564 mm (61.5 in) long and 1619 mm (63.7 in) wide, meaning it can easily accommodate a standard Euro pallet. Measuring 1280 mm (50.3 in) wide, the tailgate can take up to 225 kg (496 lbs) when open. Much like the regular Grenadier, the Quartermaster boasts a towing capacity of 3,500 kg (7,716 lbs).

Customers will be able to pick from the familiar BMW inline-six engines, either the B58 or the B57. The former is a 3.0-liter gasoline mill with 282 horsepower (210 kilowatts) and 450 Newton-meters of torque (331 pound-feet) while the latter is a 3.0-liter diesel rated at 245 hp (183 kW) and 550 Nm (404 lb-ft). Both engines enable the Grenadier Quartermaster to hit a top speed of 99 mph (159 km/h) after reaching 62 mph (100 km/h) in 8.8 seconds in the case of the gas model while the diesel is a full second slower, at 9.8 seconds.

The pickup hasn't lost the SUV’s off-road chops as you get a center differential lock and a two-speed transfer case as standard equipment. At an additional cost, the Grenadier Quartermaster can be optionally equipped with front and rear differential locks. Mirroring the standard model, the truck has Carraro solid beam axles and Brembo brakes.

Ineos Automotive touts a generous ground clearance of 264 mm (10.4 in) and an 800 mm (31.5 in) wading depth while the approach, departure, and breakover angles are said to be segment-leading. As with the SUV, an eight-speed automatic transmission supplied by ZF channels power to a permanent 4x4 system. The wheels come in 17- and 18-inch sizes with 265/70 R17 and 255/70 R18 tires, respectively.

The truck can already be ordered in the UK and Ineos Automotive says the Quartermaster will echo the SUV's trim levels: Standard, Trialmaster, and Fieldmaster. Several accessories have been developed, including a roof rack, a lockable roller tonneau cover, a waterproof canvas canopy, and a frame for the bed where there are four tie-down rings.
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Old 12-20-2023, 10:42 AM
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The first U.S.-specification Ineos Grenadier off-road SUV—a Fieldmaster Edition in Scottish White—rolled off the production line at the old Mercedes-Smart factory in Hambach, France, in September, and American customers eagerly awaiting the arrival of the rugged 4x4 have begun to take delivery of their vehicles. Canadian customers will start receiving their Grenadiers in January 2024, so just around the corner. More than 7,600 orders have been placed in the US for the 2024 Grenadier since its launch, making it the biggest market in the world for the body-on-frame off-roader.

Greg Clark, executive vice president Americas for INEOS Automotive believes North America could ultimately account for 40 to 45 percent of Grenadier production. Operating on a two-shift basis,
the Hambach plant can currently build a total of 34,000 Grenadiers a year. The delay between the Grenadier's global launch at the beginning of 2023 and its arrival Stateside has been because of the need to homologate the advanced driver assistance systems (ADAS) required for the North American market. All Grenadiers now come standard with lane departure warning and automatic emergency braking, plus the ability to warn you if you're driving over the speed limit or appear to be getting drowsy.

That might keep NHTSA happy, but not all American Grenadier customers are enamored of the execution of the ADAS interface. One from Nashville, Tennessee, who took delivery of a Grenadier at the end of November, complained on an Ineos forum about the constant warnings from the system: "The amount of beeping in this vehicle is beyond anything I've ever experienced other than an ICU room in a hospital." What made it worse, the owner said, was the only way they could be silenced was by going deep into the user interface menu to switch them off. And the process had to be repeated every time the vehicle was started.

We drove the Grenadier through the wilds of Scotland earlier this year. But just as the first American customers were being handed the keys to their vehicles, we were given the opportunity to sample it again, this time in the genteel surroundings of the English countryside just south of London. All vehicles were right-hand drive, pre-ADAS units, so we didn't have to deal with a cacophony of beeps whenever we did something the nannies didn't like. We spent our time on- and off-road in the gas-engine Fieldmaster Edition. The diesel-powered Grenadier is not available in North America, and the $79,190 (excluding destination) Fieldmaster Edition is so far proving the most popular choice for U.S. buyers.

There are three versions of the four-door Grenadier wagon that are available in the U.S. The entry level model, priced at $71,500 (excluding destination), comes standard with a center diff-lock, front and rear skid plates, a full-size spare wheel, Recaro seats, LED headlights, and Off-Road and Wading drive modes. U.S. versions also come equipped with what Ineos calls the "Smooth Pack," which adds, among other things, front park assist, heated exterior mirrors and windshield washer jets, and a lockable stowage box between the front seats.

The Fieldmaster Edition replaces the entry level model's 17-inch steel wheels with 18-inch alloys and upsizes the standard Bridgestone All-Terrain tires from 265/70 R17 to 255/70 R18. Opting for the Fieldmaster specification also adds leather trim, heated front seats, carpet on the floor, a compass and altimeter function in the digital screen at the center of the dash, and a roof access ladder. The Fieldmaster also comes equipped with the Smooth Pack.

The Grenadier Trialmaster is the same price as the Fieldmaster but is optimized for off-road use. It therefore rolls on 17-inch steel wheels fitted with chunky 265/70 R17 BF Goodrich All-Terrain T/A KO2 tires and comes equipped with front and rear diff locks. Other standard goodies include a raised air intake, the innovative "utility belt" that allows various accessories to be clipped to the exterior of the vehicle, an auxiliary battery, and a high load auxiliary switch panel that allows overlanders to connect various electrical devices. Like the others, it also comes equipped with the Smooth Pack.

All North American market Grenadiers are powered by a version of BMW's 3.0-liter B58 turbocharged gas inline six that's been calibrated to produce 282 horsepower at 4,750 rpm and 332 lb-ft of torque from 1,750 rpm to 4,000 rpm. The engine drives all four wheels through a ZF 8HP51 eight-speed automatic transmission and a two-speed Tremec transfer case.

The base wagon tips the scales at a claimed 5,875 pounds. That's a hefty 1,150-pounds more than a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon, and one reason the Grenadier is at least 0.6 seconds slower to 60 mph than the Jeep, despite having two more cylinders, 12 more horsepower and 37 lb-ft more under the hood. The mass—and barn door aerodynamics—are also why the Grenadier's claimed top speed is just 99 mph. It's hardly surprising, then, that the Grenadier Fieldmaster proceeds down the road with the studied grace of a battleship.

Though the 3.0-liter straight six and ZF automatic are as smooth and slick as they are in any BMW, rolling acceleration response feels somewhat leisurely at times. We suspect BMW's B57 straight six turbodiesel, which makes 245 hp from 3,250 rpm to 4,200 rpm, but has 406 lb-ft of torque from 1,250 rpm to 3,000 rpm, might make the Grenadier feel a little more energetic on the road. And it would certainly deliver better fuel economy than the EPA-certified 14-15 MPG combined achieved by the gas-engine Grenadier.

The coil-sprung live axles front and rear and the low-geared steering—at four turns lock-to-lock it's optimized for hard-core off-roading—mean driving the Grenadier on winding blacktop requires a little more forethought than road-focused SUVs that have been tuned to tackle nothing more demanding than a potholed parking lot and a couple of inches of snow. The on-road ride is good, however, the body motions well controlled, and the high sidewall tires soaking up the potholes that litter England's crumbling two-lanes.

For the wet and muddy off-road course, we switched to a Fieldmaster Edition equipped with the $2,850 Rough Pack, which adds the front and rear diff locks that are standard on the Trialmaster Edition, as well as the BF Goodrich KO2 tires on 17-inch alloy rims. In low range, with the diffs locked, it shrugged off the slush and goo and water and ruts, tackling the sodden terrain with easy confidence. The ride off-road is comfortable, with relatively little head-toss or jolting, courtesy of the variable rate Eibach coil springs and massive shock absorbers.

At 193.9 inches, including rear-mounted spare wheel, the Grenadier is 5.5 inches longer, 2.2 inches wider, and 6.4 inches taller than the Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon. Its 115-inch wheelbase is 3.4 inches shorter than that of the Jeep, however. In Rubicon trim, the Jeep has better approach and departure angles—43.9 degrees vs 35.5 degrees and 37.0 degrees vs 36.1 degrees, respectively. But the Grenadier's shorter wheelbase means its 28.2-degree breakover angle bests the Wrangler's 22.6 degrees. Ground clearance is 10.4 inches, just 0.4 inches shy of the Unlimited Rubicon, and it will wade through water 31.5 inches deep without the optional snorkel fitted.

As serious off-roaders go, the Grenadier is the real deal. And the Fieldmaster Edition with the Rough Pack offers the best combination of comfort and capability. If more capability is needed the Fieldmaster, like the rest of the Grenadier line up, can be ordered from the factory with a host of serious off-road accessories such as rock sliders ($1,650), front and rear winches ($4,085 and $3,265) and a heavy-duty roof rack ($2,000), as well as all manner of towing hardware.

It's not perfect, though. The interior ergonomics are, frankly, a mess. The plethora of switches and knobs on the center stack and roof console look like something out of an old-school B52 bomber cockpit. The retro-tech vibe might impress your boomer buddies, but you almost need flight training to find the front and rear differential lock buttons (in case you're wondering, they are on the roof console, near the interior light switches).

There's no instrument panel behind the Grenadier's two-spoke steering wheel, just a small screen inset into the dash that shows all the major warning lights. The speedo, tach and other readouts are on a configurable screen in the center of the dash. Different display configurations and functions are actuated via a rotary controller on the center console. Some have criticized the setup, but it's essentially no different to what Tesla does, and mimics the layout of the old pre-Defender Land Rovers that inspired billionaire British businessman Jim Ratcliffe to build the Grenadier.

Ironically, today's Land Rover Defender, with its height adjustable independent suspension and electronically controlled drive modes, represents the cutting edge of 21st century off-roading. It's extremely capable off-road, bested, perhaps, only by the forthcoming electric-powered Mercedes-Benz G-Class, whose four e-motors deliver ultra-precise torque control at the wheel in extreme conditions.

But the Defender's heavy reliance on computers to make everything work worry those who regularly drive long distances through remote, rough, and inhospitable terrain in Africa, the Middle East, and Australia. In those environments, where off-roading is not a lifestyle choice, Toyota's Land Cruiser is the gold standard; it's the 4x4 that will almost certainly get you there. And more importantly, get you back again. The Ineos Grenadier might look like an old Defender, but it feels more like a Toyota Land Cruiser, both on and off the road. And that's a good thing.
Old 12-20-2023, 10:51 AM
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Grenadier: 3.0 T6 282/332 $72-80k base
Defender: 2.0 T4 296/295 $61-112k base 4cyl-V8
Defender: 3.0 T6 395/406
Defender: 5.0 V8 518/461
Wrangler: 2.0 T4 270/295 $37-62k base
Wrangler: 3.6 V6 285/260
G-Wagen: 4.0 TTV8 416/450 $140k base
G-Wagen AMG: 4.0 TTV8 577/627 $180k base
Old 12-20-2023, 11:08 AM
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The G Wagen is in a whole different tax bracket but I still fail to see the point of this thing over a Wrangler of any kind...

The new Defender, while capable off road, is nowhere near as good as a Wrangler is.
Old 12-20-2023, 11:13 AM
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very interesting. Looks like a serious competitor. I love competition. I am not a big fan of Motor Trend and wait for a Car & Driver review if not already done..Should be great for Colorado/Montana excursions.
Old 12-20-2023, 11:18 AM
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Considering all but the 392 Wrangler are cheaper than the base Ineos...I'd likely have a loaded up JLUR, especially the new facelifted model, which I think is an improvement in the looks dept.
Kinda surprised they aren't pushing more power out of the BMW engine, too.
Old 12-20-2023, 09:34 PM
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Any thoughts about how long this company is going to last?
Old 12-21-2023, 06:39 AM
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If the soccer moms & 'don't want a Jeep but have $80k to burn' bros start buying them up, they'll be fine

IMO, if they could've gotten it closer to mid50-60k, it'd be an easier sell. This thing does seem mighty spartan for what you're spending.
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Old 12-21-2023, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by 00TL-P3.2
If the soccer moms & 'don't want a Jeep but have $80k to burn' bros start buying them up, they'll be fine

IMO, if they could've gotten it closer to mid50-60k, it'd be an easier sell. This thing does seem mighty spartan for what you're spending.
They won't. Those people are in Range Rovers, Defenders, Tahoes, or Suburbans. They don't want what looks like a kit car.
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Old 12-21-2023, 08:53 AM
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That's my biggest knock on it. For what it costs, there's better options for the off-road crowd & for the soccer moms....
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Old 07-11-2024, 08:28 AM
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This thing is quite large



Old 07-11-2024, 09:14 AM
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I've seen a handful of them out there on the road and really like them a lot...but not at that price point. Also, who knows how long the company will last. They'll probably get bought up by someone at some point to be honest since they actually have a good product unlike Fisker.
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