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95% of people buying any of these cars are not pushing them to any where near the limits that makes their differences in handling really matter in a vs. scenario. Lets all be honest about that.
I switch to the paddles and go into twists pretty hard with my Durango...and I'll dust most of the drivers in any of those cars because they are too scared to even know or test the limits of what their vehicles can do, not that in any way shape or form my giant ass heavy as balls SUV is a true carver of any sort.
my first car was a 1997 prelude base 5-speed. Being my first car, it holds a special place.
I learned how to drive manual on this car
Got into autocrossing and enjoyed 5 seasons of it.
Modded it, and in general learned through DIY how to do basic automotive work,
If this new prelude turns out to be a good driver oriented car I would seriously consider getting one to keep the prelude ownership going into the next phase lol.
I have my eye on used lotus elise sc or exiges at the moment, lets see in the next year or so.
I don't see many Honda products short of a 2g S2k & the NSX being on competitive terms with an Elise/Exige.....
I don't see many Honda products short of a 2g S2k & the NSX being on competitive terms with an Elise/Exige.....
Give me a 3rd gen Dude with 4WS and an autocross course. I'd be interested to see how it does. Granted the Elise/Exige is a straight up go cart...ridden in a couple of them...one was supercharged...
this is what happens when stupid people post. my nismo is the heaviest 370, and it comes in at 3350. Other trims are 100 pounds lighter. The 1LE comes in at 3750. That's at least 400 pounds more. And it's much more than just curb weight. But thanks for playing.
Give me a 3rd gen Dude with 4WS and an autocross course. I'd be interested to see how it does. Granted the Elise/Exige is a straight up go cart...ridden in a couple of them...one was supercharged...
I've ridden in a few & got a chance to take a short drive in a base 07 Elise with the Touring Pack. Miata on steroids. Would love to have one.
Granted, a 'lude would likely be cheaper/easier to maintain, I don't see it even being close in performance/handling, stock v stock.
Um yeah, if you want to go fast in a straight line, go ahead. Yes the mustang and Camaro are infinitely better in terms of handling then they once were, but they're still heavy and big fucking cars.
Not every American wants an American muscle car. That's just a huge generalization.
Again, the reason the 86, BRZ and 370 are selling poorly is because everyone of them is at the end of their life cycle. The 370 is 8 fucking years old. The others are hitting 5 years. Show me one moderateley priced car that sells great at that age.
Overall, miata sales were up 17%. But ita fairly new still. It appears it doesn't sell anywhere near the numbers the American cars do, but has it ever? And if you want to drive the same car everyone else does, yeah, there's American muscle. Seriously, I can't throw a stone in any direction without hitting a half dozen mustangs.
The 2015 Mustang was just as fast around a racetrack as an E92 M3. Would you agree that the M3 is also a really heavy and big fucking car or is it considered the benchmark for handling? I'm guessing an ecoboost Mustang would probably eat an 86, brz, and 370z for every meal on a real track. Autocross it would have a disadvantage. The GT Mustang would most definitely destroy.
The reason the 86, BRZ, and 370z don't sell well because no one wants them, they don't cater to the mainstream buying public at all. The American muscle cars now handle great, have tons of power, and are cheap to boot. The other ones are relatively weak, and cost the same. Which one would you choose?
Originally Posted by TacoBello
this is what happens when stupid people post. my nismo is the heaviest 370, and it comes in at 3350. Other trims are 100 pounds lighter. The 1LE comes in at 3750. That's at least 400 pounds more. And it's much more than just curb weight. But thanks for playing.
Ok fine. It also comes with an extra 100hp and 200lb-ft of torque to deal with that.
Sorry dude, the muscle cars are just better at this point. Until they decide to turbo their motors to make a lot more power, they just aren't going to be competitive. If the S2000 was on sale as new right now, it probably wouldn't sell all that well either.
I don't think TacoBello was referring to lap times. I believe he's talking more about the nimble feeling, the steering feedback, feeling the car, etc, in a FRS or Miata. For the FRS in particular, Toyota purposely put Prius tires on it for more fun rather than performance numbers.
With that said, these new M3 and M4 are pretty heavy too lol.
Just don't waste the namesake on some cheap econo hybrid 2 seater Honda.
I think HMC tried that experiment already with the CRZ and hopefully learned their lesson. A lot of goodwill built up in the Prelude name. Bring it back with a car that deserves the badge. With a 6MT.
Here in America, the Honda Prelude is remembered as a fun, sporty little car, a reminder of a time when everything Honda made was clever and reliable, and the Prelude was their way of having some fun without sacrificing Honda quality. People in America have fondmemories of the Prelude, which is why finding out that it was a flop in Japan is so hard to imagine. What’s even harder to wrap your head around is part of why: it had a “pervert lever.” Wait, what?
Yep, I said “pervert lever.” I’ll admit I had absolutely no idea what the hell a pervert lever was or what the hell it had to do with the sweet, innocent Prelude until I saw this twitter thread from @chibitech called “The Lewdness of the Honda Prelude.” @Chibitech is based in Japan, and, as such, she’s privy to an entirely different perception of the Prelude, one that was somehow entirely lost to us here in America.
I’ll embed her thread here, but I’ll try and do some summarizing as well. It’s absolutely fascinating.
The Prelude’s unpopularity was actually a bit more complex than just the pervert thing—which I’ll get to soon—though that was a huge factor. The Prelude was always sort of a compromised car, a sporty car yet not a true sports car, a front-wheel-drive car that handled well and looked sporty, but would never really compete with similar-sized but more performance-oriented and upmarket cars like the Nissan Skyline coupés, with their rear-wheel drive and much more genuine sports car handling and power.
The Prelude ended up being part of a new category of cars, sporty cars with sleek looks, lots of tech, but not necessarily stellar performance. Cars that were targeted at young men hoping to impress young ladies. These became known as “Date Cars.”
Okay, so, the Prelude was a Date Car, but so were cars like the Nissan Silvia and the Toyota Celica—so why was it that the Prelude specifically earned such an unsavory reputation?
Because of this:
[img]data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAAAAACH5BAEKAAEALAAAAAABAAE AAAICTAEAOw==[/img] Yes, that’s just the seat reclining lever, used to adjust the seatback position so you can recline or flop the seat forward to get into the back seat. Normally, though, this is on the outer side of the seat, so it’s accessible as the person enters the car. Here, the passenger’s seat lever is on the inner side of the seat, meaning it’s accessible most easily by the person in the driver’s seat.
This is a puzzling place to put that lever, right? @Chibitech herself was confused as well, but unlike me, she was aware of the Japanese name for this lever:
“I was trying to figure a logical reason for this, and all I could think of is it lets the driver stay inside while they allow a passenger first access to the… tiny… back… seat? Japanese people weren’t fooled though; they nicknamed it 「スケべレバー」, aka the ‘Pervert Lever.’”
. This report even went ahead and demonstrated how a Prelude-owning pervert would employ the Pervert Lever:
Yeah, that’s pretty much how I figured it’d work.
So, this alarmingly-placed lever that allowed the driver to quickly and easily move his passenger from seated to prone and vulnerable absolutely cemented the Prelude’s reputation as what we in America might call a Date Rapist’s Car.
It’s not like Japan, or even Honda, were particularly prudish about sex in cars; in fact, Honda marketed a small but roomy city car, the S-MX, with an ad campaign that made it pretty clear that it was a good car to get it on in.
In America, where eagles soar into the sky clutching dripping steaks, we normally think of Hondas…
Read more The difference, though, is pretty clear: the S-MX was a car for consensual, horny people to get some time alone in, and the Prelude was for horny bastards to try to take advantage of women.
It’s absolutely worth reading @Chibitech’s full thread. I had no idea this existed, but as you can see, it’s an incredible example of how a minor technical detail can have huge cultural repercussions that can completely make or break how successful a car is.
Are you sitting down, folks? Honda just dropped a bombshell at the Japan Mobility Show, and it's called Prelude. Feast your eyes on the Honda Prelude Concept, and whoa, Nellie does it look ready for production.
What are the details of this car? We'll be right up front in saying, for now at least, things are thin. Very thin. The Prelude reveal came at the very end of Honda's presentation of concepts for the show, and the discussion didn't include any details regarding the powertrain. Actually, the discussion didn't include details period, save for a hat tip that that it's electric and it's designed to blend electrification and driving pleasure for future Honda fun. Take that as you will.
While Honda leaves us hanging on information regarding the Prelude Concept, our eyes see a vehicle that doesn't really look like a concept. The face isn't too far removed from a Civic, save for the lack of a grille. Body lines are symmetrical but not blocky, and Brembo brakes are visible behind factory-styled 20-inch wheels. There are proper side mirrors in place of cameras, and a thin yet prominent spoiler adorns the fastback. The only aspect that screams concept are the completely black windows, suggesting there's nothing to see inside.
So, the million-dollar question now is, will Honda actually build it? Again, the company is being very coy with details right now, but Honda CEO Toshihiro Mibe shared some interesting remarks following the Prelude's unveiling. Highlighting the company's commitment to future sports models mentioned in 2022, he said this concept "will become the prelude for our future model which will inherit the 'joy of driving' into the full-fledged electrified future and embody Honda's unalterable sports mindset." Note that prelude here is lower-case, serving not as the name of this car but as a foundation for future Honda performance vehicles.Frankly, Honda could do worse than revive a storied performance nameplate from its past. Launching in 1978, the first-generation Prelude brought sporty front-wheel-drive performance to the world. It was the first Honda to feature a moonroof, and when it finally exited the scene in 2001, the Prelude offered a maximum output of 217 horsepower in Japan and 200 hp in the US.
Is there room today for a new Prelude EV? Give it a single motor for the front wheels, a modest battery pack to help keep the weight in check, and output in the 300-hp range and it just might make sense as a fun, affordable sports coupe. Make it happen, Honda.
No one was expecting Honda to revive the Prelude for the Japan Mobility Show held in Tokyo from late October until early November. Originally believed to be fully electric, the sports coupe turned out to be a hybrid, following a clarification made by a company spokesperson. We haven't heard much since the concept was introduced, but Honda's chief engineer Tomoyuki Yamagami has shared some juicy tidbits with the Australian magazine CarsGuide.
He referred to the car shown at the JMS 2023 as being a prototype, although the official name was Prelude Concept. It's a strong indication we are dealing with more than just a concept that we'll never see again as is usually the case with vehicles unveiled at auto shows. In fact, Yamagami revealed the car is currently being developed and that the target is to have it on sale "sometime in the mid-2020s."
He went on to mention it'll be a global model since it's being engineered for both left- and right-hand drive markets. Yamagami refused to go into details about the mysterious hybrid powertrain, but he did suggest it won't be a hardcore track-focused sports car: "This isn't going to be the sportiest, zippiest car that's going to be tossed into the circuits."He explained the subsequent production model will be a "prelude for all of the electric vehicles that Honda is going to be launching." He confirmed a practical four-seat layout, although judging by the heavily sloped roofline, it's likely going to be more along the lines of a 2+2.
The decision to bring back a beloved moniker follows in the footsteps of Acura's revival of the Integra in 2022 as a posh Civic Type R. Although currently dormant, the NSX has already been confirmed for a return with a fully electric third generation, with the Performance Electric Vision Concept possibly serving as a preview.
At last year's Tokyo Auto Show, Honda surprised everyone by revealing the Honda Prelude Concept. The company has already confirmed it'll eventually produce the two-door hybrid coupe, and a new report from Best Car Web provides an insight into the car's alleged powertrain details, dimensions, and Japanese price.
We already know it'll have a hybrid powertrain, which the chief engineer Tomoyuki Yamagami said would serve as a "prelude" to Honda's future electric vehicles. Best Car believes it'll have the same 2.0-liter four-cylinder e:HEV engine that powers the Accord and Civic hybrids, making a bit more than both with a combined 207 horsepower. The last Prelude in 2001 made 200 hp in the US.
The Prelude will supposedly measure 169.3 inches long, 70.5 inches wide, and 51.2 inches tall with a 101.4-inch wheelbase. That makes it bigger than the two-seat Mazda MX-5 Miata at 154.1 inches long, which isn't surprising, and nearly identical to the Toyota GR86 in size with matching wheelbases.
Honda is reportedly positioning it as a premium model positioned above the two-door Toyota. It'll apparently cost Ą4.2 to Ą4.5 million ($27,325 at $29,277 today’s exchange rate) in Japan, more than the Ą2.9- to Ą3.6-million ($18,867 to $23,422) GR86, but it’s best to take the publication’s report with a big grain of salt as its past reports haven’t always been accurate.
The Prelude isn't expected to arrive until the second half of 2025, and it won't be the "sportiest, zippiest car" in the world, so temper your track-day expectations. It is also unclear whether Honda plans to sell it in the United States. The automaker is developing the Prelude in both left- and right-hand-drive configurations, so there's a chance we might get it here, but nothing is official.
Honda launched the original Prelude in 1978. The fifth and final generation – thus far – went live in 1996, only to be discontinued in 2001 over abysmally poor sales. The storied nameplate was revived for the 2023 Japan Mobility Show in the form of a hybrid coupe, with said concept going into production for the 2026 model year with a familiar powertrain.
The spy photographers recently captured the all-new Prelude doing its thing in Germany of all places. Look beyond the pixelated camouflage, and you will notice that Honda's design team didn't change too much from the show car. Differences include larger mirrors, a front-facing camera for the auto emergency braking system and lane-keep assist system, plus a slightly revised lower grille.
Although camouflage wrap conceals the lightning signature of the rear lights, we're utmost certain that Honda retained the full-width LED bar from the concept. Gifted with pop-out door handles, the sixth-gen Prelude is best viewed as the Civic Hybrid in a coupe body. Based on the Civic's platform, this fellow isn't going to blow your socks off.
First and foremost, Honda quotes 200 horsepower and 232 pound-feet (315 Newton-meters) of torque from the dual-motor system, which comprises an electric generator motor and an electric propulsion motor. They're joined by an intelligent power unit and the power control unit, along with a naturally aspirated Atkinson-cycle engine and an electronic continuously variable gearbox.
Similar to the Toyota Hybrid System, the Honda e:HEV fourth-gen hybrid system is a series-parallel hybrid. There is, however, a big difference over the Toyota Hybrid System, that being transmission design. Instead of planetary gears, Honda decided on two clutches: one for low speeds and the other for highway speeds.
In the CR-V Hybrid, the low-speed clutch enables a towing capacity of up to 1,000 pounds (454 kilograms), which is 500 pounds worse than the combustion-only version of the compact utility vehicle. Because Honda's next-gen Prelude is more Civic than CR-V, towing capacity isn't of the essence, but rather fuel economy. In the sedan's case, Honda claims an EPA-rated 49 miles to the gallon (4.8 liters per 100 kilometers) in the combined cycle.
Instrumented testing reveals that Civic Hybrid can hit 60 miles per hour (97 kilometers per hour) in the low sixes, making it quicker than the 1.5-liter turbo it effectively replaces in the lineup. It further outhustles the Civic Si by a few tenths, which isn't bad for a fuel-sipping car. Problem is, a manual box isn't happening due to the hybrid system's complexity.
Honda's global officer in charge of electrification, Shinji Aoyama, told MotorTrend that a row-your-own tranny is out of the question. Be that as it may, the cited publication understands that Honda's fortcoming two-door coupe will shift differently from the Civic Hybrid. While it's hard to make an eCVT genuinely exciting, at least Honda understands that Prelude has to feel that bit sportier than the Civic Hybrid.
To be revealed in series-production guise next year, the all-new Prelude should reach dealers for the 2026 model year. Honda confirmed that it's also going to sell the 2026 Prelude in the United Kingdom and the rest of Europe. Still, it's not clear where Honda is going to build the heir apparent of the Civic Coupe and the hideously underrated CR-Z sport compact.
In terms of its lines, I see hints of both the Toyaburu GR86/BRZ and the new Z .... Along the same general lines as SamDoe, don't think it'll be able to compete with the former, not that they're even in the same market niche ....
07-27-2017 | 11:35 AM
The Pervert Lever
, though I think it'll be closer to the base Model 3. 
