Honda: Fleet news
01-06-2009, 12:33 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Honda: Fleet news
Just off the wire (1/6/09) at Autocar.uk...
Honda axes sports and luxury models
"The restructuring of Honda’s new model programme that led to the death of the new Honda NSX is much more extensive than previously thought. Honda is completely dismantling its plans for the next two years as it attempts to deal with the rapid collapse in new car sales across the world.
Among the casualties of Honda’s rethink are a range of rear-wheel-drive cars to be sold under the Acura brand, a proposed V8 engine, a successor to the Honda S2000 and a convertible based on the forthcoming Honda CR-Z coupé.
Acura, Honda’s US-market luxury rival for Infiniti and Lexus, has been hit hardest by the changes. Not only has it lost the NSX successor — due to be branded as an Acura but killed off last month — but the programme to develop new rear-drive cars aimed specifically at the BMW 3, 5 and 7-series has also been canned.
The basic planning on the cars had been carried out, and the first model to enter production was to be a BMW 7-series rival, due in 2015. It was meant to provide Honda with a credible alternative to established premium rear-drive brands. The future of the next Honda Legend is also in doubt.
Development of a new V8 engine for the rear-drive cars has also been stopped. The new Honda V8 was seen as the wrong engine at the wrong time, and it was opposed by some Honda engineers who viewed it as too big, heavy and unnecessary. Honda product planners have also had trouble figuring out how to make the engine cost-effective.
It’s not just big cars and big petrol engines that have been wiped out. The proposed drop-top version of the new Honda CR-Z hybrid coupe has been abandoned, along with any successor to the Honda S2000, which will die this year.
The current pair of Honda Accords (one for the US, one for the rest of the world) could also be replaced with a single model; that could save billions in development costs.
Honda is now concentrating on building more hybrids and a new small city car. It aims to build 500,000 hybrids by 2012, including the new Honda Insight and the world’s first hybrid supermini, a petrol-electric Honda Jazz due next year. It should be capable of 80mpg and emit just 90g/km of CO2. "
With this announcement, in combination with the cessation of many motorsports activities, Honda's performance car/racing roots are shriveling up... Does this also mean the end of the line for the RL/Legend? What's going to become of Acura? Honda is clearly going full force into realigning itself to be the green carmaker. In ten years will a Honda dealership showroom look like a Smart Car dealer?
"The restructuring of Honda’s new model programme that led to the death of the new Honda NSX is much more extensive than previously thought. Honda is completely dismantling its plans for the next two years as it attempts to deal with the rapid collapse in new car sales across the world.
Among the casualties of Honda’s rethink are a range of rear-wheel-drive cars to be sold under the Acura brand, a proposed V8 engine, a successor to the Honda S2000 and a convertible based on the forthcoming Honda CR-Z coupé.
Acura, Honda’s US-market luxury rival for Infiniti and Lexus, has been hit hardest by the changes. Not only has it lost the NSX successor — due to be branded as an Acura but killed off last month — but the programme to develop new rear-drive cars aimed specifically at the BMW 3, 5 and 7-series has also been canned.
The basic planning on the cars had been carried out, and the first model to enter production was to be a BMW 7-series rival, due in 2015. It was meant to provide Honda with a credible alternative to established premium rear-drive brands. The future of the next Honda Legend is also in doubt.
Development of a new V8 engine for the rear-drive cars has also been stopped. The new Honda V8 was seen as the wrong engine at the wrong time, and it was opposed by some Honda engineers who viewed it as too big, heavy and unnecessary. Honda product planners have also had trouble figuring out how to make the engine cost-effective.
It’s not just big cars and big petrol engines that have been wiped out. The proposed drop-top version of the new Honda CR-Z hybrid coupe has been abandoned, along with any successor to the Honda S2000, which will die this year.
The current pair of Honda Accords (one for the US, one for the rest of the world) could also be replaced with a single model; that could save billions in development costs.
Honda is now concentrating on building more hybrids and a new small city car. It aims to build 500,000 hybrids by 2012, including the new Honda Insight and the world’s first hybrid supermini, a petrol-electric Honda Jazz due next year. It should be capable of 80mpg and emit just 90g/km of CO2. "
Acura
01-06-2009, 12:43 PM
#3
Senior Moderator
This just seems stupid to me. Eventually, the market is going to turn around, and then Honda will have absolutely nothing to bring to a competitive market. 
I understand that times are tough, but a company still needs to progress with development in order to emerge competitive in a tough, established market.
I understand that times are tough, but a company still needs to progress with development in order to emerge competitive in a tough, established market.
01-06-2009, 12:49 PM
#4
This is a little too broad stroke. Someone at Honda needs to have the foresight to see that killing the RWD chassis development will only further the gap between Acura and its competitor brands.
Acura should either update the J-series to DOHC and direct injection or develop a new force-fed motor to compete against the upcoming motors from Audi, BMW, and MB.
Why is it that the enthusiast community seems to be able to grasp this and yet the executives at Honda cannot?
Acura should either update the J-series to DOHC and direct injection or develop a new force-fed motor to compete against the upcoming motors from Audi, BMW, and MB.
Why is it that the enthusiast community seems to be able to grasp this and yet the executives at Honda cannot?
01-06-2009, 12:54 PM
#5
Instructor
Thread Starter
I think that this whole downturn is a real shock to the system for Honda (and Toyota). I don't think they've seen such an adverse market in their histories.
Honda appears to just be scrambling around to find it's "niche". Unfortunately, performance and speed are not going to be in their design plans...
Will the TL be the flagship in Acura showrooms in a couple of years? Sounds like the RL is being shown the door... And with no more anticipation of an NSX to build excitement I feel bad for the dealers.
Honda appears to just be scrambling around to find it's "niche". Unfortunately, performance and speed are not going to be in their design plans...
Will the TL be the flagship in Acura showrooms in a couple of years? Sounds like the RL is being shown the door... And with no more anticipation of an NSX to build excitement I feel bad for the dealers.
01-06-2009, 12:57 PM
#6
on to the next one...
This is a little too broad stroke. Someone at Honda needs to have the foresight to see that killing the RWD chassis development will only further the gap between Acura and its competitor brands.
Acura should either update the J-series to DOHC and direct injection or develop a new force-fed motor to compete against the upcoming motors from Audi, BMW, and MB.
Why is it that the enthusiast community seems to be able to grasp this and yet the executives at Honda cannot?
Acura should either update the J-series to DOHC and direct injection or develop a new force-fed motor to compete against the upcoming motors from Audi, BMW, and MB.
Why is it that the enthusiast community seems to be able to grasp this and yet the executives at Honda cannot?
The average, everyday users drive the bottom-line, and they aren't willing to pay extra for the added accoutrement that we, as enthusiasts, would.
01-06-2009, 12:57 PM
#7
Senior Moderator
I know they've been doing so since 86 but can anyone truly see Acura surviving while continually selling cars based off the Honda Accord?
I can't see them lasting another 10 years.
I can't see them lasting another 10 years.
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01-06-2009, 01:13 PM
#10
Senior Moderator
Does this mean I own the only RWD Acura ever made? 
Personally i think Acura will do just fine. Most people could care less about it being based off the Accord. Reliability and fuel efficient is what most care about in their market. IMO
Not like the S2k sold all that well anyways.
Personally i think Acura will do just fine. Most people could care less about it being based off the Accord. Reliability and fuel efficient is what most care about in their market. IMO
Not like the S2k sold all that well anyways.
01-06-2009, 01:16 PM
#11
Senior Moderator
Does this mean I own the only RWD Acura ever made?
Personally i think Acura will do just fine. Most people could care less about it being based off the Accord. Reliability and fuel efficient is what most care about in their market. IMO
Not like the S2k sold all that well anyways.
Personally i think Acura will do just fine. Most people could care less about it being based off the Accord. Reliability and fuel efficient is what most care about in their market. IMO
Not like the S2k sold all that well anyways.
01-06-2009, 01:25 PM
#14
Senior Moderator
Well Acura currently still outsells Infiniti and they went RWD and even offer a V8.
Having a sporty image helps to us enthusiasts, but i still think theres a huge market on those people who dont care.
01-06-2009, 01:28 PM
#16
Instructor
Thread Starter
Looks like Autocar was established in 1895 and is the worlds oldest car magazine... if that means anything.
Of course in April '08 they were reporting that Honda/Acura had started development of a RWD platform set to debut in 2015 and that the NSX successor would debut at the Tokyo Motor Show in 2009. How quickly the scenery has changed!
Of course in April '08 they were reporting that Honda/Acura had started development of a RWD platform set to debut in 2015 and that the NSX successor would debut at the Tokyo Motor Show in 2009. How quickly the scenery has changed!
01-06-2009, 01:28 PM
#17
Senior Moderator
But the gap is far smaller today than it was 5 years ago. These things don't happen overnight. Image + smarter internet savvy customers don't bode well for Acura's FWD future IMO. The trickle down effect is happening.
01-06-2009, 01:29 PM
#18
on to the next one...
I think that's pretty much been proven time and time again at this point.
01-06-2009, 01:32 PM
#20
Senior Moderator
True, but people put just as much emphasis on style. I guess I'm thinking too much bout the drive train. What I should have said is I can't see them lasting if they keep up current trends where they've fallen behind is just about every facet of the car.
01-06-2009, 01:42 PM
#21
Instructor
Thread Starter
Only more recently do I feel that their interior quality has been catching up to their exterior design.
I should know as I just traded in my G35 coupe for an Acura RL. The Infiniti interior quality was nowhere near the quality of even my '94 Acura Legend... But I'll admit that the new G37 interior is an improvement. I mostly needed the AWD and the local Infiniti dealer's service department has not been the greatest.
On the flip side I just had a colleague trade in his '05 Acura RL for an Infiniti M and he likes the handling much better (and he's not even a "car guy").
So even non-enthusiasts can and do notice differences in handling and performance.
Unless Acura can shake things up and come out with some exciting new products and designs (and get rid of their current designers) I think that the gap will continue to shrink...
And watch out for Hyundai!
01-06-2009, 02:02 PM
#24
I'm suprised the S2000 made it as long as it did, but Honda seems to do that with their sports cars: let them run for a *long* time with only minor or cosmetic changes before killing them completely and moving on.
Makes me a little tempted to go for an 09 S2k. When anyone kills an iconic sports car and doesn't replace it for a long time, the last one's sold are usually hot items a few years down the road.
Makes me a little tempted to go for an 09 S2k. When anyone kills an iconic sports car and doesn't replace it for a long time, the last one's sold are usually hot items a few years down the road.
01-06-2009, 02:33 PM
#25
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Honda, for both cars and motorcycles, has always seemed a little arrogant and stubborn with a business strategy of "telling" the consumers what they want. Maybe they really do know more than most consumers as to what "we" really want. Crystal ball perhaps...
They make some awesome machines but they also make some duds. Especially with motorcycles, once Honda makes a decision to do something, they go all the way. Currently Honda is making a supermoto motorcycle with only a 200cc displacement motor while everyone is making a similar bike with a 400cc-550cc motor for the same class. Honda just seems to not want to conform and they are determined to go their own way. They also seem like they detest having to change what they are doing to match and compete with the competition, and will stick with a design/model forever sometimes, just like what Brandon24pdx said about the S2000. My Honda motorcycle dealer always talks about this and how Honda just does what Honda wants, almost oblivious to what consumers want. Sometimes Honda makes a press release to "test the waters" and see how consumers will react. They did a similar thing with the Goldwing a few years back.
I had really hoped to see the TL switch to a rear-wheel design to compete with the G37 and the BMW 3-series, which was a similar consensus from the car magazines but Honda must have a master plan.
And I agree with motegi, watch out for Hyundai!
They make some awesome machines but they also make some duds. Especially with motorcycles, once Honda makes a decision to do something, they go all the way. Currently Honda is making a supermoto motorcycle with only a 200cc displacement motor while everyone is making a similar bike with a 400cc-550cc motor for the same class. Honda just seems to not want to conform and they are determined to go their own way. They also seem like they detest having to change what they are doing to match and compete with the competition, and will stick with a design/model forever sometimes, just like what Brandon24pdx said about the S2000. My Honda motorcycle dealer always talks about this and how Honda just does what Honda wants, almost oblivious to what consumers want. Sometimes Honda makes a press release to "test the waters" and see how consumers will react. They did a similar thing with the Goldwing a few years back.
I had really hoped to see the TL switch to a rear-wheel design to compete with the G37 and the BMW 3-series, which was a similar consensus from the car magazines but Honda must have a master plan.
And I agree with motegi, watch out for Hyundai!
01-06-2009, 02:52 PM
#27
Senior Moderator
Honda, for both cars and motorcycles, has always seemed a little arrogant and stubborn with a business strategy of "telling" the consumers what they want. Maybe they really do know more than most consumers as to what "we" really want. Crystal ball perhaps...
They make some awesome machines but they also make some duds. Especially with motorcycles, once Honda makes a decision to do something, they go all the way. Currently Honda is making a supermoto motorcycle with only a 200cc displacement motor while everyone is making a similar bike with a 400cc-550cc motor for the same class. Honda just seems to not want to conform and they are determined to go their own way. They also seem like they detest having to change what they are doing to match and compete with the competition, and will stick with a design/model forever sometimes, just like what Brandon24pdx said about the S2000. My Honda motorcycle dealer always talks about this and how Honda just does what Honda wants, almost oblivious to what consumers want. Sometimes Honda makes a press release to "test the waters" and see how consumers will react. They did a similar thing with the Goldwing a few years back.
I had really hoped to see the TL switch to a rear-wheel design to compete with the G37 and the BMW 3-series, which was a similar consensus from the car magazines but Honda must have a master plan.
They make some awesome machines but they also make some duds. Especially with motorcycles, once Honda makes a decision to do something, they go all the way. Currently Honda is making a supermoto motorcycle with only a 200cc displacement motor while everyone is making a similar bike with a 400cc-550cc motor for the same class. Honda just seems to not want to conform and they are determined to go their own way. They also seem like they detest having to change what they are doing to match and compete with the competition, and will stick with a design/model forever sometimes, just like what Brandon24pdx said about the S2000. My Honda motorcycle dealer always talks about this and how Honda just does what Honda wants, almost oblivious to what consumers want. Sometimes Honda makes a press release to "test the waters" and see how consumers will react. They did a similar thing with the Goldwing a few years back.
I had really hoped to see the TL switch to a rear-wheel design to compete with the G37 and the BMW 3-series, which was a similar consensus from the car magazines but Honda must have a master plan.
Definitely feels and looks that way but then we see things like the MSX that follow the leader.
01-06-2009, 03:13 PM
#28
Senior Moderator
While I agree that V8 and RWD (or at least and RWD biases AWD system) is likely needed to compete more effectively with its sportier Lexus and Infiniti counterparts, I think this may actually be a good decision specifically with respect to today's economy.
Honestly, with the TL going a bit more upmarket, the RL is likely in its last generation if Honda is not looking to go the V8/RWD route with it. I personally would be hard pressed to get one over a TL SH-AWD model.
As for the combined single model replacing the 8G Accord and 2G TSX, I would be interested in seeing how this will be executed stateside as both models are fairly successful on their own merits. Question is: will the US market take kindly to an Acura badged 9G Accord posing as a TSX or would the TSX just be killed off? 
EDIT: And I say that we are now in an economy that my warrant the introduction of the Acura CSX stateside.
Honestly, with the TL going a bit more upmarket, the RL is likely in its last generation if Honda is not looking to go the V8/RWD route with it. I personally would be hard pressed to get one over a TL SH-AWD model.
As for the combined single model replacing the 8G Accord and 2G TSX, I would be interested in seeing how this will be executed stateside as both models are fairly successful on their own merits. Question is: will the US market take kindly to an Acura badged 9G Accord posing as a TSX or would the TSX just be killed off?
EDIT: And I say that we are now in an economy that my warrant the introduction of the Acura CSX stateside.
01-06-2009, 03:20 PM
#29
Pro
This really shouldn't be a surprise, since survival of the parent company is much more important than the future models and unproven business plans.
Honda's plans for Honda products make pretty good sense. What will become of Acura is unclear. Maybe the SHAWD will continue to carry the day, but I have no clue what happens after the current cycles of TSX and TL.
Honda's plans for Honda products make pretty good sense. What will become of Acura is unclear. Maybe the SHAWD will continue to carry the day, but I have no clue what happens after the current cycles of TSX and TL.
01-06-2009, 03:35 PM
#31
While I agree that V8 and RWD (or at least and RWD biases AWD system) is likely needed to compete more effectively with its sportier Lexus and Infiniti counterparts, I think this may actually be a good decision specifically with respect to today's economy.
Honestly, with the TL going a bit more upmarket, the RL is likely in its last generation if Honda is not looking to go the V8/RWD route with it. I personally would be hard pressed to get one over a TL SH-AWD model.
As for the combined single model replacing the 8G Accord and 2G TSX, I would be interested in seeing how this will be executed stateside as both models are fairly successful on their own merits. Question is: will the US market take kindly to an Acura badged 9G Accord posing as a TSX or would the TSX just be killed off?
EDIT: And I say that we are now in an economy that my warrant the introduction of the Acura CSX stateside.
Honestly, with the TL going a bit more upmarket, the RL is likely in its last generation if Honda is not looking to go the V8/RWD route with it. I personally would be hard pressed to get one over a TL SH-AWD model.
As for the combined single model replacing the 8G Accord and 2G TSX, I would be interested in seeing how this will be executed stateside as both models are fairly successful on their own merits. Question is: will the US market take kindly to an Acura badged 9G Accord posing as a TSX or would the TSX just be killed off?
EDIT: And I say that we are now in an economy that my warrant the introduction of the Acura CSX stateside.
and the CSX is wayyy to civic like to bring here. If it were to come, the next gen CSX or civic would need to be very different from each other. and if they did that, well then they are doing the opposite of what they would do to the accord/TSX.
Last edited by aznboi2424; 01-06-2009 at 03:39 PM.
01-06-2009, 04:10 PM
#33
Three Wheelin'
Why? Buying the car shows them that you want the brand to survive, which it definitely should IMO. But I don't see Acura disappearing, though, and it is the Honda company that shows a lot of promise (IF they don't go too overboard w/ their pricing that is, and I think they are just about touching that line right now).
I am not surprised by this at all and moving away from a V8 is a great move IMO. These cheap fuel prices are only temporary and humanity needs to have a greener focus, period. $4.00+ per gallon could last a year plus the next time around, and who would buy and drive a V8 during that time? How much would the vehicle be worth then?
Moving away from RWD is not a bad move IF they focus on something other than FWD. SH-AWD in more of Honda's cars would be a nice compromise IMO.
Only having one Accord, now THAT is dumb! If they would do that and eliminate the coupe, they would need to make one sporty sedan to get me (and many others) even considering an Accord again.
I have to admit that I have been pretty disappointed w/ the direction Honda seems to be going and if this isn't done right, they could easily lose their top spots.
I am not surprised by this at all and moving away from a V8 is a great move IMO. These cheap fuel prices are only temporary and humanity needs to have a greener focus, period. $4.00+ per gallon could last a year plus the next time around, and who would buy and drive a V8 during that time? How much would the vehicle be worth then?
Moving away from RWD is not a bad move IF they focus on something other than FWD. SH-AWD in more of Honda's cars would be a nice compromise IMO.
Only having one Accord, now THAT is dumb! If they would do that and eliminate the coupe, they would need to make one sporty sedan to get me (and many others) even considering an Accord again.
I have to admit that I have been pretty disappointed w/ the direction Honda seems to be going and if this isn't done right, they could easily lose their top spots.
01-06-2009, 05:44 PM
#34
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Honda seems to me like the Nintendo equivalent in the automotive world. They'll do things their way in spite of what a rabid fan base thinks and will come out winning in the end due to the average consumer. I mean, look at the Wii. Hardcore gamers could give two craps less if not for a handful of games, but the casual eat it up and hence rocketing Nintendo to being an industry leader. I guess with Honda and Nintendo being mostly Japanese based this analogy makes sense.
01-06-2009, 06:20 PM
#35
Senior Moderator
So now Honda (Acura) will be even further behind the very companies its trying to compete with I dont think that will be enough to save them. They need better styling or i think they will continue on a downward spiral.
I dont think that will be enough to save them. They need better styling or i think they will continue on a downward spiral.
01-06-2009, 06:24 PM
#36
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What will likely happen to the Accord/TSX/TL/RL situation is the following:
Accord and TL will continue to share the same platform. Difference will be, the TL will come standard with SH-AWD and have the 3.7 305hp engine as the base engine. A Type-S TL would then receive a turbo charged 3.6 pushing 360hp, again with SH-AWD.
The Base Accord will continue using the K24 as the base engine with power hopefully raised to 210hp. The Top of the line V6 accord will make due with a de-tuned 3.7 TL engine at 280hp.
Like the TL the RL will continue to ride on the Accord platform but slightly lengthened. Only engine option will be the Turbo 3.6 at 360hp-380hp with SH-AWD.
The next TSX will then ride on the next Civic platform. Before you call me crazy I have a few reasons as to why. Acura already has a vehicle that rides on the Civic platform. Nope I don't mean the discontinued RSX, but the RDX. The RDX is based on the CR-V and the CR-V is based on the Civic. Also the next generation Civic will likely be larger, probably the same size as the current TSX. Thirdly with the next TSX being Civic based this will allow Acura to offer a Coupe version of the TSX. (then again we never saw a coupe version of the TL with the 3rd gens so that point may be moot). My theorized TSX specs are as follows.
Base TSX will receive an even higher powered version of the K24 producing 215-225 hp. The base TSX will be the only FWD car in Acura's line up(although I hear that the RDX may soon be available as a FWD option in the future). An SH-AWD version of the TSX will be available using the K23 engine from the RDX. It will be tuned to produce 255-270 hp.
Since I brought up the Civic, I might as well make crazy predictions about it. The Civic DX and LX will continue to use the R20 motor but it will be tuned to 150 hp to remain competitive. Recalling the times of the 5th and 6th generation Civics the EX will use a better engine then the DX and LX. Likely a detuned K24, perhaps even a non-turbo K23. The Civic EX should produce 170 hp. The Top of the line Civic Si will then use the same K24 as the Base TSX but likely tuned to 210-215hp.
Also to Widen the Acura range, we may see the return of the CL and RSX as coupe versions of the TL and TSX respectively.
Lastly, Acura will either kill the MSX (please please) or call it what it is...a TL wagon(doubtfull).
These are just thoughts I had. I have no knowledge or any idea as to what Honda will do next. At best I see this as the best possible way for Honda/Acura to have there cake (limited amount of platforms, Accord(large car)/Civic(small-mid size)/Odyssey(Truck-SUV-Van) and eat it too(will keep enthusiasts satiated.
Accord and TL will continue to share the same platform. Difference will be, the TL will come standard with SH-AWD and have the 3.7 305hp engine as the base engine. A Type-S TL would then receive a turbo charged 3.6 pushing 360hp, again with SH-AWD.
The Base Accord will continue using the K24 as the base engine with power hopefully raised to 210hp. The Top of the line V6 accord will make due with a de-tuned 3.7 TL engine at 280hp.
Like the TL the RL will continue to ride on the Accord platform but slightly lengthened. Only engine option will be the Turbo 3.6 at 360hp-380hp with SH-AWD.
The next TSX will then ride on the next Civic platform. Before you call me crazy I have a few reasons as to why. Acura already has a vehicle that rides on the Civic platform. Nope I don't mean the discontinued RSX, but the RDX. The RDX is based on the CR-V and the CR-V is based on the Civic. Also the next generation Civic will likely be larger, probably the same size as the current TSX. Thirdly with the next TSX being Civic based this will allow Acura to offer a Coupe version of the TSX. (then again we never saw a coupe version of the TL with the 3rd gens so that point may be moot). My theorized TSX specs are as follows.
Base TSX will receive an even higher powered version of the K24 producing 215-225 hp. The base TSX will be the only FWD car in Acura's line up(although I hear that the RDX may soon be available as a FWD option in the future). An SH-AWD version of the TSX will be available using the K23 engine from the RDX. It will be tuned to produce 255-270 hp.
Since I brought up the Civic, I might as well make crazy predictions about it. The Civic DX and LX will continue to use the R20 motor but it will be tuned to 150 hp to remain competitive. Recalling the times of the 5th and 6th generation Civics the EX will use a better engine then the DX and LX. Likely a detuned K24, perhaps even a non-turbo K23. The Civic EX should produce 170 hp. The Top of the line Civic Si will then use the same K24 as the Base TSX but likely tuned to 210-215hp.
Also to Widen the Acura range, we may see the return of the CL and RSX as coupe versions of the TL and TSX respectively.
Lastly, Acura will either kill the MSX (please please) or call it what it is...a TL wagon(doubtfull).
These are just thoughts I had. I have no knowledge or any idea as to what Honda will do next. At best I see this as the best possible way for Honda/Acura to have there cake (limited amount of platforms, Accord(large car)/Civic(small-mid size)/Odyssey(Truck-SUV-Van) and eat it too(will keep enthusiasts satiated.
01-06-2009, 06:40 PM
#37
6G TLX-S
I can foresee that the next cost cutting plan for Honda is to kill off the Acura brand entirely. Without the NSX replacement, V10, V8, and RWD, all efforts to further differentiate the Acura brand and Honda brand vehicles are proved wasted. The only differentiation left is the questionable-looking front grill design for Acura vs the conventional-looking front grill design for Honda vehicles.
Acura will continue to remain as a wanna-be luxury brand, and will end up competing with vehicles in the Honda brand rather than those from the true luxury brands.
Acura will continue to remain as a wanna-be luxury brand, and will end up competing with vehicles in the Honda brand rather than those from the true luxury brands.
01-06-2009, 06:43 PM
#38
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Key word being "today". This is very shortsighted of them. Will the economy be in a slump forever? Probably not. So what happens when enthusiasts cars are back in vogue? Rather than be ready to have something as soon as that happens, Acura will again have to play catchup.
01-06-2009, 06:50 PM
#39
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Honda seems to me like the Nintendo equivalent in the automotive world. They'll do things their way in spite of what a rabid fan base thinks and will come out winning in the end due to the average consumer. I mean, look at the Wii. Hardcore gamers could give two craps less if not for a handful of games, but the casual eat it up and hence rocketing Nintendo to being an industry leader. I guess with Honda and Nintendo being mostly Japanese based this analogy makes sense.
Acura on the other hand is not as well respected as even Honda thinks it should be, so Acura is more akin to the PS3 than to a Wii.
Of all the brands that DON'T need drastic changes in their plan to survive, Honda would be at or near the top of the list. This knee-jerk reaction to shelve the "progression" of Acura upwards, the way that THEY admit they need to go, is disappointing.
01-06-2009, 06:51 PM
#40
I know a couple of people mentioned Hyundai. Just caught this little tidbit
Hyundai isn't immune. I'd be interested to see whether their move upmarket pans out in leaner ecomomic times. That was a large investment in time and resources.
IMO, Acura will survive, but it won't be tier 1 or whatever, which is the case right now anyways. While I still consider it a step up from Honda, the TSX/Accord sure blurs that line.
Not that any of this matters to me since I plan on keeping my TSX going for awhile.
LA Times Autoblog
Hyundai, a relatively small player in the U.S. market with a 3% share in 2008, today reported a 48% drop in December sales with a year earlier — one of the worst showings among automakers.
Hyundai, a relatively small player in the U.S. market with a 3% share in 2008, today reported a 48% drop in December sales with a year earlier — one of the worst showings among automakers.
IMO, Acura will survive, but it won't be tier 1 or whatever, which is the case right now anyways. While I still consider it a step up from Honda, the TSX/Accord sure blurs that line.
Not that any of this matters to me since I plan on keeping my TSX going for awhile.