Honda: Development and Technology News
#2281
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100hp/liter - yes, but only for 4 cylinders and Honda is especially good at tuning 4-cylinder engines.
Dated back to 1997, Honda had already achieved 108.5hp/liter with the 195hp 1.8L-I4 with a 8,500 redline rpm, as used on the notorious Integra Type-R (only available with manual transmission).
However, Honda R&D doesn't enjoy the same success with it's J-series SOHC V6 (used in all Honda/Acura V6 products except the NSX) in hitting the 100hp/liter goal.
Not even the C-series DOHC V6, as last used on the 2005 NSX, could crack the 100hp/liter barrier.
Even for the latest generation Direct-Injected SOHC 3.5L-V6 as used on the Acura flagship sedan, Honda is only able to crank out 310hp.
Unless Honda is willing to spend huge sums in developing a brand new DI, i-VTEC, DOHC 3.5L-V6 with possibly 8,000-9,000 redline rpm, otherwise there is little hope that it's naturally-aspirated non-hybrid SOHC 3.5L-V6 can break the 100hp/liter output barrier.
Besides, a high-revving V6 is perfectly ok to be used in sport cars, such as the NSX, when paired with a manual transmission so that the engine rev can be kept high (5000-8000rpm) at all times for maximum power.
You are right that this engine isn't gonna be very driveable in a luxury sedan especially when paired with an auto transmission.
Dated back to 1997, Honda had already achieved 108.5hp/liter with the 195hp 1.8L-I4 with a 8,500 redline rpm, as used on the notorious Integra Type-R (only available with manual transmission).
However, Honda R&D doesn't enjoy the same success with it's J-series SOHC V6 (used in all Honda/Acura V6 products except the NSX) in hitting the 100hp/liter goal.
Not even the C-series DOHC V6, as last used on the 2005 NSX, could crack the 100hp/liter barrier.
Even for the latest generation Direct-Injected SOHC 3.5L-V6 as used on the Acura flagship sedan, Honda is only able to crank out 310hp.
Unless Honda is willing to spend huge sums in developing a brand new DI, i-VTEC, DOHC 3.5L-V6 with possibly 8,000-9,000 redline rpm, otherwise there is little hope that it's naturally-aspirated non-hybrid SOHC 3.5L-V6 can break the 100hp/liter output barrier.
Besides, a high-revving V6 is perfectly ok to be used in sport cars, such as the NSX, when paired with a manual transmission so that the engine rev can be kept high (5000-8000rpm) at all times for maximum power.
You are right that this engine isn't gonna be very driveable in a luxury sedan especially when paired with an auto transmission.
Like you said, the J has been mostly used on sedans, coupes, SUV's, and/or vans. They main goals are compactness, smoothness, low NVH, good power and torque characteristics, and fuel efficiency. High redline and 100+hp/L are not exactly the main goals.
#2282
6G TLX-S
^^^^^
Ok fair enough.
Honda doesn't want to break the 100hp/liter barrier with it's naturally-aspirated V6 engines, and also doesn't want to build simple high-power V6 using force-induction technology.
So much for Honda wanting Acura to crack the big luxury sedan market.
Ok fair enough.
Honda doesn't want to break the 100hp/liter barrier with it's naturally-aspirated V6 engines, and also doesn't want to build simple high-power V6 using force-induction technology.
So much for Honda wanting Acura to crack the big luxury sedan market.
#2283
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^^^^^
Ok fair enough.
Honda doesn't want to break the 100hp/liter barrier with it's naturally-aspirated V6 engines, and also doesn't want to build simple high-power V6 using force-induction technology.
So much for Honda wanting Acura to crack the big luxury sedan market.
Ok fair enough.
Honda doesn't want to break the 100hp/liter barrier with it's naturally-aspirated V6 engines, and also doesn't want to build simple high-power V6 using force-induction technology.
So much for Honda wanting Acura to crack the big luxury sedan market.
#2284
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Honda boosting their V6 engines? Are you serious?
#2285
6G TLX-S
Honda boosted high-power V6 ? Yes ..... yes ..... yes.
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#2286
6G TLX-S
Looks like Honda still need more urgent work in first fixing the J-series V6 family than in cranking out more horsepower.
American Honda settles class-action suit over oil-burning claim
http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...#axzz2ib4n4a2Y
American Honda settles class-action suit over oil-burning claim
http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...#axzz2ib4n4a2Y
#2287
Senior Moderator
Looks like Honda still need more urgent work in first fixing the J-series V6 family than in cranking out more horsepower.
American Honda settles class-action suit over oil-burning claim
http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...#axzz2ib4n4a2Y
American Honda settles class-action suit over oil-burning claim
http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...#axzz2ib4n4a2Y
#2289
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Honda said it was normal for a powertrain to burn a quart of oil every 1,000 miles
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#2290
6G TLX-S
#2291
Senior Moderator
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#2293
Strange. I've noticed this ongoing issue with the VQ family of V6s. People have been clamoring for a new engine series for a while now, Nissan + Honda
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#2295
6G TLX-S
This class-action suit only reveals the problem for the 3.5L-V6.
However, in the 4G TL forum, owners are reporting that it's not the 3.5L-V6 that burns oil, it is actually the 3.7L-V6 that is the mega oil burner.
My 3.7L-V6 also burns oil, although it is not as severe as many others. One member almost has the engine oil burned dry recently :
https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-problems-fixes-297/2012-tl-sh-awd-burning-oil-898503/
So, there could be more issues still lurking under the tip of the oil-burning iceberg.
#2296
Safety Car
![Exclamation](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/icons/icon4.gif)
Honda Motor Co., Ltd. today announced that it has newly developed VTEC TURBO, a direct injection gasoline turbo engine most suitable for small-to-medium-sized vehicles. The VTEC TURBO is a new addition to the Earth Dreams Technology, the next-generation powertrain technologies which achieve both the fun of driving and excellent fuel economy at a high level.
![](http://world.honda.com/news/2013/4131119VTEC-TURBO-Gasoline-Turbo-Engine/image/01.jpg)
2.0 L 4-cylinder direct injection gasoline turbo engine
![](http://world.honda.com/news/2013/4131119VTEC-TURBO-Gasoline-Turbo-Engine/image/02.jpg)
1.5 L 4-cylinder direct injection gasoline turbo engine
![](http://world.honda.com/news/2013/4131119VTEC-TURBO-Gasoline-Turbo-Engine/image/03.jpg)
1.0 L 3-cylinder direct injection gasoline turbo engine
With the application of variable valve motion technology such as Honda's unique VTEC along with direct injection turbocharging with highly-fluidized combustion and a thorough reduction in engine friction, this engine achieves class-leading output and environmental performance, while downsizing engine displacement.
Along with existing hybrid technology and diesel engine, the VTEC TURBO that features displacement size variation of 2.0 L, 1.5 L and 1.0 L will be adopted by Honda's future global models in accordance with characteristics of each model and needs of local customers.
Lineup of direct injection gasoline turbo engines
2.0 L 4-cylinder direct injection gasoline turbo engine
High output and high response were achieved by VTEC, a high-output turbocharger, direct injection technology, and a high-performance cooling system. This is an innovative high-performance engine that realizes the maximum output of more than 280 HP as well as high environmental performance that complies with the EURO 6, European emission standards which will become effective in 2014.
1.5 L 4-cylinder direct injection gasoline turbo engine / 1.0 L 3-cylinder direct injection gasoline turbo engine
These are next-generation compact engines that combine a base engine with a newly designed framework, the VTEC variable valve train system with thoroughly reduced friction, a turbocharger with a low moment of inertia and high responsiveness, and direct injection technology to achieve good balance between high output and torque, above those of conventional naturally-aspirated engines, along with excellent fuel economy.
High output and high response were achieved by VTEC, a high-output turbocharger, direct injection technology, and a high-performance cooling system. This is an innovative high-performance engine that realizes the maximum output of more than 280 HP as well as high environmental performance that complies with the EURO 6, European emission standards which will become effective in 2014.
1.5 L 4-cylinder direct injection gasoline turbo engine / 1.0 L 3-cylinder direct injection gasoline turbo engine
These are next-generation compact engines that combine a base engine with a newly designed framework, the VTEC variable valve train system with thoroughly reduced friction, a turbocharger with a low moment of inertia and high responsiveness, and direct injection technology to achieve good balance between high output and torque, above those of conventional naturally-aspirated engines, along with excellent fuel economy.
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#2297
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I bet the 2.0 and 1.5 will be in the next CR-Z. If so, my wife is upgrading.
#2298
So this is what Honda has been doing all this time. ![Tomato](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tomato.gif)
The 2.0L is by far the most interesting to me, as I could see it ending up in both the TLX and ILX. Toss the 1.5L in the ILX as the base engine and the 2.0L as the performance variant. This also solves the issue of not being able to fit the AT under the hood with the 2.4L. Let's be honest, the ILX's biggest issue is it's powertrain, and if they can fix that it transforms the car into a more competitive package.
If they developed all these new engines and new transmissions though, I'm extremely curious about the TLX. A base model P-AWS with a 2.0L at ~250 HP and a 7-8 speed DCT sounds like an extremely compelling package if the price is right.
Of course, this is just me thinking out loud, they still need to actually do it.
![Tomato](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tomato.gif)
The 2.0L is by far the most interesting to me, as I could see it ending up in both the TLX and ILX. Toss the 1.5L in the ILX as the base engine and the 2.0L as the performance variant. This also solves the issue of not being able to fit the AT under the hood with the 2.4L. Let's be honest, the ILX's biggest issue is it's powertrain, and if they can fix that it transforms the car into a more competitive package.
If they developed all these new engines and new transmissions though, I'm extremely curious about the TLX. A base model P-AWS with a 2.0L at ~250 HP and a 7-8 speed DCT sounds like an extremely compelling package if the price is right.
Of course, this is just me thinking out loud, they still need to actually do it.
#2299
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The 1.5L engine with 200hp would be a good start for the TLX. the 2.0L with 250-280hp can be the next step. The RLX hybrid's powertrain can be the top-of-the-line powertrain (lol who cares if this move kills the RLX!).
#2300
Senior Moderator
According to Jeff at TOV, the 2.0LT won't accept the 8 Speed DCT. Which if true, is disappointing IMO. Otherwise, great news. And about effin time we hear something out of Honda regarding engine development. Now the question is, how long before these come to NA.
#2301
▒JDM ¥ KING▒
There is no way the 1.5L engine with 200hp will go in TLX.
Most likely the 2.0L at ~280HP for the FWD version, unless they are working on 2.4L turbo too.
I say 2014 is BIG for Honda.
Most likely the 2.0L at ~280HP for the FWD version, unless they are working on 2.4L turbo too.
I say 2014 is BIG for Honda.
#2302
Team Owner
#2303
I drive a Subata.
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Saw this in the morning. Finally a positive news from Honda.
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#2304
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I guess not....
#2305
6G TLX-S
Way to go, Honda !
Turbo engines are the future in generating big horsepower.
It sure is a hard decision to "follow" other automakers, but nowadays the whole auto industry is going after force-induction technology for big hp and big fuel saving.
Audi and BMW has been exceptionally successful with a wide range of turbo/super charged engines with excellent results.
Turbo engines are the future in generating big horsepower.
It sure is a hard decision to "follow" other automakers, but nowadays the whole auto industry is going after force-induction technology for big hp and big fuel saving.
Audi and BMW has been exceptionally successful with a wide range of turbo/super charged engines with excellent results.
#2306
come on, there was the first gen RDX. they were with it, albeit just one model.
#2307
6G TLX-S
^^^^^
Instead of continuing to fix and improve upon that turbo-I4, Honda gave up after the single attempt, due to nothing but bad feedback with that turbo-I4 being rough, laggy, and fuel-thirsty.
However, Audi and BMW have been churning out one after another turbo/super charging engines.
Instead of continuing to fix and improve upon that turbo-I4, Honda gave up after the single attempt, due to nothing but bad feedback with that turbo-I4 being rough, laggy, and fuel-thirsty.
However, Audi and BMW have been churning out one after another turbo/super charging engines.
#2308
Senior Moderator
![Rant](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rant.gif)
Anyway, this is great news that I hope doesn't die before making it into production.
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#2309
Senior Moderator
I think the complaints about that Turbo 4 had more to do with the vehicle it was in rather than the engine. Maybe it wasn't the best T4 on the planet but if it was in a TSX I have a feeling it would have been remembered a bit more fondly and maybe still be kicking around.
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#2310
Senior Moderator
http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=1170045
Honda has my interest again. Although I worry the S660 idea may be another S2000 in the making. Something built on a unique platform that can't be shared and is left to wither and die when it should have been built upon. Let's hope they don't make the same mistake again.
Live outside the box… is the theme of the Honda booth for this motor show.
This theme represents Honda's passion and strong belief toward the art of creating things which is not bound by conventional wisdom or past precedent.
This year, we are celebrating the 50th anniversary since Honda began automobile sales. In 1962, Honda exhibited a small-sized sports car named SPORTS・360 at the Japan National Auto Show and we began automobile business in the following year.
The SPORTS・360, which completely changed the established image of mini-vehicles, is one of the Honda models which represents Honda living outside the box. And more importantly, this SPORTS・360 represented the first step toward one of Mr. Soichiro Honda's big dreams, that was to enter the automobile business. Thus, it is the origin of all Honda automobiles.
Our belief in living outside the box has been inherited by Honda associates from one generation to the next, and today, I would like to introduce our new sports models created based on such a challenging spirit and unique Honda inspirations.
First, is the next-generation super sports car, the NSX CONCEPT, which realizes both outstanding driving performance and environmental performance. Based on the NSX CONCEPT, the NSX will be introduced in 2015, first in North America and then in other regions.
Equipped with Honda's SPORT HYBRID SH-AWD® (Super Handling - All Wheel Drive), which was developed in the pursuit of the joy of driving on a different level, the NSX will carve out a new era for mid-ship super sports cars.
And now, Honda will realize a mid-ship sports model in the small car segment as well.
This is the much-awaited next-generation mini-sports model, the Honda S660 CONCEPT. The Honda S660 CONCEPT features nimble and dynamic driving, outstanding stability and a dynamic design that are only possible with a mid-ship layout.
This model embodies the freewheeling thinking of young Honda engineers, who want to make a cool car that is unique to Honda. Our engineers are devoting their passion and technologies to the development of this model toward the start of mass-production in 2015.
I would like our customers around the world to feel the strong spirit of Honda.
Please keep your expectations high for these two sports models.
Now, future cars cannot simply be fast and cool. They also must not show any compromise in the area of environmental concerns.
Two years ago, we introduced Earth Dreams Technology, Honda's new-generation powertrain technologies which realize both the fun of driving and excellent fuel economy at a high level.
From the Earth Dream Technology series, we made significant advancements especially in the area of hybrid technologies and enhanced our hybrid lineup. We have already introduced the one-motor SPORT HYBRID Intelligent Dual Clutch Drive (i-DCD) and two-motor SPORT HYBRID Intelligent Multi Mode Drive (i-MMD) systems, and soon we will install a three-motor SPORT HYBRID SH-AWD® (Super Handling - All Wheel Drive) system in the Acura RLX and NSX.
Moreover, we have newly developed a 1- to 2-liter class direct injection turbo engine, collectively called "VTEC TURBO". This direct injection turbo system and the downsizing of engine displacement enable class-leading output and environmental performance. This engine will be adopted in stages to our new models in the future.
Ever since its foundation, Honda has grown by winning races. Only one year after the start of automobile sales, Honda participated in F1 racing with our first F1 machine called RA271 in 1964. Many people thought it was a crazy attempt at that time, however, in only the second year, Honda captured its first F1 victory.
Now, Honda will participate in F1 again starting with the 2015 season.
With the introduction of new regulations, competition in the area of environmental technologies will intensify, but we can expect to feed more technologies we cultivate through F1 racing back to our mass-production models. That is the value of our F1 participation.
Just the other day, our new F1 engine under development was fired up for the first time.
Please look forward to hearing the "Honda Music" for the new era.
If we say that F1 is the height of auto racing, the height of motorcycle racing is MotoGP, the premier class of the Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix. In this most prestigious motorcycle series, Honda won all three titles -- namely, rider, constructor and team, for the first time in two years. Moreover, Marc Márquez, won the championship at the age of 20 years and 8 months, realizing a historic accomplishment by breaking the record of Freddie Spencer for youngest champion that had stood for 30 years. I would like to thank Honda fans for their continuous support.
Honda's corporate slogan is "The Power of Dreams."
We will introduce a series of exciting sports models which are filled with Honda's dreams and ideas. Moreover we will continue providing our customers around the world with our "outside-the-box" advanced creations realized by Honda associates working at the spot in various areas -- including racing, fundamental research, and the development of mass-production models. Please keep your expectations high for Honda in the future!
Thank you very much for coming today!
This theme represents Honda's passion and strong belief toward the art of creating things which is not bound by conventional wisdom or past precedent.
This year, we are celebrating the 50th anniversary since Honda began automobile sales. In 1962, Honda exhibited a small-sized sports car named SPORTS・360 at the Japan National Auto Show and we began automobile business in the following year.
The SPORTS・360, which completely changed the established image of mini-vehicles, is one of the Honda models which represents Honda living outside the box. And more importantly, this SPORTS・360 represented the first step toward one of Mr. Soichiro Honda's big dreams, that was to enter the automobile business. Thus, it is the origin of all Honda automobiles.
Our belief in living outside the box has been inherited by Honda associates from one generation to the next, and today, I would like to introduce our new sports models created based on such a challenging spirit and unique Honda inspirations.
First, is the next-generation super sports car, the NSX CONCEPT, which realizes both outstanding driving performance and environmental performance. Based on the NSX CONCEPT, the NSX will be introduced in 2015, first in North America and then in other regions.
Equipped with Honda's SPORT HYBRID SH-AWD® (Super Handling - All Wheel Drive), which was developed in the pursuit of the joy of driving on a different level, the NSX will carve out a new era for mid-ship super sports cars.
And now, Honda will realize a mid-ship sports model in the small car segment as well.
This is the much-awaited next-generation mini-sports model, the Honda S660 CONCEPT. The Honda S660 CONCEPT features nimble and dynamic driving, outstanding stability and a dynamic design that are only possible with a mid-ship layout.
This model embodies the freewheeling thinking of young Honda engineers, who want to make a cool car that is unique to Honda. Our engineers are devoting their passion and technologies to the development of this model toward the start of mass-production in 2015.
I would like our customers around the world to feel the strong spirit of Honda.
Please keep your expectations high for these two sports models.
Now, future cars cannot simply be fast and cool. They also must not show any compromise in the area of environmental concerns.
Two years ago, we introduced Earth Dreams Technology, Honda's new-generation powertrain technologies which realize both the fun of driving and excellent fuel economy at a high level.
From the Earth Dream Technology series, we made significant advancements especially in the area of hybrid technologies and enhanced our hybrid lineup. We have already introduced the one-motor SPORT HYBRID Intelligent Dual Clutch Drive (i-DCD) and two-motor SPORT HYBRID Intelligent Multi Mode Drive (i-MMD) systems, and soon we will install a three-motor SPORT HYBRID SH-AWD® (Super Handling - All Wheel Drive) system in the Acura RLX and NSX.
Moreover, we have newly developed a 1- to 2-liter class direct injection turbo engine, collectively called "VTEC TURBO". This direct injection turbo system and the downsizing of engine displacement enable class-leading output and environmental performance. This engine will be adopted in stages to our new models in the future.
Ever since its foundation, Honda has grown by winning races. Only one year after the start of automobile sales, Honda participated in F1 racing with our first F1 machine called RA271 in 1964. Many people thought it was a crazy attempt at that time, however, in only the second year, Honda captured its first F1 victory.
Now, Honda will participate in F1 again starting with the 2015 season.
With the introduction of new regulations, competition in the area of environmental technologies will intensify, but we can expect to feed more technologies we cultivate through F1 racing back to our mass-production models. That is the value of our F1 participation.
Just the other day, our new F1 engine under development was fired up for the first time.
Please look forward to hearing the "Honda Music" for the new era.
If we say that F1 is the height of auto racing, the height of motorcycle racing is MotoGP, the premier class of the Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix. In this most prestigious motorcycle series, Honda won all three titles -- namely, rider, constructor and team, for the first time in two years. Moreover, Marc Márquez, won the championship at the age of 20 years and 8 months, realizing a historic accomplishment by breaking the record of Freddie Spencer for youngest champion that had stood for 30 years. I would like to thank Honda fans for their continuous support.
Honda's corporate slogan is "The Power of Dreams."
We will introduce a series of exciting sports models which are filled with Honda's dreams and ideas. Moreover we will continue providing our customers around the world with our "outside-the-box" advanced creations realized by Honda associates working at the spot in various areas -- including racing, fundamental research, and the development of mass-production models. Please keep your expectations high for Honda in the future!
Thank you very much for coming today!
#2311
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^^^^^
Instead of continuing to fix and improve upon that turbo-I4, Honda gave up after the single attempt, due to nothing but bad feedback with that turbo-I4 being rough, laggy, and fuel-thirsty.
However, Audi and BMW have been churning out one after another turbo/super charging engines.
Instead of continuing to fix and improve upon that turbo-I4, Honda gave up after the single attempt, due to nothing but bad feedback with that turbo-I4 being rough, laggy, and fuel-thirsty.
However, Audi and BMW have been churning out one after another turbo/super charging engines.
I'd imagine Honda learned quite a bit from their k23T in the RDX...so it was worth it perhaps
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#2312
Safety Car
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Honda recently invited us to its research center and test track at Tochigi, Japan, to preview a number of powertrain technologies the company is working on and which will likely see production in the future.
While we can only offer limited evaluations based on our 1- or 2-lap track test drives, we can give you an idea of what to expect from Honda’s future cars. Test drives included Honda’s new line of turbocharged 3- and 4-cylinder engines, a new 8-speed dual-clutch transmission with torque converter, a steer-by-wire system and a prototype vehicle built from lightweight carbon-fiber composites rather than aluminum and steel. All of these technologies are prototypes and are not production-ready.
1.0-liter Turbocharged Inline 3-Cylinder Engine
![](https://image.motortrend.com/f/roadtests/hatchbacks/1312_quick_drive_honda_turbo_engines_future_powertrain_tech/59309375/Honda-Civic-Euro-hatch-1-liter-test-car.jpg)
Envisioned as a replacement for small, naturally aspirated 4-cylinder engines, this turbocharged I-3 makes 127 hp and 148 lb-ft of torque. That’s more than the 117 hp and 106 lb-ft from the 1.5-liter I-4 of the outgoing U.S.-spec Honda Fit. The difference is, the turbocharger gives this engine a better torque curve with more mid-range punch, so drivers won’t have to absolutely wring it out to get good acceleration.
We sampled this engine in a European-spec Civic hatchback, where it performed comparably to any other Civic-sized car currently on the market. Overall acceleration was about the same, but accelerating in gear, such as to pass, was improved thanks to the turbo torque. Top-gear acceleration, such as passing on the highway, was pretty good, though you needed to floor it to really move. The engine was generally quite smooth with very linear power delivery.
On the down side, this particular engine was in need of some more fine-tuning, as it would occasionally surge rather than accelerate linearly. A Honda engineer assured me, naturally, that this issue would be eliminated before the engine goes into production.
1.5-liter Turbocharged Inline 4-Cylinder Engine
![](https://image.motortrend.com/f/roadtests/hatchbacks/1312_quick_drive_honda_turbo_engines_future_powertrain_tech/59309645/Acura-ILX-turbo-15-test-car.jpg)
Like the 3-cylinder, this turbocharged 4 is meant to replace a larger 4-cylinder engine, say something in the 2.0-2.5-liter range. With 201 hp and 192 lb-ft of torque onboard, it’s well-positioned to do that. Like the 3-cylinder, this engine feels comparable in total performance to the engine it’s trying to replace but offers more punch in the mid-range. It also delivers very smooth, linear power. Go all the way to the floor and it’s even reasonably quick in a midsize sedan like our Accord tester.
On the not-ready-for-production side, we noticed the engine was rather loud under acceleration and could be coarse at low RPM, just off idle. We also noticed that our CVT-equipped tester was cruising at 70 mph at 2200 RPM, which seemed at least 500 RPM high. Honda again assures us these issues will be addressed.
2.0-liter Turbocharged Inline 4-Cylinder Engine
![](https://image.motortrend.com/f/roadtests/hatchbacks/1312_quick_drive_honda_turbo_engines_future_powertrain_tech/61880482/Honda-Civic-Type-R-with-Earth-Dreams-engine-front-side-view.jpg)
This engine is a different story. While it may be called in the future to replace a V-6 engine, our test vehicle was a European-spec Civic Type R and it was tuned for performance, full-stop. And what an engine it is!
With “275+ horsepower” and 295 lb-ft of torque onboard, this car was a riot. Hit the “R” button on the dash and at any RPM you get an impressively strong push back into the seat. That a turbo-4 could feel this strong makes you giddy, and you keep flooring it just to get that rush again. The engine revs very quickly and pulls evenly all the way up the dial. In-gear acceleration is strong, but you’ll want to downshift just for that extra pull.
If we had complaints, they would be that it torque-steers a bit when you launch hard. Another is that the throttle is too sensitive in R mode. We also noticed the exhaust was a bit dark, meaning the engine will require more tuning to meet emissions regulations, which we hope won’t spoil the power delivery. We very much hope to see this engine just as it is in a U.S.-spec performance model as soon as possible.
8-Speed Dual-Clutch Transmission with Torque Converter
![](https://image.motortrend.com/f/roadtests/hatchbacks/1312_quick_drive_honda_turbo_engines_future_powertrain_tech/59308493/Honda-Accord-test-vehicle-eight-speed-dual-clutch-transmission-front-view.jpg)
This sounds odd, so let us explain 1st. This transmission uses both a torque converter and a dual-clutch system. A typical dual-clutch transmission replaces the torque converter with twin wet or dry clutches. Honda’s transmission instead leaves the torque converter where it is and places the clutches on the 2 gear shafts, each controlling half the gears. Honda says this was actually quite easy to do because its automatic transmissions never used planetary gears but were more similar to automated manual transmissions, but with torque converters instead of dry clutches. This new unit actually weighs about the same as Honda’s old 5-speed.
The reason for all this complexity is to get best-of-both-worlds driveability. While DCTs shift faster than conventional automatics and tend to be more efficient, they struggle with vibrations and smooth clutch engagement when starting from a stop. Honda therefore kept the torque converter and uses it to move the car smoothly away from a stop like an automatic would. The torque converter then quickly locks up and the dual clutches take over and do all the shifting. Thus, you get smooth launches and super quick shifts, as well as better efficiency.
In the real world, the prototype delivered on its promises. Leaving a stop was no different than any traditional torque converter automatic, with smooth acceleration and no hint of chatter or balkiness from the transmission. Once under way, the transmission changed gears lightening quick and so smoothly that we almost couldn’t feel them happen. Response to the paddle shifters was nearly instantaneous as well.
This prototype struggled, though, with some downshifts. While some were smooth, others were harsh and abrupt. Engineers grimaced and admitted the software needed more work to eliminate those instances. Absent that problem, this transmission seems almost ready for prime time and could offer a compelling alternative to balky DCTs and slow-shifting automatics.
Steer-By-Wire
![](https://image.motortrend.com/f/roadtests/hatchbacks/1312_quick_drive_honda_turbo_engines_future_powertrain_tech/59308973/Honda-Accord-Euro-test-car-steer-by-wire.jpg)
With the advent of electric power-steering racks, steer-by-wire is the next logical step as cars incorporate more safety systems and we advance towards autonomous driving. Disconnecting the steering wheel from the steering rack allows automakers to reduce vibration transmitted into the cabin as well as correct for crowned roads and crosswinds, or simply steer autonomously, all without the driver knowing it.
Honda’s solution is a very good 1. It’s 1st time out the door and still a prototype, but based on our time in the test car, Honda’s unit is hands-down better than Infiniti’s much-maligned (but recently updated) production system in the new Q50. Driving around a tight winding track in an otherwise stock Accord sedan, it feels barely any different than any of the regular electric power-steering systems found in production cars today. The only really noticeable difference is the complete lack of steering feedback and feel, as Honda hasn’t tried yet to simulate road vibrations in the steering wheel.
Steering response, even when driving hard, was very linear and it always felt like we were getting exactly the amount of steering at the wheels as we were commanding at the steering wheel. The steering wheel felt nicely weighted for a family sedan and the weight built naturally with steering input. In short, it felt like driving any other family sedan.
Aside from the lack of feel, the only other drawback was a lack of reaction during understeer. Normally, steering wheels tend to get light when a car understeers and you can feel the lack of grip. When pushing this prototype to the point of understeer, there was no change in the steering weight to signal that the front tires weren’t gripping. We hope Honda decides to simulate that effect in the future so that drivers will be more aware that they’ve exceeded the limits of grip.
Super Light Structure
![](https://image.motortrend.com/f/roadtests/hatchbacks/1312_quick_drive_honda_turbo_engines_future_powertrain_tech/59308670/Honda-CR-Z-test-car-super-light-structure-front-view.jpg)
Like all automakers, Honda is aggressively researching weight-saving technologies, as weight is the enemy of performance and efficiency. Naturally, that means the company is researching carbon-fiber and carbon-fiber reinforced plastics (CFRPs) as ways to bring down weight without sacrificing strength and, ultimately, crashworthiness.
To illustrate what they’ve learned so far, Honda built a CR-Z hybrid on an all-new carbon-fiber monocoque tub with aluminum sub-frames for the engine and front and rear suspension. Though not a drop-in replacement for the standard metal frame, the new carbon-fiber tub weighs just 176 pounds. Replacing the metal body panels with carbon-fiber and glass-fiber-reinforced thermoplastic pieces cut the weight of the body in half. The lighter-weight body and frame then allowed Honda to reduce the size of the wheel hubs, brakes, wheels and steering system as well, and further savings could be found in smaller tires and a smaller drivetrain. In total, Honda took 661 pounds off this CR-Z, a 30-percent reduction compared to stock. The engineers say that’s good for a 30-percent improvement in 0-to-60 mph acceleration and a 20-percent improvement in fuel economy, jumping it to a combined 40 mpg on the U.S. test, up from 34-37 in production cars today. We've tested manual-transmission U.S.-spec CR-Zs accelerating from 0-60 mph in 8.3 and 8.4 seconds.
Of course, this test car is a long way from production. The massive side rails of the tub make the door sills very high, so Honda installed what amount to power-operated T-tops in the roof to make more room for entry and egress. The seat is a racing bucket and the interior is only half-present. But, Honda says, it has a bone-stock drivetrain. That’s impressive, because it feels a whole lot quicker than stock.
Not only is straight-line acceleration improved, but throttle response is better across the board. Whether making a pass or powering out of a corner, the car feels like it has much more power and a more linear delivery. Upon entering those corners, the car feels more nimble and balanced, changing directions very quickly and in total control. We were able to place the car exactly where we wanted it on the road thanks to our confidence in its super predictable handling and response. It’s a shame this exact car won’t ever be for sale, as it’s a very fun little sports car very much in the vein of the vaunted Subaru BRZ.
While we may not get this exact car, don’t bet against seeing carbon-fiber technology in future Hondas. The engineers say they’re working on ways to speed-up and automate the construction process to make it viable for mass production. Currently, carbon-fiber must be laid by hand in a time- and labor-intensive process.
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MuGen7Modulo (12-29-2013)
#2313
▒JDM ¥ KING▒
^Very soon you'll know what's the replacement for your TSX.
The next big thing for Honda is the "2.0-liter Turbocharged Inline 4-Cylinder Engine".
Can't wait!
The next big thing for Honda is the "2.0-liter Turbocharged Inline 4-Cylinder Engine".
Can't wait!
Last edited by MuGen7Modulo; 12-29-2013 at 11:24 AM.
#2314
Moderator
#2315
Watch, they'll put that 3-cylinder turbo in the ILX when they can put the 2.0L turbo.
#2316
Senior Moderator
#2318
I don't know about the Steer-By-Wire. The Infiniti one sucks arse. Give me an old fashion hydraulic steering system, please.
#2319
Very intriguing tech to say the least. The CFRP with t-tops caught my eye
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#2320
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