dom

I don't think anyone expects or even wants Acura to shoehorn a V8 into the current gen RL.

Ikko

Huh??? WTF does that mean?

mrdeeno

funny, i think i heard the same thing...10 years ago.

Moog-Type-S

The current RL is DOA....it should be pushed aside as quickly as the CL was.

biker

Well if the design is not any better it won't help the next gen either.

aesir11

Hahah! Mrdeeno on a RAMPAGE! He's got a lot of really good points!

dom

:ibGM:

dom

Absolutely. They need to get the entire package right. And a V8 should be a part of that package.

aesir11

The car is no more conservative than most of MBs highline (S, CL, etc.) or the LS for that matter. In fact the only luxury brand I see out there without conservative styling is the BMW 7 series, which recently toned down its curves to a more conservative note.

mrdeeno

depends on who you're asking.

to some i make some sense. to others i'm honda/acura bashing.

And yet to others, i'm a racists white-supremancists mexican immigrant worker that must be banned immediately.

dom

Fxed.

Mokos23

Well Mrdeeno, F234, MaximaPower, and I forgot there were 2 more pro-Nissan people on here. It's cool to have Nissan/Infiniti fans on here. There have been some Acura to Infiniti converts like Tireguy who went from a TSX to a 07 G35x.

All I know is that I hope Acura never releases that ugly sedan concept with a V8. That would be the ultimate betrayal to Acura owners out that.

phile

And DownUnder, but I haven't seen a post from him in a long time.

csmeance

right now alot of have assumed that the v8 will be in the RL, but what if this was to go into the new acura sports car that will being in the 2009-2011 area, that would make matters change alot. Also may i just add again that acura won't switch to RWD as they thing SH-AWD is better for saftey and some other reasons.

aesir11

Rumor is that there will be V10 in the next NSX... assuming they actually produce this car they've only been talking about since like 2001.

When did the HSC concept or whatever come out? The hybrid one?

Speaking of that I saw a 02+ NSX today and lunch, gorgeous in red. I think I've seen it in all the colors except the Orange and Blue now.

biker

Good one.

Well, Acura certainly has some time to get the next RL right but the general look/feel might be hinted at in the next TSX which is just around the corner. Seeing how all makers are going for the "corporate" look, the next RL could just be a bigger version of the TSX.

promax

Honda not only needs the V8 for the RL, but also for the MDX, Ridgeline, and possibly the TL-S and Pilot. It's all about options. Having the option for a V8 in these vehicles is nice.

Honda is falling behind lately. Where's their 6AT?

Acura needs distance itself from Honda. Let Honda offer FWD and AWD. Acura offer RWD and SH-AWD. Honda can use trim levels like LX, EX, SE, Si, etc. but Acura should offer more options besides just Tech and Entertainment Package. Offer better leather and paint. All windows should have auto up/down. Driver and passenger need heated power seats that are more than 8 way adjustable and have more than just 2 levels for heat settings.

The next gen models should get:
TSX - choice of RWD or SH-AWD and choice of 2.3L T or small V6
TL - RWD or SH-AWD, 3.5L V6 or detuned V8 from RL
RDX - SH-AWD, 2.3L T or V6
MDX - SH-AWD, 3.7L V6 or V* from RL tuned for more lowend torque
RL - RWD or SH-AWD, 3.7L V6 or V8
NSX - V10

csmeance

Honda won't do that for acura because their main theme is to be as conserative on gas as possible. Thats why youy have the LEV stickekers along with ULEV on alot of the hondas.

heyitsme

The fact that an auto company will go to the lengths to build a ~100k car for the 2nd time, v10 powered rwd sportscar, a car that will set a mark for the company well into the future, yet they can't even build a rwd platform for their REAL LUXURY LINEUP? That is just pathetic imo. This is like 1990 all over again where Acuras above 35k are lost and they get lost behind Lexus/Infiniti.

biker

They just don't have the resources and the volume to justify RWD platforms. They'll go the Audi route.

I assume most folks believe Audi is distanced enough from the parent VW. Audi has no RWD platform for its luxury line but they're doing OK. Audi shares most of its stuff with VW models yet they pull off being different enough that people don't mind. If Audi reliability was anywhere the Asian brands they'd be doing much better. In some places in Europe the A6 sells better than 5 series/E class - despite not having a RWD platform. It's not the platform nor the availability of a V8 that made the A6 successful in Europe - it was a nice design with a real good interior.

biker

It just occurred to me - is the next GT-R being handicapped by not having a V8?

mrdeeno

I totally disagree with this statement.

if they didn't have resources to develop a RWD platform or V8 that can potentially be used on a variety of VOLUME models, then it is utterly STUPID of them to be spending millions on a very low volume platform that will underpin ONE model and an engine that will be used on ONE model...and a very low volume model at that.

They have the resources, but the people deciding where to spend the money are a bunch of idiots out of touch with the auto industry.

Acura shouldn't need to be "pushing" for a V8. Honda corporate should be able to anticipate the needs of the market for Acura and given a V8 to them years ago. The fact that Acura has to "push" at all for a V8 shows how out of touch Honda is concerning the premium market.

phile

I don't think they're "out of touch," but rather, they emphasize Honda a whole lot more than Acura. One of the top executives, hell I think it was the CEO himself, who said without Honda, there would be no Acura. That tells you right there which one of their brands is the top priority.

mrdeeno

that's true, that without Honda, there would be no Acura but that's doesn't mean they can't be out of touch with Acura's market (the RL in particular)...the same applies to Toyota and Nissan, Lexus and Infiniti wouldn't be around if it wasn't for the former...yet they aren't out of touch with the luxury market as much as Honda is.

Hondas are successful because they are in line with its markets...the accord is designed and marketed as it should be in the family segment, the civic in the upper entry level segment, the pilot in the family SUV segment, etc.

The TL is successful because its design and marketing is in line with its market...a near-luxury car priced at the near-luxury segment offering value and decent performance.

The RL is not successful because its design and marketing is not in line with the midsize luxury market. Options? Very few. Engine choices? Nope. Design? Decent but on the conservative end. Value? Too much value for this segment.

Toyota and Nissan look to their competitors and look to the market and anticipate what each segment of the market wants and design a car that fits in that particular segment. All successful makes do this, including Honda. But they seem to have neglected this step when they designed the RL.

Honda's design for the RL seems to disregard the competitors and produces a car for the Honda market but prices it out of reach of Honda customers. Why are they basing design and marketing decisions on what works for the Honda market when they are trying to sell a car in the luxury market? To me, that is being out of touch.

heyitsme

Wow, that was spiritual, yet I'm glad Inifinti, a company that sold less than Acura was able to switch to RWD without breaking a sweat. All your Audi talk went to hell in one sentence. Even still, Audi isn't a Player like BMW and MB.

gavriil

No. Same for the 911s, etc.

Like I said, Acura needs a V8 or bigger, because it needs bigger and heavier vehicles. Porsche developed a V8 for the Cayene and even force fed it because it was needed. It's all about what type of vehicle you're trying to design.

gavriil

I disagree about the more than two heat levels and more than 8 way power seats, etc. That can maybe make sense to a halo product ala-Lexus-LS which they dont even have currently.

No way RWD makes sense for the TSX for Acura. Acura will probably do what Audi did and go the RWD-biased-AWD feature for some models. And stop there. In reality you dont need more than that. People dont buy BMWs because of RWD. They buy them because of the control they give drivers, in everyday driving conditions (mostly in the dry). Acura engineers are capable of tuning a SHAWD platform to feel as controled as a BMW (at up to 90% of its capacity). No one goes beyond that and no one cares about going beyond that.

I am sure the TL will go the SHAWD way in the next year or two, however there is no need for a V8 unless it gets significantly heavier. A few more ponies from the 3.5L engine or maybe putting the 3.7L from the MDX in the TL equipped with SHAWD should be fine. The problem is it's not happening quick enough. If it were available now, for the same price, it'd be a hit I believe. What the TL needs the most is a better exterior design, to sell better. Its price is fine, its hardware is fine, its utility and craftsmanship is fine also.

There is no way the RDX will go the V6 route any time soon, unless if they introduce a Type S model which I still doubt it will happen (if they do, it will probably be a 300HP version of the same force fed engine).

Now, the MDX can use a V8, no doubt. It got porky with this new iteration and the 3.7L is barely enough for its price. A Type S model should have a significantly larger engine, say by about at least 700cc.

Same for the RL. It can use a V8, but even more, it can use more room in the rear which means its wheelbase needs to get larger, which means it will get heavier, which means a V8 is necessary as an option. Also, it needs a major exterior redesign.

NSX. Who cares. That is of little interest to Acura for volume, they only need it as a halo car to show they can compete at the super sport level and from what we hear from the rumors, they will be fine with the next NSX. They will not go cheap with that one.

promax

Sure more is not needed, but for luxury vehicles, consumers want excess features for bragging rights that will probably never be used at all.

And not only the LS has these features.

Lexus ES350: 10-Way Power Adjustable Seats (including lumbar) with memory for both driver and passenger.

Lexus IS 250: 10-Way Power Adjustable Seats (including lumbar) with memory for both driver and passenger.

Lexus GS 350: 10-Way Power Adjustable Seats (including lumbar) with memory for both driver and passenger.

Lexus LS 460: 16-way driver's (including dual-function lumbar) and 12-way front passenger's (including lumbar) power seats

How does Acura expect to be considered in the same league as Lexus when their IS 250 has 10-Way Power Adjustable Seats with memory for both driver and passenger and the RL has a 8-way power seat for driver and only a 4-way power passenger seat?

I'm not saying power seats will make or break the deal. But little advantages like this make the Lexus image much better.

An RWD TSX will be lighter and more cheaper to produce (after development costs) than a SH-AWD TSX. The point is the competition, 3-series, IS, C Class, G all have an option for RWD or AWD.


Yes, a V8 isn't necessary, but a lot gadgets and toys aren't necessary for luxury cars.

Acura should have used a V6 to begin with. Their argument that the turbo 4 is as fuel efficient as a V6 is BS. The 500 lb. heavier MDX gets 17/22 with a big V6 and the RDX gets 19/23. The RDX could have used J30 or J32 and get similar fuel economy.

biker

Infiniti was able to switch because they were able to badge engineer JDM models. Honda has no such models, in any market - they'd have to start from scratch.

Audi could care less if it was a player as long as it sold enough volume - same for Acura.

except it will still be FWD biased.

mrdeeno

Considering that the TSX, TL, RL is based on the same midsize platform, all it would take Honda to start developing RWD cars for Acura is A SINGLE RWD platform.

Imagine that, one rwd platform to underpin THREE models, 2 of which sell very well. But I guess the infinite wisdom of ASIMO has convinced Honda that it's safer to engineer a rwd platform that can be used for only ONE low volume model.

I think whoever presented the risk analysis to the board regarding a flexible-high-volume production RWD model vs. an inflexible-low-volume production RWD had the chart upside down or the "pros" and "cons" column labels reversed.

I don't htink RWD vs. AWD factor is that important, but this also applies to a V8, which can be used in many many models in both the Acura and Honda lines...but again, it's much safer for honda to invest and develop a low-volume V10 for a low-volume model.

LiQiCE

According to the article the V6 Turbodiesel engine is destined for the USA with introductions in 2009 with the Honda Ridgeline, Pilot, Odyssey, and Acura MDX getting the engine.

http://paultan.org/archives/2006/12/...6-turbodiesel/

agranado

The guy who wrote the article sucks ass.

but the information within makes salivate

biker

Anyone could have written that from a bit of history, current on goings and common sense.

I'm not sure why the current 2.2 iCDTi engine needs to go to a new gen for the US market - it only needs the special catalyst technology as a bolt on.

MY09 TSX makes the most sense for the I 4 engine. MY08 offered with the RDX drive train only, then the diesel is added a year later (instead of a hybrid) - calendar year 09 seems too far out.

biker

Don't forget the S2000 platform. Yeah, some things don't seem to make sense to us, but it must to some bean counter/marketeer at Honda.

TSX69

Honda 2 Make Diesel V6 for US by 2010
Honda is apparently developing a low-emission diesel V6 engine specifically designed for the U.S. market for the 2010 model year. The engine would be most likely to appear in the Odyssey minivan at first, although installation in Acura sedans and SUVs is a possibility.

According to Nikkei Weekly, a Japanese weekly newspaper, the motor will be designed for vehicles currently using Honda's 3.5 liter V6 engine. Honda is also looking to import its newly developed 2.2 liter four-cylinder diesel engine to the United States. This engine is designed to fit in cars such as the CR-V and Acura TSX.

LuvMyTSX

Sweet!!!

Except, uh, put the V6 in the Acuras. I don't want an even slower TSX.

biker

The diesel is for mileage not performance. For a faster TSX you'll have the turbo 4.

I just re-read my post above and my prediction came true - Honda dropped the hybrid in favor of a diesel for the Accord.

Oh, and I seriously doubt the V6 would be for US only - they can use that in the Legend and a few other vehicles world wide.

Edward'TLS

Acceleration on flat roads shouldn't be a problem with that much torque on hand, but fast acceleration on steep slopes as well as top speed will suffer which require big horsepower output. Torque is used at low to mid speed end, and horsepower at high speed end.

Texas

Insideline today
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=121757

biker

Nothing really new in that article.