Ford: Mustang News
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Racer
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Philly, Pennsylvania
Ford: Mustang News
wanted to know what the Acura community here thinks of the new Mustang. i like it...........but never really thought about buying a domestic car for daily use. love the power in those engines though.
There will NOT be an '05 Cobra. The Cobra will debut a '06, (start selling in mid '05,) and will not be a 4.6L. It is going to be a 5.4liter 3 Valve supercharged motor. The rated power output is 500BHP. Do the math on that and you'll soon figure that the '05 Cobra will be putting out about 470-490RWHP ('03 Cobra math.)
The GT will be offered in several models, but they'll all be the 4.6. They plan on offering the DOHC and the SOHC, but J. Mays said the SOHC won't be around much longer. The V6 and GT will start selling mid next summer ('04,) and will have a base price of $18k. The front end is different on each the V6, GT, and Cobra. He said in 40 years there'll still be Mustangs. The prototype isn't a 2+2 like all other Mustangs. The release versions will have a back seat. The body on the red prototype convertible is all carbon fiber! He estimated ~2,800lbs. The gauges and/or dash panel won't be the same either. These gauges in this car were all mechanical, and cool as hell! The GT/V6 will be solid rear, and the Cobra will be an IRS. The prototype was an IRS rear end with an '03 Cobra motor and a 5-speed automatic transmission. The GTs will have 18" wheels, Cobra will have 20" wheels.
There will NOT be an '05 Cobra. The Cobra will debut a '06, (start selling in mid '05,) and will not be a 4.6L. It is going to be a 5.4liter 3 Valve supercharged motor. The rated power output is 500BHP. Do the math on that and you'll soon figure that the '05 Cobra will be putting out about 470-490RWHP ('03 Cobra math.)
The GT will be offered in several models, but they'll all be the 4.6. They plan on offering the DOHC and the SOHC, but J. Mays said the SOHC won't be around much longer. The V6 and GT will start selling mid next summer ('04,) and will have a base price of $18k. The front end is different on each the V6, GT, and Cobra. He said in 40 years there'll still be Mustangs. The prototype isn't a 2+2 like all other Mustangs. The release versions will have a back seat. The body on the red prototype convertible is all carbon fiber! He estimated ~2,800lbs. The gauges and/or dash panel won't be the same either. These gauges in this car were all mechanical, and cool as hell! The GT/V6 will be solid rear, and the Cobra will be an IRS. The prototype was an IRS rear end with an '03 Cobra motor and a 5-speed automatic transmission. The GTs will have 18" wheels, Cobra will have 20" wheels.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 403
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From: Philly, Pennsylvania
Got it from this website
http://bradbarnett.net/mustangs/concept/s197/
Straight from J Mays via member of Deadhorse Mustangs in Oklahoma
Practical as in interior space, trunk space? At least the production version will attempt to seat 4.
http://bradbarnett.net/mustangs/concept/s197/
Straight from J Mays via member of Deadhorse Mustangs in Oklahoma
Practical as in interior space, trunk space? At least the production version will attempt to seat 4.
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 9,263
Likes: 2
From: Lenexa, KS
Originally posted by gavriil
I do believe the above for the Cobra. It will go against the C6 Z06.
I do believe the above for the Cobra. It will go against the C6 Z06.
Although in the 1/4 mile, if the weight of the Cobra is near 3200lbs it'll be a good race.
I for one am waiting to get a 06 Cobra. It's badass. I just hope Ford doesn't let me down and the design is close to the concept.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,426
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From: philly
i dunno, the lack of ind rear on the gt is a real turn off for me. the raw 'musclecar' era is over, time to grow up and let all models have it or at least have a package (other than cobra) that has it. also i think it would do more for the car to have the return of the 5.0 rather than the 5.4.
the 2000cobra r got beat by the old zo6 i don't see this newer generation being any different, ford seems unable/unwilling to keep the weight down.
the 2000cobra r got beat by the old zo6 i don't see this newer generation being any different, ford seems unable/unwilling to keep the weight down.
TQ > MPG
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,624
Likes: 8
From: Metro Detroit
I love the design, but will wait for the production models to make a final opinion. They need to have 300hp in the GT, a midlevel plate like the Boss or Mach 1 with close to 400hp N/A, and a SC Cobra packing like it stated 500hp to really own the market.
Plus, put a decent interior in it and it will sell like crazy.
To be honest I'm glad they are staying solid rear axle. Nothing ruins the fun of rwd like axle hop.
Plus, put a decent interior in it and it will sell like crazy.
To be honest I'm glad they are staying solid rear axle. Nothing ruins the fun of rwd like axle hop.
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Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: philly
To be honest I'm glad they are staying solid rear axle. Nothing ruins the fun of rwd like axle hop.
i didn't see any wheel hop on car and driver tv this morning as they did a couple burnouts in the cobra.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,426
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From: philly
ford and their cost cutting 
, i hope this is just bs and all the cars get the dews suspension.
, i hope this is just bs and all the cars get the dews suspension.
Monday, March 24, 2003
Finance, focus, and the fate of Ford's Special Vehicle Team
By Paul Lienert / Special to Autos Insider
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Just as General Motors and the Chrysler Group are ramping up their performance vehicle operations, I get the impression that Ford's own in-house performance group, the vaunted Special Vehicle Team, is in danger of losing its autonomy and focus.
Worse still, replacements for SVT's core products, the Mustang Cobra and the F-150 Lightning, are months behind schedule, leaving a potentially embarrassing gap in Ford's performance-vehicle lineup. Even if everything goes right, the next-generation Lightning probably won't reach dealerships until model year 2006, while the next-generation Cobra may not hit the street until model year 2007--a year later than planned for both products.
And the next-generation SVT Focus? May not even happen, according to the speculation among suppliers.
Chalk up some of the pain to Dearborn's continuing financial crunch. Even SVT's relatively modest $35 million annual budget is coming under the scrutiny of the corporate cost cutters. Why not absorb SVT into the larger Ford Performance Group--which makes truck bedliners, among other products--and let the regular engineering group take over development of the SVT vehicles? goes one internal argument.
Why not indeed?
I'm old enough to remember fiascos like the ill-planned and poorly executed Merkur strategy to give Lincoln-Mercury dealers a "performance import" brand. I also recall more than a few tepid attempts to create "performance niche products" over the past thirty years. Is it just a coincidence that the best and most effective of these models were done when Ford had strong product guys in positions of power--guys like Lee Iacocca and Bob Lutz?
Despite its recent hiccups, including chronic engine problems with the Cobra, SVT deserves credit over the past decade for developing some of the most solid go-fast street hardware in the company's 100-year history. I've driven everything in the current SVT lineup, and it's an impressive range, particularly the SVT Focus hatchbacks, which pack an astonishing amount of power and entertainment into an inexpensive package.
Ford previewed the next SVT Lightning in January at the Detroit show and hinted that it would trail the introduction of the new F-150 by about a year. In the flesh and on paper, it looks pretty terrific. Except that suppliers are now saying that development work has yet to begin in earnest, and the truck could be delayed until late 2004 or early 2005, if not longer.
The next Cobra is in more serious straits. We began hearing rumblings last December that Team Mustang was going through the S197--the DEW98-based replacement for the current Mustang that is scheduled to begin production in fall 2004. Suppliers say the Mustang product planners, in an effort to shave piece costs, began gutting the DEW chassis. The independent rear suspension was the first thing to go, replaced by a solid axle. Then the front end reverted to a strut-type setup. All of a sudden, this new "modern" Mustang was beginning to look an awful lot like the current car, which is based on the aging Fox platform that dates to the Seventies and the old Ford Fairmont.
Problem is, a stripped-down chassis like this is no platform for a Cobra in sophistication, handling capability, ride quality, or the ability to handle 400-plus horsepower. So SVT now faces the gargantuan--and expensive--task of re-engineering a new IRS for the next Cobra.
Likewise, a normally aspirated 5.0-liter version of the 4.6-liter "mod" V-8 that was planned for the new Cobra reportedly has fallen victim to the cost cutters and is likely to be replaced by a supercharged 4.6, which undoubtedly will be heavier and more complex, not to mention just as expensive as the 5.0.
Vendors tell me that very little development work has been done on a replacement for the SVT Focus, even though the successor to the regular Focus is due to reach the market late next year. So even if SVT does manage to find the budget, don't expect the next-generation model to commence production before 2006-07.
I can't help but wonder if SVT would have been better protected if its last patron, Neil Ressler, hadn't taken early retirement. Ressler is still working as a consultant to Ford but is no longer in a position to provide air cover for the good folks at SVT.
In more ways than one, his departure could prove to be not just Ford's loss, but GM's and Chrysler's very real gain.
You can reach Paul Lienert at plienert@globalauto.net.
Finance, focus, and the fate of Ford's Special Vehicle Team
By Paul Lienert / Special to Autos Insider
Comment on this story
Send this story to a friend
Get Home Delivery
Just as General Motors and the Chrysler Group are ramping up their performance vehicle operations, I get the impression that Ford's own in-house performance group, the vaunted Special Vehicle Team, is in danger of losing its autonomy and focus.
Worse still, replacements for SVT's core products, the Mustang Cobra and the F-150 Lightning, are months behind schedule, leaving a potentially embarrassing gap in Ford's performance-vehicle lineup. Even if everything goes right, the next-generation Lightning probably won't reach dealerships until model year 2006, while the next-generation Cobra may not hit the street until model year 2007--a year later than planned for both products.
And the next-generation SVT Focus? May not even happen, according to the speculation among suppliers.
Chalk up some of the pain to Dearborn's continuing financial crunch. Even SVT's relatively modest $35 million annual budget is coming under the scrutiny of the corporate cost cutters. Why not absorb SVT into the larger Ford Performance Group--which makes truck bedliners, among other products--and let the regular engineering group take over development of the SVT vehicles? goes one internal argument.
Why not indeed?
I'm old enough to remember fiascos like the ill-planned and poorly executed Merkur strategy to give Lincoln-Mercury dealers a "performance import" brand. I also recall more than a few tepid attempts to create "performance niche products" over the past thirty years. Is it just a coincidence that the best and most effective of these models were done when Ford had strong product guys in positions of power--guys like Lee Iacocca and Bob Lutz?
Despite its recent hiccups, including chronic engine problems with the Cobra, SVT deserves credit over the past decade for developing some of the most solid go-fast street hardware in the company's 100-year history. I've driven everything in the current SVT lineup, and it's an impressive range, particularly the SVT Focus hatchbacks, which pack an astonishing amount of power and entertainment into an inexpensive package.
Ford previewed the next SVT Lightning in January at the Detroit show and hinted that it would trail the introduction of the new F-150 by about a year. In the flesh and on paper, it looks pretty terrific. Except that suppliers are now saying that development work has yet to begin in earnest, and the truck could be delayed until late 2004 or early 2005, if not longer.
The next Cobra is in more serious straits. We began hearing rumblings last December that Team Mustang was going through the S197--the DEW98-based replacement for the current Mustang that is scheduled to begin production in fall 2004. Suppliers say the Mustang product planners, in an effort to shave piece costs, began gutting the DEW chassis. The independent rear suspension was the first thing to go, replaced by a solid axle. Then the front end reverted to a strut-type setup. All of a sudden, this new "modern" Mustang was beginning to look an awful lot like the current car, which is based on the aging Fox platform that dates to the Seventies and the old Ford Fairmont.
Problem is, a stripped-down chassis like this is no platform for a Cobra in sophistication, handling capability, ride quality, or the ability to handle 400-plus horsepower. So SVT now faces the gargantuan--and expensive--task of re-engineering a new IRS for the next Cobra.
Likewise, a normally aspirated 5.0-liter version of the 4.6-liter "mod" V-8 that was planned for the new Cobra reportedly has fallen victim to the cost cutters and is likely to be replaced by a supercharged 4.6, which undoubtedly will be heavier and more complex, not to mention just as expensive as the 5.0.
Vendors tell me that very little development work has been done on a replacement for the SVT Focus, even though the successor to the regular Focus is due to reach the market late next year. So even if SVT does manage to find the budget, don't expect the next-generation model to commence production before 2006-07.
I can't help but wonder if SVT would have been better protected if its last patron, Neil Ressler, hadn't taken early retirement. Ressler is still working as a consultant to Ford but is no longer in a position to provide air cover for the good folks at SVT.
In more ways than one, his departure could prove to be not just Ford's loss, but GM's and Chrysler's very real gain.
You can reach Paul Lienert at plienert@globalauto.net.
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 8
From: Washington DC (NOVA)
That aint photoshop! Can it? The interior makes a lot of sense. Not only it looks a lot like the concept car's interior, but also it's got design clues from the newly introduced F150 truck. It all makes sense.
This must be the real thing!
This must be the real thing!
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 8
From: Washington DC (NOVA)
Originally posted by Nashua_Night_Hawk
the dash sucks balls... 50s style!
the dash sucks balls... 50s style!
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,426
Likes: 0
From: philly
yup, that looks like it. interior matches another spy pic from a while back with only one exhaust. seems to be a big step up in the right direction inside 
not sure about the outside, sorts of looks like they killed the beauty of the conept. the rear is too mainstream. fogs look like they're from rally car.
not sure about the outside, sorts of looks like they killed the beauty of the conept. the rear is too mainstream. fogs look like they're from rally car.
Disproportionate Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 538
Likes: 0
From: Austin, Texas
OMG those are the same crappy seats I had in my 99 Cobra, with different headrests. How NOT to design a car:
Meet the new king; he's just like the old king. Poor John Colletti has to clean up this mess on behalf of SVT.
- Take a modern, RWD world-class chassis (DEW98), also used in the Lincoln LS and Jaguar S-Type
- Make it out of steel instead of lightweight aluminum, making sure it's picked up enough weight to make it even more of a dog than it already will be with a stock 3.0 V6 Vulcan engine which debuted with the 1986 Taurus. I don't know if the Mustang is getting the Duratec V6 (I doubt it, but I have no knowledge one way or the other), and even it it were, that engine lags behind just about any Japanese V6
- Retrofit a fixed-axle suspension onto it, circa 1960ish, just to make sure there's enough low-tech to qualify it as a mass-produced American vehicle.
- Make it stylish but trendy, so that it sells like hotcakes the first 12 months of manufacture, only to decline rapidly when word gets out that you made fundamentally bad engineering decisions to make it cost under 20K (ignoring for the fact that the Hyundai Tiburon also lists for under 20k and will be a more modern car)
- Give it a name that people identify with an American icon, regardless of it's worth. Let's face it, the Mustang was a crappy car that looked good when it's released, and they're about to replace it with another crappy car that looks good.
- Let's bring it to market 3 years after we originally said we would, just so we can keep the 1978 Ford Fairmount chassis in production for almost 30 years
Meet the new king; he's just like the old king. Poor John Colletti has to clean up this mess on behalf of SVT.
The Creator
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 37,950
Likes: 8
From: Albany, NY
its definately not bad... but very cheap looking in and out.
they took the edge away from the concept. and the interior is just vanilla as can be. but its definately not as ugly as tradition.
they took the edge away from the concept. and the interior is just vanilla as can be. but its definately not as ugly as tradition.
I have no interest in this car now.
Masshole
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,390
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
Are these the pictures that we can no longer see?
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index....topic=781&st=0
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index....topic=781&st=0
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 8
From: Washington DC (NOVA)
Originally posted by EdgarFanCLS
Are these the pictures that we can no longer see?
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index....topic=781&st=0
Are these the pictures that we can no longer see?
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index....topic=781&st=0
TQ > MPG
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,624
Likes: 8
From: Metro Detroit
I think any alterations to the concept are gonna be a letdown, but they couldnt make the concept for $25k and be profitable. I'm not 100% sold on the interior just yet, but it at least looks better than the 94-04 by leaps & bounds. And if you are worried about it looking boring stock - it will, thats just the way it is. That is until Saleen, Roush, SVT, Steeda, and just about every single major aftermarket company gets their hands on the new design. 
I'm more worried about the hp/tq numbers and curb weight.
I'm more worried about the hp/tq numbers and curb weight.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 7,601
Likes: 0
From: VA
every retro dash, I like if I was 60+ . THe front end looks good and also very retro but the rally fogs gotta go. or may be have it as an option to opt out. The tails looks just like any other mass produced car, I really loved the concept...
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 8
From: Washington DC (NOVA)
As I said, my first impression of the interior was that it took major design clues of the new F150's interior. Which is a good thing.
Compare the three:
’69:
2005
Ford F150 truck
Compare the three:
’69:
2005
Ford F150 truck