Detroit show leaves analysts feeling glum
#1
Detroit show leaves analysts feeling glum
Detroit show leaves analysts feeling glum -- By Bradford Wernle - - Source: Automotive News
For analyst Kevin Tynan of Argus Research, the Detroit auto show is an annual love-in, usually followed by a hangover.
"As a car guy, you love it," says Argus. "There are shiny cars everywhere. But from the perspective of being an analyst and looking at what's in store for 2006, nothing I saw there changes my outlook for 2006. It's going to be a more difficult year than 2005.
"If the proof is in the numbers, year after year we come out of the show with optimism, and by midyear we're scrambling for answers."
Last year will go down in history as one of the worst for General Motors and Ford Motor Co. Their stocks and credit ratings took a pounding.
This auto show was their big chance to prove they've got the gee-whiz products that might restore faith in brands tarnished by the relentless discounting of the last year.
But nothing analysts saw in Detroit has changed their opinions.
Morgan Stanley analyst Jonathan Steinmetz said in a research note: "A tour around the auto show convinces us that market share stability is going to be difficult for GM and Ford to achieve."
Unimpressed
Brett Hoselton, analyst for KeyBanc Capital Markets, saw the Detroit show as a somber affair from an investor point of view.
"I continue to be unimpressed with what Ford is doing," said Hoselton. "When I walk through their displays and see some of their crossovers, their product seems kind of like a knockoff. The Ford Edge looks like a cross between a Nissan Murano and a Lexus RX 330.
"They look at everybody else and see what is selling and say, 'We'll design something that looks like that,'" said Hoselton.
"Their product development is woeful. They're playing it safe, and they can't afford to do that."
Steinmetz also took a dim view of Ford's prospects: "While we liked Ford's new products, we walked away from the show marginally more negative on Ford, given the number of competitors targeting what we believe are Ford's most profitable vehicles."
GM's announcement at the show that it would slash prices an average of about $1,300 a car on a wide swath of products caught the ear of David Healy of Burnham Securities in New York.
"Their previous pricing strategy consisted of grossly inflated sticker prices offset by grossly inflated incentives," he said. "It didn't say much for the company's view of the intelligence of the average car buyer.
"Getting sticker prices close to transaction prices is a good thing. But it's going to be tough to pull off. Detroit, and especially GM, has trained car buyers to expect big incentives."
Small-car shift
One of the show's biggest trends was the shift to smaller cars, driven by soaring gasoline prices.
"General Motors specifically and Ford, to a smaller degree, are not ready for the shift to smaller vehicles," said Tynan of Argus Research.
Indeed, beneath the glitz of the show, the outlook remains glum.
Morgan Stanley's Steinmetz wrote: "Following an extensive tour of the … show in Detroit and presentations by several OEMs and suppliers, we are retaining our cautious view on the industry."
Hoselton also was feeling flat on the show floor: "In terms of the stocks and so forth, clearly the earnings guidance provided over the last couple of days was not that good. The general tone is somewhat somber. The recognition is that 2006 is not going to be a whole lot different than 2005."
"As a car guy, you love it," says Argus. "There are shiny cars everywhere. But from the perspective of being an analyst and looking at what's in store for 2006, nothing I saw there changes my outlook for 2006. It's going to be a more difficult year than 2005.
"If the proof is in the numbers, year after year we come out of the show with optimism, and by midyear we're scrambling for answers."
Last year will go down in history as one of the worst for General Motors and Ford Motor Co. Their stocks and credit ratings took a pounding.
This auto show was their big chance to prove they've got the gee-whiz products that might restore faith in brands tarnished by the relentless discounting of the last year.
But nothing analysts saw in Detroit has changed their opinions.
Morgan Stanley analyst Jonathan Steinmetz said in a research note: "A tour around the auto show convinces us that market share stability is going to be difficult for GM and Ford to achieve."
Unimpressed
Brett Hoselton, analyst for KeyBanc Capital Markets, saw the Detroit show as a somber affair from an investor point of view.
"I continue to be unimpressed with what Ford is doing," said Hoselton. "When I walk through their displays and see some of their crossovers, their product seems kind of like a knockoff. The Ford Edge looks like a cross between a Nissan Murano and a Lexus RX 330.
"They look at everybody else and see what is selling and say, 'We'll design something that looks like that,'" said Hoselton.
"Their product development is woeful. They're playing it safe, and they can't afford to do that."
Steinmetz also took a dim view of Ford's prospects: "While we liked Ford's new products, we walked away from the show marginally more negative on Ford, given the number of competitors targeting what we believe are Ford's most profitable vehicles."
GM's announcement at the show that it would slash prices an average of about $1,300 a car on a wide swath of products caught the ear of David Healy of Burnham Securities in New York.
"Their previous pricing strategy consisted of grossly inflated sticker prices offset by grossly inflated incentives," he said. "It didn't say much for the company's view of the intelligence of the average car buyer.
"Getting sticker prices close to transaction prices is a good thing. But it's going to be tough to pull off. Detroit, and especially GM, has trained car buyers to expect big incentives."
Small-car shift
One of the show's biggest trends was the shift to smaller cars, driven by soaring gasoline prices.
"General Motors specifically and Ford, to a smaller degree, are not ready for the shift to smaller vehicles," said Tynan of Argus Research.
Indeed, beneath the glitz of the show, the outlook remains glum.
Morgan Stanley's Steinmetz wrote: "Following an extensive tour of the … show in Detroit and presentations by several OEMs and suppliers, we are retaining our cautious view on the industry."
Hoselton also was feeling flat on the show floor: "In terms of the stocks and so forth, clearly the earnings guidance provided over the last couple of days was not that good. The general tone is somewhat somber. The recognition is that 2006 is not going to be a whole lot different than 2005."
#5
There are some good points and not so good points in this article. First, you can tell that these guys know little about Automobiles. This is made apparent when they describe the Edge. All cars look similar and if you knit pick enough have shared styling traits. There is only so much that can be done with sheet metal that is innovative. Lastly, a bold design is risky. If the public doesn't like it, well where does that leave Ford? Up the creek without a paddle. Ford chose the a more conservative, yet modern look. Given Ford's financial status this is the right idea. When and if Ford becomes profitable, they can move towards more cutting edge designs.
#6
Originally Posted by Maximized
There are some good points and not so good points in this article. First, you can tell that these guys know little about Automobiles. This is made apparent when they describe the Edge. All cars look similar and if you knit pick enough have shared styling traits. There is only so much that can be done with sheet metal that is innovative. Lastly, a bold design is risky. If the public doesn't like it, well where does that leave Ford? Up the creek without a paddle. Ford chose the a more conservative, yet modern look. Given Ford's financial status this is the right idea. When and if Ford becomes profitable, they can move towards more cutting edge designs.
The result is a car that anyone would enjoy owning...THATS what they need on all price points.
#7
I also feel the same way as the article writer. For example. Do you remember Chrysler having a big WHAM BAM! presentation every year during the past 2-3 years? That did not happen this year. Other than the Challenger and Camaro, what did Detroit have to show really? In the mainstream area? Where are the better 25K family sedans to steal some of the Camry's thunder? Same with compact SUVs like the RAV4, etc. Nothing there.
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#8
Duuum Da Dum Dum!
'06 should be an interesting year for the American Auto makers. Does anyone think we will see the price slashing again, though not as open as the "employee pricing" campaign in the summer of '05?
'06 should be an interesting year for the American Auto makers. Does anyone think we will see the price slashing again, though not as open as the "employee pricing" campaign in the summer of '05?
#11
Originally Posted by Python2121
Your right about the risks involved in a bold design, but I would argue that they dont need anything risky/innovative, they just need some good engineers and a respectable car. They are on the right path, the C6, for example, didn't take any risks. They made an attrative car, modern technology (they really didn't pioneer anything(leaf springs?)) that just works and drives well.
The result is a car that anyone would enjoy owning...THATS what they need on all price points.
The result is a car that anyone would enjoy owning...THATS what they need on all price points.
#12
Originally Posted by gavriil
I also feel the same way as the article writer. For example. Do you remember Chrysler having a big WHAM BAM! presentation every year during the past 2-3 years? That did not happen this year. Other than the Challenger and Camaro, what did Detroit have to show really? In the mainstream area? Where are the better 25K family sedans to steal some of the Camry's thunder? Same with compact SUVs like the RAV4, etc. Nothing there.
-GT500; Resurection of a Legend.
-Lincoln MKS; Impressive Styling for a Lincoln. This car could bring Lincoln back from the grave.
-Buick Enclave; Not your Grandfathers Buick; Audi quality interior!
-Ford Edge; Great Competitor in the trendy crossover market.
#13
Who (or what) killed Detroit.
This thread is teetering on the edge of getting into the cause and effect debate of their present circumstances- an oft hashed-out topic here before, blending into similar discussions in Religion & Politics.
Who (or what) killed Detroit?
Alas, the simple answer is: good ole free market competition; as American as a 1959 Buick. This begs a thread of its own.
Some will blame unions. I can see their point. The concept of organized labor negotiating with management is antithetical to competition.
In the post war era of the 1950s and 1960s, Detroit was flush with cash as cars sold faster than they could make them. Labor contracts were a sidebar to the main story of a sellers' market and high profits. Generous benefits were handed out including expensive pension, insurance, and lay-off pay give-aways. No biggie when the black ink was in the billions every year. Now, the chickens have come home to roost.
Detroit bleeds red ink. Asian competition is no longer just price, but style, performance, and quality. The first victims of budget cutting are in the nonproduction departments: R&D, Design, etc. When the Titanic is sinking, you don't wade into the dining room looking for the caviar. It's back to basics. Grab something that floats and try to keep your head above water.
I think that's what we're seeing at the auto shows. I hope it's not a downward spiral.
Who (or what) killed Detroit?
Alas, the simple answer is: good ole free market competition; as American as a 1959 Buick. This begs a thread of its own.
Some will blame unions. I can see their point. The concept of organized labor negotiating with management is antithetical to competition.
In the post war era of the 1950s and 1960s, Detroit was flush with cash as cars sold faster than they could make them. Labor contracts were a sidebar to the main story of a sellers' market and high profits. Generous benefits were handed out including expensive pension, insurance, and lay-off pay give-aways. No biggie when the black ink was in the billions every year. Now, the chickens have come home to roost.
Detroit bleeds red ink. Asian competition is no longer just price, but style, performance, and quality. The first victims of budget cutting are in the nonproduction departments: R&D, Design, etc. When the Titanic is sinking, you don't wade into the dining room looking for the caviar. It's back to basics. Grab something that floats and try to keep your head above water.
I think that's what we're seeing at the auto shows. I hope it's not a downward spiral.
#14
Originally Posted by Python2121
Your right about the risks involved in a bold design, but I would argue that they dont need anything risky/innovative, they just need some good engineers and a respectable car. They are on the right path, the C6, for example, didn't take any risks. They made an attrative car, modern technology (they really didn't pioneer anything(leaf springs?)) that just works and drives well.
The result is a car that anyone would enjoy owning...THATS what they need on all price points.
The result is a car that anyone would enjoy owning...THATS what they need on all price points.
Lets see...
umm light weight materials... even down to wood being used
hydro formed aluminum, used in VERY FEW cars today.
new engine
rear mounted transmission
Granted the interior is parts bin GM
And the rear suspension doesn't work like a conventional leaf spring. Yes, it's the only vechicle made that has that design. It does not have a truck suspension in the rear like "Jeremy Clarkson" (who your *blindly* quoting obviously) thinks. Might want to go see how it actually works...
I can agree with body design and such, nothing too new there. But the car uses a lot of technology not used on many other vehicles.
#15
Originally Posted by SiGGy
And the rear suspension doesn't work like a conventional leaf spring. Yes, it's the only vechicle made that has that design. It does not have a truck suspension in the rear like "Jeremy Clarkson" (who your *blindly* quoting obviously) thinks. Might want to go see how it actually works...
i never suggested that the leaf springs were bad, so what is up with this statement?
#16
Eric Peters: GM competing against GM, nothing new at the General
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9296
---------------------------------------
My verdict: they're going to continually slide, because no one wants to be "the bad guy"
who makes tough decisions on products or pensions.
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9296
---------------------------------------
My verdict: they're going to continually slide, because no one wants to be "the bad guy"
who makes tough decisions on products or pensions.
#17
Originally Posted by M TYPE X
Eric Peters: GM competing against GM, nothing new at the General
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9296
---------------------------------------
My verdict: they're going to continually slide, because no one wants to be "the bad guy"
who makes tough decisions on products or pensions.
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9296
---------------------------------------
My verdict: they're going to continually slide, because no one wants to be "the bad guy"
who makes tough decisions on products or pensions.
And, like me, he notes the unions are killing the auto industry in American with their greed and inflexibility..... which, in the end, will be classified as a murder/suicide.
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