helloha

From Motortrend: Hot B4 model to appear later with a 2.5-liter turbo boxer four producing 260-270 horsepower.


from clubtsx..



http://www.clubtsx.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=4773

From the site...
---------------------------
"IMO a 4WD of this vehicle is pointless, if there is an unlimited choice ... Where you want outright/handling performance ... The Euro R is there (That's what it's designed for). If anyone notice, the 4WD isn't exactly for performance and is only available in 5AT.

Hondas are very good at making FF compared to any other drivetrain types and I really if I wanted a 4WD/AWD, I wouldn't be looking at Honda. There are other good manufacturers especially Subaru who are specialist in 4WD/AWD instead. Something of this spec, a Subaru B4 AWD Twin-Turbo would match performance/handling and most importantly luxury in the same class.

Having driven the new Subaru B4 AWD Turbo when I was comparing with the Accord Euro, they're very very similar in design/styling cues etc. With differences in drivetrain, power-output and price. B4s have outright brutal torque, AWD flawless handling with little understeer and most importantly, luxurious, refined and quiet like a proper performance Sedan with the latest Japanese designs/development in place.

"

Stokeless_TSX

why does everyone seem to bite hondas style??? lol but i like the awd turbo idea

jlukja

Sweet! Little hints of Ford in the front and Mercedes in the back with a slightly rounder shape than the wedge-leaning TSX. Me like.

dom

Welcome to early last year guys.

Nice car, but not crazy about the interior. Don't know about the US, but a WRX costs as much as a TSX here in Canada. The current Legacy is more so I 'd imagine this new one will be pushing 5 or 6K more.

G2Ray

The back actually resembles the current Camry much like how the TSX rear-end resembles the previous generation Camry.

Junkster

I started a thread about the next legacy a while back but since this one popped up...

Everyone is indicating that the US price range for the next gen Legacy will be from 22~32/4K, which is ranging from the regular boxer 4 to the single turbo GT and topping with the H6 model. I'm in the car market around March and I was intrigued with this choice since I'm in Colorado. If they can price the GT within the 26~29,500 range, I would be in for it. Also adding to the equation of buying the car would be if Subaru, a part of the GM family, is willing to continue the low interest financing program available on all Subarus (except STi). GM has indicated this week that aggresive rebates and financing will continue through the early part of this year.

It did win car of the year in Japan this past year, and from all the write ups on the car, the quality of the car has improved greatly. I will reserve some doubt since it is a Subaru Legacy and the past record for Legacys haven't been the greatest in the world (lots of engine problems).

Subaru is trying to move upmarket to near luxury market, so I'm thinking this car will try and live up to that mark. It'll be interesting to read the reviews when this car hits the testdrives of the major publications.

Junkster, who wants to know the US color range for the next Legacy.

need4spd_RENAMED

Here is a real photo of the car, it is showing in Detroit, I too like the car, and posted like junkster a while back about it.



If it were here now, I would have gone for the B4 and forgotten the TL, the dynamics would be much better, and at least I would not have the vibration problems I am having now.

My wish is not to have a shake with my fries

EDIT: the one good thing about my TL ownership is that I have gotten to drive the TSX for 8 days and 7 nights

jlukja

OK, call me weird but I don't like the one on the Detroit photo. I don't know if its the angle of the picture or what but the first photos posted (black) made the front look a little wider than the silver one.

dom

Going by the press intro for the Legacy there was no mention of a 3.0L I6 version of this car. They only made mention of the Turbo 2.5, 250HP, 250 lb-ft and a naturally aspirated 2.5.

Junkster

Journalists invited to testdrive the cars in Japan were told that the US market will recieve a revised version of the H6 engine currently in the Legacy Outbacks within 6 months of the original launch. It's supposedly rated only a few ponies above the turbo, but would benefit from the use of 6 cylinders. Those H6 models will be topping off the Legacy line in the 32~34US range.
That's what I've read through at least 3 publications anyway.

Junkster, who reads way too much about cars.

TSX Hokie

Looks like a Saturn with a hood scoop to me...

My parents have owned Subies my entire life, and all of them had awful interiors. Small, flimsy steering wheels, and crappy shifters (the shifter on my friend's old Loyale will wobble left and right 6 inches while in gear). Not to mention all the failed clutches and struts. Can't beat that AWD in ice though.

Maybe Subaru has their act together now, but the fact that they are now owned by GM makes that seem unlikely to me. GM is steadily ruining the Saab image, so I don't expect that they can do much to improve Subaru.

Kanon23

Is it just me or the design of the B4 looks a little blend?

TMQ

With all the auto makers coming out main stream sedans (GM and Ford etc.), the AWD will be more competitive and those of us who occasionally drive through mountain passes would be happy to have more products to pick from. I'd be happy to drive a AWD-TSX, if priced right (maybe Acura will add a V-6 later?).

This new Subaru looks pretty sharp all around, but I really don't like the front end that much, especially that display model. Subarus are very popular in the Northwest, but so far they are just too bland, and interiors aren't great. Also, I can't stand the STi's looks.

Smokey the Bear

I agree jlukja. It's like the difference between an airbrushed model in a magazine and actually seeing the model in person. In this case, she's uglier in person.

I noticed the differing front bumper might be the culprit.

BTW, I've been waiting for this car since last year before the TSX came out. I think I might be done waiting after seeing that Detroit pic. 4wd is cool and all, but I don't see much snow here in Southern Cali. Here I come Acura dealer!

Mokos23

i like it, but lose the hood scoop, it just doesn't look right on a car that is trying to get into the luxury segment. now are the resale values and reliability on subarus good? never owned one, but since they're built in japan, i'm thinking the reliability should be good.

tsx-mdxman

The hood scoop is a major detractor but I like pretty much everything else. Why did they tack that stupid thing on?

Dan Martin

It doesn't look sporty to me for some reason. I'm sure it's fast but it just doesn't look the part.

jwaters943

Ummm, maybe because it's actually a functional air intake.

jwaters943

Have you seen pictures or read any reviews of the new Legacy? The interior is vastly superior to anything they have produced before. As for GM's influence, they do partially own Subaru, but do NOT have controlling interest in Subaru (Fuji Heavy Industries). So don't expect rebadged TrailBlazers or Malibus to show up on Subaru lots any time soon.

The new Legacy is a seriously awesome car. Every review I have read (whether it be from Japan, Australia or the U.K.) has been positive. More horsepower, structural rigidity and features as well as better handling, braking and refinement all in a more attractive package that weighs less (thanks to the abundant use of aluminum) than the previous generation. What's not to like?

tsx-mdxman

Umm, why not put it in the nose where most performance cars have them then, genius?

jwaters943

It's called forced induction. Subaru put the scoop where it does the most good. Supercharged and turbocharged cars often have hood scoops. I'm so sorry it's not aesthetically pleasing to you.

On a side note, thanks for acknowledging my superior intellect. I feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

gilboman

take a look at some T/C'd cars and look where the intercooler is first. then you will understand why the hoodscoop is there.

tsx-mdxman

Dude, I don't need a lesson on scoops. They don't need to go on top of the hood is my point. Looks tacky on a pseudo-luxury car intended for a mature audience. Volvo and Audi, for example, don't put them there and many of their cars are turbocharged. Putting the scoop on the hood is more of a visual cue then a performance enhancer.

bsix

The legacy uses a boxer engine, and as such for all pratical purposes the intercooler for the turbo has to sit up there. It is very difficult to put on a front mounted intercooler for any production version of a boxer engine because the lack of space for all the plumbing (air intakes have to come from above or from both sides) and the need for bumper compression at low speeds.

The legacy, TL 6MT and the G35 are the next cars I am looking at. Each has it's plus and minuses. The minuses on the TL are the crappy rear brakes, 60/40 weight distribution and the front wheel drive, the legacy is the (slight) turbo lag and lower mileage due to a 5sp and higher final drive ratio, and the G35's low speed crash performance (nearly $4000 from a series of 5mph bumper bashes). In the overall scheme of things, I think each of these are great cars, something very comparable to BMW that was the only game in town a few years back (230 HP + manual in a sport sedan).

CharlieDigital

I think I know the source of this problem: wheelbase length (as a proportion to the overall length of the vehicle).

The overhangs in the front and back are horrendously long. In addition, it doesn't have that look of "bulk" (or muscularity as some would describe it) a la BMW or the G35. Even the TSX has a certain, "bulky" or "muscular" look to it, which adds to it's aggressive look.

Would look tons better with the overall length down a few inches and the wheelbase up a few inches.

MikeMa

Well, if memory serves, Subaru puts the scoop on basically all models in the line--even ones without the turbo.

My dad rented an Outback, which didn't have a Turbo, but there was still a scoop on the hood with a black plastic panel.

I haven't paid much attention to the recent Subarus, though.

I do, however, still think that the interiors in their cars need work. They look really blah...... The new Legacy is getting there, but it's still a bit plastic looking, and they still have the problem of "Vast Expanses of Black."

jwaters943

I'll admit to being too lazy to research whether what you say is true or not regarding hood scoops on previous models. All I know is on the new Legacy ONLY the Turbo models get the hood scoop. As far as the interior, I fail to see how the new Legacy falls short of the competition. It sure looks BMW quality to my eyes.

When I look at the new Legacy interior I see matte plastics, LED lighting, very tight and evenly spaced panel gaps, good switch placement, nice 3 spoke Momo steering wheel and nice looking seats with fairly agressive side bolsters. The only thing that even looks remotely cheap is the silver colored center console trim. Sounds a lot like the TSX if you ask me.

tsx-mdxman

Good argument, bsix but I'll still bet the garish scoop is where it's at because someone at Subaru thinks it looks cool, not because the engineers couldn't draw air from the front end of the car. That one item mars an otherwise conservative but pleasant design for me.

Junkster

I have to agree with you on this one, dude. I think that it wouldn't be too hard to lose the scoop if the engineers actually tried to. But with the success of the WRX, I think the scoop is becoming something of a trademark for Subies. I helped a friend pick out a Legacy this week (the white 35th addition) and I was pleasently surprised with the overall quality of the car. For 21k, it was a pretty good car. If all the reports on this car is true, than it's probably a pretty good car on key with the TSX in competition. I would still have to drive it to see what it's like compared to the TSX.

Junkster, who likes the redesign as well.

Type-S RPh

With the introduction of the WRX in 2001 Subaru stated that the will no longer put hood scoops on just for show. They will only be there to serve a purpose hense, only Subarus with turbos have hood scoops (WRX, STi, Forester,Baja, and now the LegacyGT)

jcg878

Another pharmacist on here?? getting crowded...

Type-S RPh

jcg879 are you a pharmacist also? Who else out there?

jcg878

Took a couple pics of the next gen Legacy today... looks good IMO, at least on the outside. Too bad we couldn't get in it.

Junkster

JCG, did you get some pics of the wagon, that's the one I really wanna see.

Junkster, who wonders what auto show these photos are from.

jcg878

There was no wagon there, and it's from the Philly Auto Show yesterday. The rest of the pics I took are here

JCG, who wonders if there'd be more or less accidents if all cars were AWD

helloha

TSX will fall to Subi class?
Looks the same, feels the same..side blinker.. front is similar.
Back is curent Camry look, TSX is previous Camry Look.. LOL

jcg878

Guess we'll have to wait and judge the inside

(and, how does the thing DRIVE??)

LED Master

Here you go, Subie came out with an advance web site for the 2005 Legacy / Outback.

when it comes up, the outback is shown, just used the pull down menu on the upper left where it says "menu" to select the Legacy!

Interior shots, 360's, downloads the whole thing is here.

http://www.need-desire.com/

vitocorleone

If it had ended up looking like the renderings, I'd be all over it instead of a TSX. As it is: bleh.

Maybe those are photos - whatever, I had a different image of it in my head. What I see in the detroit photos means I won't even bother looking.