Chevrolet: Corvette News

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Old 08-01-2019, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
Then don't buy one? They've already sold out the first model year run so it's clearly not hurting sales.
One can still like the car in general but still bring up valid criticisms of it. It's not a "with us or against us" thing. While I agree with @Tech I do genuinely love the direction they are taking with the C8 and knowing a bit more about how expensive it is to develop a sports car and looking at price points of other MR cars vs the C8, there are bound to be compromises BUT it doesn't take away all the awesomeness that is the C8. I just get irked when fanboys start cherry picking paper specs to show how much "better" the C8 is against cars like the 911 Turbo/R8/etc.

One other point, with how popular in demand this car is and with it almost being sold out, would we see dealers marking up the car like so many other new model sports cars that are hugely hyped up?
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Old 08-01-2019, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
Then don't buy one? They've already sold out the first model year run so it's clearly not hurting sales.
Trust me, people with serious money, won't. I didn't.

I just like they way their ads are a real marketing ploy as if they came out with all this technology. Yeah well, maybe for the Corvette.
Old 08-01-2019, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Tech
Trust me, people with serious money, won't. I didn't.

I just like they way their ads are a real marketing ploy as if they came out with all this technology. Yeah well, maybe for the Corvette.
I honestly don't buy that for a minute. I bet Leno already has one on order.

Just because it doesn't appeal to you, it certainly doesn't mean that it won't appeal to many many many more people regardless of income. It's a car that's designed to compete with high end super cars in both looks and performance for half the price. This thing WILL sell like hot cakes (relatively) whether you like it or not.

I don't have serious money or else I'd order one too.
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Old 08-01-2019, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by nist7
One can still like the car in general but still bring up valid criticisms of it. It's not a "with us or against us" thing. While I agree with @Tech I do genuinely love the direction they are taking with the C8 and knowing a bit more about how expensive it is to develop a sports car and looking at price points of other MR cars vs the C8, there are bound to be compromises BUT it doesn't take away all the awesomeness that is the C8. I just get irked when fanboys start cherry picking paper specs to show how much "better" the C8 is against cars like the 911 Turbo/R8/etc.

One other point, with how popular in demand this car is and with it almost being sold out, would we see dealers marking up the car like so many other new model sports cars that are hugely hyped up?
Every new car launch has the same fanboys cherry picking spec sheets no matter if it's a Chevy or a Lambo. In fact, people are in here discussing spec sheets about materials, finishes, and quality without ever setting foot into one of these. We don't even really know how fast this thing actually is, it may embarrass a lot of cars for half the price. Not like that hasn't been done before.

Whether or not the car is "better" is irrelevant just like it's entirely irrelevant discussing Nurburgring times (which, I might add, the crappy C7 Chevy Z06 has a faster time than all of the Porsche 911s other than the GT3/GT2RS that are triple or more the price), people don't commute to work on a racetrack. The point is that it's fast, it's pretty, and it's relatively inexpensive. Those are the things that will make it a home run.

Also, we'll for sure see dealer markups. That's a certainty unless Chevy has some process in place.
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Old 08-02-2019, 01:07 AM
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The corvette has always been fast and cheap. GM has also been selling the Corvette at 20000 to 30000 units a year. While it's fast and cheap, there are still ongoing class action law suits related to the c7 regarding false advertisement.

The C8 continues in that same direction of offering supercar like performance at sports car pricing. It's very likely it will sell at a similar rate as before. And GM needs the car to sell at that rate as it's just another mass production car. They need that volume to make it worthwhile.

I don't think anyone would deny that the C8 would sell like hot cakes like the corvette has always been. On the other hand, those looking for a true super car probably want something more exclusive with more hand built components.
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Old 08-02-2019, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
It's a car that's designed to compete with high end super cars in both looks and performance for half the price. This thing WILL sell like hot cakes (relatively) whether you like it or not.
Of course it will sell and at less than half the price...it is a PRODUCTION car. You are missing the point. Anyway, I made a few of them above.

You should read a book by John Z. DeLorean called "On A Clear Day You Can See General Motors". John was an engineer and a GM upper level exec and made some serious changes to GM. He wrote about their politics which hasn't seemed to have changed or as the they put it "make people believe they are buying a quality product". It is a fantastic read on the company.
Originally Posted by SamDoe1
I don't have serious money or else I'd order one too.

Neither do I, I am an electronics tech, but I have a passion for cars and motorcycles. A passion, something missing in today's generation.

Old 08-02-2019, 08:53 AM
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https://jalopnik.com/here-are-the-st...020-1836882478

When we heard that the mid-engine 2020 Chevrolet Corvette would start at under $60,000, we were impressed. Especially since we were a bit concernedthat the vehicle would cost over six figures. Now Chevy’s released its order guide showing the equipment that the sub-$60,000 car comes with. Let’s take a look

No, if you were worried (or hopeful, depending upon your perspective) that the base Corvette would come with hubcap-adorned steel wheels, cloth seats, and drum brakes, fear not: Even though the standard 1LT-trim Vette doesn’t get heated seats, the base GT1 seats are eight-way power leather buckets (shown below). Plus, there’s dual-zone climate control; an eight-inch touchscreen display with Apple CarPlay, Android Auto, and Near Field Communication; and a Bose 10-speaker audio system.

On top of those, there’s a high-definition backup camera with park assist (handy, since there’s an engine right behind you), a 12-inch gauge cluster display, keyless ignition and entry, Near Field Communication, remote start, valet mode, power windows with automatic up/down, illuminated vanity mirrors, heated manual-folding but power-adjustable side mirrors, and a power leather-wrapped tilting and telescoping steering wheel.

The base 2020 Corvette also comes with a stainless steel exhaust system, 19-inch silver aluminum wheels with 245/35ZR19 all-season tires up front, and 20-inch wheels with 305/30/ZR20s out back. The brakes are four-wheel discs with 12.6-inchers up front and 13.3-inchers out back, and there’s a standard mechanical limited-slip diff in the rear to manage how the 6.2-liter small-block Chevy V8—which is mated to an eight-speed dual-clutch transmission—gets its power gets to the road.

In case you’re curious, Chevy also offers the 2LT and 3LT trims. We don’t know pricing for those, but suffice it to say that it will be above 60 large in both cases. The 2LT trim adds a head-up display; power-folding mirrors; power bolstering and lumbar adjustment for the heated and vented seats; wireless charging; a heated steering wheel; Navigation; a Bose 14-speaker audio system; Performance Data Recorder; rear camera mirror; memory package; curb view camera; blind-spot monitoring; and rear cross-traffic alert.

Lastly, there’s the 3LT, which—in addition to offering more interior color options than either the 1LT and 2LT—gets GT2 seats with Napa Leather and “Carbon-Fiber trim” paired with a custom “leather-wrapped interior” with suede on the upper sections and leather on the lower doors.

You can check out the full order guide here, and take a look at the optional equipment as well. Among those options is the Z51 Performance Package, with its 13.6 inch front rotors, 13.8-inch rear rotors, performance exhaust with various modes, electronic limited-slip differential, heavy-duty cooling system, and more. Because as nice as interior gadgets are, let’s be honest, all we care about are the performance options.
Old 08-02-2019, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Tech
Neither do I, I am an electronics tech, but I have a passion for cars and motorcycles. A passion, something missing in today's generation.
Huhuhu millennials, amirite?
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Old 08-03-2019, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by nist7
...

Well made points. Except I would probably still question the interior quality. Yes the C7 is certainly VASTLY superior to the prior generations, but I think the difference comes in how well that quality wears over time. The initial quality and feel will obviously be very nice as all the reviews are raving, but I have heard and read that many C7s, only a few short years old, are really showing age/wear and honestly...still some questions on material and build quality appear to still remain.

C8 will hopefully have some incremental improvements over that along with economies of scale, though again I fear with such a drastic platform change, how much attention are they putting to that brand new interior. I do also fear how well that long center console arm/wall of switches will wear...especially over time.
I only vaguely know one C7 owner, so far no problems but he also is a consummate car owner where the car is well cared for and he doesn't push the car either.

Amused the amount of attention that the center row of switches are receiving.

Originally Posted by Tech
Trust me, people with serious money, won't. I didn't.

I just like they way their ads are a real marketing ploy as if they came out with all this technology. Yeah well, maybe for the Corvette.
1st statement, your opinion not a fact.
2nd statement, virtually all auto manufacturers do that.


Originally Posted by SamDoe1
I honestly don't buy that for a minute. I bet Leno already has one on order.

Just because it doesn't appeal to you, it certainly doesn't mean that it won't appeal to many many many more people regardless of income. It's a car that's designed to compete with high end super cars in both looks and performance for half the price. This thing WILL sell like hot cakes (relatively) whether you like it or not.

I don't have serious money or else I'd order one too.



Originally Posted by iforyou
The corvette has always been fast and cheap. GM has also been selling the Corvette at 20000 to 30000 units a year. While it's fast and cheap, there are still ongoing class action law suits related to the c7 regarding false advertisement.

The C8 continues in that same direction of offering supercar like performance at sports car pricing. It's very likely it will sell at a similar rate as before. And GM needs the car to sell at that rate as it's just another mass production car. They need that volume to make it worthwhile.

I don't think anyone would deny that the C8 would sell like hot cakes like the corvette has always been. On the other hand, those looking for a true super car probably want something more exclusive with more hand built components.
1st statement, agree some people will want a Ferrari, McLaren or Lamborghini regardless of how good a C8 is.2nd

2nd statement, there's probably not too much difference between some of the exotic production and Bowling Green. Most of the major exotic manufacturers use a large amount of robotic and CNC manufacturing and there was quite a bit of single person hand assembly in Vette ZR1 motor similar to AMG.


Vette engineering and production is different from the rest of the GM, alot of the C7 and C8 success is due to Tadge.





Originally Posted by Tech
Of course it will sell and at less than half the price...it is a PRODUCTION car. You are missing the point. Anyway, I made a few of them above.

You should read a book by John Z. DeLorean called "On A Clear Day You Can See General Motors". John was an engineer and a GM upper level exec and made some serious changes to GM. He wrote about their politics which hasn't seemed to have changed or as the they put it "make people believe they are buying a quality product". It is a fantastic read on the company.

Neither do I, I am an electronics tech, but I have a passion for cars and motorcycles. A passion, something missing in today's generation.
Not sure what you mean the all caps production but even the McLaren F1 was a production car. Vast majority of exotics are made at a production facility, there are some exceptions (Bugatti Veyron, Pagani,...)

A better auto book is "Comeback: The Fall & Rise of the American Automobile Industry", a little dated but still a great read on the internal working at the big three and Japanese auto makers and how they made inroads into the US and producing cars there as well
Written by the Wall Street Journal Pulitzer Prize authors Paul Ingrassia and Joseph B. White.

Amazon Amazon

Last edited by Legend2TL; 08-03-2019 at 09:13 AM.
Old 08-03-2019, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Costco
Huhuhu millennials, amirite?
Yep, gotta offset that ever increasing Vette average buyers age somehow....
Old 08-03-2019, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Legend2TL
Not sure what you mean the all caps production but even the McLaren F1 was a production car. Vast majority of exotics are made at a production facility, there are some exceptions (Bugatti Veyron, Pagani,...)
Well I don't think you can buy 40,000 McLaren F1, or even 10,000 in a year, so its a totally different level of "production". A McLaren was being raffled off at the Pacific Fair Mall on the Gold Coast in Oz. I have an eagle eye and some panels did not line up that well. Exotic, but no quality control.

Originally Posted by Legend2TL
A better auto book is "Comeback: The Fall & Rise of the American Automobile Industry", a little dated but still a great read on the internal working at the big three and Japanese auto makers and how they made inroads into the US and producing cars there as well. Written by the Wall Street Journal Pulitzer Prize authors Paul Ingrassia and Joseph B. White.
I will look it up and order it.

You really have to wonder why the North American market had to put import quotas on Japanese cars in the early 80s. (I would know as I bought a Toyota back then and got rid of that POS Mustang I had). Piss poor quality and although things have gotten better, I would not buy a car or truck from the big-three.

And some ten years ago, we were bailing out GM. Piss poor management! Jeez, Nissan, Honda, Ford and Toyota didn't need one. We should have kept William Deming instead of kicking him out of the US and sending him to Japan. Upper level arrogance.
Old 08-03-2019, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Legend2TL
I only vaguely know one C7 owner, so far no problems but he also is a consummate car owner where the car is well cared for and he doesn't push the car either.

Amused the amount of attention that the center row of switches are receiving.



1st statement, your opinion not a fact.
2nd statement, virtually all auto manufacturers do that.









1st statement, agree some people will want a Ferrari, McLaren or Lamborghini regardless of how good a C8 is.2nd

2nd statement, there's probably not too much difference between some of the exotic production and Bowling Green. Most of the major exotic manufacturers use a large amount of robotic and CNC manufacturing and there was quite a bit of single person hand assembly in Vette ZR1 motor similar to AMG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq1eOv6XEdY

Vette engineering and production is different from the rest of the GM, alot of the C7 and C8 success is due to Tadge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfi1TbT5BGU






Not sure what you mean the all caps production but even the McLaren F1 was a production car. Vast majority of exotics are made at a production facility, there are some exceptions (Bugatti Veyron, Pagani,...)

A better auto book is "Comeback: The Fall & Rise of the American Automobile Industry", a little dated but still a great read on the internal working at the big three and Japanese auto makers and how they made inroads into the US and producing cars there as well
Written by the Wall Street Journal Pulitzer Prize authors Paul Ingrassia and Joseph B. White.

https://www.amazon.com/Comeback-Fall.../dp/0684804379

I think even the engine of the Z06 is hand built, but even for the C7, it's already over $80k.

I was thinking something like a r8 or NSX. For the R8, the actual production facility is quite small. It's considered a hand built vehicle relative to other Audi models in terms of robotic machinery involvement. For example, while most Audi models at other plants, the build process is 95% robotic. For the R8, it's 25%. They just have 7 robots on the floor for the R8. It also takes about one week to build a R8. For comparison, it takes 3 days or so for an A8, and just 24 hours for a A6. In between the working stations of an R8 build, the time from group to group is around 41 minutes, whereas on an A6, the working speed is 81 seconds. The production capacity for the r8 is only 15 units a day.

The NSX is similar except that the production capacity is even less at about 8 to 10 units a day max. They only have about 100 staff members at the PMC.

For the corvette, things are much different. Its plant is way bigger. GM builds about 150 corvettes a day. It takes about w to 2.5 days to build a Corvette, note that it's even shorter than the time it takes to build an A8, let alone a R8. Whereas at the PMC, there are about 100 employees working there, there are about 1000 people for building the Corvette. The time from station to station is about 3 minutes for the corvette. Rememebr, we were talking about 81 seconds for an A6, and 41 minutes for a R8. Industry standard is 30 seconds.

So I think it's fair to say that the while the production of the corvette is more sophisticated than an average car, it's nowhere near the same as say a NSX or R8. I watched a video of how the CTR is built. I feel like the build process of the Corvette is closer to that rather than an actual exotic.

There's nothing wrong with that. After all, GM is trying to sell over 2000 Corvettes a month, whereas R8 is may be 5 to 10% of that worldwide.
Old 08-05-2019, 08:22 AM
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Old 08-05-2019, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by iforyou
I think even the engine of the Z06 is hand built, but even for the C7, it's already over $80k.

I was thinking something like a r8 or NSX. For the R8, the actual production facility is quite small. It's considered a hand built vehicle relative to other Audi models in terms of robotic machinery involvement. For example, while most Audi models at other plants, the build process is 95% robotic. For the R8, it's 25%. They just have 7 robots on the floor for the R8. It also takes about one week to build a R8. For comparison, it takes 3 days or so for an A8, and just 24 hours for a A6. In between the working stations of an R8 build, the time from group to group is around 41 minutes, whereas on an A6, the working speed is 81 seconds. The production capacity for the r8 is only 15 units a day.

The NSX is similar except that the production capacity is even less at about 8 to 10 units a day max. They only have about 100 staff members at the PMC.

For the corvette, things are much different. Its plant is way bigger. GM builds about 150 corvettes a day. It takes about w to 2.5 days to build a Corvette, note that it's even shorter than the time it takes to build an A8, let alone a R8. Whereas at the PMC, there are about 100 employees working there, there are about 1000 people for building the Corvette. The time from station to station is about 3 minutes for the corvette. Rememebr, we were talking about 81 seconds for an A6, and 41 minutes for a R8. Industry standard is 30 seconds.

So I think it's fair to say that the while the production of the corvette is more sophisticated than an average car, it's nowhere near the same as say a NSX or R8. I watched a video of how the CTR is built. I feel like the build process of the Corvette is closer to that rather than an actual exotic.

There's nothing wrong with that. After all, GM is trying to sell over 2000 Corvettes a month, whereas R8 is may be 5 to 10% of that worldwide.
"Hand built" for a car is a great way to say "low quality". Machines are much better, faster, and repeatable than humans are.

Also, the only reason the R8 has the assembly line it does is because of the production volumes. If they were going to sell Corvette volumes, they'd have more robots in there before the end of the week. Similar to why the NSX is built like it is.

Lastly, just because it's built by people rather than robots does not make one more or less of a "production car" than the other. "rofl:
Old 08-05-2019, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
Machines are much better, faster, and repeatable than humans are.
True, but you need one more thing...Quality Control and the mentality and culture in upper level management to ensure that.
Old 08-05-2019, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Tech
True, but you need one more thing...Quality Control and the mentality and culture in upper level management to ensure that.
Generally the way they ensure that is to use machines...
Old 08-06-2019, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
"Hand built" for a car is a great way to say "low quality". Machines are much better, faster, and repeatable than humans are.

Also, the only reason the R8 has the assembly line it does is because of the production volumes. If they were going to sell Corvette volumes, they'd have more robots in there before the end of the week. Similar to why the NSX is built like it is.

Lastly, just because it's built by people rather than robots does not make one more or less of a "production car" than the other. "rofl:
It seems like you are thinking about those home made kit cars when we say hand built cars. Of course, those would be low quality as a typical home doesn't have hundreds of patented technologies and tools for ensuring the utmost accuracy and quality.

The tolerances gained with the R8 are astonishing. As a hand-built car, it’s down to between 0.2-0.3mm over its entire length, with shut lines reduced to fractional numbers by skilled tradespeople using laser measuring equipment.

For me I feel it's a little disrespectful to these highly trained and experienced tradespeople to say what they build are low quality. These are generally the top employees of the company. You know there's a guy who would paint a spoiler at home to save some money like me. And there's also the professional shop that would charge a whole lot to paint the same spoiler, but with much more skilled and experienced workers using way more sophisticated techniques and tools than my little spray can.. Both would be considered hand made but obviously one is of low quality.

I'm not sure what the discussion about "production" is about. I think who whoever mentioned it meant mass production instead of just production?
Old 08-06-2019, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by iforyou
I'm not sure what the discussion about "production" is about. I think who whoever mentioned it meant mass production instead of just production?
One would need to go to the EAA in Oshkosh to see how "home built" correctly known as "Experimental" aircraft are built. Trust me, these so called "home built" aircraft would put any aircraft manufacturer to shame. Its a matter of pride in workmanship / craftsmanship.

It'll be interesting how this mid-engine car does in a collision. Fiberglass shattering is not a pretty sight. But I am sure that have been looked at by the engineers.
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Tech
One would need to go to the EAA in Oshkosh to see how "home built" correctly known as "Experimental" aircraft are built. Trust me, these so called "home built" aircraft would put any aircraft manufacturer to shame. Its a matter of pride in workmanship / craftsmanship.

It'll be interesting how this mid-engine car does in a collision. Fiberglass shattering is not a pretty sight. But I am sure that have been looked at by the engineers.
Not to drift too far on the subject, but if I were building something like an RV6, I'd be much more inclined to be 10000% sure it was built right, than if I were building a Cobra kit car. The RV6 has to work in 3 dimensions & a pretty small assembly error can be fatal.
Not saying that it's not the same with the car, but an airplane is quite ready to kill you if something isn't right.
Old 08-06-2019, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by iforyou
It seems like you are thinking about those home made kit cars when we say hand built cars. Of course, those would be low quality as a typical home doesn't have hundreds of patented technologies and tools for ensuring the utmost accuracy and quality.

The tolerances gained with the R8 are astonishing. As a hand-built car, it’s down to between 0.2-0.3mm over its entire length, with shut lines reduced to fractional numbers by skilled tradespeople using laser measuring equipment.

For me I feel it's a little disrespectful to these highly trained and experienced tradespeople to say what they build are low quality. These are generally the top employees of the company. You know there's a guy who would paint a spoiler at home to save some money like me. And there's also the professional shop that would charge a whole lot to paint the same spoiler, but with much more skilled and experienced workers using way more sophisticated techniques and tools than my little spray can.. Both would be considered hand made but obviously one is of low quality.

I'm not sure what the discussion about "production" is about. I think who whoever mentioned it meant mass production instead of just production?
The R8 is one thing but what about Bentley, RR, and Aston? All are "hand made" and notorious for a variety of issues.
Old 08-06-2019, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 00TL-P3.2
Not saying that it's not the same with the car, but an airplane is quite ready to kill you if something isn't right.
Well you just do not built it and fly it. There are stages where the construction is inspected by those in aviation like the FAA, etc.
Yes, you better know what you are doing and have the skills. You should know AC 43.13 for starters.
Old 08-06-2019, 04:39 PM
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No doubt.
Much more to a 'homebuilt' A/C than the average Caterham/Cobra.
Old 08-06-2019, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
The R8 is one thing but what about Bentley, RR, and Aston? All are "hand made" and notorious for a variety of issues.
Haha I think there are certain brands that are just not very reliable regardless of whether they are hand made or not. Hand built cars generally just involve more human input in the assembly process. If the components themselves are faulty to begin with, then whether the car is built by mostly robots or humans, it will fail sooner rather than later. It's more of a design issue rather than a building issue if you will.

Anyways, the point of this hand built discussion is that a lot of these low volume production exotics are more expensive because they don't have the volume to take advantage of economies of scale, that they are much more time consuming to make, that they contain more bespoke components, and that there is likely to be more emphasis on craftsmanship. Specifically on that last point, some of these exotics are almost like an art so to speak.

Think bout like 25-30 years ago. There was the Honda NSX that was like 7 million yen or more. Then there's also the Toyota MR-2 GTS for less than 3 million yen. Both have a MR layout, can fit 2 people, and are just as fast as each other. Does that mean one should get a MR2 instead of the NSX?
Old 08-07-2019, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
The R8 is one thing but what about Bentley, RR, and Aston? All are "hand made" and notorious for a variety of issues.
Because British.

How do you know when a British car runs out of oil?






It stops leaking.
Old 08-15-2019, 06:39 AM
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For its starting price of $59,995 including shipping, the 2020 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray comes with an automatic transmission, more horsepower than the outgoing version and a dry-sump oil system that previously cost extra. But buyers will have to spend at least $7,300 more to get the automatic front-suspension lift system that General Motors touted at the car's unveiling.

The midengine Corvette will come in three trim levels, with the top-end 3LT starting at $71,945, GM said Thursday.

Adding the Z51 performance package, which boosts acceleration with exhaust and suspension upgrades, to any of the three trims costs $5,000, the same as on the front-engine 2019 Corvette. The performance exhaust upgrade, which adds 5 hp and 5 pound-feet of torque, is $1,195 by itself.

The starting price of the 2020 Corvette, which is offered only with an eight-speed dual-clutch automatic transmission, is $1,005 more than the 2019 Corvette with an automatic transmission. The 2LT trim starts at $67,295, $3,850 more than on the 2019, but includes wireless phone charging, a heated steering wheel and a number of driver-assist technologies not previously available.

"Most people thought when we moved the Corvette to midengine it would no longer be attainable, but we knew we couldn't mess with a winning formula, and the 2020 Stingray proves it," Brian Sweeney, Chevrolet's U.S. vice president, said in a statement.




The 3LT trim adds luxury features such as Napa and Mulan leather seating surfaces and a carbon fiber trim, a custom leather-wrapped interior, suede-wrapped upper interior trim and leather-wrapped door panels.

The front lift system, designed to protect the car's nose on driveways and speed bumps, is not available on the 1LT and costs $1,495 on the two higher trims. Adding it to a Corvette 3LT Z51 would bring the price to $78,440.

"We've packed a lot of performance into the Corvette Stingray at this price when you consider an eight-speed dual clutch transmission, Small Block V-8 and engine-mounted dry sump oil system are all standard," Tadge Juechter, the Corvette's executive chief engineer, said in the statement.

The 2020 Corvette's 6.2-liter V-8 engine produces 490 hp, compared with 455 hp on the 2019, and 465 pound-feet of torque, up from 460 on the 2019.

GM will start building the 2020 Corvette Stingray this year in Bowling Green, Ky. The company had previously said only that the car would start at "less than $60,000."
https://www.autonews.com/sales/chevy...s-priced-59995
Old 08-15-2019, 08:49 AM
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$77k for a Z51 3LT still doesn't sound like a bad deal.
Old 08-15-2019, 09:04 AM
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Can't wait until they announce higher performance versions: Grand Sport and then the Z06 and the next iteration of a ZR1.

But this is truly an incredible performance for the buck. And just to maximize performance per dollar, I'd get a 1LT with the Z51 package. Or a 1LT Z06....
Old 08-15-2019, 09:34 AM
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~$72k for a 2LT with the Z51 would be my sweet spot though I'd probably spring for the front end lift system too...either way, that's definitely reasonable for this car.

obamanotbad.jpg

If you wait for the 2022 model year, you'll be able to get this thing for less than MSRP all day lol.

Edit: On second thought, I'd just go with the 1LT+Z51. $65k is pretty perfect for a car like this. Toss in an aftermarket exhaust for some more noise and call it a day.

Last edited by SamDoe1; 08-15-2019 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
Edit: On second thought, I'd just go with the 1LT+Z51. $65k is pretty perfect for a car like this. Toss in an aftermarket exhaust for some more noise and call it a day.
Yup, that's my line of thinking. As awesome as the interior looks and the initial quality is certainly nice (as all new cars should be)....I have little faith it will be on par with other manufacturers as it ages over time...and so imo the goal is NOT to have the best interior....but to have that incredible dollar per performance value.

Or.....get a used example in 4-5 years for like half the MSRP....
Old 08-16-2019, 12:03 AM
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I'd also get the adaptive dampers for $2k.
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Old 08-22-2019, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Legend2TL
A better auto book is "Comeback: The Fall & Rise of the American Automobile Industry", a little dated but still a great read on the internal working at the big three and Japanese auto makers and how they made inroads into the US and producing cars there as well
Written by the Wall Street Journal Pulitzer Prize authors Paul Ingrassia and Joseph B. White.

https://www.amazon.com/Comeback-Fall.../dp/0684804379
Thanks for that. I got a used hardcover book off Amazon and it arrived a few days ago. I'm in the second chapter; excellent book so far.

Well nothing new there. The same old "old guard" running the Big Three with the same arrogant mentality. It was like that in DeLorean's days, then in this book and look at the "buy-outs" that some of them needed some 10 years ago.

As one of my flying students put it and he is a very hands-on mechanical engineer who tried to talk me out of my first and only American car back in 1981, "I would have no problem buying an American car, but I would not blow $10K on junk". Funny thing is, "junk" was mentioned in the above book. Unfortunately, I did not listen to my student and bought a new American car. What an utter piece of crap that car was. Sold it 17 months later and bought Japanese.

The only American car I would consider is a Corvette or a Mustang, and preferably the older ones, but the garage is full.
Old 08-25-2019, 06:19 AM
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C8 Corvette Z51 - Every Square Inch in 4K HDR!


pretty impressive visual quality of the interior and exterior components

Last edited by Legend2TL; 08-25-2019 at 06:22 AM.
Old 08-25-2019, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Legend2TL
pretty impressive visual quality of the interior and exterior components
Have a look at 2:22 full screen. The black rocker trim panel at the rear next to the lady's hip.
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Old 08-26-2019, 10:36 AM
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https://www.motor1.com/news/366988/c...arkup-problem/

To avoid dealer markups on the highly anticipated 2020 C8 Corvette, fans are working together to make sure they get a fair deal. With some reports stating markups of over $30,000, Corvette fans are joining together to make sure they don’t get taken advantage of.

When Chevy revealed the C8 Corvette’s relatively affordable base price of only $59,995, it meant many traditional Corvette owners could afford the new mid-engined car. Unfortunately, some dealerships are taking advantage of the reasonably priced C8 Corvette and are adding markups that move it from affordable to unobtainable. Luckily there’s a clever grassroots solution.

To combat dealers who are trying to profit on the C8’s popularity, a thread on Corvette Forums is keeping a growing list of dealers who will sell the C8 at market-suggested retail price and those who are asking for large depositors or markups. This comprehensive guide is meant to steer customers towards honest dealers while avoiding someone looking to make a quick buck.

According to the post on Corvette Forums, the top eight dealerships by sales volume for the previous-generation C7 Corvette are all selling the new C8 at MSRP. Once you get down to the lower volume dealerships, markups are more frequent.

The thread on Corvette Forum sees both Corvette fans and dealerships chiming in on exactly where you can find a C8 at MSRP. This thread is a great way to reward dealers that are not tempted to profit off the C8’s hype by allowing them to put their pricing commitment in writing

Putting all of the important information in the hands of potential buyers limits the power of dealers to take advantage of the situation. Dealership markups are nothing new but that doesn’t mean customers shouldn’t band together to find a fair deal. The organized Corvette community is a perfect example of how enthusiasts should combat dealership markups in the future by working together.
Old 08-26-2019, 10:38 AM
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Can almost guarantee that the dealer where I used to work has a 'Market Adjustment' on the windshield when they get their first few.

C6 ZR1s had something like a $15k markup.
5G Camaros were 5-10k depending on engine/trim.
Old 08-26-2019, 01:01 PM
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https://www.motortrend.com/news/c8-c...win-turbo-v-8/

You've heard the rumors and you've seen the leaked CAD drawings. The car world has been speculating about overhead cams and turbochargers and flat-plane cranks in the backs of C8 Corvettes for months now, but we've confirmed with a deep source on the Corvette team that the upcoming C8.R race car and, more crucially, the C8 Corvette Z06 will be powered by a flat-plane-crank twin-turbo dual-overhead-cam V-8



"Everyone thinks it will be a small block, but it won't be," said our source. "Listen to the race car."


We did, and if you've ever seen the current C7.R car live, you know the roar of the pushrod LS7.R engine is unmistakable. Compare the above video, which shows a camouflaged C8.R testing at Sebring, to the one below. The C8.R exhibits an entirely different exhaust note, one consistent with a flat-plane-crank engine design. Key characteristics to listen for: a higher-pitched exhaust note, a consistent exhaust note without the pushrod's staccato bass line, higher RPM than a pushrod motor typically reaches characterized by longer times between upshifts, and lightning quick downshifts wherein the engine spins up to higher RPM much faster than a pushrod engine.

That last part helps explain why Chevrolet would do this. After all, Corvette Racing has won the 24 Hours of Le Mans eight times in 21 attempts with pushrod engines. As with the move to a mid-engine layout, the switch to a flat-plane crank is all about performance



Consider the advantages. Flat-plane-crank engines have smaller, lighter crankshafts which can spin up faster than cross-plane-crank engines and lose less power to rotational inertia. The change in firing order also allows for better exhaust scavenging than a cross-plane crank. Exhaust scavenging, the method of pulling the last exhaust gases out of a cylinder faster using reflected pressure waves, improves performance and combustion efficiency—both crucial in racing



Of course, flat-plane cranks have a big disadvantage in V-8 engines: balance. The whole reason Cadillac engineered the cross-plane crankshaft for V-8 engines back in the 1920s was to smooth out the engine. While cross-plane-crank V-8s are naturally balanced due to the order in which the pistons rise and fall in the block, flat-plane-crank V-8s have only half their vibrations cancelled out naturally, and the vibrations only get worse as engine speeds increase. Because the vibrations are caused by the movements of the pistons themselves, lightweight pistons and short strokes can help reduce (but not eliminate) the vibration of a flat-plane-crank engine. Aside from being annoying in the cockpit, vibrations can damage components or cause them to wear out more quickly.


Chevrolet, clearly, has calculated the performance advantage of lightening the rotating assembly and improving scavenging are worth the expense of designing a new engine, which explains the flat-plane crank. Why not a flat-plane crank pushrod engine, though? While it's mechanically possible, there's no advantage. Exhaust scavenging works better the faster an engine spins, and getting high RPM out of an engine requires a robust valvetrain. Even the best pushrod engine, the mighty LS7, maxxes out at 7,000 RPM. At higher engine speeds, flex in the valvetrain hurts precision and stability, which hurt performance. Ford's 5.2-liter Voodoo flat-plane crank V-8 doesn't spin to 8,250 RPM because of the crank, it's because of the advanced dual-overhead cam valvetrain.


That explains the flat-plane crankshaft and blasphemous dual-overhead cams, but just keeping up with Ford doesn't explain the turbos. Le Mans does. Le Mans' sanctioning body, the ACO, uses a formula called "Balance of Power" to attempt to level the playing field between different engine types and sizes, and for the past two years it's favored turbocharged engines from Ford and Ferrari to Corvette's detriment. Critically, Balance of Power can be adjusted simply by changing the maximum boost pressure of a turbocharged engine, whereas the naturally aspirated C7.R is forced to breathe through CNC-machined metal intake restrictors which have to be made from scratch.


Where would Chevrolet get such an engine? Why, from Cadillac, of course. Not quite, though. Even though Cadillac's new 4.2-liter twin-turbo DOHC Blackwing V-8 is built at the Corvette's engine plant in Bowling Green, Kentucky, GM has been adamant it's exclusive to Cadillac. How exclusive? Cadillac President Steve Carlisle told us Corvette would get it "over my dead body" and even Corvette champion and GM President Mark Reuss has said the engine hasn't even been test-fit in the C8 because it's a Cadillac engine.


Carlisle and Reuss may be splitting hairs, though. While the Z06 and C8.R's engine may not simply be a Blackwing with the wick turned up, it's likely to have a lot in common with Cadillac's engine but with enough different to make it a game of semantics. For starters, the Blackwing is a cross-plane-crank engine, so that would have to change. More critically, the Blackwing is a hot-vee design, a reverse-flow engine which puts its turbochargers in the valley between the heads rather than hanging off the sides of the engine. The leaked CAD drawings of a supposed twin-turbo DOHC C8 engine clearly show a traditional design with outboard turbos and the intake in the valley. At minimum, the Blackwing's crankshaft and heads would need to change, and that's a huge amount of work.


It doesn't necessarily mean starting over from scratch, though. The Blackwing was designed, in Cadillac's words, to be a "compact, mass-efficient" design which emphasized power-density and packaging, both important in the C8's small engine compartment. To share development costs, it's possible the C8 motor could use the Blackwing's block, and much of what was learned in developing the Blackwing's heads could be reused in the reconfigured Corvette heads.


There's one more change that would have to be made: bore. The Blackwing is an under-square engine—its stroke is longer than the diameter of its cylinder bores. Good for reliability and torque, bad for high-RPM performance. All modern flat-plane-crank V-8s, from Ford to Ferrari to McLaren, use over-square engines to reduce piston speed and quell those nasty flat-plane vibrations. Assuming Chevrolet doesn't change the stroke, the Blackwing would need to be bored out, increasing the displacement.



Don't expect a 5.5-liter displacement, though. Many outlets have tossed this number around without any basis. It may have come from the C7.R's engine, which is restricted by IMSA racing rules to 5.5 liters, and the old rule states "there's no replacement for displacement." Except there is. It's called forced induction, that's where the turbos come in. More important than that, though, larger displacement (bigger bores and longer strokes) means bigger vibrations, which is why it was so shocking to see Ford launch a 5.2-liter flat-plane-crank V-8. There's a reason Ferrari's flat-plane-crank twin-turbo DOHC V-8 is 3.9 liters and McLaren's is 3.8. Expect the C8's displacement to grow from the Blackwing's 4.2 liters, but fall well short of the 5.5-liter number that's been thrown around. The number of issues Ford has had with Voodoo engine failures alone should dispel any notion of Chevrolet going to an even larger displacement.


According to Chevrolet, the C8.R race car will be revealed sometime this fall. When it does, take a good look under the engine cover, because what you see there is what you'll be getting in the next Z06, and it won't have pushrods.

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Old 08-27-2019, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Tech
Thanks for that. I got a used hardcover book off Amazon and it arrived a few days ago. I'm in the second chapter; excellent book so far.

Well nothing new there. The same old "old guard" running the Big Three with the same arrogant mentality. It was like that in DeLorean's days, then in this book and look at the "buy-outs" that some of them needed some 10 years ago.

As one of my flying students put it and he is a very hands-on mechanical engineer who tried to talk me out of my first and only American car back in 1981, "I would have no problem buying an American car, but I would not blow $10K on junk". Funny thing is, "junk" was mentioned in the above book. Unfortunately, I did not listen to my student and bought a new American car. What an utter piece of crap that car was. Sold it 17 months later and bought Japanese.

The only American car I would consider is a Corvette or a Mustang, and preferably the older ones, but the garage is full.
glad you're enjoying it. Alot of insightful knowledge there, I liked the following
  • How the Fiero "Iron Duke" four cylinder built in GM Brazil engine plant had a conrod defect rate of 1 in 4 so a Fiero/4 owner had a ~62% chance of having a engine with a defective conrod
  • How when Toyotas starting using some of the same subcontrators as the big-3 Detroit, Toyota was dismayed of the awful quality. Instead of firing them, Toyota sent their experts to those subcontractors and helped them improve their process and production to improve qaulity (that plastic manufacturer in Ohio who made the dashpanels with the inconsistent quality)
  • Smith and Stempel drove GM into the ground, the GM board member who realized how awful the environment was the former Proter and Gamble CEO Smale who later became the head of the GM board since he looked indepth into GM's woes esspecially accounting and finance.
Agree with you that not much was learned by GM exec's as Wagner did similar actions as his former CEO's which resulted in his ouster.

Another good auto business book (but not as great as Comeback) is "The End of Detroit: How the Big Three Lost Their Grip on the American Car Market"
Amazon Amazon

Next auto industry book I wanna read is Bob Lutz's book
Old 08-27-2019, 06:46 PM
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Great work!! Now Toyota forums needs to do the same thing...
Old 10-03-2019, 06:50 AM
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Chevrolet dropped the cover on the drop-top C8 Corvette and it looks just as cool as the coupe, possibly cooler.

The first-ever convertible hardtop Corvette goes into production in the first quarter of 2020 with a starting sticker price of $67,495 for the 1LT trim level, just a $7500 bump in price over the coupe.

“…and there was much rejoicing.”

The two-piece hardtop is powered by six electric motors - more reliable than previous hydraulic systems, Chevy said. It goes up or down in just 16 seconds, and you can do it while driving at up to 30 mph. Chevy even showed a video of the top going up and down at speed, so you know it works. Then members of the production team raised and lowered the top several times during an evening-long party at The Motoring Club in Marina del Rey, California, an event run simultaneously with a reveal in Miami.

A divider glass raises or lowers to fine-tune air circulation in the cockpit. The sheet-molded composite top stows under a very stylish cover with glorious fairings reminiscent of… well, you decide. Officially those fairings are reminiscent of the nacelles of jet engines. You'll see something similar on CERVs I and II. Some might see some Maranello in there, but lead exterior designer Vlad Kapitonov insists there’s no Ferrari in his design.

“I had an aesthetic of a Corvette in my mind and then many things inspired me: airplanes, fighter jets, anything fast and emotional.”

After seeing it in the flesh, we gotta believe Kapitonov was spot on.




The convertible shares the same 6.2-liter small block V8 LT2 engine with the coupe, as you’d expect, making 495 horsepower and 470 lb ft of torque (when equipped with performance exhaust). That engine will be mated to Chevy’s first-ever eight-speed dual-clutch transmission that Chevy promises will provide “lightning-fast shifts and excellent power transfer.”

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Even though the exterior has a uniquely distinct shape all its own, the aerodynamic drag is identical to the coupe. The top itself stows in a compartment right behind the driver’s and passenger’s noggins, on top of the engine. Will the top melt when stowed back there, right above 495 ragin’ horsepower? Chevy says there are heat shields back there to protect it from engine heat. And the rear trunk looked big enough to hold a set of golf clubs or two.

The chassis itself had to be modified with unique springs and dampers to account for the droptop’s extra 70 to 80 pounds (no specific weight was announced at the California reveal).

The interior is the same as the coupe, with the long line of buttons to the right of the shifter.

“We were trying to keep the dash as low as possible,” said interior designer Tristan Murphy. “The whole name of the game is keeping everything low.”

Both driver’s and passengers seats are comfortably low. I sat in both seats, then asked a guy perhaps twice as wide as me how he felt in the driver’s seat and he said he loved it. So everyone will like sitting in the new Corvette, hardtop or droptop, it seems.

“We’re particularly proud of the way it looks both with the top up and down,” said Kapitonov.

And with 17,000 different combinations of colors, tops and trim, chances are you can find one to suit your tastes. Go to chevrolet.com to activate the visualizer and build your own C8 convertible. You won't be disappointed.

https://autoweek.com/article/car-new...mg-its-topless
Old 10-03-2019, 09:36 AM
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https://www.netcarshow.com/chevrolet...corvette_c8.r/

More than 60 years of racing heritage helped set the stage for the most important debut in Corvette's racing history, as Chevy's first mid-engine GTLM race car - the Corvette C8.R - made its surprise debut alongside the 2020 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray convertible at the Kennedy Space Center. The C8.R and Corvette Stingray represent a true technology transfer, taking lessons from the street straight to the track and vice versa.

"The C8.R is much more than just a race-tuned version of the 2020 Corvette Stingray. It's a culmination of many years of testing and development between GM Design, Propulsion, Engineering and the Corvette Racing team," said Jim Campbell, Chevrolet U.S. vice president of Performance and Motorsports. "The collaboration between these teams has allowed us to take these vehicles' performance to the next level, both on the street and the track."

With its tremendous success on the track over the last 20 years, Corvette Racing has helped push the development, performance and popularity of Corvette's top-line performance cars on race tracks across the world.

Since 1999, Corvette Racing has won 107 races - the most of any professional sports car team in North America - including 13 Team championships and 12 Driver and Manufacturer titles. In 2015, Corvette Racing became the first sports car team in 15 years win endurance racing's Triple Crown - victories at Rolex 24 at Daytona, Twelve Hours of Sebring and 24 Hours of Le Mans - in the same season.

The C8.R No. 4 car dons a new silver livery, inspired by the color of iconic Corvette concepts such as the 1973 Chevrolet Aerovette and the 1959 Corvette Stingray Racer. This car also features yellow accents.

Complementing the No. 4 vehicle is the No. 3 car which will feature a traditional yellow color scheme with silver accents that continues the lineage of the successful GTLM racing Corvettes of the past 20 years.

The C8.R will make its racing debut at Rolex 24 at Daytona in January 2020.







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