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I imagine it'll sell well, though I would be shocked if we see any sell for the $60k mark. I expect many to be in the mid70-90k mark once options start getting added.
Z06 will almost definitely be over 100k
ZR1, if they do one, maybe in the barely sub-200k range?
I don't think the price range will be that wide. My guess - the Z06 will start around $85k, and the ZR1 would probably be in the $130k range.
I understand that because this starts at $60k for a mid engine "supercar", we can't expect the same type of refinement and details as a $200k+ mid engine super car...
Maybe GM will deliver a miracle ... but a 60k mid-engined, all-new Corvette? It's gonna have a list of problems in its first few years about as long as a month's worth of groceries for a family of five all of whom have different food allergies/sensitivities.
This is not a knock on the car/idea itself. I personally think it's completely awesome idea (not a fan of the rear or that gaudy looking center console/armrest area....that huge blank space is gonna look horrid in real life I would imagine....), but I truly respect those who will buy the C8 as early adopters in its first few years because there will be guaranteed to be a quite the laundry list of issues and I wouldn't be surprised if another class-action lawsuit emerges due to some huge incompetence on GM's part again.....we'll see how they execute this.
But the reality is that...at such a low level MSRP, you know there has to be cuts/compromises made...we'll find out where they are soon enough....
Hopefully this car will sell... to make a statement that if the car is good and affordable, people will still buy it... Not everyone wants an SUV...
If not, well i guess that is the beginning of the end...
From 2014-2018, GM sold 140,000 Corvettes just in the US alone. That's over 2300 units a month on average. It's still keeping that sales volume so far in 2019. I think keeping this sales volume going shouldn't be an issue. In fact, GM had no choice but to switch to MR to keep that sales volume going. FR just isn't good enough anymore when super cars are all over 500hp, and in the ZR1 case, over 750hp. I bet the C8 ZR1 will be about 800hp and there's no way FR will be able to put that power down effectively without losing elsewhere.
Originally Posted by nist7
Maybe GM will deliver a miracle ... but a 60k mid-engined, all-new Corvette? It's gonna have a list of problems in its first few years about as long as a month's worth of groceries for a family of five all of whom have different food allergies/sensitivities.
This is not a knock on the car/idea itself. I personally think it's completely awesome idea (not a fan of the rear or that gaudy looking center console/armrest area....that huge blank space is gonna look horrid in real life I would imagine....), but I truly respect those who will buy the C8 as early adopters in its first few years because there will be guaranteed to be a quite the laundry list of issues and I wouldn't be surprised if another class-action lawsuit emerges due to some huge incompetence on GM's part again.....we'll see how they execute this.
But the reality is that...at such a low level MSRP, you know there has to be cuts/compromises made...we'll find out where they are soon enough....
Haha, there are a list of lawsuits going on for the C7 Corvette related to different issues. But ya the way that the car is produced, it's almost like any other mass production cars. I don't think it's gonna be unreliable. But like a lot of first year models, the C8 might suffer a few issues here and there which think is normal.
To be fair though, I'm guessing the $60k model will be relatively spartan, especially when looking at the current C7 pricing structure and packages. My guess is that a fully loaded C8 Stingray with the 3LT package and Z51 performance package will be about $80k. Still a bargain for sure as the cheapest 992 911 Carrera starts at $91k. Granted, Porsche seems to hold value better over time. At $80k though, one can get a Porsche 718 Cayman GTS. And that's a brilliant car other than the fact that it's a 4-banger. But it's a very fast 4-banger nonetheless. It's also very good at holding its value as my buddy almost bought one and did a lot of research on depreciation lol. This latter point is probably why Chevy can't really price the C8 much higher as they know their depreciation sucks.
Maybe GM will deliver a miracle ... but a 60k mid-engined, all-new Corvette? It's gonna have a list of problems in its first few years about as long as a month's worth of groceries for a family of five all of whom have different food allergies/sensitivities.
This is not a knock on the car/idea itself. I personally think it's completely awesome idea (not a fan of the rear or that gaudy looking center console/armrest area....that huge blank space is gonna look horrid in real life I would imagine....), but I truly respect those who will buy the C8 as early adopters in its first few years because there will be guaranteed to be a quite the laundry list of issues and I wouldn't be surprised if another class-action lawsuit emerges due to some huge incompetence on GM's part again.....we'll see how they execute this.
But the reality is that...at such a low level MSRP, you know there has to be cuts/compromises made...we'll find out where they are soon enough....
Starting to make me think that bringing the C8 project to actual fruition really is a sort of "moonshot" ....
like this spec
rapid blue, 2lt, off white seats/black dash
transparent roof, silver engine, red calipers, black with chrome lip wheels, no spoiler
I messed with it yesterday. Mine was similar to yours, but I added the carbon lip and spoiler pack, competition seats, yellow stitching and yellow calipers. I'm certainly warming up the design, even though it is a bit of a mess.
PS - @srika regarding lineage, the front end, from the right angle, is very similar to the C6 & C7.
relatively speaking yes.. obviously you can't compare it to a freaking Camry... If it is as reliable as 911 Turbo... then i would consider that as reliable for what it is.
Now that the mid-engined Chevy Corvette has officially been revealed to the world, we can start to focus on some of its neat new features. That includes a button marked with the letter Z that's mounted on the left spoke of the car's squared-off steering wheel, which was teased by Chevy before the C8's official debut. That image showed a strange silver button that we guessed at the time might be some sort of dedicated drive-mode selector. As it turns out, we were right.
The previous-gen Corvette C7 had selectable drive modes including Tour, Weather, Eco, Sport, and Track, and the mid-engined C8 adds even more user customization. Z mode allows drivers to now mix and match settings for the engine, transmission, and steering beyond these presets. Models equipped with the available magnetorheological dampers will also offer adjustable suspension settings. Once you set your individual Z-mode preferences via the center screen, pressing the steering-wheel button activates your favorite combination of performance settings
BMW M cars such as the 10Best-winning M2 and even the Hyundai Veloster N have similar switches on their steering wheels. While those buttons are designated with a letter directly pulled from their respective model names, the one on the C8 Corvette's helm wears a "Z" for historical reasons. Chevy says the letter pays homage to prominent Corvette models and packages throughout the years. These include the Z51 performance package, the Z06 model, and the almighty ZR1—all of which we expect will eventually return on the mid-engined C8 Corvette.
Maybe GM will deliver a miracle ... but a 60k mid-engined, all-new Corvette? It's gonna have a list of problems in its first few years about as long as a month's worth of groceries for a family of five all of whom have different food allergies/sensitivities.
This is not a knock on the car/idea itself. I personally think it's completely awesome idea (not a fan of the rear or that gaudy looking center console/armrest area....that huge blank space is gonna look horrid in real life I would imagine....), but I truly respect those who will buy the C8 as early adopters in its first few years because there will be guaranteed to be a quite the laundry list of issues and I wouldn't be surprised if another class-action lawsuit emerges due to some huge incompetence on GM's part again.....we'll see how they execute this.
But the reality is that...at such a low level MSRP, you know there has to be cuts/compromises made...we'll find out where they are soon enough....
Well the elimination of the CF tub is probably a substantial cost savings in itself, probably $50k+ in savings. Making a tub is a massively labor intensive and takes a long time to do.
Originally Posted by civicdrivr
I messed with it yesterday. Mine was similar to yours, but I added the carbon lip and spoiler pack, competition seats, yellow stitching and yellow calipers. I'm certainly warming up the design, even though it is a bit of a mess.
Mine was exactly the same but without the comp seats.
Also, if you make the intake finishers body colored it looks much cleaner and better.
In reality, I'd do a 2LT in blue with yellow stitching, belts, and calipers with body colored intakes and call it good. I don't need/want any of the CF bits so I'd pass on those.
Now that Chevy has pulled the cover off the 2020 Corvette Stingray, more minute details are continuing to trickle out of the Detroit automaker. The latest from the company is that it will build the Stingray’s 6.2-liter LT2 V8 engine at its Tonawanda, New York engine plant. The LT2 will join a variety of other GM engines at the facility. The engine will then head to GM’s Bowling Green, Kentucky factory where the company will assemble the C8 Corvette Stingray. Production is scheduled to begin later this year.
GM President Mark Reuss said in the announcement, “The Tonawanda team is up to the challenge to build this new LT2 engine,” adding that it will meet the levels of quality Corvettes customers expect. Tonawanda employs more than 1,500 people.
The mill, which Chevy bills as the most powerful entry-level Corvette ever – and they’re not wrong, makes 495 horsepower and 470 pound-feet of torque when the car’s equipped with the optional performance exhaust. Power routes to the rear wheels through an eight-speed dual-clutch automatic gearbox. It can reach 60 miles per hour (96 kilometers per hour) in less than three seconds, according to the company, with a starting price under $60,000.
The announcement feels like a capstone to nearly a week of news about the mid-engined Corvette. While splashy details about its design, performance, and powertrain were huge headline grabbers, we’ve learned a lot in the last week about the car. Don’t expect a manual gearbox. The car’s top speed remains a mystery even to Chevrolet. And customers can customize up to five digits of the VIN for $5,000.
While we’re over the initial hurdle that is the all-new C8 Corvette, rumors are already swirling about what’s next. A hybrid and electric version are just two such possibilities. We know there will be a portfolio of Corvette models, which means customers can expect even more horsepower and performance in some form or another. And there’s the possibility GM expands the Corvette name into an entire brand that includes a sedan, crossover, and Corvette-based Cadillac sports car. Stay tuned for more.
Maybe you’re seriously considering the 2020 C8 Chevy Corvette. If so, then you’d want to make the car yours by personalizing the hell out of it, right? Well, now you can take the customization a step further and even mess with the car’s vehicle identification number.
Apparently, buyers will be able to customize the last five digits of the 17-digit VIN when they buy the car from the factory, according to CarsDirect, citing a Chevrolet order guide. The option will cost $5,000, which works out to $1,000 a digit, a General Motors spokesperson confirmed to the outlet
Unlike other customization parts, which are theoretically all removable and replaceable, the VIN is permanent (unless you are a car thief). So even if you sell your mid-engine Corvette one day, it will always bear the proof of your ownership. It also probably makes the car pretty easy to track down if you ever want to find it again. That’s kind of neat.
Five digits isn’t that many, but it’s still enough room for some fun.
I’ve made my feelings about bumper stickers clear, and I’m not a fan of customized license plates, but I like this idea. It’s subtle and hidden most of the time. Only you would really know about it. Nobody goes up to a car at a cars and coffee event, looks straight down the windshield and bellows, “NICE VIN, BRO.”
Man I'm finding it hard to like the design of this car. It looks like it's been designed by committee. Sounds like the perfect sports car on paper though. I'm sure it'll grow on me over time...
Man I'm finding it hard to like the design of this car.
Reminds me of an NSX or Ferrari. Nice if you like that kind of F-117 styling.
GM makes it sound like they invented all the high tech it uses.
For starters, the DCT is a French design dating back to the 1930s, at least the idea and on paper and first put into production by Porsche in the 956 and later in their production cars.
The mid-engine, well that is debatable and going back well over 70 years.
Now if they can put some quality into it, it'll be a bargain and a great car. My neighbour has a 2017, good from far but far from good when I look at details up close. You can't beat the performance for the money if that is the sole criteria.
[QUOTE=Tech;16459617Now if they can put some quality into it, it'll be a bargain and a great car. My neighbour has a 2017, good from far but far from good when I look at details up close. You can't beat the performance for the money if that is the sole criteria.[/QUOTE]
At such a price point there is virtually 100% chance that that will be compromises. This is not to denigrate the concept, which as you said, is undisputed king of value for money in its performance capabilities.
Doesn't surprise me, with all the features and performance.
Also the level of quality and detail in the interior (closeup pics) and especially the aluminum frame with all it's open honeycomb ribbing cast structural elements look great.
Wonder how many rivets and welds were made on that frame.
This could be great news for those looking at C7s (potentially C6/C5s also) since this may mean that lot of current owners are going to dump their C7/6/5s to upgrade into the C8.
This could be great news for those looking at C7s (potentially C6/C5s also) since this may mean that lot of current owners are going to dump their C7/6/5s to upgrade into the C8.
There a ton of C7 Z06es and Grand Sports for sale at Carmax. And if you’re right, you’re going to be able to get a great deal.
The Grand Sport is definitely the one to get. Z06 has insane power but I've read it's borderline uncontrollable. Grand Sport has all the looks of the Z06 and the go of the normal Stingray, which is still not slow.
There a ton of C7 Z06es and Grand Sports for sale at Carmax. And if you’re right, you’re going to be able to get a great deal.
I wonder if this also puts new C7 dealers in a bind currently...why would anyone pay for a new C7 when the C8 is just right around the corner? This could mean deep discounts on stale C7s also sitting on dealer lots today
Hopefully very deep, but the Chevy website is already promoting the last year of the C7 as "the last of its generation". I expect most of the shitty dealers to hold close to sticker because it'll be a "collectible".
Looks like you can easily do $15k off a Grand Sport right now, with fall rolling through soon you can probably do even better than that in a few months.
At such a price point there is virtually 100% chance that there will be compromises. This is not to denigrate the concept, which as you said, is undisputed king of value for money in its performance capabilities.
Some of us would spend more money, but then you are looking at a different car. Went to the dealer and sat in a C7 last summer. If I spent that much money after sitting in it, I would have regretted it so I bought something else which cost me far more but met my quality requirements.
As for the C8, it looks to be more for the younger crowd with flat screens and I am sorry to say that long string of switches from the dash that looks like s--t. Not apparent at first, but when you work on vehicles, you quickly see how cheaply some are made. That would drive me nuts.
Certainly not for the purist, but the mid-engine is the best thing on the car. My Vette choices are still the '63 to '67 models and the '70 with the LT1. Not performers, but they are nice. I almost bought one ages ago.
I wonder if this also puts new C7 dealers in a bind currently...why would anyone pay for a new C7 when the C8 is just right around the corner? This could mean deep discounts on stale C7s also sitting on dealer lots today
Maybe not. Its like the 993, the last of the air cooled 911s before they went to liquid cooling. The 993 has a slew of serious upgrades compared to the previous model 964. And they command a high price.
No manual in a C8? I wonder if Corvette owners care, although some do (I would). A long time ago I read that 80% of Corvettes were automatics. I would not have bought my 991 with the PDK transmission. Do I care that my manual is 0.4s slower to 60...nope and I am not on the track to win races.
Looks like you can easily do $15k off a Grand Sport right now, with fall rolling through soon you can probably do even better than that in a few months.
6,000 C7's left mean a good amount of cars left for sales and discounts. Only folks willing to pay for the C7 are those who don't know about the C8, or hate that its not coming in a manual, or since it's the last front engine corvette.
Maybe GM will deliver a miracle ... but a 60k mid-engined, all-new Corvette? It's gonna have a list of problems in its first few years about as long as a month's worth of groceries for a family of five all of whom have different food allergies/sensitivities.
This is not a knock on the car/idea itself. I personally think it's completely awesome idea (not a fan of the rear or that gaudy looking center console/armrest area....that huge blank space is gonna look horrid in real life I would imagine....), but I truly respect those who will buy the C8 as early adopters in its first few years because there will be guaranteed to be a quite the laundry list of issues and I wouldn't be surprised if another class-action lawsuit emerges due to some huge incompetence on GM's part again.....we'll see how they execute this.
But the reality is that...at such a low level MSRP, you know there has to be cuts/compromises made...we'll find out where they are soon enough....
When the C7 came out the quality of the interior went up dramatically in terms of being far better than a car at it's price point, the C5 and C6 had pretty awful interiors. Some of the underneigh components were also substandard but I give GM credit for using a rear tranaxle for better weigh distribution.
The biggest compromise is the pushrod LT2 but the small block have proven it's value in performance and reliability. After the Lotus/Mercury DOHC V8 Vette disaster and some otther GM 4 valve problems the small block Chevy is ok.
The advantage Bowling Green has is wide scale manufacturing resources that allow the to use other parts of GM infrastructure to get better components (those frame castings are evident of that).
I looked closely at the Huracan, 2G NSX, and C7 Z01 at the Amelia Concours a few years ago and was surprised how close they were in quality of various components especially the switchgear and interior.
Supply chain management and better parts bin engineering have made all of them better.
And larger Vette production also greatly makes cost containment easier as well as having GM purchasing and supply chain management (something that dramatically helped Lamborghini when Audi bought them)
Originally Posted by iforyou
From 2014-2018, GM sold 140,000 Corvettes just in the US alone. That's over 2300 units a month on average. It's still keeping that sales volume so far in 2019. I think keeping this sales volume going shouldn't be an issue. In fact, GM had no choice but to switch to MR to keep that sales volume going. FR just isn't good enough anymore when super cars are all over 500hp, and in the ZR1 case, over 750hp. I bet the C8 ZR1 will be about 800hp and there's no way FR will be able to put that power down effectively without losing elsewhere.
Haha, there are a list of lawsuits going on for the C7 Corvette related to different issues. But ya the way that the car is produced, it's almost like any other mass production cars. I don't think it's gonna be unreliable. But like a lot of first year models, the C8 might suffer a few issues here and there which think is normal.
To be fair though, I'm guessing the $60k model will be relatively spartan, especially when looking at the current C7 pricing structure and packages. My guess is that a fully loaded C8 Stingray with the 3LT package and Z51 performance package will be about $80k. Still a bargain for sure as the cheapest 992 911 Carrera starts at $91k. Granted, Porsche seems to hold value better over time. At $80k though, one can get a Porsche 718 Cayman GTS. And that's a brilliant car other than the fact that it's a 4-banger. But it's a very fast 4-banger nonetheless. It's also very good at holding its value as my buddy almost bought one and did a lot of research on depreciation lol. This latter point is probably why Chevy can't really price the C8 much higher as they know their depreciation sucks.
QFT, large scale Vette manufacturing makes a difference. One area I've wondered about is how well Bowling Green manages their business model with such wide variation of year to year sales. Almost motorcycle production like variations.
Wasn't aware of the C7 lawsuits.
Originally Posted by nanxun
Starting to make me think that bringing the C8 project to actual fruition really is a sort of "moonshot" ....
I give C8 Executive chief engineer Tadge Juechter alot of credit there, from what I read he was adamant about alot of features in the C7 that added to performance but were't seen or even felt unless the car was driven hard.
The hollow sand cast suspension A arms to increase rigidity and reduce unsprung weight and electronic differential.
Originally Posted by SamDoe1
Well the elimination of the CF tub is probably a substantial cost savings in itself, probably $50k+ in savings. Making a tub is a massively labor intensive and takes a long time to do.
The cost and labor time for carbon fibre chassis has come down alot, composite technology has advanced alot whether through resin transfer molding (which McLaren went with on their most recent cars) or using prepreg carbon material.
The BMW i3 and Alfa 4C have proved relatively large 3D low cost carbon structures can be made on large scale.
The best move GM did with the C7 was bring the aluminum frame production inhouse on the C7, the C6 Z06 aluminum frame was manufactured by Alcoa.
Bowling Green now has all the tooling, robotics, welding, and riveting to make all Vette's with aluminum frames now.
Originally Posted by SamDoe1
If those are cast Al parts, they are gigantic and that's an expensive process to do.
+1, that C8 lower suspension/motor cradle structural sections in the back span the width of the frame.
Literally a work of metal art, even more impressive than the mostly extruded aluminum structural frame elements of Ferrari's, Huracan and Audi's.
Sure the new R8 has a few small cast pieces but nothing in size to the C8.
As much as I like manuals, I also get why it's a DCT only with the lackluster demand. It also goes with the character of the car sorta like Ferrari and Lamborghini.
I got a ride in a 488GTB last fall, and after a few minutes can see why it's a DCT only car. Everything happens so fast that a manual would create alot of delay.
Regarding the interior - I saw a video last night on the production C8, and they were saying this one has real leather seats and the aluminum trim is actually aluminum. The carbon fiber trim is also real carbon fiber. Hopefully that does make it feel more upscale.
Regarding the interior - I saw a video last night on the production C8, and they were saying this one has real leather seats and the aluminum trim is actually aluminum. The carbon fiber trim is also real carbon fiber. Hopefully that does make it feel more upscale.
To be honest, i am not sure if that is a good thing for practical reasons..
Some of us would spend more money, but then you are looking at a different car. Went to the dealer and sat in a C7 last summer. If I spent that much money after sitting in it, I would have regretted it so I bought something else which cost me far more but met my quality requirements.
As for the C8, it looks to be more for the younger crowd with flat screens and I am sorry to say that long string of switches from the dash that looks like s--t. Not apparent at first, but when you work on vehicles, you quickly see how cheaply some are made. That would drive me nuts.
Certainly not for the purist, but the mid-engine is the best thing on the car. My Vette choices are still the '63 to '67 models and the '70 with the LT1. Not performers, but they are nice. I almost bought one ages ago.
Very true. I saw a somewhat popular youtuber that essentially compared the C8 Z51 to a bunch of other mid engined exotics and essentially just said: "look at how much more expensive those other cars are and look at the Corvette's price and 0-60 and its mid engined!!!" Certainly, there are a LOT more to a sports car than just 3 paper metrics. On paper it "wins" and again I applaud this effort, but it's no surprise that fanboys are just head over heels for this.
And speaking of fan boys...and sports car enthusiasts in general, you bring up my next point:
Originally Posted by Tech
No manual in a C8? I wonder if Corvette owners care, although some do (I would). A long time ago I read that 80% of Corvettes were automatics. I would not have bought my 991 with the PDK transmission. Do I care that my manual is 0.4s slower to 60...nope and I am not on the track to win races.
This is a HGUE point that I feel people really glossed over and to me it actually shows WHY manuals will be dying off sooner than later (it will still be preserved in very niche vehicles, aka Ariel Atom, Lotus, etc.).
I feel like literally NO ONE cares that the C8 will have 0% of manual and people are like....eh well, ok whatever, LOOK AT HOW CHEAP IT IS AND ITS MID ENGINED AND IT GOES TO 60 IN LESS THAN 3 SECONDS!!!!!!!!!!!
I am very surprised that there is not as much outrage over non-manual option in what is a legendary and iconic American sports car. A sign of the times I guess. Or maybe the whole Save the Manual movement is really just old fashioned gate-keeping and it needs to be evolved out.
Originally Posted by Legend2TL
When the C7 came out the quality of the interior went up dramatically in terms of being far better than a car at it's price point, the C5 and C6 had pretty awful interiors. Some of the underneigh components were also substandard but I give GM credit for using a rear tranaxle for better weigh distribution.
The biggest compromise is the pushrod LT2 but the small block have proven it's value in performance and reliability. After the Lotus/Mercury DOHC V8 Vette disaster and some otther GM 4 valve problems the small block Chevy is ok.
The advantage Bowling Green has is wide scale manufacturing resources that allow the to use other parts of GM infrastructure to get better components (those frame castings are evident of that).
I looked closely at the Huracan, 2G NSX, and C7 Z01 at the Amelia Concours a few years ago and was surprised how close they were in quality of various components especially the switchgear and interior.
Supply chain management and better parts bin engineering have made all of them better.
And larger Vette production also greatly makes cost containment easier as well as having GM purchasing and supply chain management (something that dramatically helped Lamborghini when Audi bought them)
Well made points. Except I would probably still question the interior quality. Yes the C7 is certainly VASTLY superior to the prior generations, but I think the difference comes in how well that quality wears over time. The initial quality and feel will obviously be very nice as all the reviews are raving, but I have heard and read that many C7s, only a few short years old, are really showing age/wear and honestly...still some questions on material and build quality appear to still remain.
C8 will hopefully have some incremental improvements over that along with economies of scale, though again I fear with such a drastic platform change, how much attention are they putting to that brand new interior. I do also fear how well that long center console arm/wall of switches will wear...especially over time.
And speaking of fan boys...and sports car enthusiasts in general, you bring up my next point:
This is a HUGE point that I feel people really glossed over and to me it actually shows WHY manuals will be dying off sooner than later.
Sadly people just look at performance numbers, instead of "do I really like the car". I had one of them at work constantly looking at the performance page in whatever magazine it was. Of course, it changed every model year.
Look at my 991. Hell it has rev-matching which I can turn off. Nice but can nobody heel n toe? Which brings me to the point, you do not need much of a driver anymore. Look at the 737 MAX8 (my student flies one), turn off all that computerized crap and fly the plane. Its not an F117.
Sadly people just look at performance numbers, instead of "do I really like the car". I had one of them at work constantly looking at the performance page in whatever magazine it was. Of course, it changed every model year.
Look at my 991. Hell it has rev-matching which I can turn off. Nice but can nobody heel n toe? Which brings me to the point, you do not need much of a driver anymore. Look at the 737 MAX8 (my student flies one), turn off all that computerized crap and fly the plane. Its not an F117.
Then don't buy one? They've already sold out the first model year run so it's clearly not hurting sales.
07-22-2019, 12:58 PM
+1, that C8 lower suspension/motor cradle structural sections in the back span the width of the frame.