Cadillac: Development and Technology news
Fahrvergnügen'd
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Maryland
Is the LS2/3/6's level of NVH just too high for a luxury car? If not, umm, put them in the Caddys already.
BTW, as someone that DOESN'T do an impression of a lemming every day I am fine with a very good V6 instead of a V8. I haven't driven Caddy's DI V6 yet but its 304hp is pretty damn good.
BTW, as someone that DOESN'T do an impression of a lemming every day I am fine with a very good V6 instead of a V8. I haven't driven Caddy's DI V6 yet but its 304hp is pretty damn good.
6G TLX-S
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: YVR
Originally Posted by dom
And typically (not always) the V8 provides the better performance.
Originally Posted by charliemike
Is the LS2/3/6's level of NVH just too high for a luxury car? If not, umm, put them in the Caddys already.
BTW, as someone that DOESN'T do an impression of a lemming every day I am fine with a very good V6 instead of a V8. I haven't driven Caddy's DI V6 yet but its 304hp is pretty damn good.
BTW, as someone that DOESN'T do an impression of a lemming every day I am fine with a very good V6 instead of a V8. I haven't driven Caddy's DI V6 yet but its 304hp is pretty damn good.
However, the current STS is 230+ pounds heavier than the E350. Similarly the CTS equiped with the DI V6 is 260 pounds heavier than the C350.
So sure, the Caddy motor makes more power... but it's pushing a bigger pig with it so it's a complete wash.
And once you jump up to the V8's in the German offerings it's just embarrasing.
Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
Agree. The domestic 3 engine technology is still lagging behind the Germans and the Japaneses in terms of building high tech V8's with high output and good fuel economy. Another option is to buy V8 powerplants from others just like Saturn did with it's Honda V6.
The LS2/LS3/LS7 is a pretty potent V8 with excellent fuel economy for it's power. Roughly 18/26 MPG
Senior Moderator
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From: Better Neighborhood, Arizona
Originally Posted by mrsteve
The "number of cylinders" argument is constantly offered as to why the Acura RL isn't competative with the BMW 5, the Lexus GS, or the MB E-Class; and not just here on Acurazine
The previous gen RL in my opinion looks far more expensive. Its quite surprising to some that my '02 RL has only 225 hp. Its the kind of car that looked like it had RWD and some balls to it. A 320 hp, 3.7 V6 + RWD in a car that looks a tad more masculine will go a long way in the perceptive eye of many.
Maybe I'm totally wrong, but thats just my view of why the RL isnt doing so well. Lack of marketing of course doesnt help either.
Race Director
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From: Orlando, Fl
Originally Posted by Ken1997TL
The newer RL isnt competitive because it looks like a Honda Accord. Personally that doesn't bother ME, but I'm not the typical RL owner.
The previous gen RL in my opinion looks far more expensive. Its quite surprising to some that my '02 RL has only 225 hp. Its the kind of car that looked like it had RWD and some balls to it. A 320 hp, 3.7 V6 + RWD in a car that looks a tad more masculine will go a long way in the perceptive eye of many.
The previous gen RL in my opinion looks far more expensive. Its quite surprising to some that my '02 RL has only 225 hp. Its the kind of car that looked like it had RWD and some balls to it. A 320 hp, 3.7 V6 + RWD in a car that looks a tad more masculine will go a long way in the perceptive eye of many.
Fahrvergnügen'd
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Maryland
Originally Posted by biker
Exactly - a V8 would not help the dismal sales of the RL. And the lack of a V8 won't hurt CTS/STS sales either - the V series is different.
Why do we buy nice cars? Bragging rights, image, the prestige.
For some people, they are content with driving a vanilla flavor equivalent of a car. They drive Accords and Impalas. But for many people (especially people who are shelling out big bucks for a luxury brand vehicle) the image is very important.
And I find Kevin Smith's statement below laughable --
"“We’ve really seen the V6 become the predominant engine in sales on the (2008) STS because it’s so close in power to the V8,” Cadillac spokesman Kevin Smith told Automotive News."
That's because you haven't developed a modern high-tech V8 engine in ages while the V6 technology has caught up.
For some people, they are content with driving a vanilla flavor equivalent of a car. They drive Accords and Impalas. But for many people (especially people who are shelling out big bucks for a luxury brand vehicle) the image is very important.
And I find Kevin Smith's statement below laughable --
"“We’ve really seen the V6 become the predominant engine in sales on the (2008) STS because it’s so close in power to the V8,” Cadillac spokesman Kevin Smith told Automotive News."
That's because you haven't developed a modern high-tech V8 engine in ages while the V6 technology has caught up.
Senior Moderator
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Appleton WI
Originally Posted by Pure Adrenaline
Why do we buy nice cars? Bragging rights, image, the prestige.
That's because you haven't developed a modern high-tech V8 engine in ages while the V6 technology has caught up.
That's because you haven't developed a modern high-tech V8 engine in ages while the V6 technology has caught up.
x2
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Originally Posted by srika
a Cadillac with a V6 does not sit well in my stomach. 
image people image. Cadillacs need V8s.
image people image. Cadillacs need V8s.
....and more so than Acura.Also
with Pure Adrenaline's concluding statement:
That's because you haven't developed a modern high-tech V8 engine in ages while the V6 technology has caught up.
אני עומד עם ישראל
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From: Los Gatos, CA
Another GM blunder that will bite them in the ass as they strive to regain credibility. The bean counters are once again in control? I understand the CAFE requirements. Hopefully the just use LS motors as options for those who need to have a V8.
I think Kevin Smith should stick with making movies, the car business isn't for him.
I think Kevin Smith should stick with making movies, the car business isn't for him.
אני עומד עם ישראל
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From: Los Gatos, CA
Image for a the luxury consumer. Practicality takes a backseat. You just need some mid-level products and a "true" luxury brand offers that. E350, E500, AMG. 535i, 550i, M5.
Personally, I don't care, but I'm not the demographics Cadillac hopes will buy their cars instead of the German midsizes. If GM really wants to take the Germans head on, they just need to offer some low volume higher power V8s before someone takes the plunge into a V.
Personally, I don't care, but I'm not the demographics Cadillac hopes will buy their cars instead of the German midsizes. If GM really wants to take the Germans head on, they just need to offer some low volume higher power V8s before someone takes the plunge into a V.
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GM: Cadillac V8 program scrapped due to CAFE
From Leftlanenews...
Earlier this month GM announced it was scrapping development of a new V8 engine for Cadillac. At the time, GM did not disclose a reason for the move. But at the Detroit auto show this week, CEO Rick Wagoner confirmed the U.S. government's new 35 mpg CAFE standard is the sole cause.
The cancellation of a successor to the Northstar engine family was "the direct result of the 35-mpg fuel legislation," Wagoner told Car and Driver magazine.
He said when the project was first started, his company had "more optimism" about the future of V8 engines and the effect of emissions and fuel economy regulations. As it turns out, GM's wishful thinking wasn't enough to prevent controversial law from claiming one of its first victims.
The move also raises questions about the future of fuel-thirsty engines in general — not only at GM but at other automakers as well. Ford, for examples, is putting an increased focus on turbocharged V6s. Even BMW is moving to turbocharging as a means of decreasing displacement. Some American luxury cars are already debuting as V6-only — take the new Cadillac CTS and Lincoln MKS as examples.
Because CAFE standards look at the overall fuel economy average for an entire company, low-volume high-performance vehicles are unlikely to be affected by CAFE. As for everything else, we could be witnessing the beginning of a trend away from large engines all together.
The cancellation of a successor to the Northstar engine family was "the direct result of the 35-mpg fuel legislation," Wagoner told Car and Driver magazine.
He said when the project was first started, his company had "more optimism" about the future of V8 engines and the effect of emissions and fuel economy regulations. As it turns out, GM's wishful thinking wasn't enough to prevent controversial law from claiming one of its first victims.
The move also raises questions about the future of fuel-thirsty engines in general — not only at GM but at other automakers as well. Ford, for examples, is putting an increased focus on turbocharged V6s. Even BMW is moving to turbocharging as a means of decreasing displacement. Some American luxury cars are already debuting as V6-only — take the new Cadillac CTS and Lincoln MKS as examples.
Because CAFE standards look at the overall fuel economy average for an entire company, low-volume high-performance vehicles are unlikely to be affected by CAFE. As for everything else, we could be witnessing the beginning of a trend away from large engines all together.
Thread Starter
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Washington DC (NOVA)
I like this trend. This will benefit all engines. What this will do is perfect force-feeding and will make it cheaper. So we will see more and more 1.4 Liter engines making 200HP for example. We already seeing them make 170HP in Europe from the same displacement.
Safety Car
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From: NC
Update
General Motors’ Cadillac brand was said to be working on a new flagship, rear-wheel drive sedan to take on the Mercedes-Benz S-Class and BMW 7-Series, but a new report suggest GM could be taking the project in an entirely new direction.
While an S-Class rivaling sedan is still on the table, Cadillac is considering a few other options, including a Maybach-like highway cruiser, a 4-door coupe not unlike the Mercedes CLS, a large coupe that would take on the Mercedes CL and, perhaps most interesting, a mid-engine sports car.
According to Car and Driver, GM execs are still high on the idea of a mid-engine sports car for Cadillac. The division 1st toyed with the idea with the Cien concept.
A production version of the CIen would give Cadillac an answer for the Mercedes SLS and Audi R8, but would require the development of a unique – and expensive – mid-engine platform. However, rumors of a mid-engine Chevrolet Corvette have been floating around for years, which could help spread out some of the development costs.
But even with some platform sharing, the Cadillac model would still command a price of at least $150,000. No decision on the project has been made, but one is expected by mid year.
Caddy considering bringing a new car to market.
Three Wheelin'
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From: SoCal
My first Avatar....
Joined: May 2006
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From: NJ
אני עומד עם ישראל
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Los Gatos, CA
If you told me in HS that I'd aspire to own a Cadillac I'd look at you like you were crazy, launch my GS-R and take off into the sunset chirping 1st thru 4th.
Now, I'd like to have a CTS-V or E63 one day like Bob. My grown man ride.
Now, I'd like to have a CTS-V or E63 one day like Bob. My grown man ride.
Senior Moderator
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From: Cleveland area, OH
If you'd told me the same five years ago, I'd have done exactly the same, except I'd be flooring my modded 3G TL (which is what I owned five years ago) as I drove away.
Race Director
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From: Orlando, Fl
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...ouch-screens/1
Now, activating the touch screen in a Cadillac won't even require a touch. Just putting your hand near it will cause it to activate.
Just as most people have mastered the art of operating their smartphones and tablet computers, Cadillac is going to bring similar movements to the car. It's called CUE, for Cadillac User Experience. Executives view it as the next great leap in simplicity and convenience.
The system is meant to sort out the confusion that some drivers feel with today's touch screens with icons and control knobs in many of today's cars that control functions like changing radio stations, finding your way with the navigation system and making phone calls.
The goal was to eliminate the 30 to 40 buttons that dot the center stacks of some cars and replace them with just a handful of easy-to-read icons. But Cadillac says it goes much farther. CUE "culminates in a groundbreaking system," says Don Butler, Cadillac's vice president of marketing.
It will sport a number of industry-leading features:
Hand gestures. If you move your hand within eight inches of the center touch screen as you drive, the number of icons increases to give you more choices of things to control. It's the first use of gesture recognition in a car.
Pinch and squeeze. Just as iPhone and iPad users have become accustomed to using their thumb and forefingers to make things bigger or smaller on their screens, Cadillac drivers will be able to do the same.
Sense recognition. Instead of just sliding your finger across the glass of the touch screen, you'll get a sensation in your finger that will feel like you're pushing a button. It feels like a high-end version of those metal crickets that are kids' toys, without the cricket sound.
Innovative storage. The front panel in the center stack opens to reveal a cubby hole for storage underneath.
In addition, Cadillac is redoing the instrument panel :
The goal is to give drivers more choice in what they see. They can make it look like today's cars or can customize it with any number of features to give them just the information they seek.
CUE comes first to the new Cadillac XTS, the luxury brand's new large car, in April. Next, it will show up on the new ATS small car next summer. Then it will come to other Cadillac models as each is refreshed or given a new look, such as the SRX.
Cadillac is unveiling a new system today that it bills as the next great leap forward in convenience and simplicity for drivers who want to make phone calls, control the temperature of the car, change the radio station and other in-car tasks.
Just as most people have mastered the art of operating their smartphones and tablet computers, Cadillac is going to bring similar movements to the car. It's called CUE, for Cadillac User Experience. Executives view it as the next great leap in simplicity and convenience.
The system is meant to sort out the confusion that some drivers feel with today's touch screens with icons and control knobs in many of today's cars that control functions like changing radio stations, finding your way with the navigation system and making phone calls.
The goal was to eliminate the 30 to 40 buttons that dot the center stacks of some cars and replace them with just a handful of easy-to-read icons. But Cadillac says it goes much farther. CUE "culminates in a groundbreaking system," says Don Butler, Cadillac's vice president of marketing.
It will sport a number of industry-leading features:
Hand gestures. If you move your hand within eight inches of the center touch screen as you drive, the number of icons increases to give you more choices of things to control. It's the first use of gesture recognition in a car.
Pinch and squeeze. Just as iPhone and iPad users have become accustomed to using their thumb and forefingers to make things bigger or smaller on their screens, Cadillac drivers will be able to do the same.
Sense recognition. Instead of just sliding your finger across the glass of the touch screen, you'll get a sensation in your finger that will feel like you're pushing a button. It feels like a high-end version of those metal crickets that are kids' toys, without the cricket sound.
Innovative storage. The front panel in the center stack opens to reveal a cubby hole for storage underneath.
In addition, Cadillac is redoing the instrument panel :
The goal is to give drivers more choice in what they see. They can make it look like today's cars or can customize it with any number of features to give them just the information they seek.
CUE comes first to the new Cadillac XTS, the luxury brand's new large car, in April. Next, it will show up on the new ATS small car next summer. Then it will come to other Cadillac models as each is refreshed or given a new look, such as the SRX.
Cadillac is unveiling a new system today that it bills as the next great leap forward in convenience and simplicity for drivers who want to make phone calls, control the temperature of the car, change the radio station and other in-car tasks.
when people can't figure things out?
Race Director
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From: Orlando, Fl
Safety Car
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From: NC
FlagShip
Cadillac has done well with GM’s Sigma platform. The rear-drive architecture has served under two generations of CTS, the passable if somewhat mundane STS, and Caddy’s first crossover, the original SRX. That said, the bones were altered—some feel compromised—to accommodate the now-defunct hulk known as the Northstar V-8, and ended up being far from cost-effective. Also, unlike the majority of GM’s platforms, Sigma has a relatively limited size bandwidth, as demonstrated by the dimensional similarities between the CTS and STS, and even the STS’s long-wheelbase sibling, the Chinese-built SLS. With the STS dead, the SRX now shifted to front-wheel-drive underpinnings, and the next-generation CTS migrating to the General’s new, highly versatile, and lighter Alpha platform, Sigma’s days are numbered.
Cue “The Imperial March”
Although the Alpha platform appears to be one of the best rear-wheel-drive component sets in the business, GM still recognized a need for an additional, larger RWD platform for the oft-rumored apocryphal “Cadillac flagship,” among other vehicles. Early thoughts for the kingly ride ranged from an eye-wateringly expensive model on a bespoke architecture (think Rolls-Royce Phantom) to a kind of monster sedan spun from the original Zeta platform (think widened Chevrolet Caprice cop car with a longer wheelbase). It seems the smart guys in the room prevailed and a middle-ground solution was devised: the Omega platform.
As platforms go, the Omega is as “all-new” as anybody is doing these days. Sure, most of the drivetrain equipment will be shared with other GM rear-drive cars and the rear-suspension geometry is intellectually related to that of Alpha, but there is no real commonality with the smaller platform beyond the way it all goes together in a plant. While Alpha is good for cars and crossovers ranging in size from something slightly smaller than the current BMW 3-series to a vehicle a bit larger than a 5-series, Omega moves up from there. At the bottom of its scale you could build a wider 5-series, while its upper bounds are said to be a vehicle measuring around 207 inches in length bumper-to-bumper (a couple of inches longer than a long-wheelbase 7).
The 1st product off the platform is a lineup-crowning successor to the still-to-be-introduced Epsilon-derived XTS. (This is not the flagship-y flagship.) Yep, a proper rear-drive sedan will supplant—if not completely replace—the XTS at the top of Cadillac’s offerings in about 2 and a half years; it will have the fast roofline currently applied to everything from the latest Ford Fusion to the Audi A7. In not-surprising news, the General’s 3.6-liter “high-feature” DOHC V-6—making around 310 hp—is expected to be the standard engine. A low-pressure, torque-biased take on the twin-turbo version of that engine—currently being prepped for the ATS-V, as we reported last May—could be plugged in as an alternative to the currently planned optional powerplant, the new-gen Tonawanda, New York–built “mystery” V-8. Regardless of powerplant, drive will be transmitted to the wheels through an all-new 8-speed automatic that also will find its way into the CTS, the ATS, and some GM trucks. While the default powertrain will be rear-drive, all-wheel drive will be offered to make sure the Omegas can be sold year-round in the Snow Belt, Rockies, and Pacific Northwest. With GM’s longitudinal dual-mode hybrid technology presently tied to a long-in-the-tooth four-speed automatic, there are rumblings the system will be reconfigured with the upcoming 8-speed. Although it is unclear if a hybrid is planned for the 1st Omega product, the platform has been designed to accommodate the batteries and ancillary bits of GM’s gas-electric systems.
The Void is Calling: Let’s Do the Flagship (Talk) Again
Of course, Omega won’t be used for a single model. When laying out the platform, the company designed it so that it could serve as the basis for a properly huge, properly sybaritic Cadillac flagship. This favorite of automotive journalists and bloggers has been rumored for years; its origins can be traced to the striking yet somehow comical Cadillac Sixteen concept. The division telegraphed its continued interest in building an über-Caddy last summer when it rolled out the Cadillac Ciel 4-door convertible at the Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance. (Here’s what the Ciel would look like as a sedan; pretty cool, right?) Whether the flagship ends up being a 4-door sedan, a big 2- or 4-door convertible, or a large, Mercedes CL–fighting coupe, it’ll be underpinned by Omega. Aside from the issue of the program’s approval, the biggest conundrum around the flagship program is the question of powerplant: Do any of GM’s current mills have the power, refinement, and prestige to do the job, or will the company, say, have to restart development of a 12- or—gasp!—16*-cylinder?
Mo’ ’Mega
Beyond the identified XLS-augmenting sedan, a number of additional Omega derivatives are being discussed. While it’s no surprise that a crossover is at the top of the list, at 1st glance this appears to conflict with Cadillac’s upcoming Lambda crossover. The Lambda-based Cadillac is supposed to complement the Escalade, which is slated to become more of a halo vehicle. And while current Lambda offerings (Chevrolet Traverse, GMC Acadia, and Buick Enclave) are essentially as long as a Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade, they can in no way be considered a viable alternative to the Suburban-based Escalade EXT. Omega could be used to create a near-Suburban-sized high-end Cadillac crossover. This would be an offering with no counterpart in the luxury arena. Farther down the Omega product list is a coupe that would effectively revive the Eldorado—if not in name, certainly in product position. A long-wheelbase version of the launch sedan is all but a certainty for the back-seat-happy Chinese market, and would make sense for the U.S. if Cadillac decides to position that car against the S-class/7-series/A8 trio of Teutonic sedans.
From a manufacturing standpoint, as mentioned, the aim has been to make Omega completely common from a processing standpoint with the Alpha platform. As a result, we wouldn’t be surprised to see Omega vehicles going down the line alongside the ATS and next-generation CTS at General Motors’ Lansing Grand River assembly plant.
Looking at GM’s current brands and the fact that their rear-drive needs can be serviced by the Zeta II platform, the potential for something other than a Cadillac coming off Omega is highly unlikely. In that respect, Omega is the true successor to the Sigma architecture in that it will be a Caddy exclusive.
