Bob Lutz on the Quality of GM vehicles vs. the rest
#81
Teh ?
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 46
Posts: 12,784
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm going to venture a guess that the Expedition and the Navigator share minimal (<10%) plastics on the interior dash area.
On the other hand, I'm guessing that the 'lade and the yukon line shares about 90% of parts on the dash.
Junkster, who heard GM makes a killing with the lades
On the other hand, I'm guessing that the 'lade and the yukon line shares about 90% of parts on the dash.
Junkster, who heard GM makes a killing with the lades
#82
Burn some dust here
I cannot stand Ford/Lincoln/Mercury but I have to give them credit, they do change their appearances where most buyers feel that they arent getting the inferior vehicle.
That being said, Escalade still owns the Navigator
That being said, Escalade still owns the Navigator
![Too Cool](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/toocool.gif)
#83
The hair says it all
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Manhattan, NYC
Age: 38
Posts: 7,566
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by SiGGy
someone compare the lincoln to the caddy... lol, landrover to GM. I expect the rover to look better. The ford to Gm comparison should be good though...
#84
Drifting
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sunshine State
Posts: 2,054
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If I wanted to get one of the GM large SUV's I'd go for the Yukon Denali, has almost the same equipment list and 10HP less then the Escalade but cheaper.
All the Navi needs is more power, but the new 6.2L Hurricane engine will change that.
All the Navi needs is more power, but the new 6.2L Hurricane engine will change that.
#86
Burn some dust here
Originally Posted by Python2121
since when?
#88
Three Wheelin'
whoa, had no idea that the caddy interior SUCKED that bad. Looks like they threw some plood (plastic wood) here and there, and added chrome-esqe circles around the gauages. The Navi wins hands down as far as the interior of both cars is concerned.
#89
Moderator Alumnus
Originally Posted by Python2121
there is no reason for us to have to compare american to american
?
#91
Teh ?
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 46
Posts: 12,784
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Infamous425
uh... GM trucks have been using that dash since the 70's, so yeah, pretty pathetic
The last generation Mustang used a platform designed in the mid 70's...
Tell me about stretching the lifetime of a platform.
Junkster, who thinks GM is just not trying hard enough like Ford
#92
Drifting
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sunshine State
Posts: 2,054
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Junkster
hehe... I'll play along...
The last generation Mustang used a platform designed in the mid 70's...
Tell me about stretching the lifetime of a platform.
Junkster, who thinks GM is just not trying hard enough like Ford
The last generation Mustang used a platform designed in the mid 70's...
Tell me about stretching the lifetime of a platform.
Junkster, who thinks GM is just not trying hard enough like Ford
#93
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by DownUnder
Hopefully it'll work this time.![Wish](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wish.gif)
GMC Yukon:
![](http://img122.exs.cx/img122/1330/yukon7hv.jpg)
GMC Yukon Denali:
![](http://img122.exs.cx/img122/1613/yukondenali5px.jpg)
Cadillac Escalade:
![](http://www.cadillac.com/images/models/escalade/gallery/photoInt3_big.jpg)
Ford Expedition:
![](http://img122.exs.cx/img122/7243/ford2am.jpg)
Lincoln Navigator:
![](http://www.lincoln.com/media/vehicles/navigator/gallery/photos/int_lrg_1.jpg)
![Wish](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wish.gif)
GMC Yukon:
![](http://img122.exs.cx/img122/1330/yukon7hv.jpg)
GMC Yukon Denali:
![](http://img122.exs.cx/img122/1613/yukondenali5px.jpg)
Cadillac Escalade:
![](http://www.cadillac.com/images/models/escalade/gallery/photoInt3_big.jpg)
Ford Expedition:
![](http://img122.exs.cx/img122/7243/ford2am.jpg)
Lincoln Navigator:
![](http://www.lincoln.com/media/vehicles/navigator/gallery/photos/int_lrg_1.jpg)
![Ponder](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ponder.gif)
![Drool](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/drool.gif)
#94
How can you say that with a straight face????
Originally Posted by cob3683
I cannot stand Ford/Lincoln/Mercury but I have to give them credit, they do change their appearances where most buyers feel that they arent getting the inferior vehicle.
That being said, Escalade still owns the Navigator![Too Cool](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/toocool.gif)
That being said, Escalade still owns the Navigator
![Too Cool](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/toocool.gif)
#95
Burn some dust here
Originally Posted by MADCAT
How can you say that with a straight face????
Or that the Escalade owns the Navigator? I guess after seeing them up close and personal for 3 years in my garage that I have formed a conclusion that the Escalade is better. Our Navigator had alot of problems, thats why my dad got rid of it not long after he bought it. Both Escalades have been problem free, and the interior held up better to usage than the Navigator did. Maybe thats why I think the way I do.
![Dunno](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/dunno.gif)
#96
The hair says it all
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Manhattan, NYC
Age: 38
Posts: 7,566
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by SiGGy
? lol, im confused. We're comparing dash/interiors right? Must be some sarcasm in here I'm missing... hehe
?
?
buuutttt i guess that doesn't really apply because only americans make suv's in this style (though i didn't think about that when i said it) because large suvs = studpidest thing ever IMO
#97
The hair says it all
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Manhattan, NYC
Age: 38
Posts: 7,566
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by cob3683
Which part? Giving Ford/Lincoln/mercury credit? Well, they do change designs alot from each cars generation.
Or that the Escalade owns the Navigator? I guess after seeing them up close and personal for 3 years in my garage that I have formed a conclusion that the Escalade is better. Our Navigator had alot of problems, thats why my dad got rid of it not long after he bought it. Both Escalades have been problem free, and the interior held up better to usage than the Navigator did. Maybe thats why I think the way I do.![Dunno](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/dunno.gif)
Or that the Escalade owns the Navigator? I guess after seeing them up close and personal for 3 years in my garage that I have formed a conclusion that the Escalade is better. Our Navigator had alot of problems, thats why my dad got rid of it not long after he bought it. Both Escalades have been problem free, and the interior held up better to usage than the Navigator did. Maybe thats why I think the way I do.
![Dunno](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/dunno.gif)
and be honest, because im actually curious. if the answer is nothing then im not going to start a flame war, im just interested. and dont be like i went off roading that one time 10 years ago.
#98
Burn some dust here
Originally Posted by Python2121
what did you use your suv for that you couldn't have done with, say, a minivan.
and be honest, because im actually curious. if the answer is nothing then im not going to start a flame war, im just interested. and dont be like i went off roading that one time 10 years ago.
and be honest, because im actually curious. if the answer is nothing then im not going to start a flame war, im just interested. and dont be like i went off roading that one time 10 years ago.
You buy a car because you like it. Did I like my AMG before the Tahoe? Hell Yes. Was I going to take it to back to grad school were it could be fucked with by ignorant punks? Hell No. So I bought a car where I can put a bunch of stuff in, is comfortable, and still has sufficient power when driving on the highway.
Can you give me a reason why a 24 year old single guy would want a mini-van???? Maybe if I had kids and it was the wifes car, I could see it. But I dont have any of that.
Yourself, as an 18 yr old, would you want a 4runner or honda odyssey??
#99
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Python2121
what did you use your suv for that you couldn't have done with, say, a minivan.
and be honest, because im actually curious. if the answer is nothing then im not going to start a flame war, im just interested. and dont be like i went off roading that one time 10 years ago.
and be honest, because im actually curious. if the answer is nothing then im not going to start a flame war, im just interested. and dont be like i went off roading that one time 10 years ago.
Maybe I'm biased because I'm a minivan owner. But in our recent minvan/SUV shopping, we kind of narrowed it down to the MDX and 05 Odyssey (when the time comes to trade up). On our pros vs cons list, the Ody came out so far ahead in utility and versatility (given our needs).
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
#100
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by cob3683
Yourself, as an 18 yr old, would you want a 4runner or honda odyssey??
Then again, when I was 18 y/o I couldnt imagine driving anything that had more than 2-doors.
![Ninja](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ninja.gif)
#101
Teh ?
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 46
Posts: 12,784
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To be perfectly honest, those larger SUVs seem like overkill to me.
Suburbans are only good for high occupancy transportation through rough conditions. They suck out on the trails (when I had my pathy, I ran across four Suburbans that got stuck and needed help), drink hella lot of gas, and don't handle that well in any condition. Good for ski trips with five or six people, I'll give it that.
I had a frat bro who brought his suburban to college. For the first two months, he loved having it around. But after driving around in Denver traffic and trying to park the thing downtown, he decided to only drive the thing for ski trips and hitched a ride with us for everything else. The gas prices were insane.
But, this is my subjective view... if you aren't using a SUV for off roading, dealing with foul weather, or traveling with at least two other people for 50% of the vehicle's use, it's a waste of gas and money.
hehe... yea, I would take a 4 runner over an oddy, but why not spend the same 30k or so and get a nice sedan or a sports coupe?
Junkster, who drove an Integra through college
Suburbans are only good for high occupancy transportation through rough conditions. They suck out on the trails (when I had my pathy, I ran across four Suburbans that got stuck and needed help), drink hella lot of gas, and don't handle that well in any condition. Good for ski trips with five or six people, I'll give it that.
I had a frat bro who brought his suburban to college. For the first two months, he loved having it around. But after driving around in Denver traffic and trying to park the thing downtown, he decided to only drive the thing for ski trips and hitched a ride with us for everything else. The gas prices were insane.
But, this is my subjective view... if you aren't using a SUV for off roading, dealing with foul weather, or traveling with at least two other people for 50% of the vehicle's use, it's a waste of gas and money.
hehe... yea, I would take a 4 runner over an oddy, but why not spend the same 30k or so and get a nice sedan or a sports coupe?
Junkster, who drove an Integra through college
#102
Teh ?
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 46
Posts: 12,784
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
speaking of overkill...
I was driving behind a Hummer the other day, and I couldn't see squat in front of it, unless I snuck a peak under the chassis to see if there was a car ahead.
That thing, IMO, is useless... can't hit trails, drinks gas because it's underpowered and overweight, and disturbs other drivers.
Junkster, who hates Denver idiots who drive SUVs
I was driving behind a Hummer the other day, and I couldn't see squat in front of it, unless I snuck a peak under the chassis to see if there was a car ahead.
That thing, IMO, is useless... can't hit trails, drinks gas because it's underpowered and overweight, and disturbs other drivers.
Junkster, who hates Denver idiots who drive SUVs
#103
Burn some dust here
Originally Posted by Junkster
hehe... yea, I would take a 4 runner over an oddy, but why not spend the same 30k or so and get a nice sedan or a sports coupe?
For me, the SUV is more practical because I take my jetski up to Lake Martin down here alot.
#104
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Junkster
speaking of overkill...
I was driving behind a Hummer the other day, and I couldn't see squat in front of it, unless I snuck a peak under the chassis to see if there was a car ahead.
That thing, IMO, is useless... can't hit trails, drinks gas because it's underpowered and overweight, and disturbs other drivers.
Junkster, who hates Denver idiots who drive SUVs
I was driving behind a Hummer the other day, and I couldn't see squat in front of it, unless I snuck a peak under the chassis to see if there was a car ahead.
That thing, IMO, is useless... can't hit trails, drinks gas because it's underpowered and overweight, and disturbs other drivers.
Junkster, who hates Denver idiots who drive SUVs
![Doh](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/doh.gif)
Anywhoo, SUVs are more about aesthetic appeal than actual usefulness. And given how quickly I take turns, I'd be a rollover statistic in no-time with an SUV (exc. Murano/FX) -- no biggie with a minivan.
#105
TQ > MPG
Yeah the Escalade interior is pretty plain compared to other makes, but which of the two (NAVI & Sclade) will last longer? GM knows how to make a smallblock, that is known already. I see mid 80's Suburban's out driving around, how many mid 80's Bronco's do you see?
The new F150 has taken the next step in terms of refinement, looks, and interior design. BUT IMO if I was gonna buy a work truck I'd get a GM.
BTW who gives a fuck about trucks anyways? Lutz shpuld be more concerned with them not having an affordable sports car on the market for the past 3 years, and the Malibu/G6/LaCrosse/GTO have all not been well receieved by car mags nor the general public.
Honestly, I think the majority of cars suck right now. BMW has gone Bangle, Benz's are overpriced & not as reliable as they once were, Ford has the F150 & Mustang - both of which will sell millions but not break any ground, Buick has nothing, & Honda/Toyota are so damn boring it boggles the mind. I'm glad I'm not having to car shop right now, cuz I'd prob just rock a 98 Civic and wait for something cool to come out. I guess at least Subaru has come into a great position, I'd def buy a car from them.
The new F150 has taken the next step in terms of refinement, looks, and interior design. BUT IMO if I was gonna buy a work truck I'd get a GM.
BTW who gives a fuck about trucks anyways? Lutz shpuld be more concerned with them not having an affordable sports car on the market for the past 3 years, and the Malibu/G6/LaCrosse/GTO have all not been well receieved by car mags nor the general public.
Honestly, I think the majority of cars suck right now. BMW has gone Bangle, Benz's are overpriced & not as reliable as they once were, Ford has the F150 & Mustang - both of which will sell millions but not break any ground, Buick has nothing, & Honda/Toyota are so damn boring it boggles the mind. I'm glad I'm not having to car shop right now, cuz I'd prob just rock a 98 Civic and wait for something cool to come out. I guess at least Subaru has come into a great position, I'd def buy a car from them.
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#106
Burn some dust here
Originally Posted by F23A4
I've never seen any more H2s than I have in South Beach (Miami), a place where there's probably the LEAST need for a heavy duty SUV.
![Doh](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/doh.gif)
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
"My big ass black Hummer can run over your car, but if I hit a pothole my joy ride is over."
#107
Teh ?
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 46
Posts: 12,784
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by cob3683
Oh I agree...but if you're comparing an SUV to a Mini-van ONLY and have to go with either one....its not really a choice IMO.
For me, the SUV is more practical because I take my jetski up to Lake Martin down here alot.
For me, the SUV is more practical because I take my jetski up to Lake Martin down here alot.
I think it's also a conservationist view in terms of people in Colorado. Most SUV drivers (I'm talking 80%) never fully use their vehicles for what they are intended to do. And they also think that 4WD and being an SUV means you can drive as fast as you want in any weather...
That's why I don't feel bad when some idiot dies in a rollover... hey, you're buying the second largest investment in your life (first being house), you should do some research and think it through, you know?
Last year, we were at Vail in my pathy when we came across this family that was stuck in the side of the road in their Disco. I got out and thought "It's not that bad, I wonder why they're stuck". They slid off the road and was stuck in the ditch. Me and my friends got out and thought the same thing. I asked the dude if he tried putting it in low and rocking it out, and he says "Low? You mean like first gear? This is an automatic." I just shook my head, got into the car, threw it on low, and rocked it out.
I swear, it's scary how bad people don't know their own cars.
Junkster, who used to laugh at SUVs on the side of the road while passing them in his Integra during college
#108
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Junkster
Long as you don't complain about the gas prices, I'm fine with whatever you drive...
I think it's also a conservationist view in terms of people in Colorado. Most SUV drivers (I'm talking 80%) never fully use their vehicles for what they are intended to do. And they also think that 4WD and being an SUV means you can drive as fast as you want in any weather...
That's why I don't feel bad when some idiot dies in a rollover... hey, you're buying the second largest investment in your life (first being house), you should do some research and think it through, you know?
Last year, we were at Vail in my pathy when we came across this family that was stuck in the side of the road in their Disco. I got out and thought "It's not that bad, I wonder why they're stuck". They slid off the road and was stuck in the ditch. Me and my friends got out and thought the same thing. I asked the dude if he tried putting it in low and rocking it out, and he says "Low? You mean like first gear? This is an automatic." I just shook my head, got into the car, threw it on low, and rocked it out.
I swear, it's scary how bad people don't know their own cars.
Junkster, who used to laugh at SUVs on the side of the road while passing them in his Integra during college
I think it's also a conservationist view in terms of people in Colorado. Most SUV drivers (I'm talking 80%) never fully use their vehicles for what they are intended to do. And they also think that 4WD and being an SUV means you can drive as fast as you want in any weather...
That's why I don't feel bad when some idiot dies in a rollover... hey, you're buying the second largest investment in your life (first being house), you should do some research and think it through, you know?
Last year, we were at Vail in my pathy when we came across this family that was stuck in the side of the road in their Disco. I got out and thought "It's not that bad, I wonder why they're stuck". They slid off the road and was stuck in the ditch. Me and my friends got out and thought the same thing. I asked the dude if he tried putting it in low and rocking it out, and he says "Low? You mean like first gear? This is an automatic." I just shook my head, got into the car, threw it on low, and rocked it out.
I swear, it's scary how bad people don't know their own cars.
Junkster, who used to laugh at SUVs on the side of the road while passing them in his Integra during college
Sidenote: As it snowed last night and created a commuter nightmare this morning, the TV news showed several accidents and each one broadcasted showed SUV involvement.
![Ponder](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ponder.gif)
#109
Teh ?
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 46
Posts: 12,784
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by F23A4
I still feel bad when an SUV driver dies in a rollover but I am left to wonder how much they were to blame for their own demise.
Sidenote: As it snowed last night and created a commuter nightmare this morning, the TV news showed several accidents and each one broadcasted showed SUV involvement.![Ponder](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ponder.gif)
Sidenote: As it snowed last night and created a commuter nightmare this morning, the TV news showed several accidents and each one broadcasted showed SUV involvement.
![Ponder](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ponder.gif)
That's why I'm a big fan of the crossovers... these options are much better suited for the regular drivers on the road.
Junkster, who hates Texans that drive burbs in Colorado
#110
Drifting
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sunshine State
Posts: 2,054
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by jtkz13
Yeah the Escalade interior is pretty plain compared to other makes, but which of the two (NAVI & Sclade) will last longer? GM knows how to make a smallblock, that is known already. I see mid 80's Suburban's out driving around, how many mid 80's Bronco's do you see?
The new F150 has taken the next step in terms of refinement, looks, and interior design. BUT IMO if I was gonna buy a work truck I'd get a GM.
The new F150 has taken the next step in terms of refinement, looks, and interior design. BUT IMO if I was gonna buy a work truck I'd get a GM.
#113
Originally Posted by MADCAT
agreed...and why would any compare a GM truck to a LEXUS SUV? Thats like comparing your big house to Buckingham Palace.
another werd
#114
Originally Posted by cob3683
Probably because the LX470 and Escalade and Navigator are direct competitors :dunno
who the fuck goes to GM to check out a car that is cheaper, and has AMAZING deals in terms of finance/lease rates and 0% etc....to a 20k more lexus that probably comes with 8% financing at best,.
#116
Originally Posted by amirsafdari
i doubt the current LX470 owners even bothered to check out a GM.
who the fuck goes to GM to check out a car that is cheaper, and has AMAZING deals in terms of finance/lease rates and 0% etc....to a 20k more lexus that probably comes with 8% financing at best,.
who the fuck goes to GM to check out a car that is cheaper, and has AMAZING deals in terms of finance/lease rates and 0% etc....to a 20k more lexus that probably comes with 8% financing at best,.
aint all that LUXURIOUS.
#117
Originally Posted by heyitsme
Actually, If people bothered to check it out, they would find it that Lexus
aint all that LUXURIOUS.
aint all that LUXURIOUS.
wake up.
Lexus = #1 in subtle luxury and quality.
#118
fap fap fap
Originally Posted by heyitsme
Actually, If people bothered to check it out, they would find it that Lexus
aint all that LUXURIOUS.
aint all that LUXURIOUS.
compared to GM "luxury" Lexus is very luxurious
#119
go like hell
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Anna,OH(home of the honda/acura motors)
Age: 42
Posts: 5,154
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by Python2121
lutz is rigth about reliability in that respect, maybe preformance (ill take a cobalt over a corolla in terms of preformance), but quality of parts is terrible (except on caddy)
has anyone sat on the leather in the grand prix? its so slick you just slide around, and theres no quality
sure crysler is more reliable then mercedes, but i swear some of them have the quality parts comprable to a fisher price toy
has anyone sat on the leather in the grand prix? its so slick you just slide around, and theres no quality
sure crysler is more reliable then mercedes, but i swear some of them have the quality parts comprable to a fisher price toy
not that long ago i read an article about the an article about diamlar chrysler big shot(he's german so i'm not gonna attempt to spell his name). he said by 2007 their quality will compare to Toyota and Honda's. I'm thinking you better get new suppliers and better engineers in a hurry. personally i think it's a BS statement.
#120
Race Director
Originally Posted by Water-S
the thing is everyone raveing over the CTS-V if i had the money honestly i'd take a C55 AMG over the CTS-V for the simple reason Caddy owned by GM and GM has a LONG WAY to come on improving quality.
not that long ago i read an article about the an article about diamlar chrysler big shot(he's german so i'm not gonna attempt to spell his name). he said by 2007 their quality will compare to Toyota and Honda's. I'm thinking you better get new suppliers and better engineers in a hurry. personally i think it's a BS statement.
not that long ago i read an article about the an article about diamlar chrysler big shot(he's german so i'm not gonna attempt to spell his name). he said by 2007 their quality will compare to Toyota and Honda's. I'm thinking you better get new suppliers and better engineers in a hurry. personally i think it's a BS statement.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
navtool.com
5G TLX Audio, Bluetooth, Electronics & Navigation
31
11-16-2015 08:30 PM
navtool.com
1G RDX Audio, Bluetooth, Electronics & Navigation
1
09-25-2015 05:15 PM