Bob Lutz on the Quality of GM vehicles vs. the rest
#41
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Originally Posted by gavriil
What does interior design have to do with quality and reliability which is what Lutz is discussing here?
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Originally Posted by F23A4
![what](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/what.gif)
![Damn](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/damn.gif)
Sidebar:
G6 - $26,290 MSRP (w/ IB2, CF5 & UC6 pkgs)
AV6 EX - $27,365 MSRP (non-Navi)
...close enough to justify the question.
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Originally Posted by Maximized
I find that many people make blanket statements and have a prejudice towards American cars. .
What Carlos Ghosn has said is that a few years from now, GM and Ford cars will be the most qualitative and durable on the planet and Japanese cars will be the most exciting (as far as exterior design).
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Originally Posted by F23A4
![what](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/what.gif)
![Damn](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/damn.gif)
Sidebar:
G6 - $26,290 MSRP (w/ IB2, CF5 & UC6 pkgs)
AV6 EX - $27,365 MSRP (non-Navi)
...close enough to justify the question.
![Yawn](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/yawn.gif)
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#45
I feel the need...
Originally Posted by gavriil
Did I misunderstand your statement?
Did I misunderstand your statement?
Despite being number one in total sales, GM has been steadily losing market share for quite a while. This is a pretty elementary business concept, and one that doesn't bode well for GM.
http://www.jsonline.com/wheels/peak/...re02030101.asp
#46
Originally Posted by Maximized
I will be laughing when in another 5 years, these type of people will have changed their mind and will be buying an American automobile.
Really? This sounds just like Little Orphan Annie forever singing "Tomorrow, Tomorrow...."
#47
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Originally Posted by RWalker2
The question is, why would I buy a Malibu or G6 instead of an Accord/Camry even if they are $5000 less
Honestly, GM needs to work on the desirability of their products (besides the fact that quality and reliability over the long term (greater than a year :P) are subpar...).
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#48
Originally Posted by gavriil
I am under the impression that a comparably equipped G6 is less expensive than a Camry or Accord. Am I wrong?
#49
Originally Posted by gavriil
Do does me and apparently Lutz.
What Carlos Ghosn has said is that a few years from now, GM and Ford cars will be the most qualitative and durable on the planet and Japanese cars will be the most exciting (as far as exterior design).
What Carlos Ghosn has said is that a few years from now, GM and Ford cars will be the most qualitative and durable on the planet and Japanese cars will be the most exciting (as far as exterior design).
#50
I feel the need...
I actually like the exterior styling of the G6, I think it's probably one of the nicest designs they've done recently.
However after sitting in one, and going for a test drive - you're quickly reminded of how far GM has to improve, to win back the buyers who've abandoned them in the past.
However after sitting in one, and going for a test drive - you're quickly reminded of how far GM has to improve, to win back the buyers who've abandoned them in the past.
#51
Burn some dust here
Originally Posted by gavriil
GM and Ford cars will be the most qualitative and durable on the planet and Japanese cars will be the most exciting (as far as exterior design).
1) Ford is getting better but still behind GM
2) Japanese cars HAVE to become more exciting. Lexus is too bland. Acura has some great designs and interior quality (TL, TSX) but needs to be sportier to compete with the class leaders. Infiniti/Nissan need to overhaul the interiors. G35 interior quality is a joke compared to the 330i.
Having owned 6 cars between Japan, Germany, and U.S., heres how I look at it.
Durability - U.S. Owned 2 tahoes and a Sonoma and never gave me a problem. CL-s had minor problems. 328is was terrible. I didn't have the C32 long enough to make any claims. Edge to U.S.
Fit and finish - Germany>Japan>U.S.
Pricing - Japan is tops because you get alot for the money. U.S. is good but not up to Japans level. Germany is last.
Overall - I might give BMW another try when the new M3 comes out but if it doesnt, MB will be the way I go for all other vehicles other than SUV's. The best customer service anywhere in my book, performance, and quality. The downside is that they are expensive.
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Originally Posted by cob3683
but if it doesnt, MB will be the way I go for all other vehicles other than SUV's. The best customer service anywhere in my book, performance, and quality. The downside is that they are expensive.
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Originally Posted by PistonFan
Yes you did.
Despite being number one in total sales, GM has been steadily losing market share for quite a while. This is a pretty elementary business concept, and one that doesn't bode well for GM.
http://www.jsonline.com/wheels/peak/...re02030101.asp
Despite being number one in total sales, GM has been steadily losing market share for quite a while. This is a pretty elementary business concept, and one that doesn't bode well for GM.
http://www.jsonline.com/wheels/peak/...re02030101.asp
Dude, we all know GM has been losing share for the past...a billion years. What you said is that GM cars are not bought "in droves". And what I answered you was that yes they are. Just Chevrolet sells more cars around the world than anyone else. What does share have to do with volume? "Buying them in droves" is related to volume, not share.
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Originally Posted by kansaiwalker1
Really? This sounds just like Little Orphan Annie forever singing "Tomorrow, Tomorrow...."
During the past 20 years GM/Ford did not focus on cars, but on trucks (and that includes SUVs). Only in the past 3 years that has changed to equally emphasizing both. For such a huge strategy change to work in this industry, it needs at least a couple of generations to show results (negative or positive). So five to seven years from now, we'll know if the strategy shift shown by GM and Ford starting around 2001 will bring results.
I say it will.
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Originally Posted by kansaiwalker1
Yes. Especially if you factor in the time lost from all the future recalls and repairs needed to keep a substandard product like the G6 running.
SE V6 4dr Sedan (3.3L 6cyl 5A)
MSRP = $23,775
2005 Pontiac G6
GT 4dr Sedan (3.5L 6cyl 4A)
MSRP = $23,300
And that's the top of the line G6 like I picked the top of the line Camry. But, you can still have a 3.5L base G6 for 21K which will make the Camry look like a luxury vehicle after options.
#57
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i cannot believe that people actually like the caddy's interior. All the wood trim is fake like woah, the dashboard is so plasticy, the cd changer sucks (sterio is good though, but thats not interior), i cant stand the escalade interior. How can it possibly compare the range rover (more $$ but even so!?).
![](http://www.cadillac.com/images/models/escalade/gallery/photoInt3_med.jpg)
![](http://www.landroverusa.com/us/en/Vehicles/Range_Rover/Photo%20Gallery%20And%20Media/Photos_D3F9D484-7E76-4124-BA7A-3731253410AE_199x599.jpg)
#58
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look at the way the cd changer in teh escalade doesn't look like it fits at all, and right above it is that great looking compartment
look at the entire dash layout, and how the only difference is the trim has been changed to wood, it looks like all the parts are just "upscale part bin" part bin parts
look at the entire dash layout, and how the only difference is the trim has been changed to wood, it looks like all the parts are just "upscale part bin" part bin parts
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#59
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Originally Posted by Python2121
i cannot believe that people actually like the caddy's interior. All the wood trim is fake like woah, the dashboard is so plasticy, the cd changer sucks (sterio is good though, but thats not interior), i cant stand the escalade interior. How can it possibly compare the range rover (more $$ but even so!?).
![](http://www.landroverusa.com/us/en/Vehicles/Range_Rover/Photo%20Gallery%20And%20Media/Photos_D3F9D484-7E76-4124-BA7A-3731253410AE_199x599.jpg)
![](http://www.cadillac.com/images/models/escalade/gallery/photoInt3_med.jpg)
![](http://www.landroverusa.com/us/en/Vehicles/Range_Rover/Photo%20Gallery%20And%20Media/Photos_D3F9D484-7E76-4124-BA7A-3731253410AE_199x599.jpg)
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#60
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Originally Posted by PistonFan
Does the G6 have side airbags/side curtains/stability control???
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You went from the "selling in droves" argument to the pricing argument realy quick
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#61
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Originally Posted by PistonFan
Does the G6 have side airbags/side curtains/stability control???
2005 Toyota Camry
SE V6 4dr Sedan (3.3L 6cyl 5A)
MSRP = $23,775
2005 Pontiac G6
GT 4dr Sedan (3.5L 6cyl 4A)
MSRP = $23,300
Below, first comes Camry, second comes G6
Rust 5 yr. / Unlimited mi. 6 yr. / 100000 mi.
One-Touch Power Windows 1 - - - - 2
Adjustable Pedals Optional Standard
Steering Adjustment tilt-adjustable - - tilt and telescopic
Seatback Storage Not Available Standard
Cargo Nets Optional Standard
Cargo Area Tie Downs Not Available Standard
Vanity Mirrors dual vanity mirrors dual illuminated vanity mirrors
Brakes - Rear disc ventilated disc
Traction Control Optional Standard
De-powered Air Bags Standard Standard
Head Air Bag front and rear - Optional front and rear - Optional
Side Air Bag dual front - Optional dual front - Optional
Headlight Dusk Sensor Not Available Standard
Premium Brand Speakers Not Available Monsoon
Total Number of Speakers 6 - - 8
Satellite Communications System Not Available OnStar - Optional
City and Highway gas consumption is identical for both cars
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#63
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Originally Posted by cob3683
Dude, the Range Rover is $20,000 MORE. Why don't we compare a 4Runner to a Cayenne Turbo? ![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
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The escalade interior is really hideous...
#64
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Originally Posted by RWalker2
That comparison would be closer than the current one
The escalade interior is really hideous...
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The escalade interior is really hideous...
#66
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Originally Posted by cob3683
![what](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/what.gif)
![](https://images.autotrader.com/images/2005/2/13/178/066/1273043084.178066331.IM1.03.565x421_A.562x421.jpg)
![](http://www.cadillac.com/images/models/escalade/gallery/photoInt3_med.jpg)
#69
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Originally Posted by Junkster
I heard Caddie just showed 700 celebrities the next (2007) 'Lade for marketing reaction...
Junkster, who would roll a Navigator before a 'Lade
Junkster, who would roll a Navigator before a 'Lade
#70
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Originally Posted by F23A4
Really? Any idea what the general reactions were?
Good marketing idea. Celebs are one of the best forms of starting/rating/gauging a trendy product.
Junkster, who hopes Caddie makes it a bit more distiguishable from it's GM brothers
#71
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someone compare the lincoln to the caddy... lol, landrover to GM. I expect the rover to look better. The ford to Gm comparison should be good though...
Lets see a side by side interior of navigator to escalade. Although I do find all the components to be "parts bin" in the pic of the escalade. Minus the gauge cluster, which really look good actually. But the radio/climate control/etc.. all looks parts bin.
On a side note, the 95 dash does look like the new one. Same layout, some wood trim and they relocated the radio for the navi screen. Otherwise it's just updated. Definetly not re-designed...
Lets see a side by side interior of navigator to escalade. Although I do find all the components to be "parts bin" in the pic of the escalade. Minus the gauge cluster, which really look good actually. But the radio/climate control/etc.. all looks parts bin.
On a side note, the 95 dash does look like the new one. Same layout, some wood trim and they relocated the radio for the navi screen. Otherwise it's just updated. Definetly not re-designed...
#72
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Originally Posted by SiGGy
On a side note, the 95 dash does look like the new one. Same layout, some wood trim and they relocated the radio for the navi screen. Otherwise it's just updated. Definetly not re-designed...
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#73
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Originally Posted by SiGGy
someone compare the lincoln to the caddy... lol, landrover to GM. I expect the rover to look better. The ford to Gm comparison should be good though...
Lets see a side by side interior of navigator to escalade. Although I do find all the components to be "parts bin" in the pic of the escalade. Minus the gauge cluster, which really look good actually. But the radio/climate control/etc.. all looks parts bin.
On a side note, the 95 dash does look like the new one. Same layout, some wood trim and they relocated the radio for the navi screen. Otherwise it's just updated. Definetly not re-designed...
Lets see a side by side interior of navigator to escalade. Although I do find all the components to be "parts bin" in the pic of the escalade. Minus the gauge cluster, which really look good actually. But the radio/climate control/etc.. all looks parts bin.
On a side note, the 95 dash does look like the new one. Same layout, some wood trim and they relocated the radio for the navi screen. Otherwise it's just updated. Definetly not re-designed...
![](http://www.cadillac.com/images/models/escalade/gallery/photoInt3_big.jpg)
![](http://www.lincoln.com/media/vehicles/navigator/gallery/photos/int_lrg_1.jpg)
#74
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now, can we get the Escalade pic next to a Yukon/suburban interior, and the Navigator pic next to the Expedition?
I HATE, LOATH how GM uses the same plastics for everything in their lineup, all the way up to a caddilac.
Junkster, who thinks Ford at least tries to distinguish their product qualities
I HATE, LOATH how GM uses the same plastics for everything in their lineup, all the way up to a caddilac.
Junkster, who thinks Ford at least tries to distinguish their product qualities
#75
Trecel will beat that about 7 years...there's one old very one my my block...that thing won't break.
.....I'll take the built like a tank, made to last 2 decades Camry thank you.
Originally Posted by F23A4
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#76
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Originally Posted by Junkster
now, can we get the Escalade pic next to a Yukon/suburban interior, and the Navigator pic next to the Expedition?
I HATE, LOATH how GM uses the same plastics for everything in their lineup, all the way up to a caddilac.
Junkster, who thinks Ford at least tries to distinguish their product qualities
I HATE, LOATH how GM uses the same plastics for everything in their lineup, all the way up to a caddilac.
Junkster, who thinks Ford at least tries to distinguish their product qualities
GMC Yukon:
![](http://www.glowfoto.com/images/2005/02/28-1556335821L.jpg)
GMC Yukon Denali:
![](http://www.glowfoto.com/images/2005/02/28-1556317749L.jpg)
Cadillac Escalade:
![](http://www.cadillac.com/images/models/escalade/gallery/photoInt3_big.jpg)
Ford Expedition:
![](http://www.glowfoto.com/images/2005/02/28-1556366297L.jpg)
Lincoln Navigator:
![](http://www.lincoln.com/media/vehicles/navigator/gallery/photos/int_lrg_1.jpg)