BMW: 3-Series News
03-31-2005, 10:56 PM
#601
Drifting
i dont know.. the dual exhausts and wide fenders over the wheels does make it look alittle beefed up. but then again, these are spy shots. they'll probably add the quad pipes and a body kit that pre-M3's had, once the real production version comes out. for now i cant really say i like how the car looks.. although i do like the rims.. kinda. the shape doesnt look bad either.
04-01-2005, 08:36 AM
#602
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Originally Posted by Shawn S
If they still intend for it to be a SLUSH-BOX SMG only and charge 60-Thousand plus for one, I’ll take a C6 Vette over the Bimmer any day of the week.
And have 15-Grand left over for gas and insurance.
They really need to watch the cost on this thing. If they get too crazy like they did with the 6-Series, it will cost as much as a Z06.
And have 15-Grand left over for gas and insurance.
They really need to watch the cost on this thing. If they get too crazy like they did with the 6-Series, it will cost as much as a Z06.
The SMG is not a "slushbox" it's an actual MANUAL transmission, just the computer controlls the clutch and the shifter. Reason traditional automatic transmissions are called slush boxes is because they are fluid driven (hydraulic). So you can't call a computer controlled manual a slushbox.
When you buy a M3 SMG or Manual you get the same exact transmission. Only difference is one has a computer module controlling it, and other has stick shift...
Dunno maybe you just misused the "slushbox" terminology... either way using "slushbox" to describe a SMG is just wrong...
04-01-2005, 08:46 AM
#603
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Originally Posted by SiGGy
The SMG is not a "slushbox" it's an actual MANUAL transmission, just the computer controlls the clutch and the shifter. Reason traditional automatic transmissions are called slush boxes is because they are fluid driven (hydraulic). So you can't call a computer controlled manual a slushbox.
When you buy a M3 SMG or Manual you get the same exact transmission. Only difference is one has a computer module controlling it, and other has stick shift...
Dunno maybe you just misused the "slushbox" terminology... either way using "slushbox" to describe a SMG is just wrong...
When you buy a M3 SMG or Manual you get the same exact transmission. Only difference is one has a computer module controlling it, and other has stick shift...
Dunno maybe you just misused the "slushbox" terminology... either way using "slushbox" to describe a SMG is just wrong...
I saw the schematics for M3's manual & SMG transmissions and can attest to that. BMW is gonna offer a manual though, they're not stupid.
04-01-2005, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy
The SMG is not a "slushbox" it's an actual MANUAL transmission, just the computer controlls the clutch and the shifter. Reason traditional automatic transmissions are called slush boxes is because they are fluid driven (hydraulic). So you can't call a computer controlled manual a slushbox.
When you buy a M3 SMG or Manual you get the same exact transmission. Only difference is one has a computer module controlling it, and other has stick shift...
Dunno maybe you just misused the "slushbox" terminology... either way using "slushbox" to describe a SMG is just wrong...
When you buy a M3 SMG or Manual you get the same exact transmission. Only difference is one has a computer module controlling it, and other has stick shift...
Dunno maybe you just misused the "slushbox" terminology... either way using "slushbox" to describe a SMG is just wrong...
I’ve followed the development of the latest SMG Tranny’s and I know how they work.
I’m even aware that they CAN’T easily be redesigned into a manual shift because the gear placement would make for an awkward gate.
I’ve driven the current SMG M3 and the SMG Z4 or whatever that little 2-seater convertible is.
It’s fun to play with and way better then the Acura “sport-shift”, but it’s still a slush-box in my mind.
No matter how many computers are controlling the darn thing it’s still not gonna be as enjoyable to drive as something with three pedals and a shifter.
Faster 0-60 yea
Faster 1/4 mile yea
Repeatable launches yea
Fun factor…. FAWK NO
04-01-2005, 03:43 PM
#605
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Originally Posted by Shawn S
....No matter how many computers are controlling the darn thing it’s still not gonna be as enjoyable to drive as something with three pedals and a shifter.
Faster 0-60 yea
Faster 1/4 mile yea
Repeatable launches yea
Fun factor…. FAWK NO
Faster 0-60 yea
Faster 1/4 mile yea
Repeatable launches yea
Fun factor…. FAWK NO
04-01-2005, 03:52 PM
#606
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Originally Posted by Shawn S
Faster 0-60 yea
Faster 1/4 mile yea
Repeatable launches yea
Fun factor…. FAWK NO
Faster 1/4 mile yea
Repeatable launches yea
Fun factor…. FAWK NO
04-01-2005, 08:00 PM
#608
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Originally Posted by gavriil
SMG equipped BMW cars are not quicker in acceleration than stick shift cars.
yeah they are when you factor in driver error. And it'd be hard to shift as fast as the SMG does. (near impossible for 95% of drivers on the road)
Which adds up to faster 1/4 mile times, and 0-60.
While I don't disagree a professional driver in a manual can equal that of a SMG. (if not beat it from launching better)
04-01-2005, 08:02 PM
#609
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Originally Posted by Shawn S
Yes, I know what you’re saying.
I’ve followed the development of the latest SMG Tranny’s and I know how they work.
I’m even aware that they CAN’T easily be redesigned into a manual shift because the gear placement would make for an awkward gate.
I’ve driven the current SMG M3 and the SMG Z4 or whatever that little 2-seater convertible is.
It’s fun to play with and way better then the Acura “sport-shift”, but it’s still a slush-box in my mind.
No matter how many computers are controlling the darn thing it’s still not gonna be as enjoyable to drive as something with three pedals and a shifter.
Faster 0-60 yea
Faster 1/4 mile yea
Repeatable launches yea
Fun factor…. FAWK NO
I’ve followed the development of the latest SMG Tranny’s and I know how they work.
I’m even aware that they CAN’T easily be redesigned into a manual shift because the gear placement would make for an awkward gate.
I’ve driven the current SMG M3 and the SMG Z4 or whatever that little 2-seater convertible is.
It’s fun to play with and way better then the Acura “sport-shift”, but it’s still a slush-box in my mind.
No matter how many computers are controlling the darn thing it’s still not gonna be as enjoyable to drive as something with three pedals and a shifter.
Faster 0-60 yea
Faster 1/4 mile yea
Repeatable launches yea
Fun factor…. FAWK NO
The term "slushbox" comes from hydraulic/fluid transmissions. Why I was like :wtf: over when I saw you used it describing a SMG.
The new M5 comes in SMG or manual. So I'd expect the M3 too.
04-02-2005, 02:54 PM
#610
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Originally Posted by SiGGy
yeah they are when you factor in driver error. And it'd be hard to shift as fast as the SMG does. (near impossible for 95% of drivers on the road)
Which adds up to faster 1/4 mile times, and 0-60.
While I don't disagree a professional driver in a manual can equal that of a SMG. (if not beat it from launching better)
Which adds up to faster 1/4 mile times, and 0-60.
While I don't disagree a professional driver in a manual can equal that of a SMG. (if not beat it from launching better)
Every time mags tested stick BMWs vs SMG ones, the stick-equipped cars were quicker.
04-18-2005, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Beltfed
Yah........I think it looks better than the sedan actually.
Has the design-auto-world come upside down?
I know what you mean though. SWs start looking real attractive since Dodge's latest attempt at it.
See the lesson here is that a vehicle can look very attractive no matter which category it belongs to. It's just a matter of priority and execution on the manufacturer's side.
04-18-2005, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
A station wagon looking better than a sedan? .
.I think the E90 Wagon's taillights look MUCH better than the sedans. Just works with the wagon's rear.
04-18-2005, 10:44 PM
#619
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Originally Posted by MSZ
I still hate the taillights.
I think they should have used an adaptation of the tail lights from the X3, they look a lot more edgy and still have the BMW "L" shape.
04-24-2005, 11:13 AM
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The Turbo is back - - Source: Autocar
The BMW M3 looks headed for some stiff in-house rivalry in the form of a secret twin-turbocharged 3.0-litre six-cylinder version of the 3-series that’s little more than a year away from introduction. The new car, depicted here in computer-generated images based on recent scoop photographs, will be badged 335i according to Autocar sources.
The future 3-series range-topper will be ready for launch in left-hand-drive European markets by mid-2006, with right-hand-drive UK sales six months later. To be offered in coupé, saloon and estate guises, the 335i should bridge the gap that will be created in BMW’s range as the next M3 moves upmarket when it arrives in 2007 with 4.0-litre V8 power and a price to match.
The 3.0-litre straight six (right) is said to produce around 330bhp – up 72bhp on the new 330i and just 13bhp shy of today’s 3.2-litre M3. The new powerplant takes a leaf out of BMW’s latest diesel engine development by employing two turbochargers – one operating at lower engine speeds to boost low-end torque with the other called upon to extend power at the top end.
‘It’s going to take turbocharging to a whole new level,’ said a supplier privy to the new engine’s performance claims. Nothing’s official, but a 0-60mph time of around 6.0sec appears to be on the cards with top speed limited to 155mph. By coupling turbocharging with Vanos variable valve timing and Valvetronic, the new engine is said to be very economical and Euro4 emission compatible.
It’s possible that BMW is planning to provide the 335i with a new double-clutch gearbox similar to Volkswagen’s acclaimed DSG transmission. Tipped to replace the sequential manual unit used on the old 3-series, its development is cloaked in secrecy with a launch date still undetermined.
The new BMW won’t be the only model to carry the 335 name. Also under development is a new 3-series model fitted with the same twin turbocharged 3.0-litre in-line six-cylinder diesel that’s used in the 535d.
The BMW M3 looks headed for some stiff in-house rivalry in the form of a secret twin-turbocharged 3.0-litre six-cylinder version of the 3-series that’s little more than a year away from introduction. The new car, depicted here in computer-generated images based on recent scoop photographs, will be badged 335i according to Autocar sources.
The future 3-series range-topper will be ready for launch in left-hand-drive European markets by mid-2006, with right-hand-drive UK sales six months later. To be offered in coupé, saloon and estate guises, the 335i should bridge the gap that will be created in BMW’s range as the next M3 moves upmarket when it arrives in 2007 with 4.0-litre V8 power and a price to match.
The 3.0-litre straight six (right) is said to produce around 330bhp – up 72bhp on the new 330i and just 13bhp shy of today’s 3.2-litre M3. The new powerplant takes a leaf out of BMW’s latest diesel engine development by employing two turbochargers – one operating at lower engine speeds to boost low-end torque with the other called upon to extend power at the top end.
‘It’s going to take turbocharging to a whole new level,’ said a supplier privy to the new engine’s performance claims. Nothing’s official, but a 0-60mph time of around 6.0sec appears to be on the cards with top speed limited to 155mph. By coupling turbocharging with Vanos variable valve timing and Valvetronic, the new engine is said to be very economical and Euro4 emission compatible.
It’s possible that BMW is planning to provide the 335i with a new double-clutch gearbox similar to Volkswagen’s acclaimed DSG transmission. Tipped to replace the sequential manual unit used on the old 3-series, its development is cloaked in secrecy with a launch date still undetermined.
The new BMW won’t be the only model to carry the 335 name. Also under development is a new 3-series model fitted with the same twin turbocharged 3.0-litre in-line six-cylinder diesel that’s used in the 535d.
04-24-2005, 11:14 AM
#621
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This information was rumored a while back but for a 380HP unit. The above info makes a lot more sense because this sounds like the answer from BMW to the 3.5L engine from Lexus that will be used in the IS and even the rumored 4.1L engine in the Infiniti cars (rumored at 330PS).
BTW I am sure the car will be way faster than 6 seconds for the 60mph run.
BTW I am sure the car will be way faster than 6 seconds for the 60mph run.
04-24-2005, 11:21 AM
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It’s possible that BMW is planning to provide the 335i with a new double-clutch gearbox similar to Volkswagen’s acclaimed DSG transmission. Tipped to replace the sequential manual unit used on the old 3-series, its development is cloaked in secrecy with a launch date still undetermined.
If the above is true, the first thing BMW has done is ADMIT THEIR SMG TRANNY TECH IS INFERIOR TO VW's.
So, GM. First admit you suck! Whatever that means and to whatever extend you do. Then ask yourself: "do I have an answer to this tech coming from the competition soon enough?" If the answer is "no", then you sit and develop the same technology either in house or you license it from a vendor or the manufacturer itself.
If you cant beat them, join them. Why is that so difficult to understand?
No matter what you do, in the end what matters is what you offer to the customer and what the customer thinks you offer to them. Even if you have to license the tech from the competitor (like in the case of Nissan licensing Toyota's hybrid tech), the customer wont care. What they care about is that it's available in the car they bought.
The bottom line is that you have to have an answer for every challenge very quickly. The customer notices.
04-24-2005, 01:05 PM
#624
Race Director
Originally Posted by Maximized
Good move BMW! This car should be in the low 5s 0-60 with a manual. It should be a chip and exhaust away from nearly 400 hp.
The price gap that we've known for many years will rear its ugly head when this thing comes out.
04-24-2005, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by cob3683
I'm guessing that this will start around 45,000-47,000 and top out around 51,000-52,000. The M3/M4 should start around 55,000.
Sounds
Sounds
I agree with this guess. It makes sense.
04-25-2005, 01:41 AM
#627
Race Director
You can already option an E90 330 for 50K. It seems like the cost/HP and more importantly for extra performance gained is rather high once you get past a regular 325.
04-25-2005, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by biker
You can already option an E90 330 for 50K. It seems like the cost/HP and more importantly for extra performance gained is rather high once you get past a regular 325.
See, BMW does not care when a model with a smaller engine crosses over the pricing point of a model with a larger engine, when optioned out, or close to that.
04-25-2005, 10:56 PM
#629
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Originally Posted by gavriil
Yeah the 335 will probably top at around 56K.
See, BMW does not care when a model with a smaller engine crosses over the pricing point of a model with a larger engine, when optioned out, or close to that.
See, BMW does not care when a model with a smaller engine crosses over the pricing point of a model with a larger engine, when optioned out, or close to that.
$56k for a 3-series? Are they fucking daft?
I thought $45k for a E46 was asinine!
04-26-2005, 01:53 AM
#630
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Originally Posted by charliemike
Please tell me that's pesos or something
$56k for a 3-series? Are they fucking daft?
I thought $45k for a E46 was asinine!
$56k for a 3-series? Are they fucking daft?
I thought $45k for a E46 was asinine!
That's one of the problems with most cars that have a high HP engine version - you can never get that car without all the bells and whistles.
When you think about it, the E90 is just a smaller E60 with all the same features.
Look at the new IS - it's a 7/8s scale GS with prices to reflect that, but in the case of a loaded IS350 it will probably be more than a base GS.
04-26-2005, 10:12 AM
#631
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Originally Posted by biker
As I said once you get past the 30K 215HP 325, the extra HP starts to cost a lot. Actually it's not just the HP but the options cost - you can easily add 10K in options to any BMW.
That's one of the problems with most cars that have a high HP engine version - you can never get that car without all the bells and whistles.
When you think about it, the E90 is just a smaller E60 with all the same features.
Look at the new IS - it's a 7/8s scale GS with prices to reflect that, but in the case of a loaded IS350 it will probably be more than a base GS.
That's one of the problems with most cars that have a high HP engine version - you can never get that car without all the bells and whistles.
When you think about it, the E90 is just a smaller E60 with all the same features.
Look at the new IS - it's a 7/8s scale GS with prices to reflect that, but in the case of a loaded IS350 it will probably be more than a base GS.
BMW is completely off their corporate rocker. There is no way I'd spend $56k on a E90 when I was taken aback by a $45k E46 ... There is no way that extra HP justifies a $11k price increase. I don't care that it's a new car and a new engine. A $56k E90 335 is $6k more than a CTS-V and about the same as a M35x, a RL, etc ... Those are cars in a completely different class.
I think BMW is going to price themselves right out of their market.
04-26-2005, 01:04 PM
#633
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Originally Posted by charliemike
Which is why I like Acura's pricing model SOOOO much better.
BMW is completely off their corporate rocker. There is no way I'd spend $56k on a E90 when I was taken aback by a $45k E46 ... There is no way that extra HP justifies a $11k price increase. I don't care that it's a new car and a new engine. A $56k E90 335 is $6k more than a CTS-V and about the same as a M35x, a RL, etc ... Those are cars in a completely different class.
I think BMW is going to price themselves right out of their market.
BMW is completely off their corporate rocker. There is no way I'd spend $56k on a E90 when I was taken aback by a $45k E46 ... There is no way that extra HP justifies a $11k price increase. I don't care that it's a new car and a new engine. A $56k E90 335 is $6k more than a CTS-V and about the same as a M35x, a RL, etc ... Those are cars in a completely different class.
I think BMW is going to price themselves right out of their market.
04-26-2005, 02:12 PM
#634
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Originally Posted by charliemike
A $56k E90 335 is $6k more than a CTS-V .
Not remotely in the BMW category, maybe when the CTS gets an interior overhaul things will be different.
04-26-2005, 02:34 PM
#635
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sequential manual = steptronic not SMG
as w/ the tail lights bmw is known to always update them on almost every model the 2nd or 3rd year. gotta leave room for improvements.
i doubt it'll be 56k for a non M 3 series, prob right around 40k starting.
as w/ the tail lights bmw is known to always update them on almost every model the 2nd or 3rd year. gotta leave room for improvements.
i doubt it'll be 56k for a non M 3 series, prob right around 40k starting.
04-26-2005, 05:55 PM
#636
Fahrvergnügen'd
Originally Posted by AcuraGT-3
You get what you pay for
However, I think in regards to Acura v. BMW it's a case where say, "HiDs" are "worth" $250 to the average consumer of a new car and BMW thinks it can charge $1000 because it's BMW. And yes, there are people that pay it because it has a spinning propeller on it
You can extrapolate that example to include any option on a BMW and even the car itself.
04-26-2005, 08:12 PM
#637
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Had BMW not offered the 3.0 engine, I'd say the price of the 335i might have stayed lower. Not now though. It will be up there. Watch.
04-26-2005, 10:17 PM
#638
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Originally Posted by charliemike
I'm not sure what you meant by that.
However, I think in regards to Acura v. BMW it's a case where say, "HiDs" are "worth" $250 to the average consumer of a new car and BMW thinks it can charge $1000 because it's BMW. And yes, there are people that pay it because it has a spinning propeller on it
You can extrapolate that example to include any option on a BMW and even the car itself.
However, I think in regards to Acura v. BMW it's a case where say, "HiDs" are "worth" $250 to the average consumer of a new car and BMW thinks it can charge $1000 because it's BMW. And yes, there are people that pay it because it has a spinning propeller on it
You can extrapolate that example to include any option on a BMW and even the car itself.
not like it matters but that 1k price is including bi-xenon with adaptive lighting. Not just xenon alone.
Also its $800 option, not 1k. You pay for technology, if you want it that is.
Last edited by Crazy Bimmer; 04-26-2005 at 10:20 PM.
04-26-2005, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Beltfed
I like Cadillacs very much........but the interior of the CTS-V is complete garbage.
Not remotely in the BMW category, maybe when the CTS gets an interior overhaul things will be different.
Not remotely in the BMW category, maybe when the CTS gets an interior overhaul things will be different.
Funny thing is, IT DOESN'T MATTER what BMW charges, or how ugly, or if they break or if the competiton is getting better. That Roundel badge means TONS and they will sell every last 3 they can make.
Some of you really think people are that worried about "value" in the luxury class? Its about excess and pufing your chest as well, even if your BMW has 184hp (525)
So the IS 350 and turbo 335 is gonna be one sweet battle.
04-26-2005, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by AcuraGT-3
Some of you really think people are that worried about "value" in the luxury class? Its about excess and pufing your chest as well, even if your BMW has 184hp (525)