MSZ

Also from the cover: The next Altezza(no, not the new IS), V8 Legend and Legend Coupe...

gavriil

No one knows except Honda but

Here is what I am guessing:

1. Either end of 2007 or some time in 2008
2. For sure
3. Either very high revving (9500 rpm) 3.8L V6 or a small (e.g. 4.0L) V8, also high revving but not as much
4. See above
5. $105,000

gavriil

I very highly doubt it. Weight is the problem.

NSX-Tuner

I think a 3.8 V6 would be hard-pressed to be revving at 9.5k, even 8k would be might be difficult. But a 4L V8 definitely could hit the high revs.

gavriil

Notice they call for a V10 for the next NSX

heyitsme

3.5l v6, 300+hp (like the hsc) and well under a 100k using more conventional materials to achieve high levels of performance.

MSZ

Vertical V10 to be exact. I don't think its going to happen.

gavriil

True. But I have faith in Honda

gavriil

In that case they go against the Carrera 2.

The questions is, will they go against the Carrera 2 or will they go against the GT3. Both on performance and price.

allmotor_2000

For very high-revving motors.... you need a lot of cylindres to keep stroke-length short. If you go for a very big V6, you won't have a 9.5K RPM motor. It will have to be a smaller V8 to achieve this.

Else... rod-ratios are awful!

MSZ

Yet another photochop and V10 rumor:

http://response.jp/issue/2005/0707/a...ges/90100.html

PG2G

Whatever they come up, it better be able to hang with the next GTR

Ken1997TL

Take the bore/stroke from the S2000, use FRM in the cylinder walls, DOHC i-VTEC in a 4.0 V8...


Honda V8 (designation M40A1)

Type: 32 valve DOHC i-VTEC V-8
Bore and Stroke: 87 mm x 84 mm
Displacement: 3994 cc
Horsepower: 480 @ 8300 rpms
Torque: 306 @ 5500 rpms
Compression ratio: 11.0:1

goldmemberer

For reference, here's the Carrera GT motor:
5.7L DOHC V10
605 hp @ 8000 rpm
435 ft-lbs. @ 5750 rpm
98mm X 75.9mm
12.0:1

goldmemberer

That's my point, though. If we were to be practical and rational about buying cars, brands like Ferrari and Lamborghini would not exist the way they do today. If you buy a Ferrari solely for the numbers it puts down, you're a fucking moron. For pure numbers, you can mod a (relatively) cheap car to hell. Supras and Corvettes will out accelerate and outhandle any supercar for a fraction of the cost. But it won't feel the same.

And for the feel of a car, you overspend. Back when the NSX first arrived on the scene, it was competitive in every way. 15 years later, it can't compete with similarly priced vehicles in any straight line test but it remains competitive in almost every other aspect. But in the end, when you test drive a car and you fall in love with it, it doesn't really matter what it costs as long as you can afford it.

If you're spending over 35k on a car, you _will_ be subjective in your choice. At that level, it's about how good you feel driving whatever you drive; numbers come second.

gavriil

True.

gavriil

So you mean "revolutions per minutes" ?



I had to, sorry.

gavriil

Obviously I was not clear on describing my argument.

What me and others have claimed is that the NSX is outdated and slow for its price. I particularly agree with the latter and only partially on the former. The NSX is slow for its price. Ferraris are not slow for their price. For some they are not worth their price for what you get, but that's not part of this argument/discussion.

Do you understand the difference? Ferraris are not slow for the price. Only the value factor is questionable there but that's a different discussion and for many it's a moot discussion.


No you do not. "Feel" is 100% subjective. So if one overspent or not is totally up in the air to be defined ONLY be them. That's what most of you are missing. The clear distinction of subjective and objective factors surounding the decision to buy a given vehicle or not.

No doubt.

I dont know about that. I suspect there are other shortcomings the NSX has today other than straight line performance. There has got to be options one can get in other updated cars of that price segment that you cannot get in the NSX due to the fact that the factory has not retooled for many years.

No doubt.

That's not true. There is certainly very clearly defined features and benefits you get from a given car when you spend more than 35K. Things like space, extra options, more power, etc.

gavriil

Maybe this engine proves that a very high revving 3.8L V6 could be done.

Ever cylinder for the AMG engine is 776 cc large. In a 3.8L V6's case that number is 633.3 cc which is A LOT smaller. So a 3.8L V6 is not exactly a large V6 as proven by AMG. Granted V6 engines work very differently than V8 engines but in the end, high revving engines depend on low reciprocal mass.

goldmemberer

Do I understand your argument? Yes.

Here's mine -

A C6 Z06 will be as fast, if not faster than the Ferrari F430 for almost 1/3rd of the cost. And it will look, sound, and handle well. The Ford GT is a quarter of the cost of the Enzo and in the same league as the latter, as far as your "slow for the price" argument is concerned. Is the Ferrari not slow for the price, then? Aren't you paying extra for the _feel_ that the Ferrari will give you?

Basics of economics (which I know you're more than familiar with) suggest that the marginal utlity goes down as you spend more and more. The lower the volume of a product, the more ridiculous the price is likely to be for the features included. The NSX sells less units today than the Gallardo or the F430, which are substantially more expensive. I _agree_ with you. The NSX is about the worst bang for the buck you can get today. But a lot of people who spend a lot of money on cars don't really care about "bang for the buck."

Almost everyone who has purchased a new NSX in the last 8 years has done it for purely subjective reasons. Would I buy the NSX with my 90k? No. Was I tempted when I saw a lightly modded one with a nice kit and rims for about 30k? Good god yes. It is not all slow and fast, expensive and cheap. You can't put a price on soul.

This psuedo-argument ends here. This thread is already gonna be 90 pages long by the time we see the first spyshot of the NSX successor -- I think we see each others' point well enough.

heyitsme

Can't say the feel, in the sense you're saying, would be on the top of my "overspending list" or my Ferrari buying list, the feel of the suspension- yes, the sound of the engine, the design inside and out, the power, the recognition of the brand, the way the car is put together, details etc. Think the whole Ferrari has soul etc. argument is so lame and intangible just like some of these NSX arguements. If you like the car and the way it drives fine, but don't argue it like thats a standard feature for everyone.

NSX was a great car and in many ways it still is, but the market is just blowing by the NSX in terms of new technology that is available for cars running at these high end prices that makes the current NSX seem outdated in many ways. If the car wasn't outdated Honda wouldn't be able to build a successor .

And as far as being subjective in buying cars, I think people are subjective at every price range, not something reserved for expensive models. And being subjective doesn't mean numbers come second, everyone is subjective in their own way.

Bmerc89

just got this in my e-mail about 2 minutes ago!


http://world.honda.com/news/2005/c050720_a.html


< NSX successor >
We are now focused on the development of a new model to succeed the NSX for a new era. We would like to debut a new super sports car equipped with a V10 engine in 3 to 4 years. Please look forward to seeing the NSX successor.

NSX-Tuner

Very cool indeed... I wouldn't be surprise though if they release an earlier version with a V6 to prove out the rest of the car in production... maybe something a year earlier...

SeCsTaC

V-10? Fuck Yeah

TL CHROMETIDE

I wouldn't go for V-10, and I highly doubt a big V-8, maybe a medium V-8 turbo'ed. But V-10 does sound delicious.

MSZ

F1 is going to use V8 soon. I wonder why they decided to put a V10 into the next NSX.

But anyway, it will be a huge upgrade from the current V6.

goldmemberer

I'm guessing it'll be similar to the E60 M5's V10 powerplant. High revving, relatively low torque, high hp. I think they already had some of that R&D under their belt.

dom

And what about a V8 for everything else Honda?

bigman

Imagine a v10 powered AWD RL.

Dan Martin

The sad part is the 3-4 year wait.

I guess NSX2 will be available as a 2010 model.

Spazz

WTF a V-10 I can't wait . That shit is going to be a beast, BMW, MB, Lambo, F360 all better watch out, the winds are shifting again.

fsttyms1

http://vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=380991

drkangel348

V10? I'm glad Honda is finally stepping it up with the NSX! A V10 is a perfect powerplant for the successor of the NSX.

gavriil

I dont know. This sounds to me like a message to the Honda board and others, rather than an announcement to the public. He says, "we would like to...", not "we are going to...". Hopefully this is more than just a plea for a V10.

NOVAwhiteTypeS

honda has the R&D from their f1 team w/ v10's plus v10s are just more exotic than v8s from a sales & marketing point

Minch00

Sounds like their target is the Porsche Carerra GT...................lofty goal.

gavriil

I dont think that's the case. HP-wise it will probably fall between the 450 and 500 HP mark.

Three years from now, we will see more and more compeition in that segment. For example Lexus/Toyota's LFA is expected to get a 500HP V10 or V8.

iamhomin

Sounds good. Especially the fuel efficiency they are aiming for.

gavriil

Honda says it will build a V10 engine; new powerplant scheduled for NSX replacement - - YUZO YAMAGUCHI | Automotive News - - Source: Autoweek

gavriil

Obviously they wont put the V10 in their trucks. So now, they have to have a V8 and a very limited production V10 which even if it's designed on the V8's architecture, it will still cost a gazillion to produce. I dont know what to think about this.