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Old 02-10-2004, 01:06 PM
  #161  
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Originally posted by Agent_Chen
I heard rumors of a Honda CR-V size Acura SUV is in the works, but I dunno if its true.

As for increased production, it only makes the TSX and TL more available and less of a waiting time to get these cars. Then again is this a bad thing or a good thing. Only time will tell.
There is a CR-V sized SUV in the works for Acura due out in 06. The named we've heard so far is the SLX. It may use the 2.4 from the TSX, at least as an optinal engine.

But it ai'nt no pickup truck.
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Old 02-10-2004, 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by biker
So then all RLs will be AWD? That doesn't seem right either. I know Honda/Acura might want to carve itself a niche but making a flagship sedan AWD only seems like a strech. Like I said before this would be the Subaru mentality.
I also don't get the idea behind a FWD biased AWD. I mean what's the point? If you already have power to all 4 wheels why bias to FWD when everyone else has a RWD bias which in almost all cases is better for handling.
I know the Pilot/MDX are this way but I can't figure out any advantage of it. I can't see the milage being any better nor handling. So why? Maybe you can make the drivetrain real light out back cause most of the power goes up front?
Acura is pretty good with the "trickle-down effect". They debut new technology in a higher end model and then slowly incorporate it into the lower end models. I can see their flagship having AWD to start out with...then they'll add it to the TL...then to the TSX.

As far as Front biased AWD...the MDX and Pilot are front wheel drive vehicles. When the front tires start to slip, the AWD system transfers a percentage of the torque (I don't know what percent but it's under 50%) to the rear tires for traction. That's what it means to be front biased. The main reason behind this is because all but two of Honda/Acura's cars are FWD to begin with. By adapting the VTM-4 system to a FWD you save tons and tons of money. It would cost a lot more money to reconfigure the platform for RWD and then add an AWD system...it actually makes no sense, I mean, you're already getting "AWD" why spend more money just to make it rear biased.

And not "everyone else" is rear biased. Audis are front biased, I'm pretty sure Volvo is as well. As is the RX330. So Acura isn't alone in this.
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Old 02-10-2004, 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by domn
There is a CR-V sized SUV in the works for Acura due out in 06. The named we've heard so far is the SLX. It may use the 2.4 from the TSX, at least as an optinal engine.

But it ai'nt no pickup truck.
I thought it was the RDX...wasn't the SLX Acura's first attempt at at an SUV (and it wasn't even their design).
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Old 02-10-2004, 01:18 PM
  #164  
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Originally posted by AcuraFan
I thought it was the RDX...wasn't the SLX Acura's first attempt at at an SUV (and it wasn't even their design).
Your right, I always get the name confused.
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Old 02-10-2004, 01:34 PM
  #165  
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I like having an exclusive car, but having more in production certainly couldn't hurt the modding community.
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Old 02-10-2004, 01:46 PM
  #166  
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170,000 to 185,000 cars is not a lot if we break it up into the various models. Its not like Acura will flood the market with them. I think it will give us a little more room to work off the prices. As of right now Im down to 1 TL and 1 TSX in stock...that don't give me a whole lot of room to move off sticker even if I wanted to given what little I have left in stock.
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Old 02-10-2004, 03:24 PM
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imo, more tsx could mean more outside manufacturers of performance parts. i like being unique but i want to get performance mods at a reasonable price but understand that if there aren't too many tsx, the manufacturers might not design something for us
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Old 02-10-2004, 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by AcuraFan
I thought it was the RDX...wasn't the SLX Acura's first attempt at at an SUV (and it wasn't even their design).
yeah the SLX was a rebadged Isuzu Trooper i think...what a POS
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Old 02-10-2004, 06:45 PM
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Honda is in business to make money so they will sell as many as possible if it brings more profit.
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Old 02-10-2004, 07:39 PM
  #170  
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Originally posted by AcuraFan
By adapting the VTM-4 system to a FWD you save tons and tons of money. It would cost a lot more money to reconfigure the platform for RWD and then add an AWD system...it actually makes no sense, I mean, you're already getting "AWD" why spend more money just to make it rear biased.
What about a dedicated whole new platform for S2K and NSX? That's tons of money as well, but yet Honda did it and is using each platform only in one car.

I think that Honda should stop being stubborn and develop a RWD or AWD (RWD biased) platform that can be shared on many cars, just like Accord platform. If they could do it for S2K and NSX, they can certainly spend the money on this multi-car platform.

Just design it once and start collecting revenues from selling wonderful RWD/AWD Acuras.
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Old 02-10-2004, 08:51 PM
  #171  
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Originally posted by T-R
What about a dedicated whole new platform for S2K and NSX? That's tons of money as well, but yet Honda did it and is using each platform only in one car.
And don't forget the current RL rides on its own platform as well.
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Old 02-10-2004, 09:00 PM
  #172  
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Acura to put more product in pipeline

Acura to put more product in pipeline - new RL may get awd - - - By JASON STEIN | Automotive News

A senior Honda executive told Acura dealers that the brand will boost production to ease tight supplies.

Dick Colliver, executive vice president of sales for American Honda Motor Co., also said at the make meeting that an all-wheel-drive version of the Acura RL sport sedan is a "real strong possibility."

With robust sales in the second half of 2003, Acura finished up 3.2 percent for the year.

Now Acura plans a significant production boost, Colliver said. With new products on the way, Acura expects to sell 185,000 units in the United States this year, up from 170,918 units sold last year.

At the meeting, dealers asked whether Acura would get a version of the SUT pickup that Honda unveiled in Detroit. Although Honda division will get the pickup, Colliver said it's too early to consider a pickup for Acura.

He said: "Honda hasn't even sold one SUT yet."

Source: Autoweek
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Old 02-10-2004, 09:11 PM
  #173  
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Originally posted by phile
And don't forget the current RL rides on its own platform as well.
No its not on its own platform ...its riding off the old Legend platform....which was based off the OLD you know what platform.

The mistake has been learned in regards to the NSX platform...so the new NSX "may" share its platform with one other car....not yet in production.
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Old 02-10-2004, 09:41 PM
  #174  
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Originally posted by justinjsw
No its not on its own platform ...its riding off the old Legend platform....which was based off the OLD you know what platform.

The mistake has been learned in regards to the NSX platform...so the new NSX "may" share its platform with one other car....not yet in production.
Man! Justin just can't stop teasing!
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Old 02-10-2004, 10:01 PM
  #175  
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Originally posted by justinjsw
No its not on its own platform ...its riding off the old Legend platform....which was based off the OLD you know what platform.
Actually, I don't. Which old platform is it based off? I often hear the RL rides on its own platform, guess I heard wrong.
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Old 02-10-2004, 10:04 PM
  #176  
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Originally posted by phile
Actually, I don't. Which old platform is it based off? I often hear the RL rides on its own platform, guess I heard wrong.
Accord maybe?
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Old 02-10-2004, 10:19 PM
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Rl shares 40% of it's parts from the old Legend. Including platform.
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Old 02-10-2004, 10:23 PM
  #178  
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Rl shares 40% of it's parts from the old Legend. Including platform.
Not sure if that was a response to phile and I, but we were referring to Justin's comments about the prior connection of the Legeng platform coming from something .... I guess it had to be a Honda product vs. Acura
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Old 02-10-2004, 10:43 PM
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well, if they boost production of the Tsx, it's alright, still won't be as common as an Accord I hope. but, i read that if the Tsx will be produced more the resale value or blue book value on the car will be higher? that makes no sense.
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Old 02-10-2004, 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by T-R
What about a dedicated whole new platform for S2K and NSX? That's tons of money as well, but yet Honda did it and is using each platform only in one car.

I think that Honda should stop being stubborn and develop a RWD or AWD (RWD biased) platform that can be shared on many cars, just like Accord platform. If they could do it for S2K and NSX, they can certainly spend the money on this multi-car platform.

Just design it once and start collecting revenues from selling wonderful RWD/AWD Acuras.
The NSX and S2000 are two very low volume cars...Honda never intended them to make a ton of money. They wanted sports cars to put in their lineup and in the markets these cars belong, they needed to be RWD. A sedan however does not need to be RWD...Audi has proven this. Honda isn't being stubborn about this...they are making economic sense. Why mess with one of the most successful platforms in the world? Honda has done very very well using the Accord platform in almost all of their sedans...they're not going to spend millions upon millions to create a new platform for a couple enthusiasts. Honda has done just as well or better with their FWD cars than any of their RWD competition so it's not like they can switch over and "start collecting revenues". If you want a RWD (or rear biased AWD) sedan, then don't buy Honda because that's not what they make. I'd rather see them make an RL on an existing (and fantastic) platform and save a bunch of money over a BMW or MB.
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Old 02-10-2004, 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by justinjsw
No its not on its own platform ...its riding off the old Legend platform....which was based off the OLD you know what platform.
If I can remember back that far, wasn't the Legend based on a stretched Accord platform?
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Old 02-11-2004, 12:15 AM
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More products on the way huh? A rebirth of the CL maybe?
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Old 02-11-2004, 06:44 AM
  #183  
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God I hate that honda sut, ugliest thing i have ever seen. Hope they do not give it to acura.
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Old 02-11-2004, 07:09 AM
  #184  
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Originally posted by AcuraFan
The NSX and S2000 are two very low volume cars...Honda never intended them to make a ton of money. They wanted sports cars to put in their lineup and in the markets these cars belong, they needed to be RWD. A sedan however does not need to be RWD...Audi has proven this. Honda isn't being stubborn about this...they are making economic sense. Why mess with one of the most successful platforms in the world? Honda has done very very well using the Accord platform in almost all of their sedans...they're not going to spend millions upon millions to create a new platform for a couple enthusiasts. Honda has done just as well or better with their FWD cars than any of their RWD competition so it's not like they can switch over and "start collecting revenues". If you want a RWD (or rear biased AWD) sedan, then don't buy Honda because that's not what they make. I'd rather see them make an RL on an existing (and fantastic) platform and save a bunch of money over a BMW or MB.
See, that's exactly what I was talking about. Honda never intended S2K and NSX to make a ton of money and for some reason they spent tons of money to develop dedicated platforms?
And I wish Acura would build a new platform to make tons of money and you are opposing it?
To make money, you have to spend money first.

And saying: "If you want a RWD (or rear biased AWD) sedan, then don't buy Honda because that's not what they make." is a common respond to AWD or RWD suggestions.
What about continuous negative feedback about Acura's FWD Accord platforms? If Acura develops a whole new AWD (RWD biased platform), IMO sales are going to go up and Acura will be more respected. What makes you think the opposite?
In addition, this same platform can be used for RWD sport coup(s) which Acura desperately needs. Or you think that it's better to loose customers to G35c?
None of the cars in Acura lineup (except TSX) can handle more HP to FWD, so it's time to forget about Accord platform and move on because RWD or AWD (RWD biased) platform can be used for decades to come.
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Old 02-11-2004, 07:53 AM
  #185  
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A sedan however does not need to be RWD...Audi has proven this.
And just like Audi, with the current line up Acura will keep being the runner up to Lexus and Infiniti (like Audi is to BMW and MB). It seems to work for Audi and I guess it will work for Acura as well. The common perception is that Acura in all of their models is a tweener make: above the common models but not quite luxury.
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Old 02-11-2004, 07:55 AM
  #186  
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This is very good. The only car that Acura dealers around here keep in stock is the RSX. The dealerships look more like used car lots because they have more used cars than anything else.
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Old 02-11-2004, 09:27 AM
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Originally posted by T-R
See, that's exactly what I was talking about. Honda never intended S2K and NSX to make a ton of money and for some reason they spent tons of money to develop dedicated platforms?
And I wish Acura would build a new platform to make tons of money and you are opposing it?
To make money, you have to spend money first.
Right, they didn't plan on making tons of money on the NSX and S2000 because these cars are their "experimental" sports cars. They can go all out and take risks. Their bread and butter sedans, however, they have to play a little safer. The FWD TL has always been one of the top selling luxury cars in the country. You're under the impression that just because this "new platform" is RWD it will make "tons of money" proportionate to the amount of R&D spent on it...and what I'm saying is No...you're going to get no more sales out of a RWD sedan than you will out of a Front biased AWD system. I'm not opposed to Acura making tons of money, I'm opposed to Acura spending money needlessly. Acura can adapt their award winning VTM-4 to a FWD platform for a minimal cost and people will buy it. They aren't going to say "well, it's AWD...but it's not rear biased, therefore, I'll go buy a 325xi." It just doesn't happen. Look at the MDX and RX330. Some people say they aren't real SUVs because they are front biased, car-based vehicles. But low and behold, they sell extremely well. The same can be said for sedans. People don't care if it's front biased. They just want the "AWD" on the window sticker.


And saying: "If you want a RWD (or rear biased AWD) sedan, then don't buy Honda because that's not what they make." is a common respond to AWD or RWD suggestions.
What about continuous negative feedback about Acura's FWD Accord platforms? If Acura develops a whole new AWD (RWD biased platform), IMO sales are going to go up and Acura will be more respected. What makes you think the opposite?
In addition, this same platform can be used for RWD sport coup(s) which Acura desperately needs. Or you think that it's better to loose customers to G35c?
The only negative feedback I hear about Acura's FWD platform is from car reviewers that push the car far beyond what 99.9% of what luxury owners do. Most luxury drivers don't even know where the power is going (unless it's winter in Minnesota...then they know ).
As far as Acura desperately needing a RWD sport coupe? I would like one as well. But coupes don't sell well. It's a niche market. That's why there are so few out there. And I'm interested to see Nissan's "growth" chart over the next couple years on the G35c/350Z.


None of the cars in Acura lineup (except TSX) can handle more HP to FWD, so it's time to forget about Accord platform and move on because RWD or AWD (RWD biased) platform can be used for decades to come.
None of Acura's cars can handle more HP to the front wheels, this is true. It's fortunate then that Acura 1) has class leading HP in the TL already 2) A great AWD system is rumored for these cars.

But, you're right. For you as a consumer, it looks like it's time to forget about the Accord platform and move on. It sounds like Infiniti is more your style of car. I for one will continue to buy Acura products because they're based on such a great sedan platform.
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Old 02-11-2004, 10:08 AM
  #188  
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Originally posted by AcuraFan
The only negative feedback I hear about Acura's FWD platform is from car reviewers that push the car far beyond what 99.9% of what luxury owners do. Most luxury drivers don't even know where the power is going (unless it's winter in Minnesota...then they know ).
That may be the case, but these same luxury owners buy cars based on what these magazine writers say and from what their hearing.

If you don't beleive that then why are SUV's all the rage today? Do SUV owners NEED all that space and power in every day driving? No but they buy SUV's because they THINK it makes them look good and feel safe. Many a people also think that driving a RWD Sedan will give them far superior performance and a certain prestige factor.

Image has alot to do with car sales. And these days RWD or AWD seems to be the image that's selling. And if you don't believe that then ask Cadillac and Chrysler why their moving most oftheir cars to RWD?
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Old 02-11-2004, 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by justinjsw
170,000 to 185,000 cars is not a lot if we break it up into the various models. Its not like Acura will flood the market with them. I think it will give us a little more room to work off the prices. As of right now Im down to 1 TL and 1 TSX in stock...that don't give me a whole lot of room to move off sticker even if I wanted to given what little I have left in stock.
Spoken like a true car salemen! LOL

When Acura talks of boosting their overall production almost 10% and they say that the boost will mainly be in just two models (the TL and TSX) then I call that significant.
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Old 02-11-2004, 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by domn
That may be the case, but these same luxury owners buy cars based on what these magazine writers say and from what their hearing.

If you don't beleive that then why are SUV's all the rage today? Do SUV owners NEED all that space and power in every day driving? No but they buy SUV's because they THINK it makes them look good and feel safe. Many a people also think that driving a RWD Sedan will give them far superior performance and a certain prestige factor.

Image has alot to do with car sales. And these days RWD or AWD seems to be the image that's selling. And if you don't believe that then ask Cadillac and Chrysler why their moving most oftheir cars to RWD?
Well, it's true some buyers do use magazine reviews. But I'm not sure what it has to do with the SUV craze. People aren't buying SUVs because a magazine told them to. They're buying them because most Americans think bigger is better.

I think image does have a lot to do with AWD, which is why Audi does as well as it does with their overpriced, boring cars. That's one of the reasons why I support Acura moving over to AWD. It's just wasteful to move to RWD first (or instead).
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Old 02-11-2004, 10:39 AM
  #191  
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Originally posted by AcuraFan
Well, it's true some buyers do use magazine reviews. But I'm not sure what it has to do with the SUV craze. People aren't buying SUVs because a magazine told them to. They're buying them because most Americans think bigger is better.
Thats my point, image is everything.

Originally posted by AcuraFan
I think image does have a lot to do with AWD, which is why Audi does as well as it does with their overpriced, boring cars. That's one of the reasons why I support Acura moving over to AWD. It's just wasteful to move to RWD first (or instead). [/B]
I know that if I lived in a warmer climate, I'd have no problem driving a RWD vehicle, in fact I'd probly prefer it as there are no drawbacks to a RWD vehicle in warmer climates.
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Old 02-11-2004, 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by domn
I know that if I lived in a warmer climate, I'd have no problem driving a RWD vehicle, in fact I'd probly prefer it as there are no drawbacks to a RWD vehicle in warmer climates.
That's fine. I actually agree with you. The point I was trying to make is someone saying Acura would all of a sudden be reaping in mass quantity of cash just because they went with a RWD platform and that's just not the case.

Why spend all the money changing platforms when you can inexpensively modify an existing platform to create something that's considered better by most consumers anyway?
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Old 02-11-2004, 11:00 AM
  #193  
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I'm posing this as more of a question than a statement.

Infiniti before its revival also had a primaraly FWD lineup. They obviously made the decesion to go with RWD. Now did they develope that RWD platform or was it borrowed from Renault?

Either way, that decesion has obviously worked as the G35 Coupe and Sedan's are a big sucess. I'd even go so far to say that if they did develope the RWD platform on their own, they definently got a great ROI.

Could Honda not do the same? I'd say they'd do it better.
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Old 02-11-2004, 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by domn
I'm posing this as more of a question than a statement.

Infiniti before its revival also had a primaraly FWD lineup. They obviously made the decesion to go with RWD. Now did they develope that RWD platform or was it borrowed from Renault?

Either way, that decesion has obviously worked as the G35 Coupe and Sedan's are a big sucess. I'd even go so far to say that if they did develope the RWD platform on their own, they definently got a great ROI.

Could Honda not do the same? I'd say they'd do it better.
I still contend that the RWD platform was a minor element to their success at best. Some have said "well, Infiniti is suddenly successful and they went RWD." But they ignore the fact that Nissan made a lot of changes. Edgy styling, new and slightly more upscale models, very aggressive ad campeigns, maybe some corporate restructuring, and COST CUTTING, etc. For some reason, people like to pin the success down to the one thing they like and only that one thing.

Besides, who's to say they are profitable? They might be selling more but that doesn't mean they're getting a good ROI yet...just a thought.
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Old 02-11-2004, 11:44 AM
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d Honda not do the same? I'd say they'd do it better.
Yes, I'm sure Honda would do it better.

I don't know why it's so hard to believe/understand. All car companies are going AWD or RWD (or RWD with AWD option). Even freaking Taurus is going to have AWD.
Infiniti has a huge success with new RWD platform and as you can see they use this same platform on many models (i.e. the development cost is spread). And the most important thing - people love it.

What do you mean S2k is experimental platform? Does it mean that Honda wants to eventually build a RWD platform that will be shared on multiple models? I don't think S2k is experimental, Honda just wanted to create a wonderful car.

Why is spending tons of money on S2K or NSX justified and spending money on multi-car RWD platform is not justified? No one really explained that to me.

Coupes are not as hot as SUVs now, yeah, you are right. So does it mean that Honda should start spitting out SUVs and forget about enthusiasts (like Toyota....oh wait, Lexus is also going AWD-RWD biased)? Why are you pointing me to Infiniti if I love Honda?

Develop this new platform just ONCE and use it on MANY cars for MANY years to come (and this will eliminate the expanses) and people will come just like people come to Infiniti and Lexus.
Because people will finaly stop thinking of Acuras as glorified Accords and Acuras will come in either "pure sports&luxury" form or "pure safety&luxury" form.

I hope that is what Justin is hiding from us.
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Old 02-11-2004, 11:44 AM
  #196  
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True, but I still content that going RWD was not a minor element to their sucess. I think it was huge. Would the G35 have been crowned "the only true 3 series competitor" if it was FWD? Probly not.

Then again being RWD did'nt help the M45.
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Old 02-11-2004, 11:49 AM
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M45 and Q45 are old/ugly/overprised POSs. Plus, I think they are not on that new RWD platform.

Looks at Guga, I bet it's going to sell like hot cakes.

But I'm sure RL will too.
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Old 02-11-2004, 11:57 AM
  #198  
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The Q45 was the first "all new Infiniti" after Renault took control. I'm pretty sure its on a modern platform that is'nt shared with anything sold here in North America at least. They took dead aim at the Lexus LS430 with that car and missed. Some of it IMO was due to poor styling while the rest was just due to the fact the the LS was just so much better.

I have no idea what platform the M45 is on (probly same as Q45), but I'm fairly certain its also a modern platform. I'm postive its styling was its demise.
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Old 02-11-2004, 11:59 AM
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We should all go open our own car company...it looks like all our bases are covered. Domn could put up the money.

Honda knows they are at the limits of FWD V6s They know they have the FWD market covered. The only options left are AWD platforms for the everyday cars and RWD platforms for the "sporty" models. IMA is here rather we are ready or not. More models are due out for both Honda NA and Acura.

I know for a fact the new NSX platform is NOT a one model car. Lets just leave it at that.
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Old 02-11-2004, 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by justinjsw
I know for a fact the new NSX platform is NOT a one model car. Lets just leave it at that.
Let's not...
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