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Moog-Type-S 08-07-2008 12:52 PM


Originally Posted by phile
Apparently very hard. Look at the RL. And they still couldn't get it right.

:ohsnap:

Edward'TLS 08-07-2008 01:03 PM


Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
Please oh Please!!!!!!!!!! Honda do NOT try to create a DSG gearbox...outsource it! Honda's history with new gearbox(s) are HORRIBLE!!!!!


FIY The 6 speed DSG gearbox is already currently in the GTI, & GLI.

It's quite nice. :toocool:

Sorry guys. Looking back at Honda's history. It doesn't outsource anything, other than the rebadged Isuzu SUV which was done as a very desperate measure. Honda does everything themselves. It's all about face. So it's either a Honda/Acura "DSG" (<- Honda's own naming) or none. That's why we're still getting NONE.

dom 08-07-2008 01:09 PM

At this point, I don't think a DSG type tranny is as critical as a all new V6 and 6 or 7 speed auto. Not to mention some new engine technologies.

As for the DSG, I'll guess we'll have to wait for the new NSX to debut with it (if rumors are true) and then wait about 3-5 years for it to trickle down to everything else. Hooray

Edward'TLS 08-07-2008 01:12 PM

One can always hope in the MMC TL Type-S model probably 2.5 years from now.

TSX69 08-12-2008 07:36 AM

More Tier 1 Talk
 
New Sedan to take Acura to Tier 1 Status

Posted on Monday 11 August 2008

Update: Acura’s plans for its future lineup are ambitious and bold - two necessary qualities for a Japanese company seeking to enter the luxury car market and beat the Germans at their own game. To do so the carmaker has its sights set on a radical revamp of its current lineup as well as the addition of several all-new models. The final objective is to distance itself from Honda once and for all.

While the TSX, RL, and TL have been redesigned for 2009, Honda’s vice president for corporate planning in North America, Dan Bonawitz, admits that none of these cars are up to ‘tier’ 1 standards. However, in a recent interview with Automotive News, Bonawitz boasted that the situation will change in 2010 when an “all-new vehicle about the same level as the TL” arrives.

The RL’s poor sales performance has led to speculation that it will be replaced before 2012, speculation which has been fueled by Bonawitz, who revealed that Acura has a “sedan coming that will clearly put [them] in tier 1″ before 2012.

The RL’s possible replacement may become the Acura that can intimidate the Germans, with a possible 400hp (298kW) 4.5L V8 engine and a RWD layout rumored to be among its list of specs. There’s also the chance that this new sedan will be sold alongside the RL as no final decision on the future of either model has been confirmed. Pictured above is the Acura Advanced Sedan Concept from 2006’s Los Angeles Auto Show, a striking design study for a flagship sedan.

Also rumored to be in the works is a new four-seater coupe as a possible replacement for the CL.

One model that is confirmed is the replacement for the NSX supercar. Seen testing recently at the Nurburgring, the new flagship model is expected to sport a 550hp (410kW) V10 engine with 420lb-ft (570Nm) of torque.

Finally, the RDX will come in for a redesign for the 2011 model year and could spawn a hybrid variant. This will be followed that same year by the next-generation MDX, which could be offered with a new V6 turbodiesel engine. A third SUV model could be added to Acura’s lineup as revealed by a new prototype caught testing recently in California’s Death Valley.




biker 08-12-2008 08:25 AM

All talk - this sounds like the repackaging of the already available info.

Black Tire 08-12-2008 10:49 AM

wtf? Can't they make a decent looking car at least?

dom 08-12-2008 10:52 AM

:yawn: I'll believe it when I see it.

chill_dog 08-12-2008 10:56 AM

:fluffy:

Moog-Type-S 08-12-2008 11:24 AM


While the TSX, RL, and TL have been redesigned for 2009, Honda’s vice president for corporate planning in North America, Dan Bonawitz, admits that none of these cars are up to ‘tier’ 1 standards. However, in a recent interview with Automotive News, Bonawitz boasted that the situation will change in 2010 when an “all-new vehicle about the same level as the TL” arrives.
:what: They are smoking some good stuff at Acura :rofl:

The new TL is not tier 1...and yet they will release a new vehicle that is "about the same level as the TL"?!?!?!?! How does this get you to tier 1??????
:whyme:

krio 08-12-2008 12:12 PM


Originally Posted by dom
They can make as many new models as they want. After all, how hard is it to dress up an Accord and slap a J series and good ole 5AT in there.

No reason to be so pessimistic. Theyn are talking about RWD base for the new models..

[I]We keep hearing reports about Acura’s desire to become a Tier 1 luxury brand and now we get some insight into what the Honda brand has under its sleeve. In an attempt to move the brand upmarket, Honda will start offering Acura-only models that will compete with Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Lexus.

Following the 2009 Acura TL, Acura will get a brand new luxury sedan, rumored to be a four-door-coupe, that will compete with the likes of the Mercedes-Benz CLS. The new model will arrive just before the next-generation NSX in 2011 and will be powered by a 4.5-liter V-8 producing more than 400-hp. It is rumored to be built on a rear-wheel-drive architecture with all-wheel-drive as an option.[/I]

dom 08-12-2008 12:32 PM


Originally Posted by krio
[B]No reason to be so pessimistic.


Yup, no reason at all.



Wake me up when they release a 3400lb RWD car about the size of the 1st gen TSX with between 250-275HP and some sort of dual clutch transmission.

Moog-Type-S 08-12-2008 12:54 PM


Originally Posted by dom
Yup, no reason at all.



Wake me up when they release a 3400lb RWD car about the size of the 1st gen TSX with between 250-275HP and some sort of dual clutch transmission.

Wake you up?

I think we will need to cryo-freeze you....it's gonna be a while. :2cents:

PG2G 08-12-2008 01:09 PM


Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
:what: They are smoking some good stuff at Acura :rofl:

The new TL is not tier 1...and yet they will release a new vehicle that is "about the same level as the TL"?!?!?!?! How does this get you to tier 1??????
:whyme:

Think you're taking things too literally. They can make a car that fits in the same level/class as a TL and still have it be tier 1. Unless you're suggesting that no tier 1 manufacturers have cars that compete with the TL?

dom 08-12-2008 01:13 PM


Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S

I think we will need to cryo-freeze you....it's gonna be a while. :2cents:


I knew that was coming. :rofl:

PG2G 08-12-2008 01:15 PM

I really wish you guys would stfu and wait until 2010, which is when they said stuff would start changing. If they don't do anything then, call them out on not backing their talk up. None of their talk said we'd see things today, or even next year.

dom 08-12-2008 01:21 PM

What you're failing to realize is that people were hoping for the RWD platform on this generation of Acura, not in 2010 or 12 or whatever it is their saying today.

I've been hearing the 'Acura has to go RWD' complaint for 5 years now. This isn't something new.

LuvMyTSX 08-12-2008 01:22 PM


Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
Wake you up?

I think we will need to cryo-freeze you....it's gonna be a while. :2cents:

:rofl:

In all seriousness, maybe by "same level as the TL" they mean price point, not necessarily another FWD vehicle. I hope that is what they mean, anyway.

I just hope they change things around quickly, because I am itching for a new car, but I don't see much out there that really strikes my fancy.

PG2G 08-12-2008 01:30 PM


Originally Posted by dom
What you're failing to realize is that people were hoping for the RWD platform on this generation of Acura, not in 2010 or 12 or whatever it is their saying today.

I've been hearing the 'Acura has to go RWD' complaint for 5 years now. This isn't something new.

You guys should have set better expectations then. They've been saying 2010 for at least a year.

dom 08-12-2008 01:40 PM


Originally Posted by PG2G
You guys should have set better expectations then. They've been saying 2010 for at least a year.


They've said a lot of things. Which is why we're saying wake us up when they arrive.

chill_dog 08-12-2008 01:59 PM


Originally Posted by PG2G
You guys should have set better expectations then. They've been saying 2010 for at least a year.

And people have been saying they've wanted RWD for at least five years, what's your point? People expected Acura to respond more quickly to their wants, like many other manufacturers do...that's not unreasonable, is it?

PG2G 08-12-2008 02:47 PM

The point is they have set a goal, if you are going to complain then complain when they don't meet it.

Its annoying for you guys to sit around and complain about old stuff when they have already laid their plans out on the table. Every time they announce something new (which supports their plans), you guys complain about it not happening a long time ago. I understand skepticism, but this is ridiculous.

krio 08-12-2008 03:30 PM


Originally Posted by dom
What you're failing to realize is that people were hoping for the RWD platform on this generation of Acura, not in 2010 or 12 or whatever it is their saying today.

I've been hearing the 'Acura has to go RWD' complaint for 5 years now. This isn't something new.

??? who was hoping? We already knew that the first cars in the Acura range getting the RWD will be the RL 2011 and the NSX... Nor the TSX or the TL...

dom 08-12-2008 03:35 PM


Originally Posted by krio
??? who was hoping? We already knew that the first cars in the Acura range getting the RWD will be the RL 2011 and the NSX... Nor the TSX or the TL...


:doh:

So we knew 5 years ago (when these complaints started) that they were going RWD in 2011? I don't think so.

And even when we did find out that the 09 TL and TSX would not be RWD, didn't mean we still couldn't complain about it.

Who was hoping? Do some searching around here and other Honda enthusiast boards. The RWD issue isn't a new one.

krio 08-12-2008 03:36 PM


Originally Posted by chill_dog
And people have been saying they've wanted RWD for at least five years, what's your point? People expected Acura to respond more quickly to their wants, like many other manufacturers do...that's not unreasonable, is it?


man, Audi is making FWD cars for 20 years even if people, media, press are crying that is a shame, and that it will be better a RWD platform... They have the Quattro system.
And Acura the ShAWD, a great thing.

dom 08-12-2008 03:38 PM


Originally Posted by PG2G
The point is they have set a goal, if you are going to complain then complain when they don't meet it.

Its annoying for you guys to sit around and complain about old stuff when they have already laid their plans out on the table. Every time they announce something new (which supports their plans), you guys complain about it not happening a long time ago. I understand skepticism, but this is ridiculous.


Tis the nature of auto enthusiast boards. If there was no bitching and moaning things would be pretty dull around here.

The complaints are centered around the fact that they probably should have gone RWD a long time ago. Not a unreasonable complaint IMO.

Edward'TLS 08-12-2008 08:18 PM


Originally Posted by krio
man, Audi is making FWD cars for 20 years even if people, media, press are crying that is a shame, and that it will be better a RWD platform... They have the Quattro system.
And Acura the ShAWD, a great thing.

First thing, the Audi Quattro had been around since the 1980's and was world famous in winning tons of world-class rally races. Second, Audi also has V6 engine option for small Audi's and V8/V10 engine option for big Audi's to capture a wider range of buyers, Acura don't. It has range-topping S_ and RS_ cars which have outrageous horsepowers and unbelieveable performances to boost the Audi image, Acura don't. The major thing that Audi don't have is Japanese-like reliability.

But it's a good thing now Acura has finally awakened to put big horsepower and high performance back into focus for it's future cars.

Big hp + SH-AWD = winning formula.

Costco 08-12-2008 09:22 PM


Originally Posted by PG2G
The point is they have set a goal, if you are going to complain then complain when they don't meet it.

Its annoying for you guys to sit around and complain about old stuff when they have already laid their plans out on the table. Every time they announce something new (which supports their plans), you guys complain about it not happening a long time ago. I understand skepticism, but this is ridiculous.

:rofl:

Then join another forum. How about vwvortex? They absolutely love VWs in their non-VW talk section....

Like dom said this is a car enthusiast website... not everyone is going to see eye-to-eye with each other no matter what. If you expect us all to hold hands and sing kumbaya, look somewhere else or just don't read people's posts if it bothers you.

Costco 08-12-2008 09:25 PM


Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
First thing, the Audi Quattro had been around since the 1980's and was world famous in winning tons of world-class rally races. Second, Audi also has V6 engine option for small Audi's and V8/V10 engine option for big Audi's to capture a wider range of buyers, Acura don't. It has range-topping S_ and RS_ cars which have outrageous horsepowers and unbelieveable performances to boost the Audi image, Acura don't. The major thing that Audi don't have is Japanese-like reliability.

But it's a good thing now Acura has finally awakened to put big horsepower and high performance back into focus for it's future cars.

Big hp + SH-AWD = winning formula.

Don't forget, attractive styling.... that's part of Audi's winning formula. I don't see the masses drooling over the 4G TL. What I see is "yeah, I'd take it, but only for the right price" or "I really, really like the interior and I bet it drives great"

krio 08-13-2008 05:28 AM


Originally Posted by I Go To Costco
Don't forget, attractive styling.... that's part of Audi's winning formula. I don't see the masses drooling over the 4G TL. What I see is "yeah, I'd take it, but only for the right price" or "I really, really like the interior and I bet it drives great"

and choice.
what Acura hasen't... :whyme:
it's incredible HOW many engines Audi offers in the european market for the A6:. (the 70% of the sellings are for the 2.0 TDI, 3.0 TDI, 3.2 FSI, 2.7TDI...)

2.0 TFSI (170 hp) new.
2.8 FSI (190 or 220 hp) new.
2.4 (177 hp)
3.0 TFSI (290 hp) new.
3.2 FSI (255 hp)
2.0 TDI (136 hp) new.
2.7 TDI (170 hp)
3.0 TDI (240 hp)
4.2 FSI (350 hp)
5.0 S6 (435 hp)
RS6 V10 5.0 biturbo (580 hp) new.

get what you want, they mean...

Edward'TLS 08-13-2008 03:35 PM


Originally Posted by I Go To Costco
Don't forget, attractive styling.... that's part of Audi's winning formula. I don't see the masses drooling over the 4G TL. What I see is "yeah, I'd take it, but only for the right price" or "I really, really like the interior and I bet it drives great"

Absolutely, starting with the A4 model, nothing but beautiful styling continues to come out from the Audi stable. A big thumb-up for the Audi styling team.

The most important part is that Audi has nailed a good looking signature grill for the Audi products for years to come. Now take a look at Acura's new signature grill, which will haunt Acura products also for years to come.

krio 08-13-2008 03:46 PM


Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
Absolutely, starting with the A4 model, nothing but beautiful styling continues to come out from the Audi stable. A big thumb-up for the Audi styling team.

The most important part is that Audi has nailed a good looking signature grill for the Audi products for years to come. Now take a look at Acura's new signature grill, which will haunt Acura products also for years to come.

well, about the A4 styling. I drove an A5 3.2 FSI a week ago, and it's really gorgeous. The A4... well, in shape it's a sort of a strange front, the leds are not so impressive like in the A5, and the car looks worse maybe than the old model...

Edward'TLS 08-13-2008 05:10 PM


Originally Posted by krio
well, about the A4 styling. I drove an A5 3.2 FSI a week ago, and it's really gorgeous. The A4... well, in shape it's a sort of a strange front, the leds are not so impressive like in the A5, and the car looks worse maybe than the old model...

Actually I was referring to the first gen A4 that came out in the '90. It's well-praised exterior styling was a far cry from the then retired plain-looking Audi 4000/5000/90/100 models at that period.

Costco 08-13-2008 07:51 PM

I think the TL managed to do better than pretty much any single model Audi had for the last few years. Someone posted a sales chart of models in the midsize luxury class and the TL usually finished in the top 3 or something like that. I guess this is the end of the line though.

If only they based it off another platform, gave it the same great interior that's going into the 4G, and blended the design of the 2G (best looking TL IMO) and 3G somehow to make something attractive on the outside, and offered 6MT with SH-AWD weighing in at 3700 lbs tops or maybe even less. Then they'd have a winner all around.

Belzebutt 08-13-2008 09:29 PM


Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
:what: They are smoking some good stuff at Acura :rofl:

The new TL is not tier 1...and yet they will release a new vehicle that is "about the same level as the TL"?!?!?!?! How does this get you to tier 1??????
:whyme:

To me that statement means a car about the same size as the TL. Kind of like the Lexus ES and GS. One is a rebranded Camry, the other is a true tier 1 RWD car, but you could say both are about the same "level".

VTEC Racer 10-20-2008 12:36 AM

Acura: V8 Engine Confirmed**Possible Delay?**(page 2)
 

Honda's engines have always been a bit special. Not Mazda rotary, miller-cycle or tiny V6 special, but a bit off the beaten path and resistant to market trends. For decades the Japanese automaker insisted on making engines that rotate the opposite direction than the rest of the industry (in line with its motorcycle roots), and took what seemed like an eternity to go back on its founders aversions to any more than four cylinders. Well, as anyone who's stepped into an Acura dealership knows, a V6 still doesn't cut it when you're trying to lure customers away from the likes of Lexus and BMW. And the new TL may have the company's most powerful V6 to date, but even in today's socio-economic climate, luxury consumers still want V8 muscle. Reports now indicate that Honda is ready to cough it up.

The confirmation reportedly comes straight from Honda CEO Takeo Fukui, who says that a V8 engine will be earmarked towards the company's luxury brand Acura. No official word on where the eight-cylinder engine will land, but we can expect it to find its way into the engine bay of the top-of-the-line RL and probably an SUV, as well. Fukui reportedly promises his V8 will be highly efficient, but while we won't expect it to rotate in the opposite direction, it promises to plug the gap between the company's existing V6s and the V10 in the highly anticipated successor to the NSX.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/19/a...-magic-8-ball/


TOKYO — Honda Motor Co. CEO Takeo Fukui says he's fine with direct loans from the U.S. government to the Detroit 3. Meanwhile, he will fortify the Acura brand with a new V-8.

"I think it's only natural that the U.S. government tries to provide some support to U.S. manufacturers," Fukui said last week in an interview, referring to $25 billion in government-backed loans for U.S. automakers.

Foreign automakers building cars in the United States also are eligible for the loans. But Fukui said Honda has no intention of seeking any: "At this point in time, no."

Fukui supports the loans partly because he fears a backlash against Japanese automakers if an American rival goes under. But the loans also will help Honda suppliers, he said. "It's not just that the help is only being provided to American manufacturers. If I consider all the parts and components manufacturers, that would not be only U.S. companies," Fukui said.

Separately, he confirmed plans for Honda to launch its first V-8 engine in an Acura. Fukui said Acura, with U.S. sales down 15.3 percent through September, needs something extra under the hood, especially in its flagship RL sedan. "I don't think that the Acura RL 3.7-liter is sufficient. We can't compete with other premium brands."

The upcoming engine will "be completely different from conventional, past-generation ones and have excellent fuel efficiency," he said.

LOS ANGELES — Acura dealers say they have been told that Acura will offer a V-8 engine option within 18 months.

"It's confirmed," says Dave Conant, principal owner of the multibrand Conant Auto Retail Group in Cerritos, Calif., which includes one Acura dealership.

Dealers say an eight-cylinder is a must for Acura to compete against luxury brands such as Mercedes-Benz and BMW.

"To elevate the brand, they've got to have" a flagship sedan with an eight-cylinder engine, says Mark McKellop, general manager of Acura of Mission Viejo in suburban Los Angeles. The store is part of the Conant group.

Honda has long talked about making Acura a top-tier luxury brand. At a dealers' meeting in April, Acura "put the stake in the ground" and made it official, says Jeff Conrad, vice president of the Acura division at American Honda Motor Co.

But Conrad would not confirm that a V-8 is coming. Instead, he said Acura looks "pretty smart" for not having big engines in times of high fuel prices.

A new, large luxury sedan, due out in 2011 or 2012, may be fitted with a V-8. But Acura's 18-month pledge to its retailers at the April meeting suggests the engine may be available sooner.


"Dealers have been led to believe the next RL would have a V-8," says John Hawkins, president of Great Metro Autogroup in suburban Los Angeles. Great Metro includes one Acura dealership.

A redesigned RL is due in 2010, dealers say. A reskinned RL went on sale this summer with a 300-hp, 3.7-liter, V-6, the most powerful engine ever for an Acura sedan.

JS + XES 10-20-2008 12:45 AM


A reskinned RL went on sale this summer with a 300-hp, 3.7-liter, V-6, the most powerful engine ever for an Acura sedan.
They should really stop saying that its the most powerful engine ever for an Acura sedan.. It's pretty embarrassing, imo.

Costco 10-20-2008 01:04 AM

About damn time! I guess its too much to ask for a high performance variant this early, or for the V8 to trickle down into the Honda lineup. Finally they'll have a motor powerful enough to compliment the heavier SH-AWD equipped cars.


Originally Posted by JS + TL (Post 10104490)
They should really stop saying that its the most powerful engine ever for an Acura sedan.. It's pretty embarrassing, imo.

Its true. :shrug: I think it will help more than harm the car's marketing.

VTEC Racer 10-20-2008 01:17 AM


Originally Posted by I Go To Costco (Post 10104521)
About damn time! I guess its too much to ask for a high performance variant this early, or for the V8 to trickle down into the Honda lineup. Finally they'll have a motor powerful enough to compliment the heavier SH-AWD equipped cars.

Considering this will be a brand-new engine from Honda, it will probably be one of the most technologically advanced V8's in the world. The comment that this V8 is meant to bridge the gap between V6 and V10 is a good indication that this engine will be in the 400hp range. With all Acura V6's being in the 300hp range now and the upcoming V10 in the 500+ hp range, 400+ hp only makes sense. Most of the competition V8's are still under 400hp. If this engine debuts with 400hp+, it will still at least be on par with the competition even if they do upgrade their engines in the next two years. This is something that Acura has been putting off for over 20 years. No way they will be taking any shortcuts now that they are finally devoted to it.

AZuser 10-20-2008 03:06 AM

:woot:


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