Originally Posted by chill_dog

Wasn't this supposed to be occuring with the new TSX, TL, and overhauled RL?

Originally Posted by Edward'TLS

First shot - the TSX. It is identical to the European Accord sans the "Acura signature" grill. It will take 5 years for the next brand new (full-model-change) TSX to come out. Now talk about Acura-only vehicles. We won't be able to see the full effect for a long, long time.

Originally Posted by Fibonacci

Surely, I'm not defending Honda's choices and I agree with pretty much all the criticism stated above, but we need to put everything in context.

Car enthusiasts are in the minority. Based on Honda's sales trends, they probably feel like they are making the correct choices in their line-up.

Originally Posted by Edward'TLS

You missed the point.

Originally Posted by gavriil off his Adderall

Btw from the Chicago Auto Show I visited last Wed:

The RL looks even worse live than on the pics and the RDX at this point has nothing in common exterior-design-wise with anything ales in the brand. It looks like a one-off. Like the design team was not part of Acura when they designed it. Proof of they have no strategy and no teamwork whatsoever design-wise. They dont know what they want to do with this brand.

They would not let us sit in the RL. Huge mistake IMO. Even Porsche opened the doors of a 911 Cabrio 4S this year which is the first time I remember Porsche let anyone sit in a 911 in any auto show ever. Btw, the quality of "my door test" on the 911 cabrio (which is ONE measure of how well the car is put together according to me), showed that the 911 is slightly better put together than a Mustang which is the worse made car on the show this year.

The RL is well made however. As expected.

Changing the subject again, overall from the show, I am seeing signs of Toyota getting tired and sloppy, Hyundai having great expectations from themselves and high ambition, GM finally on the right track, but still a lot of work to be done (the CTS' interior is a disappointment), the CX9 being the vehicle for only those that know what's happening in the industry without caring about brand name. The CX7 having nothing to do with the CX9 quality-wise, the G37 coupe showing its age already (not even out yet for God's sake) and the way it's put together is sub-par ("you get what you pay for" totally applies in this case).

However getting in an M35/45 and you think the two are not made by the same company. Porsche having no wow factor whatsoever on the exterior design at all at this point. The new Evo and STIs being a complete dissapoitment from a design, quality inside and out. And considering their price, added weight, they are completely not worth their money now.

Audi showing tons of signs of a top tier lux maker now. The 09 A4 looks top notch, the TT is a hidden gem, so is the A3, the somehow find ways to up the quality of their interiors and everything is made with top notch attention to detail. Even the mother company VW is getting better. The interior of a Passat at this point is better than anything Infiniti has to offer.

I sat in a Lexus LS for 5 minutes with the doors closed. When I got out, the ambient noise of the show felt extremely annoying for about 10 min. when I got used to it again. That thing is a vault! The L version has enough rear legroom for me to have my legs crossed at 6 feet tall while my 6.4 foot tall friend was comfortably sitting in front. Pontiac is still trying to figure out who they want to be.

The G8's interior and absolutely a complete dissapointment. This thing needs to be re-done yesterday! The overall vehicle's quality is sub par and Lutz needs to be fired just because he tried to twice and failed. This was the biggest dissapointment of the show for me. And they dare to say BMW was their target!

Ford as we all know is living on a different planet, but they have lots of ambition on paper. We'll see.

Honda did well with the Accords but the Civic needs an update now.

The Corolla looks like it's done by a very tired team that is over trying.

The Genesis by Hyundai is a gem but it should have been ready last year not next year, that's two years off. Only to show the Americans where they should be or what they should be surpassing rather.

Chrylser is almost on the same planet Ford is living. As many bad things I can say about Lucerne and LaCross, the outside grill and overall refresh made those cars look acceptable.

The MINI's interior was made by someone who was trying to make things as difficult as possible for the driver and passengers. On purpose. However the Clubman shows to everyone selling cars in America how space can be taken advantage of. In other words, you dont need a 5+ meter long vehicle to have 4 adults fell comfortable inside. Europeans know this and we should be receiving lessons from them. 30 years ago that is.

Jeep needs to be deleted.

Volvo has a hidden gem, it's called the C30. But they need to have more knowledgable people working there (as probably all manufacturers do), I asked the British born and raised lady if this car has the same engine as in the Focus ST in Europe, she said no, we have completely different engines than Ford Europe. Sure and I was born on Mars.

Mercedes is...well Mercedes. The S Class is another vault. THe E needs to be redon and CLK needs to be redone, like 3 years ago. I know the new one is coming but it's about half a generation too late.

The M3 sedan looks too tame. The M3 coupe already looks dated. Yeap. The X6 looks odd. It looks like someone tried to make the second half of the car as weird looking as possible. On purpose. Too big of a vehicle and the 4.4L V8 sounds too large when you consider they added two turbos to it. I am sure they could have gotten by with 3.7 liters and made better gas consumption out of it. I now read that they are preparing another odd looking vehicle based on the next gen. 5er, called the PAS. Where would that fit and why is it needed?

The Traverse looks great from the outside. Chevy's interiors gotten acceptable now. Even the HHR SS feels good from the inside. Extremely comfortable seats in that thing.

The XF looks good from the outside, they would not let us sit inside but they had the windows open. This vehicle looks promising. I hear 10000 people have put money down in the USA. Let's see what happens. The XK8 is too long of a car for two people. Even for capitalists.

The LFA needs to stop been showed at auto shows. Enough already with 36 years of showing something different every year as a concept. Like you guys are preparing the car of the century! Like people are waiting in line to see the LFA from Lexus, like it's a game changer. Lexus shows to be cocky with this vehicle and it's not like them at all.

The GT-R looks like a substantial vehicle live and the design is great.

The F150 is OK but the design is poorly done I believe.

Getting into the current Eclipse reminds us why Mitsu came close to extinction in the USA. From sitting in the new Lancer, it looks like they have not learned their lesson. They are just trying hard enough, just to exist. That's what they tell me.

Hidden gems are the Vibe and Matrix, but even more with the case of the Vibe! It looks very substantial for its price and it's a good example of what we need more of. See below.

Also the Scions look and feel great. the xB is a very serious vehicle at this point. Sit in that thing and you feel there is enough room for a soccer team in there. The quality is there and now they have a nice engine to go with the light body. This is what we need more of. Smart, innovative design. More like Europe in principle, but better, cos we can afford better over here.

The Routan is a question mark. Outside it looks good and nothing like a Chrysler. Even inside. But when you know it's a Chrysler undreneath and engine-wise, you wonder. Of course Chrysler is more reliable than VW so...it's all a matter of how one likes the hardware in the end. And Chrysler, if there is one thing they know, it's minivans. So it may have been a good idea from VW to do this, however it's a huge risk. PLus they show how desperate they are for American market share. Finally they bit the bullet and decided on a plant here. It should have been done 6 years ago. Like in the case of super-business-smart BMW.

The Challenger looks like something completely NOT special. Total waste of developers' time. This thing will only sell well in the first 9 to 18 months. After that it's over.

The Murano looks like they tried too hard from the outside, but it's a great vehicle overall. Well made inside and out.

Overall what these manufacturers need to understand is that we need smaller vehicles from the outside that are lighter so they need less power to move and hence consume less gas, but vehicles that take advantage of every square interior inch to add as much interior soom as possible. And of course we need tech that will consume less gas or something cheaper than gas. Whatever that is.

Shww, can I be more off topic?...

Originally Posted by gavriil

Overall what these manufacturers need to understand is that we need smaller vehicles from the outside that are lighter so they need less power to move and hence consume less gas, but vehicles that take advantage of every square interior inch to add as much interior soom as possible. And of course we need tech that will consume less gas or something cheaper than gas. Whatever that is.

Originally Posted by halfaznguy87

Acura needs to hire Bob Lutz.. He brought Cadillac (GM for a matter of fact) back on it's feat and he can do the same for Acura...

Originally Posted by gavriil

the G37 coupe showing its age already (not even out yet for God's sake) and the way it's put together is sub-par ("you get what you pay for" totally applies in this case).

Originally Posted by Sly Raskal

As for gaining newer customers, you're gonna be playing catch up when at one point you were one of the leaders. :sad:

Originally Posted by CGTSX2004

:werd: :werd: and :werd:

I could not agree more that the trend towards ever larger vehicles is the wrong direction.

Originally Posted by Mansa24

Maybe I'm "ole skool", but I like bigger cars (e-class size). Plus, I'm 6'2. I can't see myself in anything smaller than my TL.

Originally Posted by TSX69

The first of these new models include the recently revealed RL and TSX sedans, reports Automotive News. These will be followed soon after by a new TL model and eventually a new NSX supercar.

Originally Posted by Mansa24

Maybe I'm "ole skool", but I like bigger cars (e-class size). Plus, I'm 6'2. I can't see myself in anything smaller than my TL.

Originally Posted by mikeschicagoRL

1.No coupe.
2.No convertible.
3.No real flagship sedan.
4.No real sports model.
5.No engine options AT ALL.

A long way to go to really advance.

Originally Posted by gavriil

Btw from the Chicago Auto Show I visited last Wed. The RL looks even worse live than on the pics and the RDX at this point has nothing in common exterior-design-wise with anything ales in the brand. It looks like a one-off. Like the design team was not part of Acura when they designed it. Proof of they have no strategy and no teamwork whatsoever design-wise. They dont know what they want to do with this brand.

They would not let us sit in the RL. Huge mistake IMO. Even Porsche opened the doors of a 911 Cabrio 4S this year which is the first time I remember Porsche let anyone sit in a 911 in any auto show ever. Btw, the quality of "my door test" on the 911 cabrio (which is ONE measure of how well the car is put together according to me), showed that the 911 is slightly better put together than a Mustang which is the worse made car on the show this year.

The RL is well made however. As expected.

Changing the subject again, overall from the show, I am seeing signs of Toyota getting tired and sloppy, Hyundai having great expectations from themselves and high ambition, GM finally on the right track, but still a lot of work to be done (the CTS' interior is a disappointment), the CX9 being the vehicle for only those that know what's happening in the industry without caring about brand name. The CX7 having nothing to do with the CX9 quality-wise, the G37 coupe showing its age already (not even out yet for God's sake) and the way it's put together is sub-par ("you get what you pay for" totally applies in this case). However gettin in an M35/45 and you think the two are not made by the same company. Porsche having no wow factor whatsoever on the exterior design at all at this point. The new Evo and STIs being a complete dissapoitment from a design, quality inside and out. And considering their price, added weight, they are completely not worth their money now. Audi showing tons of signs of a top tier lux maker now. The 09 A4 looks top notch, the TT is a hidden gem, so is the A3, the somehow find ways to up the quality of their interiors and everything is made with top notch attention to detail. Even the mother company VW is getting better. The interior of a Passat at this point is better than anything Infiniti has to offer. I sat in a Lexus LS for 5 minutes with the doors closed. When I got out, the ambient noise of the show felt extremely annoying for about 10 min. when I got used to it again. That thing is a vault! The L version has enough rear legroom for me to have my legs crossed at 6 feet tall while my 6.4 foot tall friend was comfortably sitting in front. Pontiac is still trying to figure out who they want to be. The G8's interior and absolutely a complete dissapointment. This thing needs to be re-done yesterday! The overall vehicle's quality is sub par and Lutz needs to be fired just because he tried to twice and failed. This was the biggest dissapointment of the show for me. And they dare to say BMW was their target! Ford as we all know is living on a different planet, but they have lots of ambition on paper. We'll see. Honda did well with the Accords but the Civic needs an update now. The Corolla looks like it's done by a very tired team that is over trying. The Genesis by Hyundai is a gem but it should have been ready last year not next year, that's two years off. Only to show the Americans where they should be or what they should be surpassing rather. Chrylser is almost on the same planet Ford is living. As many bad things I can say about Lucerne and LaCross, the outside grill and overall refresh made those cars look acceptable. The MINI's interior was made by someone who was trying to make things as difficult as possible for the driver and passengers. On purpose. However the Clubman shows to everyone selling cars in America how space can be taken advantage of. In other words, you dont need a 5+ meter long vehicle to have 4 adults fell comfortable inside. Europeans know this and we should be receiving lessons from them. 30 years ago that is. Jeep needs to be deleted. Volvo has a hidden gem, it's called the C30. But they need to have more knowledgable people working there (as probably all manufacturers do), I asked the British born and raised lady if this car has the same engine as in the Focus ST in Europe, she said no, we have completely different engines than Ford Europe. Sure and I was born on Mars. Mercedes is...well Mercedes. The S Class is another vault. THe E needs to be redon and CLK needs to be redone, like 3 years ago. I know the new one is coming but it's about half a generation too late. The M3 sedan looks too tame. The M3 coupe already looks dated. Yeap. The X6 looks odd. It looks like someone tried to make the second half of the car as weird looking as possible. On purpose. Too big of a vehicle and the 4.4L V8 sounds too large when you consider they added two turbos to it. I am sure they could have gotten by with 3.7 liters and made better gas consumption out of it. I now read that they are preparing another odd looking vehicle based on the next gen. 5er, called the PAS. Where would that fit and why is it needed? The Traverse looks great from the outside. Chevy's interiors gotten acceptable now. Even the HHR SS feels good from the inside. Extremely comfortable seats in that thing. The XF looks good from the outside, they would not let us sit inside but they had the windows open. This vehicle looks promising. I hear 10000 people have put money down in the USA. Let's see what happens. The XK8 is too long of a car for two people. Even for capitalists. The LFA needs to stop been showed at auto shows. Enough already with 36 years of showing something different every year as a concept. Like you guys are preparing the car of the century! Like people are waiting in line to see the LFA from Lexus, like it's a game changer. Lexus shows to be cocky with this vehicle and it's not like them at all. The GT-R looks like a substantial vehicle live and the design is great. The F150 is OK but the design is poorly done I believe. Getting into the current Eclipse reminds us why Mitsu came close to extinction in the USA. From sitting in the new Lancer, it looks like they have not learned their lesson. They are just trying hard enough, just to exist. That's what they tell me. Hidden gems are the Vibe and Matrix, but even more with the case of the Vibe! It looks very substantial for its price and it's a good example of what we need more of. See below. Also the Scions look and feel great. the xB is a very serious vehicle at this point. Sit in that thing and you feel there is enough room for a soccer team in there. The quality is there and now they have a nice engine to go with the light body. This is what we need more of. Smart, innovative design. More like Europe in principle, but better, cos we can afford better over here. The Routan is a question mark. Outside it looks good and nothing like a Chrysler. Even inside. But when you know it's a Chrysler undreneath and engine-wise, you wonder. Of course Chrysler is more reliable than VW so...it's all a matter of how one likes the hardware in the end. And Chrysler, if there is one thing they know, it's minivans. So it may have been a good idea from VW to do this, however it's a huge risk. PLus they show how desperate they are for American market share. Finally they bit the bullet and decided on a plant here. It should have been done 6 years ago. Like in the case of super-business-smart BMW. The Challenger looks like something completely NOT special. Total waste of developers' time. This thing will only sell well in the first 9 to 18 months. After that it's over. The Murano looks like they tried too hard from the outside, but it's a great vehicle overall. Well made inside and out.

Overall what these manufacturers need to understand is that we need smaller vehicles from the outside that are lighter so they need less power to move and hence consume less gas, but vehicles that take advantage of every square interior inch to add as much interior soom as possible. And of course we need tech that will consume less gas or something cheaper than gas. Whatever that is.

Shww, can I be more off topic?...

Originally Posted by Loseit

:rofl:
jeez u don't know how bad it is until you see it written out!

Originally Posted by charliemike

No offense Gav, I just broke it up to make it readable because I respect your opinion and many might skip interesting observations.

Originally Posted by charliemike

Oddly, I disagreed with many of your observations ... And agreed with many others.

I think the C30 is a miss. It's not worth the premium over a Mazdaspeed3. It's attractive outside but the interior comes off as way too austere and then there's the 215hp.

Agree on Audi on all points. Stuns me about Porsche. They make a killing on their cars. Why are they cutting corners?

Jeep and Pontiac need to go. I don't think that in my lifetime I've ever actually gone to a Chrysler/Dodge dealer to look at buying a new car.

Ford doesn't have a single car or truck I'm interested in ... in the States.

The XF is impressive in every way but it's VERY small. Apologies to Nissan but I felt like it was a four-door sports car. Which is fine but I think my expectation was that it was bigger. I didn't get to sit behind the wheel unfortunately. It was rather popular amongst the sheeple.

I think the 335i coupe is a wonderfully executed design that will age every bit as well as the E46 before it (which still looks good. As does the E36).

The GT-R does look substantial. Gigantic ... For a sports car it looks like it's about 6/5ths the size it needs to be.

Scion is irrelevant to me. Mitsubishi's Endeavor is actually a nice SUV. I've driven it a couple times as a rental. Everything else, including the Evo is of no interest to me.

I really like the CX-9 and were I looking at a SUV, I would go to Mazda first.

I agree about the CTS. I thought the design of the interior was fine ... Attractive but several choices about key spots made me question the attention to detail this car deserves. The silver looks great until you realize that it's going to be mauled in the first three months because of all the movement around the gear shifter ... The car at the DC auto show already had signs of wear around the center console.

Originally Posted by CGTSX2004

:werd: :werd: and :werd:

I could not agree more that the trend towards ever larger vehicles is the wrong direction.

Originally Posted by mrdeeno

Uh, hasn't the G37 been out for several months now?

Originally Posted by mikeschicagoRL

I just don't believe that the people running Acura over in Japan want to give the keys to Acura over to anyone in the states. It took them FOREVER to just let them design a car for the NA market (3G TL) and since then there's only been 2 more NA designed Acura's (MDX and RDX). Since the brand is making money selling rebadged Honda Accords there is no fiscal reasoning to the Honda overlords to let the brand be its own real automotive brand. It's kind of like how Ford rebadges everything with a Mercury logo and charges a higher price for it. And we all know how thats working out.

Originally Posted by mrdeeno

The CL's were designed in the states for the states. We all know how well the CL did.