05 RL vs M45 vs GS330 vs 530i vs 05 E350
05 RL vs M45 vs GS330 vs 530i vs 05 E350
04-07-2004, 09:29 PM
#2
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maybe the best rivalry right now, ive given this so much thought.
here's my opinion.
the a6 is too ugly for me, same with the e-class. they are both nice looking cars, but the 5 series blows them away. the gs is ugly as hell in all areas, and is blown out of the water by both the infiniti m and acura rl. the M and 5 series (shocking similarities because they are designed by the same person of course) look better than the RL in my opinion. The interiors of both are fresh and clean, and the RL interior is just too different for me (although the speedometer is GORGEOUS!!). but, the RL leads the class in technology, and can't be avoided. So...
looks... m45/5 series
technology... RL
sportiness...m45/RL
name...BMW
reliablity/quality...RL
Something different...RL
Power...M45
My verdict, the M is a 5 series and g35 fusion that i simply love, and the aggressive interior of the RL is just too much for me, maybe itl grow on me, but until then, I'm sorry. Infiniti has done practically nothing, but that look is beautiful...
Infiniti M/35/45
here's my opinion.
the a6 is too ugly for me, same with the e-class. they are both nice looking cars, but the 5 series blows them away. the gs is ugly as hell in all areas, and is blown out of the water by both the infiniti m and acura rl. the M and 5 series (shocking similarities because they are designed by the same person of course) look better than the RL in my opinion. The interiors of both are fresh and clean, and the RL interior is just too different for me (although the speedometer is GORGEOUS!!). but, the RL leads the class in technology, and can't be avoided. So...
looks... m45/5 series
technology... RL
sportiness...m45/RL
name...BMW
reliablity/quality...RL
Something different...RL
Power...M45
My verdict, the M is a 5 series and g35 fusion that i simply love, and the aggressive interior of the RL is just too much for me, maybe itl grow on me, but until then, I'm sorry. Infiniti has done practically nothing, but that look is beautiful...
Infiniti M/35/45
04-07-2004, 10:07 PM
#3
RL Concept-
Cons - Ho hum exterior (which is surprising considering the TSX and TL direction we thought Acura was heading in...) - I wouldn't even call it understated elegance, just plain generic; cluttered center stack; wood and aluminum does not flow as smoothly as they do in the TL's interior; changing the usual Acura location of the nav screen gets it a big minus in my book; doing away with touch screen scores another minus; weird rear air vents; rear armrest is too bulky; no mention of rear-view camera (which the Infiniti M45 concept has).
Pros - Powerful engine; sophisticated AWD system; paddle shifters; high tech gadgetry, Acura's nav system is the best in the industry.
Infiniti M45 concept -
Cons - Hideous taillights; flashy styling has short shelf life; odd bump in dashboard makes the interior seem claustrophobic; questionable build quality based on Infiniti's current track record; don't like the way seats are cut to accomodate buttons; usual Infiniti bone-headed placement of analog clock; curtain leather on door is out of style.
Pros - Very powerful engine; probably extremely fast; flashy styling; double stitched seams on leather seats; Infiniti name lights up on lower door sills when doors are opened; chrome accents on steering wheel looks classy; aluminum trim flows coherently across dash and center console.
Lexus GS concept
Cons - Continues the odd, hunchback style of the current model; taillights reminiscent of first gen GS - retro is only cool if the look was cool to begin with (which the original GS was not); interior doesn't really impress; shiftgate design is odd; even Mercedes is upping the displacement on its V6 engine, 3.3L appears underwhelming in this class.
Pros - High quality materials based on Lexus' track record; leather stitched center console (which no other car in this price range offers).
Mercedes E350
Cons - Questionable value considering the newer entries; cockpit design and layout is like every other Mercedes and it's getting stale; questionable electrical and build quality (I've seen plenty of new E-Class sedans with one taillight out).
Pros - Mercedes name; elegant exterior design; finally getting more power with a bigger standard engine; paint quality is exceptional.
BMW 530i
Cons - Mixed response to exterior styling; interior design is just awful; underpowered.
Pros - BMW name and image; handling prowess.
Here's how I rank them:
1 - MB E350
2 - Infiniti M45
3 - Acura RL
4 - BMW 530i
5 - Lexus GS
Cons - Ho hum exterior (which is surprising considering the TSX and TL direction we thought Acura was heading in...) - I wouldn't even call it understated elegance, just plain generic; cluttered center stack; wood and aluminum does not flow as smoothly as they do in the TL's interior; changing the usual Acura location of the nav screen gets it a big minus in my book; doing away with touch screen scores another minus; weird rear air vents; rear armrest is too bulky; no mention of rear-view camera (which the Infiniti M45 concept has).
Pros - Powerful engine; sophisticated AWD system; paddle shifters; high tech gadgetry, Acura's nav system is the best in the industry.
Infiniti M45 concept -
Cons - Hideous taillights; flashy styling has short shelf life; odd bump in dashboard makes the interior seem claustrophobic; questionable build quality based on Infiniti's current track record; don't like the way seats are cut to accomodate buttons; usual Infiniti bone-headed placement of analog clock; curtain leather on door is out of style.
Pros - Very powerful engine; probably extremely fast; flashy styling; double stitched seams on leather seats; Infiniti name lights up on lower door sills when doors are opened; chrome accents on steering wheel looks classy; aluminum trim flows coherently across dash and center console.
Lexus GS concept
Cons - Continues the odd, hunchback style of the current model; taillights reminiscent of first gen GS - retro is only cool if the look was cool to begin with (which the original GS was not); interior doesn't really impress; shiftgate design is odd; even Mercedes is upping the displacement on its V6 engine, 3.3L appears underwhelming in this class.
Pros - High quality materials based on Lexus' track record; leather stitched center console (which no other car in this price range offers).
Mercedes E350
Cons - Questionable value considering the newer entries; cockpit design and layout is like every other Mercedes and it's getting stale; questionable electrical and build quality (I've seen plenty of new E-Class sedans with one taillight out).
Pros - Mercedes name; elegant exterior design; finally getting more power with a bigger standard engine; paint quality is exceptional.
BMW 530i
Cons - Mixed response to exterior styling; interior design is just awful; underpowered.
Pros - BMW name and image; handling prowess.
Here's how I rank them:
1 - MB E350
2 - Infiniti M45
3 - Acura RL
4 - BMW 530i
5 - Lexus GS
04-07-2004, 11:30 PM
#5
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05 RL vs M45 vs GS330 vs 530i vs 05 E350
This is going to depend on how the buyer wants its equipped:
Value Exterior Style:
1) E350 (classic good looks)
2) RL
3) GS330
4) 530 (Bangle is too warped)
5) M35 (taillights are fugly)
Value Interior Style:
1) GS330 (assuming typical Lexus I haven't seen pic)
2) 530
3) RL
4) E350
5) M35
For those whose egos must have the V8:
1) GS430
2) E500
3) 540
4) M45
5) RL (No V8 option)
For those who want sporty handling:
1) RL (assuming SH-AWD kicks ass)
2) 530
3) GS330
4) M35
5) E350
For those who NEED the Navi:
1) RL
2) M35
3) GS330
4) 530 (I-drive sucks???)
5) E350 (Comand sucks even more)
Total Package Oriented (including value $$$)
1) RL
2) GS330
3) M35
4) 530
5) E350
Value Exterior Style:
1) E350 (classic good looks)
2) RL
3) GS330
4) 530 (Bangle is too warped)
5) M35 (taillights are fugly)
Value Interior Style:
1) GS330 (assuming typical Lexus I haven't seen pic)
2) 530
3) RL
4) E350
5) M35
For those whose egos must have the V8:
1) GS430
2) E500
3) 540
4) M45
5) RL (No V8 option)
For those who want sporty handling:
1) RL (assuming SH-AWD kicks ass)
2) 530
3) GS330
4) M35
5) E350
For those who NEED the Navi:
1) RL
2) M35
3) GS330
4) 530 (I-drive sucks???)
5) E350 (Comand sucks even more)
Total Package Oriented (including value $$$)
1) RL
2) GS330
3) M35
4) 530
5) E350
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04-08-2004, 08:19 AM
#8
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More contenders - Audi 6 & Cadilac STS
More competitors for this class are debuting at the Auto show. As these have AWD options perhaps they should be considered too?
Audi A6:
The new car grows in almost every critical dimension: Length: 193.5 in. Width: 79.2 in. Height: 57.4 in. Wheel Base: 111.9 in. Base engine reportedly 3.2L 251hp 243lb torque
STS:
Cadillac is targeting the STS up against the smaller 5-Series, but in overall size and roominess, it is closer to BMW's top-line sedan.
The 2005 Cadillac STS measures 196.3 inches, bumper-to-bumper. It's 76.2 inches wide and 57.6 inches tall. And it sits on a 116.4-inch wheelbase. The sedan ranges in weight from 3870 pounds for the V-6 RWD version to 4200 for the STS package equipped with a V-8 and AWD. The smaller STS engine is a 24-valve all-aluminum powertrain putting out 255 horsepower and 252 foot-pounds of torque. The bigger engine is a heavily re-engineered version of the trademark Cadillac Northstar V-8, in this case generating 320 horsepower. Base price will be $40,995 for the V-6; $47,495 for the V-8.
Audi A6:
The new car grows in almost every critical dimension: Length: 193.5 in. Width: 79.2 in. Height: 57.4 in. Wheel Base: 111.9 in. Base engine reportedly 3.2L 251hp 243lb torque
STS:
Cadillac is targeting the STS up against the smaller 5-Series, but in overall size and roominess, it is closer to BMW's top-line sedan.
The 2005 Cadillac STS measures 196.3 inches, bumper-to-bumper. It's 76.2 inches wide and 57.6 inches tall. And it sits on a 116.4-inch wheelbase. The sedan ranges in weight from 3870 pounds for the V-6 RWD version to 4200 for the STS package equipped with a V-8 and AWD. The smaller STS engine is a 24-valve all-aluminum powertrain putting out 255 horsepower and 252 foot-pounds of torque. The bigger engine is a heavily re-engineered version of the trademark Cadillac Northstar V-8, in this case generating 320 horsepower. Base price will be $40,995 for the V-6; $47,495 for the V-8.
04-08-2004, 11:35 AM
#10
Race Director
Pricewise the STS might be in the 5 series category (or most of these cars), but everything else about the cars says full sized sedan. The CTS would be the correct choice in terms of size. I would not compare the STS to anything in this category.
As of now I think the A6 is the max limit for a mid sized car.
As of now I think the A6 is the max limit for a mid sized car.
04-08-2004, 11:54 AM
#11
Race Director
I just went to the Infiniti web site where you can "build" the new M. The M35 is listed with 270HP - I guess they didn't bother to change it much from the G35. But the problem is, it is listed with a 5 sp auto for all trims - even with the sport model - NO MANUAL - WTF?
So unless the new GS comes with a manual (which I kind of doubt) there's not much choice. If you want a mid-sized preformance sedan with MT the 530/545 is the ONLY choice. That's just sad. Just when I thought I'd at least have some choice - I get none.
Maybe Infiniti will see the light like with the G35 and offer the MT later on - but to offer a "sport" package on a "preformance" sedan and not offer manual - that's insane!!!
Biker, wishing Infiniti sees the light and offers an MT by production.
So unless the new GS comes with a manual (which I kind of doubt) there's not much choice. If you want a mid-sized preformance sedan with MT the 530/545 is the ONLY choice. That's just sad. Just when I thought I'd at least have some choice - I get none.
Maybe Infiniti will see the light like with the G35 and offer the MT later on - but to offer a "sport" package on a "preformance" sedan and not offer manual - that's insane!!!
Biker, wishing Infiniti sees the light and offers an MT by production.
04-08-2004, 11:59 AM
#12
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In a way I wish they would too - but the fact is that buyers who are looking into that specific segment just don't want manual transmissions. If they did - all of the car makers would have them as options. There just aren't that many buyers out there like you who are looking into that segment.... i with there were though
04-08-2004, 01:27 PM
#13
Race Director
So what happens to all of the folks who now have MT TSX and TLs? What are they going to move up to? Apparently nothing with an MT. I can see the logic in the full sized offerings (S class, 7 series, LS, Q, A8) but in mid sized? If everyone is suposedly aiming at the 5 series then everyone just missed if they don't offer an MT.
BTW, the build price of the "sport" M35 is $43,600 with no options. That's almost the same price as a 530 ($45K w/ no options). Like many other discussions on this board - if they're offered at the same price people will pick the badge almost everytime (despite the looks).
BTW, the build price of the "sport" M35 is $43,600 with no options. That's almost the same price as a 530 ($45K w/ no options). Like many other discussions on this board - if they're offered at the same price people will pick the badge almost everytime (despite the looks).
04-08-2004, 02:53 PM
#16
If I had to spend my own money, the RL would still top my list. Acura has served my family well for over a decade and I'm big on brand reliability.
The BMW would be at the absolute bottom of my list. The exterior is better than the 7, but still seems odd to me. The interior is absolutey horrible. I don't understand how they get away with it.
The Mercedes exterior is attractive, but quality has become a problem as of late and honestly, Mercedes interiors have never really impressed me much, particularly the center stack.
The Lexus is a interesting car. I'm not sold on the exterior anymore than the RLs, but the Lexus quality is just as good as Acura. I have yet to see detailed pics of the new GS interior, so I can't judge, but I would say the GS runs a close second to the RL.
The Infiniti presents a particular challenge. The front end is very similar to the G35, but the rear is rather unattractive. The interior is the new trend for Infiniti, but I don't like it at all. Also, Infiniti interior design is definitely not up to snuff when compared with the competitiors.
The Audi A6 has the new front end which I think is overdone. Audi interiors have always been decent. Not sure how I would rank this one. Recent quality problems would play a big factor.
The STS looks intriguing. However, my faith in American made cars is still not high enough to risk the buying of one. However, I find the STS exterior pretty appealing.
Overall, the RL is good, but I do have a few qualms. First, the 17" wheels are not sufficient. At the very least, 18" is necessary. Second, the added clutter to the center stack is a little unusual for an Acura, but from the looks, the ergonimics look to still be good. I've never had a need for navi systems, so I can't really comment on the new layout, but I find that the inclusion of voice activation along with the Bluetooth wireless phone connectivity to be appealing. The SH-AWD looks promising and really puts Acura on par with Audi. I hope Acura is listening and will make minor tweaks to the design before sending the product to the consumers.
The BMW would be at the absolute bottom of my list. The exterior is better than the 7, but still seems odd to me. The interior is absolutey horrible. I don't understand how they get away with it.
The Mercedes exterior is attractive, but quality has become a problem as of late and honestly, Mercedes interiors have never really impressed me much, particularly the center stack.
The Lexus is a interesting car. I'm not sold on the exterior anymore than the RLs, but the Lexus quality is just as good as Acura. I have yet to see detailed pics of the new GS interior, so I can't judge, but I would say the GS runs a close second to the RL.
The Infiniti presents a particular challenge. The front end is very similar to the G35, but the rear is rather unattractive. The interior is the new trend for Infiniti, but I don't like it at all. Also, Infiniti interior design is definitely not up to snuff when compared with the competitiors.
The Audi A6 has the new front end which I think is overdone. Audi interiors have always been decent. Not sure how I would rank this one. Recent quality problems would play a big factor.
The STS looks intriguing. However, my faith in American made cars is still not high enough to risk the buying of one. However, I find the STS exterior pretty appealing.
Overall, the RL is good, but I do have a few qualms. First, the 17" wheels are not sufficient. At the very least, 18" is necessary. Second, the added clutter to the center stack is a little unusual for an Acura, but from the looks, the ergonimics look to still be good. I've never had a need for navi systems, so I can't really comment on the new layout, but I find that the inclusion of voice activation along with the Bluetooth wireless phone connectivity to be appealing. The SH-AWD looks promising and really puts Acura on par with Audi. I hope Acura is listening and will make minor tweaks to the design before sending the product to the consumers.
04-17-2004, 10:47 AM
#17
I have no problem including the new A6 is this comparo, but agree that STS seems like a full size. I'd rather include the Jaguar S-type with the list (I'm not saying I like it, just that it fits the description of luxury-sport midsize car.)
I can't judge these cars fairly without driving them and some are not out yet so can only judge on appearance and company reputation for quality/reliability. My money would go to:
05RL
A6
530i
GS
E350
M45
S-type
I can't judge these cars fairly without driving them and some are not out yet so can only judge on appearance and company reputation for quality/reliability. My money would go to:
05RL
A6
530i
GS
E350
M45
S-type
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