I finally have most of my stuff together and in the process of making templates for spacers behind the woofers in the front doors. Looks like I'll need 1" total behind each one.

Now I'm trying to figure out where to put the X-overs. These are networks for JL XR650CS which are pretty good size. The only place I think will work is in the lower rear corner of the door where there is a fairly large hole in the sheet metal. To do this I'll have to remove a black plastic baffle type thing that's atttached to the door panel, and then fabricate some metal brackets to mount it to.

Anyone have any idea as to the purpose of the black baffle and if it is safe to remove(only held on with two screws)?

Also, Is it Ok to discard the plastic sheet covering the door, due to the fact that the entire panel will be covered with Cascade V-Bolck?

Am I on the right track here or is there another place to mount the X-over that I'm missing?


This is what I have together so far:

JL XR650-CS front
Polk DX-6 rear
Earthquake Tnt-900(65wRMSx4, 200wRMSx1)
two 2ch PAC loc.
Tsunami double shield cable
Cascade V-block front & rear doors
Cascade DEFLEX powerpads (front)


Thanks,
Iggy

--------------------------------------------------
2002 WDP TL-S w/nav
OEM body kit, rear spoiler, fog mod,
9006ST fogs, 3A exhaust tips.......Stereo in progress

 

Iggy...

I recently put in Focal 165Ks in the front and Focal 6.5 coaxials in the rear...Anyway, for the Focals, I just needed a 3/4" spacer in the fronts, and 1" in the back...The rear speaker openings are smaller (I think), and there is a weird shaped bump in the rear that wasn't present in the front...

Adressing the x-over question...I put my Focal x-overs on top of the black box thing that is attaches to the door panel of the front doors. I simply screwed the x-overs on top, and they fit wonderfully...They don't move around at all...Anyway, I hope this helps...Good Luck...You are doing the right thing by changing the speakers out...Everytime I look at my stock speakers, I want to laugh...LOL...

 

Iggy,
Sounds like you have a good plan... The system should sound really nice when complete!

I know exactly where you are talking about with regard to mounting the front door crossover. I don't know what the purpose for that relatively big square hole in the door frame/panel is? That is where I would plan to mount a crossover if I were adding components... but it seems like I have heard a few people mouting the crossovers INSIDE the doorframe. There isn't a lot of room inside there either. I was looking at Infinity Kappas at one point, and thought about mounting the crossover inside the door frame just BELOW the speaker. It could rest on the bottom of the door frame that way, but could be prone to moisture if any water does get into the door well. But that crossover was just a rectangular cube, about 1-1'2" square by 3 or 4 inches long. Your crossover might be too big to fit inside the door hole cutout. Also if it's on the outside of the doorframe, it's easy to play with the terminator gag. Be aware that 1 inch is like the max spacer that you can use before you have trouble with the door panel fitting back on. The snap(s) especially the one right near the speaker will keep popping out. This also means that the door panel will come into contact with the front of the speaker when it is put back on. This may or may not cause vibrations or distortions like the type that happen when you hold your finger on the speaker as it is being played. Unless there is a protective lip on the front metal frame of the speaker, (sort of like the stock speaker has)so that the suspension material doesn't protrude above the front profile of the metal mount assembly, then the suspension will hit on the door panel and could cause some unwanted sound effects. Some speakers are mean't to have a cover grill installed over them to protect them from this contact rubbing.

Acura/Bose sure didn't make it easy to accomplish any decent upgrades. Also BE AWARE that the stock subwoofer is either 1ohm or 1/2ohm impedance. I was playing with it today... And with my FLUKE meter (200ohm range) with my leads shorted together I read .3ohms. Across the subwoofer, I read .9ohms. So taking into account the lead resistance and the "zeroing" of my meter, I come up with around .6ohms DC for the resistance of the stock subwoofer!!! That's LOW IMPEDANCE! I've also done the power calculations for a 1/2ohm load. If an amp is run from 12volts and put into bridge mode and driven into a 1/2ohm load, that comes out to be 150watts RMS. 150watts is what I believe BOSE brags their stock sub woofer system to be rated at??? It all adds up. So again, instead of building an expensive sub amp with a stepped up power supply to drive more typical loads... they have apparantely only used the easily available 12volts and designed a 1/2ohm or 1ohm subwoofer speaker. They may be calling it a 1ohm subwoofer and then rating it at 150watts PEAK... that would also add up very close as well.

In any case, the stock subwoofer is either a 1ohm or 1/2ohm speaker! I don't know what the other aftermarket subwoofer impedances are, but I had assumed that they were around 4ohms just like other typical speakers??? If that's true, then you might have trouble with your new amp's fifth channel being able to drive the STOCK subwoofer. I don't know of too many amps that are stable enough to drive 1/2 or 1ohm loads. If they are only 4ohm stable, they would either be in somke mode, or protect mode while trying to drive the BLOWS subwoofer... But then again, I've been out of the car audio accessory game for several years. Perhaps somebody else here online can inform you as to whether or not aftermarket subamps can drive the STOCK subwoofer?

If I were you, I'd just want to make sure that I had that question answered, unless you are also replacing the subwoofer itself? ...Nothing's ever easy...

I don't know about the cascade material, Is that like Dynamat? If so, it would probably lower road noise further than the stock plastic does and keep moisture out, etc. But again, perhaps other people are better capable of telling you what that big hole in the door is for (other than mounting a crossover network) and whether or not it would be OK to lose the plastic. I keep trying to think what the empty space might be reserved for in another model, etc. Perhaps the window motor, or ventilation vents, or something else fits there in different models? Things like that usually have some purpose that just isn't being utilized in this case. Why else make that indentation and plastic accordian baffle????

Hope some of this helps... GOOD LUCK!
Southbound

 

Here is where Ron mounted mine

 

Sheister!!!!!!!!

This is a bigger project than I originally planned on(as usual). I'm only able to work on this thing for about 3-4 hrs/day and it took me two days to finish the right front door. Most of the time was spent fabricating speaker spacers and crossover mounts,,,,,,not to mention the Cascade which took a while to do the entire panel using a hair dryer and my fingers to work the material into the contours(ouch). The left door should take half the time now that I have a basic idea of what I need to do. Also, with any luck, the rear door speaker baskets are the same as the fronts so I can just drop the Polks in. I've been taking pics as I go along so yous guys will get to grade my work, although it probably won't be for another week or two at this rate.

Southbound:
1 inch is about the max as you said. I had to trim some of the plastic of the circular seal that fits around the stock basket. Also, I believe the sub IS 1/2 ohm so I don't plan on using the fifth channel until I replace the factory POS. We'll see, I've allready got about $650 into this little project and the wife is starting to ***** a little. I told her "If I took this thing into a local shop I would probably pay $2000 reatail", which is not too far from the truth. At least I get to monitor the work going on.


NSXNEXT:
Thanks for the pic, that is almost precisely what I endend up doing. The plexiglass is easy stuff to work with and looks nice. I hope Ron does'nt get mad at me for steeling his ideas(lord knows, with the imagination that man has, I better stick to what I know best- airplanes)


I'll keep you guys posted.

Iggy


__________________________________
2002 WDP TL-S w/nav
OEM body kit, rear spoiler, fog mod,
9006ST fogs, 3A exhaust tips.......Stereo next

 

Iggy,
Sounds like you're having TOO much fun... but I'm sure it will all be worth it in the end. You are right to explain to your wife that you are saving around a $1,000 bucks! Plus, if you are like me, and have the skills, I'm sure you'd much rather do it yourself than trust it to some stranger's shop.

So you trimmed some plastic off of the circular/tubular basket that is part of the door panel? I hadn't thought of that, but I guess that's a good idea to help prevent the speaker from rubbing up against the door panel once it is put back on with a thicker 1 inch spacer. I am getting REAL close to trying a second pair of POLK DX6s in the rear. If you open up the rear door panels, I'd much appreciate a report back as to whether or not the stock door frame hole cutout and mounting basket is indeed identical to the front doors. It seems that someone on some thread recently seemed to indicate that the rear doors had a smaller door hole cutout??? That would suck! It's too tight already. I only used ONE sheet of Dynamat Extreme underneath each of my front door speakers. I believe it helped to keep the bass a lot tighter as compared to my A-B listening test with another fellow TLS owner on this board, BFOR3. SO if you've covered the entire door, it should really be tight. I wish there was an easy way to cover the INSIDE of the door frame with some kind of sound absorbant material. Have you installed my "terminator Mod"? If not, you should really give it serious thought while you have everything torn all apart. It WILL help to give you a cleaner, smoother and more detailed sound, regardless of what speakers or what amp you have installed. If you do it all at once, you won't know which mod produced which improvement... but try it after everything is up and running, and I'll be betting that you will be soldering it across your POLKS and across the input of your crossover network. It will provide more improvement than replacing your speaker wires ever would... and probably about the same as all of your cascasde work... They are ALL additive mods, so none of them are in vain... It just keeps getting better the more you do. There is no such thing as the "perfect" system... I spent the weekend exploring its use on the stock subwoofer. I found that it cleaned up the bass response as well. It was most noticeable, by having the fader set to the rear, so that I could really concentrate on the bass notes. I didn't realize just how "raspy" the stock bass actually sounds. The "terminator" network did help to smooth out the bass notes. Again, I found I could turn things up louder before they became irritating. And, in fact, since the stock subwoofer is only 1/2 ohms, the voltage across it is only 12 volts. This let me play around with lowering the "breakpoint" of the RC network by choosing a larger value of capacitor. What I actually found out, was that NO CAPACITOR was needed at all with the stock stystem. It sounded best to just have a 100ohm resistor soldered directly across the STOCK subwoofer. Since they are getting away with such a low impedance woofer, to produce the 150watts, they are doing so with low voltage. This allows for a low wattage resistor at 100ohms. At full volume, the 100ohm resistor would only draw around .75-1.5watts. Therefore, I simply put a 100ohm/2watt resistor directly across the STOCK subwoofer fed from the STOCK subamp. If you ever add a REAL subamp and a REAL subwoofer, you would want to put a capacitor back in series with the resistor so that it doesn't burn up under real voltage levels. IN THIS CASE, use a .1uF/1KV ceramic disc cap in series with a 100ohm/1watt resistor. You could probably even use a larger value of cap to bring the active point down lower in frequency since the subwoofer doesn't receive any signals above 1Khz. It's just hard to find a much bigger ceramic cap than .1uF, and the point of the mod is to keep VERY high frequency anomalies from interfering with the lower audible frequencies anyway. The stock subwoofer terminals are just wide open under the trunk to solder across. All you have to do is crawl in the trunk and clip a couple of clip leads across the terminals for testing purposes. Then when you "tack" the permanent termination across the speaker, just be careful not to look straight up at the subwoofer... WEAR SOME GOGGLES!!! You don't want solder dripping back down into your eyes! Also don't apply TOO much solder to the terminals, or the braided flexible voicecoil wire will "WICK-UP" the solder and make it stiff. This will defeat it's flexibility to move with the speaker cone... But it's really easy to attach in this mod... No door panels or speakers to remove... Give all of these terminator mods their fair share of auditions and listening tests, you might just be amazed...

Good luck! Sounds like you are a man on a mission! I wish I still had your ambition and dexterity to tackle these kinds of projects. Southbound

 

I mounted my Xover on the interior door panel pocket.

Anyone know where i can get dx-5? I want to replace the rear speakers.

 

Jmai,
Is there a reason you want to go with the POLK DX-5 as opposed to the DX-6?

Does anyone out there really know if the rear door hole cutout and factory basket is the same size as the front? If it's the same size as the front, then DX-6s will fit just right. If it's smaller, I'd REALLY like to know, because I have a pair of DX-6s that I plan to put back there as soon as I can make the time.

As far as availability, both sizes are becoming obsolete fast. You might check the websites in the thread "POLK DX-6 availability". A couple of guys have still recently ordered them and actually received them. I believe one was through www.woofersetc.com and one from www.onlinecarstereo.com ???

How do the DX-3055 components sound? Are you driving them from the stock amp and does the adjustable crossover provide you with control of the highend that is actually handy to use?

Good Luck! Southbound

 

I just compared the front speaker baskets with rear and they are exactly the same. In fact, the door frame has more room on the bottom so there would be no need to modify the speaker terminals. truly plug and play

Iggy

 

Hey Southbound,

My 2K TL-P stock speakers are 5 1/4". At first I read your post about the dx-6 and I was excited to do the mod and that was just in luck when Fry's Electronic was having a sale of the dx3065 components for sale of $99. So I went out to buy 2 pairs for the front and the rear. But when I took out my door panel, and tried to put the speakers in w/ the plastic baffles that were there, it didn't fit the frame and it was protruding too much even after cutting the plastic rear vents of the baffles. I didn't want to cut the door speaker whole bigger and I was lazy making spacers nor did i want the speak rubbing on the door panel. So i went back to fry's to and got the dx3055, which fit w/ the plastic baffle w/o making any spacers. It fitted just right and it didn't protrude in the rear either. I had to drill for holes for the new speakers and i dynomat it too. I mounted the Xover on my interior door pocket cuz i hate things left there; it rattles. So i might was well use it for my Xover placement, drilling 2 small holes to mount it and a bigger hole for the speaker wires. So w/ this mod, i'm assuming the rear would be the same size. But i don't plan on putting components speakers in the rear cuz i don't sit in the rear as often. But the bose rear speakers so so muffled now that I laugh at it.

I'm currently using the stock amp and have the Xover setting at -3db w/ the treble at even. But i do notice there not much mid as u said, but yet there were lots of hidden highs that i've never heard from all my music before. And now i heard more bass from my subwoofer. Strange!?!?! So i'm happy. I'm planning on doing ur RC network idea soon. I'm hoping to do it this weekend - that's if i find all the parts - before I go to the E3 convention in LA next wednesday. I'm wondering will Fry's have it.

Gosh I never thought I would type so much like you Southbound. I'm in no way of trying to compete either. HEHE.

 

Thanks Iggy for the rear seat report! LOL
Since I've been in the front with the DX6s, I know exactly what you mean by the terminal clearances at the bottom of the door hole cutout. I LIKE PLUG AND PLAY! Thanks again for letting me know that I have an easy chore whenever I get around to it.

Jmai, I guess you are saying that the 2000 model year actually had cheaper and smaller speakers than our 2002/2003? That's sad... I guess that's how they are getting away with calling our new BOSE system a premium sound system.:yack:
I was going to say that Iggy has just verified that the rear door cutouts are exactly if not bigger than the fronts and the baskets are identical. Since that's been established, then the DX6s would fit just fine. Then I noticed that you have a 2k TLP... I just assummed 2k2 at first glance. So maybe you do need to stick with the DX5s??? Frys Should have the necessary parts for the termination mod. They sell NTE electronic components there. If not, look up the NTE electronics website and they can give you distributers in the area. They list their .05uF cap as 50,000pF... (same thing)

Believe me this clackitis is a CURSE! I always swear I will just clack out one paragraph... and then I get on a downhill roll...

Southbound

 

I just got a digital camera this afternoon so here's a peek:

A spacer for the fronts


Any guess what the torch and copper tubing is for?


Closer look at Cascade V-block.....PIA


A clear plastic template to indicate wire routing, holes, etc will come in handy on the drivers door

 

Done with Polk installed.


Bonus pic


I'll keep ya all posted,
Iggy

 

NICE WORK, IGGY!!!

I especially like the Becks beer bottle to help the project go smoother...

Is that TWO rings glued and screwed together to make up the front spacer? will the new speaker screw into the larger diameter portion with screws yet to be seen? Or will it mount with the four screws shown... If so, how will the two rings stay together in the final install? Are they made of MDF that you painted white? and how did you make such clean rings. Did you have a hole saw that big? It looks like too good of work for a jigsaw..

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm impressed!

Southbound

 

South,
Yes the spacer is made of two 1/2" MDF rings glued and screwed together. The screws you see are what hold them together I just countersunk them so that when the speaker rests on top they don't touch. The three holes on the bottom ring are where the mouting screws will go into the factory location. probably what confused you is that the holes for the speaker itself have'nt been drilled yet, I'll do that once everything is in place.

To make the rings I used my trusty Rotozip w/circle attatchment and,,,,,, whalla. I painted them with Kilz primer sealer just to keep the moisture out and for appearance.

I should have the drivers side done either today or tommorrow. It's going to take a while because of the amount of wires I have to works around and the crossover install.

Iggy

 

Hey Southbound,

I notice that u've just changed ur suggestion for the "terminator". Instead of using a 100 ohm/1watt resistor in series w/ a .05uF Cap/1KV, you're suggesting to use just the 100 ohm/2watt resistor across all 5 of our speakers? I am getting that rite? or was it just the subwoofer?...this is just using the stock HU n amp.

 

NO, NO, NO...

You misunderstood me. The "Terminator" mod should ALWAYS have a capacitor in series with the resistor on the door speakers (or home speakers) because they are FULL RANGE speakers. They are also 4ohm or higher speakers.

SINCE THE FOUR DOOR SPEAKERS HAVE THE FULL AUDIO FREQUENCY SPECTRUM FED TO THEM, THEY WOULD BURN UP THE 100OHM/1WATT RESISTOR IF IT WERE NOT FOR THE CAP KEEPING THE AUDIO VOLTAGE OFF OF IT, ESPECIALLY WITH HIGHER POWERED AFTERMARKET AMPS. LEAVE THE TERMINATOR AS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED FOR THE DOOR SPEAKERS! .05uF/1kv ceramic disc cap in series with a 100ohm/1watt resistor. Tie this RC network ACROSS the speaker terminals of a single speaker system, and tie it across the INPUT of the crossover network for component systems...

When I researched and designed this mod YEARS ago, subwoofers weren't really much in existence. Therefore, I had never really tried it out on a subwoofer before. I got to thinking the other day, though, and did some listening tests with heavy bass music faded to the rear and found that the terminator did indeed also help to smooth out the bass response. I also found out that the STOCK subwoofer is ONLY 1/2ohms. THEREFORE, THERE IS VERY LITTLE VOLTAGE ACROSS IT TO MAKE IT MOVE. Also it only carries frequencies from around 30hz to 300hz. So the point where the 100ohm resistor comes into play could be moved down from 32khz to like 3khz. That would mean that the cap could be increased from a .05uF to a .5uF cap. HOWEVER, Ceramic disc caps aren't made that big, and I don't trust an electrolytic to perform well up at RF frequencies where the "Terminator" does its thing.

SO TO BE SAFE, FOR THE SUBWOOFER ONLY!... I'd use the biggest value of ceramic disc cap that you can find, yet stay below a value of .5uF. IN THE STOCK AMP/STOCK SUBWOOFER CASE ONLY!!!! YOU can get away with leaving the cap out of the circuit entirely... During my listening tests with a 100ohm/1watt resistor, I never found it to even get warm. Therefore, I put in a 2watt resistor just to be safe. But once you put a REAL subamp and a higher impedance REAL subwoofer in the car, you will want to put a cap back in series with the resistor. I should have just said to use a .1uF/1kv ceramic disc cap in series with a 100ohm/1watt resistor for the SUBWOOFER applications. THAT WOULD BE SAFE FOR ALL AMPS AND ALL WOOFERS! .1uF is about the largest that ceramic disc caps are made, especially in the higher voltage range.

It's easy to try the mod out on the stock subwoofer system. Just crawl in the trunk and hang a couple of clip leads from the speaker terminal. Then clip and unclip the mod between the clip leads for listening tests. I found that it did help to smooth out some of the stock raspy bass, although not as much improvement as heard in the full range door speakers. NONETHELESS, it was so easy to solder a resistor across the subwoofer, that I had to do it for the sake of doing it. You have to listen carefully to just deep bass notes to hear the effect on the subwoofer. Fade things back to the rear and add some bass, and then listen to some music with and without the mod. I think you'll notice a slight improvment. Again it can't hurt anything to try. You will have people wondering what you are doing jumping in and out of your car and opening and closing the trunk over and over and over and over...

JUST LEAVE THE CAP IN CIRCUIT FOR THE DOOR SPEAKERS OR ON ANY AFTERMARKET SUBWOOFER SYSTEM!!!

Hope this helped to clarify things again...

Southbound

 

Got it Southbound.

 

HEY IGGY JSUT WANTED TO KNOW WHAT AMPS AND SUBS YOU ARE GONNA USE?

 

This isn't meant to be a flame... and I'm NOT speaking for Iggy...

BUT if you read the first post in this thread, he pretty much tells you what he has all together and what his plans are... I guess he could still be making up his mind about his subwoofer plans.

But, When all else fails, read the manual, or in this case, read the thread...